>The family of the man who invented the AR-15 assault rifle says he never intended for the weapon to be used by civilians.
>“Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,” the Stoner family told NBC News in a statement late Wednesday.
>Stoner, who designed the AR-15 and the M-16 in the 1950s, died of cancer in April 1997. He was 74.“He died long before any mass shootings occurred,” the family said. “But we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events.”According to his New York Times obituary, Stoner, a Marine veteran, had the idea “to develop a rifle that would fire repeatedly with a single pull of the trigger” because because military studies showed that soldiers “under the pressure of combat … were not pulling the trigger on the weapons.”
>He designed the original AR-15 — and a .223 caliber bullet capable of piercing a metal helmet at a distance of 500 yards — in his garage.Stoner, an avid hunter, was then contracted by the U.S. Army for his work developing the automatic rifle, which was renamed the M-16 for the battlefield. But family members said he never fathomed they’d be used by citizens to kill.“After many conversations with him, we feel his intent was that he designed it as a military rifle,” Stoner’s family said. “[He] focused on making the most efficient and superior rifle possible for the military.”
AR Makers BTFO Gunfags, Claim it was "Never Intended for Civilian use"
Other urls found in this thread:
americanrifleman.org
law.cornell.edu
en.wikipedia.org
m.youtube.com
m.youtube.com
m.youtube.com
youtube.com
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If Stoner had such strong feelings about who should and should not use his rifle then he probably shouldn't have licensed it out to Colt
The family that got rich by selling the AR to civilians now says the AR was never meant for civilians.
>implying his opinion matters
the second amendment is written to ensure all civilians' armaments be equal to that of any soldier.
actually that was colt, not armalite.
americanrifleman.org
>Intended
That's great and all...
Oh wow the left talking for a dead Man. Just like using all those victims to push their agenda. Absolutely disgusting.
>"the people"
meaning the people of the militia, yes, not the general populace
vague wording is vague
I like how they try to work up this perception that a .223 caliber bullet is huge or something
p.s. the rifle he developed for adoption as the M16 was also meant to replace the much more lethal and effective M14 (partly because soldiers were having difficulty controlling automatic fire, negating the effectiveness of the weapon).
he did you a fucking favor.
aimed semiautomatic fire from a .308 rifle is a death sentence out to 100 yards even in the hands of a complete fucking moron. most DMs can hit those 600-700 yard shots cold, with just a little extra training beyond that of the rest of the infantry. why even walk into a club? you can be two blocks away and kill half a dozen people before any of them even know what's happening. these raghead shooters actually walk right up within stabbing distance where you can get them instantly; the only reason these tragedies are so gruesome is that nobody fights back because you're all a bunch of anti-gun pussies who literally gather together and dare them to come at you.
>this fucking chump
>every time
law.cornell.edu
'
Militia Act of 1903
"every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age who is not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia"
It would be pretty shit if a civilian ever needed such a thing.
But we sure have them :-DDDD
>ends bait post with reddit tier meme
every time
Last I checked, the AR was on civilian market before the military picked it up.
AK was meant for civilian use.
he can't explain how the framers of the constitution wrote the militia into it with an amendment, 114 years before the creation of the national guard
don't bother
Well he kind of has a point. Select fire weaponry is actually pretty impractical for civilian uses. The simi automatic version that was purpose built for civilian sale and use on the other hand is an excellent rifle for home defense, hunting medium size game and, sport and competition shooting. Probably one of the best for.
And you know what else the AR family was intended to do?
Manufactured using a cnc machine with just about any common metal alloy, even stainless steel.
This means that no matter what regulations are passed, people will still be able to make them in basements
Kalalnikov really got it righ with the 47. It's like the Toyota Helix of guns.
>1997
>“He died long before any mass shootings occurred."
Jews will literally re-write history to fit their agenda, and not a single goy will call them out on it... because that's anti-semitic. :^)
>21 killed, 19 wounded: San Ysidro, Calif. - JULY 18, 1984
>14 killed, 6 wounded: Edmond, Okla. - AUG. 20, 1986
>10 killed, 4 wounded: Jacksonville, Fla. - JUNE 18, 1990
>22 killed, 20 wounded: Killeen, Texas - OCT. 16, 1991
At least your gun designers aren't treated as badly as ours
THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
SHALL
It doesn't matter what the intentions of the designer are. If you want an excellent essay on this subject, see here:
en.wikipedia.org
Not impractical when the intended use is resisting a tyrant.
Keep in mind that there is no discussion of need or practicality in the context of the right to keep and bear arms.
Indeed, it's unlikely you're going to beat the high score with it set to full auto.
