But what are you trying to prove with that I'm asking? I'm not asking for information about brain activity
Bentley Gomez
That our brains behave differently when we are hallucinating, and when they are normal. This is how we know our entire existence isn't a hallucination. We can simply scan our brains and that will tell us.
Tyler Ortiz
Our brains behaving differently doesn't prove that something isn't real though. Just like our brain behaving "normally" doesn't prove that something is real
Asher Kelly
How so? Our brains behaving a certain way does proves we would be hallucinating. What we hallucinate isn't real. Our brains look as certain way, and behave when we are at normal levels of brain activity. This is how we know if we are sleeping or not. You can argue that in our dream a scan can show up as a normal brain, but you would first have to prove that we are in such a state. Also, it has been proven we cannot dream inside our dreams, just like we cannot tell time in dreams, and read. We can do all these things, so therfore we are not dreaming.
David Wood
Our brains look a certain way when behaving normally. We know if we are truly awake based on our brain activity.* Wow that was a mess.
Christian Morris
Is the best modern translation of the Bible the Septuagint? Or am I getting meme'd on by oily debt dodgers yet again?
Luke Carter
>What we hallucinate isn't real
Prove it. How do you know that things that happen when our brain is functioning differently aren't real? If everybody started hallucinating non stop from now on would that become real to you? Would the way our brain used to function become "hallucination?" Prove to me that the world we perceive is real
Also, none of this has to do with Christianity and I don't know why you made this thread if this is what you wanted to talk about
Evan Hall
What's the stance of christianity on self defense and the cause of righteousness? What's a christian to do against the murder, violence and hate that other religions spread like Islam. Turn the other cheek? Shellter and feed the ungrateful illegal inmigrant that abandons his people on a time of utmost striffe and suffering?
That's honestly the only thing that keeps me from faith.
Hudson Cruz
Where's Pracedom? I'm guessing he has been using the argument that there is no proof what I am experiencing is real for some time now. He seemed very prepared, and immediately brought it up I said that there isn't any for hell. I refuted his argument, and he got all butthurt and left in rage. I explained already how we know that what we experience is real, and not some hallucination. You can't dream, inside a dream. That's not how it works. We know if we are dreaming, because our body enters a sleep paralysis, and goes through something called REM. In these dreams, we cannot tell time, and we cannot read. This is enough evidence that we are not dreaming, because I CAN sense time, and I CAN read. These are things we CANNOT do if we were dreaming. The reaon I use dreams, instead hallucination, is because effectively, hallucinations are related to dreams. You are techically asleep during a hallucination. Our brains also behave differently when we do hallucinate. We can see these things on a cat scan. He also seems to have flipped the burden of proof. He is telling atheist there isn't any evidence that suggest our reality is real, however his claims are that what we are experiencing is not. He needs to prove that what we experience is a sham, not the other way around. It's the same way with someone proving hell. Your claim is that hell is real, and that's where the damned go. I ask them to prove it. I shouldn't have to prove that hell doesn't exist, and if no one has proved it doesn't, that doesn't prove that hell exist. I can see the confusion about my senses lying to me, but the claim was that my senses are lying, and reality very well could be an illusion. Now HE has to prove that.
Owen Rodriguez
these were daily threads for a while, recently this fell away, what happened?
Brayden Watson
Oversaturation.
Jaxson Fisher
The Bible is looking pretty real now, isn't it?
Zachary Jones
source of that ass eating art pic?
Dominic Gray
You don't know what you're talking about. You're implying that the world isn't real, but it is. I pretty much explained this here Also I wanted to continue the conversation, because it wasn't done yet. That's not how the burden of proof works you autist. Pracedom's claim was that reality isn't real. Now YOU have to prove that. We know if someone is hallucinating because their brain activity is different. If everyone started hallucianting at the same time, none of it would be real; they are hallucinations. We know hallucinations aren't real in the same sense dreams aren't. Did that dream Santa Claus taking you on a ride with his sleigh happen? No, of course not. We know this because we are able to distinguish dream from reality already, without the need of a scan. We know Santa Claus doesn't exist, and it is already eliminated as a possibility; Santa Claus has never been proven, and it is impossibe for Santa Claus to do what he does. Even if one didn't know that, we would already know we were dreaming or not. You wake up from a dream knowing you were dreaming user, don't you fucking deny that.
Jonathan Hernandez
You sure do claim a lot of things that can't be proven. Why does anybody have to prove anything to you? Why can you just say things and say that they have to be accepted as fact? Why can't you prove anything you've said?
Camden Robinson
Screenshot from another thread yesterday, don't have source
Aiden Turner
This is taking what the Bible says out of context, and please, ISIL is no where near 200 million strong.
