Star Trek

Which Stark Trek is the best series for a newcomer? Deep Space Nine was the one that i was most interested about

I would recommend starting with TNG first, but you can start with DS9 if it's what you're most interested.

The Original Series. No, really. If you're going to get into Star Trek don't watch it in some retarded machete order bullshit.

I'd grab a list of the best original series episodes and watch a half dozen of them, then watch next generation. Depends on your taste though, do you like long drawn out space operas? If you like Babylon 5 or something you might like DS9 the best.

if you like shows with arcs, DS9, if you prefer adventure-of-the-week format, TOS

Well OP what interests you about Star Trek? Pew Pew space fights? Alien cultures? Hard moral dilemmas regarding human nature that get solved in 45 minutes? Two salamanders having consensual sex?

You had me interested up until "consensual"

Tom Paris isn't a rapist, user. He's just a bad father to his abandoned children.

TOS sucks, TNG best, DS9 has it's good points.

I'd start with TNG, then work down to TOS eventually or just skip it.

You haven't watched TOS.

>TOS sucks

The characters are one dimensional and plots of the episodes are so in your face about current events that no room is left to the imagination. Gene put his vision first and character development took a backseat to that.

TOS is good because of the novelty of it, not because there was actually any quality writing.

TNG if you want an episodic show you can watch in basically any order and everything will be the same at the end of the episode. It was more about the feeling of going on a grand space adventure and not knowing what you'll find.

DS9 if you want more of a story arc kind of thing where characters actually change and develop relationships and shit. The writing is way better but it has a whole different "feel" than TNG.

The first few seasons of both shows are kind of bad but both shows ramp up greatly in quality.

>The characters are one dimensional and plots of the episodes are so in your face about current events that no room is left to the imagination. Gene put his vision first and character development took a backseat to that.
all things that could be said about TNG, but the difference is at least TOS was visually interesting and colorful, everything in TNG looks bland and sterile.

don't bother with TOS, nobody under the age of 50 actually enjoys it, it's just redditors who make pretend they do for authenticity points and street cred, there's maybe a dozen episodes worth watching and that's if you're really into trek

> shit tripcucks say

>anyone with a different opinion than me is just pretending
how to spot a self-deluded moron

Reddit has an unfavorable opinion of TOS.

Perhaps you should return.

>Data
>Worf
>Picard
>one dimensional

they're fun characters but hardly complex, same shtick every episode just like Kirk, Spock and McCoy, minus the chemistry

wrong
If you care about science fiction or TV at all it's fascinating, even when bad. It's interesting to even see what was considered pretty advanced special effects for TV in 1967 and also think about how they made that show before people even landed on the moon. You have to learn to enjoy things in their own context instead of directly comparing them to whatever you currently like.

Data, the fucking robot, is one of the only characters in TNG that feels like an actual person and not a bland sterile talking head.

It's just plain comfy. No need to be a pussy who judges it on a curve.

Then you're liking it for being retro TV, not necessarily trek.

Which is okay. I like TOS for its 60s aesthetic as well. If I owned a bar it's definitely something I'd play on in the background on mute.

>doesn't understand Camp
>never watched episodes on Fox
>doesn't know how to have fun
>I don't like it so the only possible way that related generations can 'like' it in any sense is out of some misbegotten duty to culture that isn't really 'theirs'
>is wrong on this point

You make the same obsessive mistake that still-adolescent millenials always make, of being obsessed with some fictive standard of /authenticity/. In doing so, you appeal to some exterior mythical popular exterior standard of what was authenthic where, and when, without bothering to understand such for yourself, which is (the platitude is warranted here) is where real "authenticity" comes from.

the same "people I don't like come from reddit" standard is again fundamentally the same late adolescence. The irony is that most of the posters here are smart enough to understand the pointlessness of this pissing match, but the forum is for downtime, thus the false pissing matches.

Data is a perfect being who wants nothing more than to be a flawed human. Worf wants nothing more than to be accepted by his fellow Klingon and has this idealization of what being a Klingon means rather than what it is. Picard lives by a code of morality and ethics that is almost uncompromising and he will always put the greater good above the needs of a few people.

I feel like you didn't have that as much in TOS. I'm not saying TOS is a bad show by any means, I'm just saying that it was not very subtle and Gene loved the concept of it more than he loved the characters he placed inside that concept.

Why the hell are there people in these threads that haven't blocked me yet?

