Is Punk's utopian dream dead or were the old Punk and Post Punk periods just flukes...

Is Punk's utopian dream dead or were the old Punk and Post Punk periods just flukes? No longer can any autodidact or working class dreamer aspire to stardom, cause you need to have connections in metropolitan places with cliquey and ideologically monotone rags like Pitchfork. Instead of elevating the common man, being inclusive to struggling people(that includes country), these places just cheer louder for established pop acts or already well off mediocrities. Is the future fucking Frankie Cosmos and Clairo?

>implying it was about that to begin with in the us
>implying rollins, mackaye and pals weren't upper class prep school transplants

The punk scene is still alive and well, particularly with crust punk, hardcore, folk punk, and pop punk.

I completely disagree with your premise that nobodies can't make it. It's actually easier now than ever for people to break into musical careers, but they have to tour constantly.

The one thing I do agree with you on is the idealism of punk, and the same can be said of hippies and hip hop; it seems like people no longer think political music can change the world, so I see almost no real musical activism, which is striking to see in punk.

Nor here in the UK - mainly middle class boys. Joe Strummer's dad was a diplomat. Punk was slumming it for fun.

All those are microscenes today with no path to national or international relevance. If that's your idea of making it, I suppose they are.

The one cliché about Punk music is that these people seen their older siblings try to change the world through music and fail, hence the nihilism.

Although I prefer National Socialism in my Punk. Heil Ian Stuart Donaldson!

We know. American punk has always been the domain of hipster art school dropouts, it doesn't have the working class roots it did in Britain.

But once a punk band "makes" it they are no longer "punk". How could someone possibly stand for the common man when they profit hand over fist off of their workingman appeal? Its faux activism that is quickly obliterated when the hasty exit from lower class to petite bourgeios is made. Anyway the whole working class appeal has been replaced by virtue signalling, man hating feminism, and white guilt in the hardcore scene. Oi!

They aren't. Hardcore is awkwardly straddling the line of new identity politics and demanding a place for trans and POC in a musical scene that has and always will be predominately white and CIS gendered, so it comes across as pandering, divisive, and effete.

>No longer can any autodidact or working class dreamer aspire to stardom, cause you need to have connections in metropolitan places with cliquey and ideologically monotone rags

What do you mean by "stardom"? Artists at a high level of popularity always had to deal with major record labels and cliquey press, don't pretend it was any better in "le good ol' days".

If you're just talking about having a musical career, it's ALWAYS been a small minority of people who've been able to make a living off their art and gain a following. In fact, you might say there are more of these people than ever with the rise of the internet breaking down barriers to entry.

>Joe Strummer
>Malcolm McLaren
>Penny Rimbaud
>Pete Shelley

All wealthy. We were no different. Even SLF were manufactured. You are wrong

The irony is that the New Wave era was perhaps the start of this musical nepotism to the level we have it now. Sure, there's always been people who've gotten in on their connections, but it seemed much less in the past. I think part of it falls down to laziness. Why bother going up and down the country to dingy clubs week in week out where you may or may not find someone to sign when you can just sign your co-worker's niece with much less effort?
A lot of the early Punks were either rich kids slumming it, like the Clash, or were just connected to people who had immense connections, like the Pistols, but that's not to say that there weren't a whole lot of others, admittedly less successful that those lot, who formed in their wake and ended up getting signed and somewhat successful from nowhere.

Working class is metal, not punk. That's how it always was

I'm not saying Skrewdriver weren't working class. I'm saying successful Punk musicians weren't.

I'm right-wing, so I don't dislike the Clash for being wealthy. Nor do I dislike them for being Reds. I merely enjoy their art.

Punk is "dead" because popular culture works by fads driven by Jews in suits. It's as "dead" as Disco.

Nothing screams working class grittiness like Scandinavia lmao

T. Kvulterer than thou
I think he was refering to normal Heavy Metal and the NWOBHM

>that's not to say that there weren't a whole lot of others, admittedly less successful that those lot, who formed in their wake and ended up getting signed and somewhat successful from nowhere.
This, there were more agents scouting people at local places, but now nepotism prevails.

You are absolutely right - it is a reflection of the
economic and political course of our country as
well. Sorry to tell you that, but musicians can't
make money anymore by selling records. It is
really sad, but stardom is sort of over rated
anyway, you'd be better off trying to gather
a community of people who are on the same
page locally instead of dreaming of immediate
international stardom LIKE those bands that
were playing during those times (CBGBs).

They were doing it because they loved art, not
to become international stars. Look at what it
did to Johnny Rotten, that guy is totally
disillusioned these days.

This isn't just music, I see the same thing in V.I.
Lenin and his older brother 1870s Russia with
political theory.

I would argue that music does change the world,
it just isn't as measurable as some people would
like it to be. What music did Donald Trump
listen to? Nietzsche listened to Wagner,
Hitler to Nietzsche's writings. It's pretty
complicated but still, art does impact the world
even if it doesn't sell a million records.

If history is made of millions of individuals
working in their own mechanisms of decision
making, and if music impacts an individuals
view of the world, (which it would, even pop
has lyrics of utopianism and such) then in fact
music is a very important part of the human
condition and alters its politics, and it's politics
alter its music, and so on.

You just cannot quantify and sell these types
of forces, it won't appear on a statistics chart.

Is it true that there aren't as many rock or punk
groups 'making it big' like they used to?
Sure, but it's only relevant to the mass culture.
Punk is not dead, it just exists on smaller,
localized levels. Also, there is the paradox
that exists in which when punk music goes
mainstream, the less 'punk' it becomes,
because typically punk music is for people
who are disenfranchised with the system, why
would the system promote its own disenfranchisement?

Blahblahblah and so on.

The important thing is that if it makes you
rejoice, it's good music - if you can find a group
of people to rejoice with through music, you've
got it.

>start out as a musical movement praising what is "genuine," anti-establishment, and focused on straight music without too much technical production
>become soulless corporate music to sell an image
Let's see what genres have fallen into this trap
>punk
>alt rock/whatever you want to call Nirvana and Pearl Jam
>hard rock/hair metal (scared the music industry at first before becoming generic corporate sellouts)
>hip hop
>britpop
>thrash
I'm sure there's more

Britpop was always made up and pushed by the music magazines. A lot of them hated being thrown into it, Suede in particular.

>punk
>utopian Dream
nigga wut?

punk was never about reaching the mainstream

it's about supporting your local scene and making an impact locally, which is the best thing you can do

>what is diy ethos

Punk is absolute shit. The only good punk (Clash, Jam, Stooges) aren't really punk in the first place.

Breath taking revelation there! Here is a well deserved (you) for expousing such a bold and thought provoking point of view!

did my Sup Forums break, why y'all so fuckin compact