Caleb Ward
Help those who you deem to actually be in need. And knowing what we know about muslims (that bluepilled Christians don't) it seems to be obvious that helping Muhammad and Ahmed into our countries does far far more harm than good.
Adrian Davis
ah, but have you not considered their numbers in Europe and also around the world for that matter. Still not 200 million, but it's still a number, and still concerning none the less
Jack Sanchez
But how do you know for sure that the world is real? How do you know what happens in dreams isn't real. Scientists have acknowledged the possibility of alternate dimensions. Are you saying these can't exist? You're sure they don't exist? How are you sure?
Zachary Kelly
SAGE AND HIDDEN.
Henry Anderson
Ah, but I have, if you would read the fucking wall of text I posted. Because the burden of proof commands it. Pracedom wants to claim that reality is a sham, well, it's his duty to prove it. I have already proved the inverse, that reality, IS, in fact something we are actually experiencing. You don't just tell me something is wrong, you have to contradict my argument to prove I am wrong.
The sheer delusion and non-critical thinking ability of some of you retards will never cease to astound. It's hard to imagine there are actually people who just assert things baselessly and seem quite literally intellectually incapable of understanding why it is that doesn't fly.
>reality, IS, in fact something we are actually experiencing l o l
Read the archives.
Aaron Williams
BUMPED AND REVEALED
Lincoln Long
You're right that we're perceiving something. You still haven't proven that we're experiencing is any more real then what we experience in dreams. You haven't proven anything actually. You've just referenced muh burden of proof a bunch of times. That doesn't prove anything lol, I don't get what you don't understand lol. You don't have absolute knowledge of the universe and reality
>You don't just tell me something is wrong I get to tell you whatever I want
>you have to contradict my argument to prove I am wrong I don't have to, but I have explained my reasoning as much as you have because you're using your subjective opinions with the information you have at hand to state things just like I am
Grayson Robinson
anyone have the source
Thomas King
Alternate dimensions have nothing to do with a false reality. I already proved my side, how am I sure? I proved my side. We have to exist. Our bodies couldn't form the basic functions if we didn't exist physically. The only reason we don't fall through the floor and soil of the earth, is because the atoms that make us are magnetic and repel eachother from being too close. This in turn with density which is determined by the chemical compounds. This suggest we exist physically. Life isn't a video game you autist, I suggest you take off your tinfoil hat and claiming things without any evidence to support your argument.
Jayden Hill
You pretty much just lost ALL of your credibility as an individual that appreciates inquiry and philosophy. I'd remove the tripcode and name you have in shame. You see, you STILL have yet to contradict my argument. Do you not know how to argue? You don't just say something is incorrect, or someone is mistaken without explaining why that is. You have yet to do this.
Christopher Sullivan
>We have to exist. Our bodies couldn't form the basic functions if we didn't exist physically HOLY SHIT BEGGING THE QUESTION. You don't prove something exists by *ASSUMING THAT WHICH IS UNDER QUESTION AS PART OF YOUR ARGUMENT FOR IT*.
You still haven't proved anything though. Have fun calling me an autist and lying about proving things lol
And yeah, alternate or parallel dimensions actually are relevant to the discussion because you can't prove that we experience in dreams isn't another dimension of reality
Bentley Campbell
YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT. YOU ASSUME YOUR CONCLUSION AS PART OF YOUR ARGUMENT FOR THE CONCLUSION. HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT. LAMO!
Blake Gomez
Burden of Proof. Your claim that reality is a sham is yet to be proven.
Ryan Turner
Why do you think it's your place to dictate how people behave or that you have an objectively true opinion of the nature of reality?
Why are you so mad?
Jaxson Harris
You haven't even proved your argument? What is it you are so excited about?
Ryan Sanchez
All of your claims haven't been proven either...
Levi Walker
Reality is subjective to the observer, that is why it is a sham. It isn't truly quantitative. All numbers are subject to the interpretation of the observer.
Brody Perry
I'm not mad, just overwhellemed. You are ignoring what I'm saying. Both of you. You have not contradicted my counter-arguement, you all have no proven your argument. It really is befuddling.
Anthony Bell
You know what is also yet to be proven? Your *baseless assertion that your sensory experience corresponds to real objects*. Guess who is far more fucked? Hint - it's not the guy who doesn't give a shit either way!
Learn fucking logic you autistic retard. I can't believe people as stupid as you actually exist. It makes my command to evangelize seem like a complete fool's errand to try and reason with drooling shit-gene'd monkeys.
Caleb Rivera
BUT THEY HAVE DO YOU EVEN READ WHAT I AM POSTING?!?!?!