>this ID has only made a single post
Fuck you stoner assholes
AK-47 is better anyway
Stoner probably thought it was nice people liked his gun.
nope. it was designed and in preproduction and submitted for military review to see if it would meet the M16 specification a whole four years before colt put its first sporter on the market.
every single one of them was automatic. the AR-15 is an assault rifle whose semiautomatic variant has been wildly more successful.
obviously this is hindsight, but colt had from 1963 to 1986 to make and sell as many select fire rifles as they could and civilians just didn't want them that badly.
>But we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events
So they're full of shit and putting words in the hands of a dead man.
The AR15 has been sold to civilians both in full auto(this stopped in 86 thanks to that snake Reagan) and semiautomatic since 1963.
(((((((the family))))))))
He designed a shit weapon that would melt and or jam constantly. My uncles were alpha company and have told me the horror stories about when they first got those m-16's. Both of them against regulation used stolen ak-47s.
I have heard similar unkindly stories about the early days of the M16.
>meaning the people of the militia, yes, not the general populace
How?
I get that the schooling system is crap and you probably don't even know what the thing in that image is let alone being able to grasp the very clear and simple grammar of the second amendment but God damn.
Are you illiterate or being deliberately manipulative?
Obviously it was never "intended" for civilian use, but it will do just fine.
Wasn't there a big problem with a change in ammo right before it was deployed to the front lines?
You can't buy full auto rifles though, so its not really the same thing.
...
Hey faggot, you forgot
>the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
I forgot the whole story about pre-deployment issues but I know from what my uncles said the gun was shit in vietnamese jungles. They said it was shit and constant issues with dirt in the gas system.
And not that the M1 is the same kind of thing, but I also heard some folks were keen to dump the M16 for an M1 just because at least it could get certain kinds of jobs done reliably.
>1 post by this id
Every time
>fire rifles as they could and civilians just didn't want them that badly.
Because of the NFA.
If that didn't exist the full auto variant would have been much more popular because it is the same price as any other regular AR.
The $200 tax stamp getting fingerprinted registering it and waiting 6-12 months is of course going to deter people from getting the giggle switch modles and opt for the semiautomatic versions.
>first AR15 sold to the civilian market in 1963
>died in 1997
He had 34 years to say that it was never intended for civilians but never did? Also there were mass shootings, seeAlso, the UT Austin guy killed a good amount of people as well in his shooting. This article reeks of Judaism
Pic related is an ad from around 1964
Yea my one uncle stashed his M1 before he got his hands on an ak.
the army only asked for the M16 in the first place because they determined, via study, that a field of automatic fire would be just as effective as aimed semi-automatic fire on the battlefield. this is incomprehensible to me. i don't think they were right. but i haven't read all the details.
even under the assertion that "civilian uses" includes militia overthrow of tyrannical government which _is_ armed with automatics and uses them "well," aimed semi-automatic fire wins.
no one is going to run-and-gun with the hessians at ranges of 50 feet like omar and the poopdicks. you always let a raid team in and take whatever they want, you don't resist. why would you? 20 of your friends will be waiting for some of them down the street from their homes at night. there's no hiding from an armed populace for which the legal penalty of owning a firearm is all but equal to that of using it in a robbery or a murder.
Reminder that the Orlando shooter did not use an AR-15.
This is due to the military switching powder and not even issuing cleaning kits to soldiers telling them "this huur future raffle don't eben need cleaning"
Once cleaning kits were issued these problems all but vanished.
And they've since been completely eliminated with minor improvements to the design. Well about as far as a mechanical device can get and still be a practical tool to issue to soldiers.
Vids related
well yes, the law was the operant component in that equation. i'm saying, people chose not to change those laws in order to liberate the funs. the '34 NFA was amended by the '68 GCA to create the title 2 weapons classification, and nobody saw fit to stash a bunch. then in '86 the FOPA wrecked the market even more. people didn't tell their representatives the right thing, enough times.
The gunpowder was switched to a dirtier, cheaper version than what was intended.
Can someone explain this shitty meme?
reminder that the only reason the sig sauer MCX exists is so that sig can lock you into a platform that's similar to the AR-15 and you buy more of their shit, both weapons remain operationally identical
rip sig, don't buy new, buy your p220 on gunbroker, look for the west german stamp
HOLLLLYYYY SHITTTTT
Why the fuck will people not stop talking about the Armalite-15?
It's just a populat semi-auto rifle. I understand complaining about semi-automatic rifles but why this obsession over banning specifically the armalite-15? Is it really that "scary" looking that it pushes the propaganda agenda in a way an AK or SKS or any other semi-auto cant?
Stories about rusting barrels and holding up miserably under jungle use in Vietnam were pretty commonplace growing up in the 90s when it felt like there were more Vietnam vets around to bitch about the early M16s being utter POS's.
I think all the utter horror stories i heard in the 90's cultivated my distaste for the gun, especially during those Brady Bill years when I started shooting, back where nobody could buy new ones anyways.