It is comfy, but understanding context isn't the same as "judging on a curve." Same with movies, different time periods mean you need to approach them in different ways based on the style, customs and techniques of the time, it doesn't imply that one era is inherently superior to another.

When someone watches an action film from the 40s, they can't expect it to be like Die Hard or T2.

>never watched episodes on Fox
Not an argument.

Nobody cares what channel you watched it on.

Hell, some of us watched Star Trek on UPN, and I don't need to tell you what a huge mistake that was.

So people who think TOS is one of the best, why do you think that?

Not trying to judge, just legit curious because nobody has made any real good points about why exactly it is so beloved.

It's better than Voyager and Enterprise, which means that it's automatically in my Top Three.

I watched the first season and most of the second, it was okay, I'm not gonna say I disliked it but let's just say production standards have changed too much in the past 50 years for it to hold my attention.

TOS gives you the perfect trifecta. Spock the rational vulcan, bones the emotional human, and kirk the man who loves the enterprise above all else. That is the core of star trek. those guys out in space on an adventure. They face some ethical problem and solve it with some mix of the three.

definitely TNG
i started with TNG a few years ago and it's the only one i could stick with

i also recommend that you watch star trek iv: the voyage home as well

I think it has the most interesting designs, so much pizazz compared to later Trek shows which are more gray and dull looking. Best ship, best uniforms, and best captain. I like the lack of post-gender nonsense they introduced in TNG, and 60s shows in general are just comfy as hell with Star Trek being no exception.

Most importantly, the core dynamic of Kirk, Spock and McCoy is pitch-perfect and their banter is amazing. Not sure if those qualify as "good points" by your standards but that is what comes to mind. DS9 will always be my favorite though, TOS is second

It's comfy sci fi camp. TNG is way too self serious for an above average genre show.

TNG, then either VOY or ENT, followed by DS9...then if you really, really want - TOS.

First off you have to like old tv. It is more fun and less frustrating. Probably because it feels less real. Everyone is cool and gets along. More a reflection of the writing style at the time. Tension and conflict where supposed to come from the situations the characters where in and not interpersonnel issues. It is very comfy, is slow paced, dramatic, interesting and ussually leaves you wanting more without feeling unsatisfyed. Try it yourself and see what you think.

But doesn't that get boring after a while? I feel as though Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are all very set characters and you can almost predict their actions and reactions in any given situation. Compare this to how Riker handles Locutus or how Quark handles anything. You're not really sure how it's going to turn out.

I can understand why some people find that comforting, but I enjoy the moral ambiguity of the characters found in later Trek series.

Any moral ambiguity from the main cast in TNG stems more from everyone being weird godless and soulless robots incomprehensible to actual people today than any kind of gray morals. TNG pushed the socialist zombie angle much harder than any other series.

>Tension and conflict where supposed to come from the situations the characters where in and not interpersonnel issues

Ideally it should come from both I think. If a character isn't affecting the plot based on decisions they make due to interpersonal issues then what good of a character are they?

>Tension and conflict where supposed to come from the situations the characters where in and not interpersonnel issues
from what i've read, roddenberry strictly dictated that all conflict had to come from external forces because he wanted to portray a humanity that had evolved beyond interpersonal conflicts

It is the interplay between those three archetypes, duty, logic, emotion, and the subtly found in each. Spoke is a good example if you pay attention he is not as cold and logical as the act he puts on. He has a number of great moments where he lets him emotions show and its great.

> I enjoy the moral ambiguity of the characters found in later Trek series.

I won't disagree, it makes them great characters, particularly DS9, but it makes them slightly inferior trek, in my eyes. Kirk, Spock, Bones are nearly Shakespearean in their quality. It is easy to recast them and tell a story with new actors because they can be viewed as these very archtypical characters

>It is easy to recast them and tell a story with new actors because they can be viewed as these very archtypical characters
and yet the reboots failed horribly at recreating them

If you want to watch DS9 just watch DS9. It's really not a big deal. If you like it check out the rest of the series.

Even the "bad" shows have good points.

1. Deep Space 9
2. Voyager
3. Enterprise
4. The Next Generation
.
.
.
9001. The Original Series

I think you are using Shakespearean wrong here. When I think Shakespearean characters I usually think Hamlet, and I'm still not sure if that dude was pretending to be crazy or was actually just insane.

