Why is Alien the only science fiction film to ever pull off actual believable characters with genuinely realistic dialogue?
There is never a single moment in Alien where characters act contrary to how humans could believably react to their situation. Why does every other film find this so hard to do. Even every Alien film since has felt like film characters acting out a script.
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Because they knew the general premise was great, but the script had so many writers and arguments during its development they basically just said fuck it and let a talented group of actors improv most of it.
And because Ridley back then was more than just a dude who knew how to shoot scenery well, he actually let his actors take risks and roll with things.
Writing dialogue in Hollywood is probably one of the toughest parts of writing (mostly because writers are autistic)
Look all around you today with the fucking race baiting and shit
80's was the only time people were truly authentic with each other, we all thought we'd be living in space by now not, roasting each other over 73 genders and trigger warninings, the 80's was a time of honest hope were people thought humanity was going to make it.
It was the dawn of blockbusters so there wasn't a ridged formula yet.
It really is bizarre how natural and realistic the characters feel in this movie and how no one thought it was worth continuing on this route or trying this approach in anything else which certainly makes Alien unique. I keep watching bullshit like Star Wars and HBO shows and everything is such a fucking corny performance now. Everything is cliched now more than ever..
District 9 felt pretty real to me desu, but I know it's HIGHLY POLARIZING
The Thing did a pretty good job of ordinary people, isolated from he rest of humanity, dealing with an unknown bloodthirsty species imo.
Aye that one was good, not perfect but it felt like the return of Verhoeven if only for one movie.
Raising Arizona
wife is a writer
25 f&sf novels out
can confirm for mild autism
The Thing is fantastic, it feels like John Ford western.
They couldn't make a damn movie now with realism, there's going to be a kung fu gravity defying sequence or something fucking dumb shoved in there, there is no escape.
>Alien came out in 1979
user...
It'd because a lot of the scenes are totally improvised.
For example, the infamous breakfast scene wasn't really scripted. The actors were all just doing whatever and pretending like they were really just sitting down for breakfast. And also, none of them knew Kane was going to chest-burst, so the looks on their faces when that happened was genuine.
>It's a millenial thinks we could access movies straight away on torrents or by netflix back in the 80's episode
Most people couldn't even afford VCR's till 84 my mane
That's important and all, but what about the bonus situation?
>none of them knew Kane was going to chest-burst
Yes they did because it was in the script. This myth is debunked on every behind-the-scenes bit ever. They knew roughly what was going to happen, but they didn't know how exactly it was going to pop out and that they would be sprayed with blood.
CAN WE
This a million times. The dialogue genuinely makes this one of the greatest scifi films of all time and it's littered with moments that feel unmistakably genuine.
In the 80s some british film makers had an approach that involved letting dialogue flow naturally between characters without the content being specifically ad libbed. That meant that you had characters stammering, speaking over each other and delivering dialogue out of mic range. The result is something that sounds amazingly realistic.
For whatever reason that approach doesn't really exist anymore, despite the popularity of 'found footage' movies. I think the perception is that it can be confusing for audiences.
Alien really makes me remember how stiff a lot of dialogue really is; characters taking it in turns to yell, the exchange of perfectly timed quips, the absolute inability of a writer allowing characters to respond with silence. It's miserable, frankly.
That still counts.
There are other films that have similarly realistic dialogue delivery. Gary Oldman's Nil by Mouth comes to mind.
TALK ABOUT
Well, the flipside is that I watched Alien a dozen times before I caught what they were saying in every scene. It's realistic and I'm not faulting it for that, but a bunch of people would be going "what'd he say?" half the time. It wasn't until I watched it with subtitles that I realized Ash describes the alien as "Kane's son" after Brett gets taken.
Plus he would have to get 'into' the table so an alien could burst through his fake chest from underneath
altman wrote his films like that, mash in particular comes to mind, everyone was always speaking over one another.
its not always appropriate but when it works its beautiful
I love Ripley in the breakfast scene.