AR's really seem to have gotten a second wind from Iraq II and all the post-9/11 fellating of "the troops", and the fact that the AWB expired in 2004, in the heat of that culture, is to me the main reason for its explosive popularity over the past 10 years or so.
Me, I learned to shoot on Anschutz diopter-sight match .22s and M1 Garland's.
.223 is a great round for introducing your girlfriend to high power shooting, and a pretty decent round for teaching your 11 year-old to hunt small game.
The idea that the AR-15 can be made out by the gun grabbers to be this no holds barred killing machine is hilarious, and part of me wants to see a mass shooter blowing limbs off with a PTR-1/AR-10/FAL, or blowing people in half with a .30-06 or 7.62x54, just so people can see how harmless the AR-15 is.
Just saying if the internet existed at the time none of those laws would have passed.
They didn't pass due to popular demand they passed under the radar with little knowledge from the population.
Imagine if the only news the entire nation got was from.news papers the radio and television?
And look at what the media is pushing right now but imagine there was zero opposition to it in the form of media.
The OP is spamming this shit and leaving it while you chucklefucks reply to it over and over again.
>both weapons remain operationally identical
No they aren't.
The MCX is much much closer to the AR180 in operation.
The only interchangeable parts is the lower receiver and trigger group.
Everything else works entirely differently even compared to a piston AR
>shooting garlands
user, c'mon now, lets not get this website v&
this is exactly what happens when there's a mass shooting. people flipped their shit over the bushmaster company when the DC sniper's rifle was finally in LEO hands. same-same.
ignore it. nothing will change. trump won't enforce obama's new FFL edict.
And Kalashnikov lamented the fact that the AK47 became so popular and widespread.
Tough shit.
...
0/10
>not posting the best AR15 vid on youtube
m.youtube.com
I love rewatching this everytime someone says the AR jams or is a shitty weapon etc
>the army only asked for the M16 in the first place because they determined, via study, that a field of automatic fire would be just as effective as aimed semi-automatic fire on the battlefield. this is incomprehensible to me. i don't think they were right. but i haven't read all the details.
iirc a lot of that was based off of combat studies of ww2 battles
they found that most engagements happened within 100 yards or so, thus accuracy beyond that isnt worth much
rate of fire was more important than accuracy
and having a hard hitting round was important too
The soviets did similar studies and found the same things to be true. Interestingly they went on to make the ak, which takes a different approach to the above lessons.
i didn't say "interchangeable parts" i said "operationally" identical.
that means both weapons, treated as a black box, do the same things for the shooter. there is a rail system. there is a pistol grip and a shoulder stock. there are a similar set of available calibers. and so on.
So? Einstein didn't contribute to physics so nuclear weapons could be developed, and look at what happened.
Both side by side are a must
Shooting an AR like that isn't exactly going to happen but tripping face first into a mud puddle is very likely as a soldier.
good to know.
iirc the AK is the way it is because production chains were more important than soldiers? almost anybody in russia could bang out an AK, its just folded metal. the AR requires milling machines. commies are eternally poor.
We don't care. Anti-gunners BTFO, shall not be infringed, let freedom ring.
>M1 Garland
All but vanished
>AR Makers
>The family of the man
What?
It's a finicky weapon, it builds up carbon around the blowback lines exhaust and star chamber which causes it to jam.
If I were as pathetic as /k/ and some of you the AR would be my weapon of choice for the simple reason that I know it inside and out. I could take it apart and put it back together blindfolded in a matter of seconds.. but that was when it was part of my job
I hope that Obama makes an attempt to issue a ban for it's civilian use, not that it would matter much, Hillary will surely make it happen once she enters office
>implying even if true that it matters
By the way the hearsay of relatives isn't evidence
Wouldn't bait reaction images be more effective?
So what's the difference between any guns?
Ebin
Who cares... this is old news. And as long as an AR-15 helps fight against a tyrannical government... then that's all that matters... because that's what the amendment was written for, to protect the other amendments, especially the first amendment.
Agreed, my video just gives me a bigger stiffy
>i said "operationally" identical.
Which is wrong from a mechanical standpoint considering they use entirely different operating systems to achieve semiautomatic fire.
By what you're saying every detachable box magazine semiautomatic rifle is the same operating system.
Pic1/2 related
Einstein wrote a letter to Roosevelt to get the Manhattan Project going.
>ar makers claim
>the maker is dead for almost 20 years
How can dead men claim something? You sure you haven't been huffing propaganda again?
Wow. The family of a dude who has been dead for 20 years said some shit.
I am now completely for infringing rights.
This was BTFO by /k/ last night.
Honestly, trying to look into why Truman got convinced to nuke Nippon was a pivotal point in me deciding to spend years reading books to try to figure out if this shit was serious or just tin foil.
