Phil Ochs > Bob Dylan

Phil Ochs > Bob Dylan

>Didn't pander to audiences to sell records
>Actually believed in the lyrics he wrote
>Played thousands of free concerts for working class folk.
>Didn't have a christian phase
>Didn't sound like a goat

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Commie fuck

edgy

>praises the slimiest, most batshit crazy socialist in that whole scene
>durr he's better than Dylan because he wasn't a Christian
Every. Fucking. Time.

>Pander
He never ceded to his audience, that’s why he got so much flack for quitting protest songs/going electric/going country/going Christian/doing standards etc.

>Actually believed his lyrics
How can you know that? Like how can you think for someone else and then draw a finite conclusion?

>Played thousands of free concerts
Ok, now I’m thinking this is bait

>Christian phase
How is that inherently bad? Your neckbeard is showing

>sounds like a goat
Better than sounding like a fucking idiot, but you would know more about that

>praises the slimiest, most batshit crazy socialist in that whole scene
Why?

>durr he's better than Dylan because he wasn't a Christian
Literally one reason. What about the rest?

>He never ceded to his audience.
I can look for sources if you want me to but it's well known that Bob Dylan was an opportunist. Socially, in his music, everything.

>Ok, now I’m thinking this is bait
Why?

>How is that inherently bad? Your neckbeard is showing

Do I really need to answer this?

>Better than sounding like a fucking idiot, but you would know more about that
nice burn

>I can look up sources
But you didn’t before drawing a conclusion. You also didn’t refute how his fan base obviously resisted each phase and change of style. An opportunist is one who shifts towards what is currently trending and attempts to inherit it albeit at the cost of his or her own integrity. Who wanted him to go country? Who did he indulge?

>Do I really need to answer this?
Yes, or are you a man-child who believes someone’s personal religious adherence is null if and only if it’s Christianity? You’re putting fedoras to shame.

>nice burn
baby’s first comeback

I think your Antifa shirt just shipped, maybe it’ll distract attention away from your premature balding

>look up "love me, i'm a liberal" on YT
>comments section is full of republicans who think it's a right-wing criticism of democrats

>Boy Dylan pandered to audieneces?
Huh? His most recognized career move was going electric and thus alienating many of his fans

>But you didn’t before drawing a conclusion.
I knew I read the sources but I'll have to find them again if you want them but any fan of Dylan would know this. I'm a fan of his music.

An example is his protest song phase. That meant nothing to him. He didn't care about anything he was singing about. He just knew pandering the socialist protest folk is easy money. One example is "The Times They Are a-Changin'"

>"Dylan biographer Clinton Heylin recounts how Tony Glover stopped by Dylan's apartment in September 1963, picked up a page of the song Dylan was working on and read a line from it: "Come senators, congressmen, please heed the call." "Turning to Dylan, Glover said, 'What is this shit, man?' Dylan shrugged his shoulders and replied, 'Well, you know, it seems to be what the people want to hear.'" and

>""I thought, 'Wow, how can I open with that song? I'll get rocks thrown at me.' But I had to sing it, my whole concert takes off from there. I know I had no understanding of anything. Something had just gone haywire in the country and they were applauding the song. And I couldn't understand why they were clapping, or why I wrote the song. I couldn't understand anything. For me, it was just insane.""

>Yes, or are you a man-child who believes someone’s personal religious adherence is null if and only if it’s Christianity? You’re putting fedoras to shame.

A christian phase in which he made some of his worst music. If The Beatles had a christian phase and starting making 1 star albums would you mind if people said they were stupid?

If you were any Dylan fan you’d know he is infamous at fucking with interviewers, come on have you even seen Don’t Look Back? One account from one person on one song and you’ve relegated him to some cultural thief.

>A Christian phase where he made some of his worst music
Slow Train Coming is fucking great. He made worse music in the mid-80s well after he backed off his religious influence.

You’re not doing a very good job backing your ass up, man.

“There aren’t any finger-pointing songs in here, either. Those records I’ve already made, I’ll stand behind them, but some of that was jumping into the scene to be heard and a lot of it was because I didn’t see anybody else doing that kind of thing. Now a lot of people are doing finger-pointing songs. You know—pointing to all the things that are wrong. Me, I don’t want to write for people anymore. You know—be a spokesman. Like I once wrote about Emmett Till in the first person, pretending I was him. From now on, I want to write from inside me, and to do that I’m going to have to get back to writing like I used to when I was ten—having everything come out naturally. The way I like to write is for it to come out the way I walk or talk.”

>Slow Train Coming is fucking great.
?

>complains about Dylan pandering
>posts interview where he admits that while he did want to write protest songs partly to be heard in the scene he now wants to go against the expectations of his fanbase
>he doesn’t want to pander

Where did your argument go? You’ve been losing it since the first ((You)).

Obviously later on he started doing his own thing. I'm comparing him to Phil Ochs when they were making the same type of music. Which in that interview he says was all fake.

>climbed to the height of his fame and released his most acclaimed works by pandering to hippies
>LOL BUT I GUESS THAT DUN MATTER CUZ HE CHANGED HIS MIND AFTERWARDS
Well shit I guess that's that.

You're trying to defend the worst parts of Dylan. It's not working because they're, you know, the worst parts.

Have you ever read or watched interviews about why he chose to write the music that he wrote? He literally did it because it was what people wanted to hear. He never believed any of his song lyrics, he just wrote them for others to believe in. Bob Dylan is politically moderate and I find him to be kind of insufferable today.

Your reply is embarrassing

What are these “worst parts”?

>political moderate
That’s actually why he’s tolerable to listen to. Extremists are a plague.

>That’s actually why he’s tolerable to listen to. Extremists are a plague.

Here is a good song about political moderates.

youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

Also
>objectively wasn’t as culturally influential or relevant
Whoops look l gotta go with my boy Dylan

>I believe in Civil Rights
>The negro faces undue strife
>But I won't let him fuck my wife
>So love me, love me, love me
>I'm a liberal

damn...

This is objectively wrong. Like your opinion is actually false.

The best part is none of what you wrote pertains to the fact that Bob Dylan’s music was better.

Despacito and Superhero movies are the culturally influential and relevant of today. Is that a good indicator?

When you go down the list of thing that makes someone a better artist Phil Ochs beats him in all of them except lyrics. Still Dylan lyrics were fake nonsense. At least Ochs believed in what he wrote.

>Telling me to look up sources
You're too lazy to even describe them, or even post a link to them

Bob Dylan's country and rock phases were some of the best rock and country to be made. Nobody likes Phil Ochs rock or country, that's why he killed himself.

He's just like Joan Baez or Pete Seeger, edgy commies that never outgrew the folk movement

His most critically acclaimed works were Blonde on Blonde, Highway 61, and Blood on the tracks, not his hippie songs.