Such a fucking qt
>Ash describes the alien as "Kane's son" after Brett gets taken.
I've seen Alien at least twenty times and I never noticed that. Amazing.
WHY DON'T WE JUST FREEZE HIM
THE BONUS SITUATION
she's ugly, I just dont get it
It was probably the influence of Altman and Cassevetes on Scott. I don't believe anyone had tried to apply that directing style to a sci-fi film before and Scott really went at it.
Not many actors/actresses can play off something as simple as pretending to have drunk something. Most times you can tell they're just raising an empty mug to their lips and tilting it to simulate drinking. Once the mug is brought away their lips aren't moist, the actor isn't smacking as if they've tasted something and their throat never moves--which is an easily tell. The simulation comes off as robotic and begs the question why the director would want it included at all.
It's a very basic thing that can really break or sell the scene that's filmed. In spite of never touching what's been set before her she nibbles on small food and draws believably from her mug. It's a small thing but it really compliments the scene. And too many people fuck that up.
This is a great point
>In the 80s some british film makers had an approach that involved letting dialogue flow naturally between characters without the content being specifically ad libbed.
What school of filmmaking was this, if it ever got a label? Which directors? And what noteworthy flicks did they produce?
Seconded. I also notice this problem with lots of movies from the 70s. 50s, i can hear every word, same as 60s. But 79s movies seem to have a lot of people talking off mic or over eachother and I never understood why
What I love about The Thing is they are fairly logical in what they do - big scary alien shows up, they fucking burn it and quickly realise it could be any of them
No bullshit denial or being picked off one by one (sort of)
Writing is easy except all the writers in hollywood are psuedo intellectual retards who try to make everything bigger, smarter, and grander than their dumb minds even understand. Some of them are just lazy as fuck on top of all that(see Damon Lindelof)
I don't think this a bad thing. Obviously it's a matter of degree--you don't want to bury crucial plot information in a bunch of mumbled crosstalk, and there is a time and place for clear monologues, but I think it's a shame that so many scripts these days seem to require "snappy" dialogue. It does feel very fake and artificial, and it means dialogue often dominates the scene and controls how they cut and frame shots. It's rare to see a scene with dialogue that is carried by the actors' overall behavior and mood rather than specific line deliveries, and it's rare to see an effects-heavy scene with dialogue that doesn't use reaction shots and cutaways.
Eh, I disagree, I love The Thing but still think it feels pretty contrived with how people go off alone in the first half of the movie.
I look at PTA and see that he gets dialogue. It works well.
And someone like Wes ANDERSON writes dialogue that's in his style. Dead pan and depressed.
People wrote better in the 70s and 80s because they didn't have 'formulas' to follow. Besides, we're half robots these days anyway because of the homogenization of thinking caused by mass ubiquitous communication. Dull people speak in memes instead of actual unique dialogue. They also figure that humanity is getting slowly less intelligent because of safety. We're becoming like cows every generation. Domesticated and dumb because stupid people aren't culled anymore.
goddamn jonesy is a great actor
I doubt most people on this board have ever even had a VCR or a tape deck.
agreed. As much as I enjoy watching marvelshit, and really action movies in general, I find myself thinking "no one in this situation would act like this/say that, it doesnt make sense." while watching said movies.
>mfw jonesy has been dead for decades
>what about the bonus situation
this was the actual moment I knew the movie wasn't going to be 99% cornball monster movie dialogue
...
i still remember when we got our first VCR in 79, it was a monstrosity
Louder than a washing machine. CLUNK, shrrrshrrrshrr, CLACK.
this
seeing cats and dogs in old movies and on old album covers and so on always saddens me a little
2edgy5me
>sony calling it 'beta'
they knew they had a loser
yeah it was a comfy sound when the tape was being put towards the head
Wow you're such an oldfag look at you wow
The actors were given a substantial bonus in this situation. By acting natural they became regular working class shlubs that would be incentivised by a share of a bonus whether it was half or full.