The Sig MCX as much much more in common with the Ar18(0) than the AR15.
Fucking Cuck Rifle
EVERY GUN BY RIGHT IS FOR CIVILIAN USE. WE LET THE MILITARY USE THEM.
/Thread
There are also tests like that. The AR-15 is a dependable and accurate rifle. The design of the AR-15 has been changed quite a bit since Vietnam and the issues with it in that war were partially because of the fact that soldiers weren't properly trained with them.
Keyword. Can.
>died in 1997
>before any mass shootings
So clearly the gun has been in civilian use and has only recently become an issue. It's a problem with the people then, and not the weapon.
Sounds like they might have been asked leading questions by a hostile interviewer. Sure, it was initially designed for military use but I don't see any catagorical opposition to civilian ownership. And of course they have to say they feel bad about a massacre.
>AR Makers
>Family of the man
>"“But we do think..."
Into the trash it goes
This is nothing more than a man's cuck children attempting to get their 15 mins of fame by throwing their family in the trash.
This is the same kind of trash that melts their grandfathers 1911.
>youtube.com
Outside of catching the odd radio report, I stopped following the story after Sunday. What did he use?
DESU, I think the idea that a single man was able to kill 50 and injure 50 more is ridiculous regardless of what gun was used. Especially considering apparent survivors have multiple gun shot wounds. The time needed to do that doesnt add up to me. Maybe I just underestimate how completely helpless homosexuals and women are.
well guess ill just buy a Sig Sauer MCX instead
>iirc the AK is the way it is because production chains were more important than soldiers? almost anybody in russia could bang out an AK, its just folded metal. the AR requires milling machines. commies are eternally poor.
Sorta
But I would say that had more to do with the us and ussr taking very different lessons from the war with regards to production
The commies never had to deal with strategic bombing. So the AK can be massed produced for cheap with mostly stamped parts. However those metal stamping machines are large, power hungry and very heavy. You can only produce the ak economically on a large factory scale - something that is very much in line with soviet style economic planning. However those factories are a big target that can't be moved or dispersed effectively, meaning they will be knocked out easily in a war.
The US bombed the shit out of the germans and japs, and as such we were very interested in learning everything we could about the effects of our campaign. The germans had a good amount of success at dispersing their factories, and this is a lesson the US took to heart. So while using cnc machines were a really "high tech" means of production back when the stoner was new, it had the advantage of being hugely dispersalable. In theory anywhere with a cnc milling machine could become a gun foundry. And it was known then that these machines would become very common, as they are today. Short of killing just about everyone in the US you'll never be able to stop ar production here.
you mean like a pistol and a rifle?
i didn't say you were wrong. you're not. i'm talking about the end-user's wallet. you could buy an MCX and then have to pay sig more money later for upgrades. or, you could buy the cheapest lower receiver you can find, wait for sales, interchange parts when design revolutions occur, etc.
i got to make pic related in that post and all i needed was a new barrel for a rifle i had had for a decade.
Fuck you "not my AR-15" cucks. All you care is about your own rifle. You would like to see MCX and AK banned just so you could own yours for little longer. What a cuck.
>The design of the AR-15 has been changed quite a bit
You an still take any modern bolt carrier lower reciver or upper receiver and put it into any old Colt SP01
The biggest changes were the forward assist dustcover (which is a big change in terms of reliability) and various furniture changes retained take down pins.
But like we both said the issues seen were ue to soldiers not being trained to clean their rifles.
>Give the license to a privately owned company, Colt
>WOW GUIS LOOK EVEN THE DESIGNER WAS AGAINST IT.
They where with you only for your money.
I love how buttblasted they get about the increasing attempts at 3D printer guns.
God Bless the US of A.
The guy wasn't a civilian, he was a contractor and an ex cop, so...
a person picks up either one and one trigger pull equals one shot.
the AR-15 variant costs him $500 to $900 unless he really wants to splurge.
the MCX costs him $1600.
if he had bought that AR 30 years ago, he'd still be able, right now today, to put a timney drop-in trigger group into it, and national match sights on top, vastly improving his weapon. he didn't need to know that back then to take advantage of this today, and nothing special changes about the delivered capability. one trigger pull one shot. same with bolt carriers that are now made with fancy coatings. and so on.
MCX buyers are chumps and they probably all have iphones. sig will not keep up with innovation that takes place across dozens of manufacturers who are sticking to the AR-15 specs, i guarantee it.
I think he's just pointing out the hypocrisy and ridiculousness of the leftist position on the matter , m8
>every detachable box magazine semiautomatic rifle is the same operating system.
no, because the end-user buys magazines which have to marry the weapon. the AR-15 is STANAG and sig probably wisely stuck to that, too. but not every rifle is.