Ethan Nguyen
You subtly twist everything that's said to try and benefit your argument and reject it if it doesn't fit into the parameters you deem acceptable so there really is no point in talking to you lmao
Brayden Hughes
Yeah totally! >We have to exist. Our bodies couldn't form the basic functions if we didn't exist physically is totally a proof! Yeah! You nailed it. NAILED IT.
Gavin Diaz
But it isn't subjective. It is objective. That doesn't prove that what we experience isn't real. We cannot all be in the same dream, when did we fall asleep? Will we ever wake up? Who's dream are we in? Is the person dreaming in someone elses dream? These are all just assumptions without any actual evidence. You guys are trying to justify having no evidence for god
Camden Turner
Passion of the Fag/Kike/False god
Zachary Rogers
Why don't you tell us about your objective experiences?
Colton James
Yes, I've read everything. You haven't proven anything to me. You swallowed all kinds of philosophical dogma and tried to pass them off as objective facts without realizing there's way more you would need to know for a fact before you pass off your biased argument as fact
Thomas Carter
We cannot read if we are asleep. We cannot tell time if we are asleep. This is enough to distinguish reality from dreams
Robert Rivera
What are you typing about?
I just said data is subjective to the observer. Which it is to any critically thinking sentient. Because your perception of reality is based off of data subject to your perception. Your reality is subjective, things can exist beyond what you can know or even perceive.
A slug can't percieve what we can, yet things exist beyond what it can know. The difference is some people are willing to accept that, and others are content to be slugs.
Brody Price
Just because I can't prove something doesn't mean it is a sound statement. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT OUR DREAMS ARE IN AN ALTERNATE REALITY LEARN THE BRUDEN OF PROOOOF
Isaiah Peterson
>We cannot read if we are asleep. We cannot tell time if we are asleep I wonder why it's possible to read and keep track of time via timekeeping imagery in dreams then? The sheer stupidity you exhibit is far too surreal. How did your parents ever manage to breed someone even dumber than they are?
Henry Ross
>This is enough
Kek. Okay
Explain to me how not being able to read means something isn't real. If somebody could read in their dreams would this make it real?
Again, how do you know dreams aren't another aspect or dimension of reality?
Jackson Bell
Fucking love this guy
Liam Clark
Is not what I decide, it's what philosophy dictates. Thr fact that you cannot even follow it is sad. You don't tell people they're wrong without a proper explanation why. All you have been doing is having what I tell you flow through one ear and out the other
Eli Rodriguez
>learn logic >ignoring the burden of proof wew lad Your claim is that reality is a sham, now it's your job to prove that.
Evan Nguyen
>An argument from ignorance occurs when either a proposition is assumed to be true because it has not yet been proved false or a proposition is assumed to be false because it has not yet been proved true The only one doing either of these is you. The low-IQ random retard. Please just end it - I can't imagine how pathetic it must feel to be you.
Camden Wood
Just end it dude.
Aaron Anderson
>Just because I can't prove something doesn't mean it is a sound statement
I'm assuming you meant *isn't a sound statement. I agree that it doesn't mean it isn't a sound statement. Just like I've made sound points without necessarily proving anything
>YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT OUR DREAMS ARE IN AN ALTERNATE REALITY
Why? All I was pointing out is that claiming dreams aren't real isn't true because you can't prove that they're not. I'm not trying to prove that dreams aren't real. I'm just showing you that your logic is flawed. I don't need to do anything anyways lol
Gavin Bell
We are awake is what I'm trying to say. We are awake because we can read and tell time. It is a fact that we cannot read and tell time if we were sleeping, look it up. Your argument was that reality is much like a dream, however it isn't because of these reasons. Beyond this if something is even "real" Clarify. I don't know what you mean by something not being real, when you're talking about the sense that dreams and hallucinations aren't real things happening.
Jeremiah Butler
Thoughts on Rasputin? He was Russian orthodox and that's good...but he also sinned up a storm.
Anyone else following possible End times. The verses of the Bible are beginning to align with the modern world.
Leo Scott
But how? I'm only supporting the side that reality is real, is because you're taking the side that it isn't. You started the argument with the claim reality is a sham. Now it's your job to prove it. Not mine. Burden of proof.
Cooper Brooks
>We are awake because we can read and tell time. BEGGING. THE. QUESTION.
HOOOOOLY SHIIIIET JAYKWON. You're becoming more brown by the second with those cutting-edge propositions.
Brandon Nelson
You literally just told be the dream I had molesting you in your sleep while I cut open your throat actually happened. Wow. Are you just being ironic at this point? What happens in dreams isn't real, this is an objective fact how can you deny this?