>a nigger in space
WE
Right.
see what I mean? people who speak in dipshit.
WUZ TRUCKERS IN SPACE
The head was actually an aluminum drum angled at around I dunno 15 degrees? Hell of a thing watching those operate without a case.
>Most people couldn't even afford VCR's till 84 my mane
And then you accidentally buy a betamax by mistake, so you have to buy a proper one a few years later.
They didnt bloat their budget and actually had to be creative with what they had, unlike modern assembly line productions they call "movies"
yes i know, i used to repair the few i went through quite often
eventually cannibalized the parts and made some custom figures with them
We owned 3 betamax tape decks. It was objectively better. When VHS cost around a box of crackers we bought one of those so we could rent from blockbuster.
still remember taping this video on my last betamax. youtube.com
I love these moments in movies: someone just says that one thing that tells you aren't in for the same old bullshit.
Alien is pretty much the perfect film.
>DAE remember this old gem called the V C R? FUN FACT it played "Video Cassettes" Remember to like, comment, and subscribe xD
You should watch the rifftrax of it. It's a fun laugh to have. When the alarm goes off when they crash land " Someone's clown exploded!"
>They didn't know Kane was going to chest-burst
As if the chest-bursting actually took place, and wasn't an elaborate special effects shot set-up that took hours
A film with actual class issues? There's your simulacrum of reality right there.
>
>For example, the infamous breakfast scene wasn't really scripted. The actors were all just doing whatever and pretending like they were really just sitting down for breakfast.
It's, it's almost as if they were.... Acting?
He did that while they were improving as hard as they could and enjoying their cereal and nobody noticed. John Hurt is a legend and not many actors could have got into the table as well as he did.
I did. I even used to rent them weekly. And I never rewound even once
I had a VCR in 1983 when I was 10, I'm way older than most on this board. Alien was one of the few movies my parents would not let me rent. They didn't really care about tits or swearing but Alien, no way, they said I could watch when I was older. I think they were afraid I would freak out or something. That VCR tape cover was so subtle, and the fact that I wasn't allowed to see it, Alien was sort of a holy grail for me as a kid. They let me watch it finally when I was 13. Then I got to see Aliens in the theater.
i kept getting charged late fees for shit i didn't even fucking rent at blockbuster. after i got my money back i said fuck this shit and stopped renting altogether.
same age as you, my dad actually took me to see alien in the theatre in 79, he took me to see all kinds of shit like that.
even the maggot rape scene in galaxy of terror, he didn't give a shit
they kept that one chick in the dark though I thought
They can't just have water in the cup?
What am I missing here?
>maggot rape scene in galaxy of terror
Yum num delicious worm rape.
What does F&F mean?
Find & Fuck?
I just love her, period
:3
Mr. Hoyt...?
user...
Tfw I have the Alien Trilogy collectors VHS set at home but this thread reminded me there might not be VCRs to play it on 5 years from now but I don't want to hoard old tech like a grandpa.
No one has posted it yet.
look at how youthful Stanton looks
>stay tuned, we'll be back to the wheel after these messages...
>what is Blade Runner
watch more movies
Not only that but it became the basis for many other medias. Lily c.a.t and metroid wouldn't exsist without alien
>Lily C.A.T.
Just looked this up, first time hearing about it. Is it worth watching?
autism
This is the amazing thing about Alien. The character feel 110% real. It makes the sci-fi elements and the Alien work so much better because of it. It feels so scary because it feels like how things would really go down in that situation.
It's sad what movies have become.
>situation
Sort of, its good but a tad predictable. Worth watching with people who like anime or with family, its not too gorey.
But when were they gonna talk about the bonus situation?
There could be like 20+ takes and then that causes all kinds of trouble.
Sometimes they will have a bucket for the actor to spit the food/water into after the take is over. Obvs doesn't work if you have to actually swallow the water though.
kek
>tfw you will never drink Sigourney Weaver's spit bucket
...