Carter Baker
You know there are thousands upon thousands of theories of philosophy right? There are no objective philosophical laws set in stone. Youredeciding to use these parameters for your argument. Why are you ignoring, say, ontology and epistemology when these are both extremely relevant to the discussion. Cutting out things you don't like in order to try and "win" an argument isn't a very productive way to have a conversation
Logan Gomez
see I know you are busy fighting with Baitcus Maximus. But if you have to perceive data and the way you perceive is different from the way another does. Than reality is in fact subjective. It is then a sham.
Not only that, reality came from the word "real". Which was nothing more than a buzzword back in the day.
Sebastian Mitchell
That wasn't my argument at all. You continue to lie and/or twist my words either because you're careless or purposefully
Landon Brown
I have never said "reality isn't real". Not once. Not a single time. Never even implied it. I started the conversation with the following >There isn't any evidence your sensory experience corresponds to real objects
Dead stop. It's a skeptical position. You're so fucking inarticulate and are an abject failure in terms of average human reading comprehension. I really don't understand how you can even continue posting - I would think it would be horribly embarrassing. But perhaps you're autistic enough that you don't experience embarrassment like the rest of us.
Angel Allen
But it's fact? What you're telling me is that we are dreaming, and because we are in a hallucination, what we are experiencing isn't real. If this is not what you mean, then what? What else can you mean by reality not being real?
Sebastian Cook
It isn't an objective fact. No matter how many times you post this without more information being available it will never be a proven fact
David Rogers
How so? Give an example.
Cooper Morris
>What happens in dreams isn't real, this is an objective fact how can you deny this? This is what you get from scientism worshipers. This anti-intellectual illogical dribble, dripping with dogmatism and baseless assertions coupled with idolatry and hedonistic materialism.
Thomas James
rekt
Alexander Walker
>What you're telling me is that we are dreaming Yeah really? Am I really doing that? Why don't you quote me you brainless mong.
Asher Green
>G-d warned us >We did it
I'm sensing a pattern here
Christian Mitchell
I'm not denying that. But just because we can't comprehend something doesn't give an excuse to fit god in there either. Some things are out of our physical perception, like ultraviolet light, but we can still find ways to detect it.
Noah Clark
Just leave, you have literally no purpose to be here
Jacob Evans
An example of what?
Ian Cooper
he was part of some sin cult, and he ruined Russia with his shit advice on military matters.
Henry Moore
Christianity is a faggotry life. Look at philippines, we are all christians here but our life is so bad, thurd world poop.
You all should live in the philippines if you love a christian nation
Dylan Cruz
Oh okay, so our dreams are real then. What I dreamed last night actually happened in real life, and the people involved in my dreams have memories of this encounter.
Kayden Roberts
Lets get some church architecture up in here Armenia
Ryan Adams
Why's that? I never said that reality is much like a dream and pointed that out to you. Do you think insulting me will change that?
James Watson
>Christians >"our life is so bad"
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Benjamin Murphy
What are you implying from this position though?
Anthony Carter
That isn't what I said though. Not even once
Connor Morales
I don't even know where, I just have the gist of what you're trying to prove. This argument has spanned over 6 hours I don't even know who is who anymore.
Tyler Taylor
Certain general Laws of science. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Energy cannot come from nothing and cannot be destroyed
Yet this Universe exists. But all things according to science and logic have a start. The start of the Universe does not come from nowhere though because it can't.
This is where the outside force of God comes into play. Existence as we can interpret it is an infinite myriad of "accidents" that led to what we have. All things stemming from nothing. Because logically speaking, existence could not have started from ALL energy and turned to less because it cannot be destroyed. It can not have started from NO energy because then there would be none. So a force higher than we can understand must have caused existence. That is God.
John Perry
Of you accusing me for what I was ostensibly doing
Aaron Brooks
But it's funny that you mention that because I've known people who have claimed to have had the same dream in the same not and remember the same things. Obviously this doesn't prove anything, I just thought it was interesting and relevant to the conversation
Alexander Johnson
Nothing except the sheer brute possibility that your sensory experience might not correspond to real objects - you could be a brain in a vat or else tormented by a Cartesian demon for all you know.
Christians believe in God on faith. You believe your sensory experience corresponds to real objects and isn't illusory *on faith*. It's why nobody with any understanding of basic epistemology has ever or will ever take gaytheist dogmatism seriously.
William Sullivan
I don't even understand your purpose on this argument. You are going to tell me what we dreamed actually happened in real life, I can't even take you seriously anymore.
Nathaniel Rodriguez
>inb4 >With you guys God is always beyond what we can percieve
Don't lump me in with autists from hundreds of years ago. God is the divine creator. Not redecorated Zeus.