I think Shakespeare is so timeless because his characters were very complex and very realistic. People can imprint themselves on them so easily not because they are simple and stock characters in a story, but rather because his characters have a multitude of emotions are very much human.

That is what they get for trying to remake them as blockbuster movies. TOS always worked best as an episodic tv series. The three, on an adventure, everything solved up at the end of the hour.

Just a brief little jaunt with the enterprise

I'd suggest watching TNG first, maybe not ALL of it, but TNG gives you the best foothold into what kind of world Start Trek is.

You should watch TOS as well, but when is up to you, it's campy and cheap looking, but it is the origins of Star Trek, so you should watch it at some point as it has the emotional/moral basis the series was based on.

I did always prefer a his comedy and romance, but that is besides the point. His characters are not all that complex. It was entertainment for the common man that has been obscured by changes in language which gives the appearance of complexity.

Its all tropes and archetypes that are common in literature, but he executed them well. TOS in its best executed the tropes just as well.

How do we turn ISIS into Bashir's lads?

Genetic engineering.

With quads

Please do not involve my husband Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi with al-Dawla al-Islamiya al-Iraq al-Sham you filthy kafir

So genetic engineering literally removed the wanting to blow yourself up gene I guess.

TNG or DS9 are both good starting points. TNG is more classically Trek. DS9 is a departure from the series. You can also skip around. Watch a few classic TOS episodes so you get the references in TNG and DS9. Especially watch Trouble With Tribbles from TOS before you watch the Tribble nostalgia episode in DS9.

Overall TNG is the best Trek and the best example of what Trek was trying to be.

Watch in order from top to bottom...

>Enterprise
>The Next Generation
>Babylon 5

I'm watching TOS on Netflix for the first time ever and it's great.

DS9 sucks peen. Start with TNG and move to TOS.

>changes in language which gives the appearance of complexity.
It's literally written in verse dude.

Gonna watch TOS, TNG, and DS9 at once. Max comfy without getting bored

Anyone interested in Discovery?

This is the only patrician way to watch Trek.

no

>without getting bored
You're going to watch season 1 of TNG and DS9 at the same time? I'll be surprised if you don't an hero 3 hours in.

I was cautiously optimistic when Fuller was on board.

now I have little hope. Not because it's trying to be diverse, Star Trek has always been progressive.

it feels like CBS is being really cheap in its production. It's supposed to be out in May and we just learned about the main character's casting. no advertising either. The only sneak peak that we got was a sega dreamcast tier cutscene.

Not OP but I was thinking about just watching all of Star Trek because I have nothing better to do with my life. Currently in TOS near the end of S2. (s2 the best so far, corbomite maneuver probably my favourite ep in general so far)
the order would be:
>ToS
>movies 1-6(some of the movies are gonna be a pain..)
>TNG
>the 4 TNG movies
>DS9
>Voyager (ugh)
>Enterprise
>Reboot movies (I put the other shows in between as a buffer, so I don't go straight from old movie to reboot movie. I think that would be to much of a visual leap)

i've just started watching and decided to try the first episode of TNG and TOS. found TOS much more enjoyable and continued on the with it.

i'm onto TNG now and im really not enjoying it. i hate wesley and how he's some fucking whiz kid with all the right answers. even the episodes where he isn't in that much are pretty weak. i thought TNG was considered the best, does it ever get better?

> The 4 TNG movies

You can cut those, they're garbage.

And, honestly, I'd say Voyager and Enterprise aren't even worth watching, the amount of shit episodes compared to even just 'okay' ones just makes it a waste of your time.

>Nicholas Meyer is one of the writers
Hope still exists.

Keep watching TOS, TOS get's really good in the second season too. TNG is great too but it takes a while to get going and it with the number of episodes it has it, there's a real "hit and miss" situation there. If you are someone who can't stand seeing plot points coming at you from a mile away stay away from star trek in general, because even without having ever watched star trek, you probably have seen every single star trek plot since they have been re-baked in every way shape and form in other shows, movies, books and fucking cave wall paintings. If you watched Futurama you're gonna recognize some TOS episodes too.

It gets better but its different. Then again I am a sucker for the 60's lighting and characters of the TOS. Every time they focus on kirk and light his eyes or put some Vaseline on the camera when they show a women, it just works.

TNG has some great eps, especially after Roddenberry leaves. He wanted to create this paragons of humanity with the characters and they feel so lifeless. The writers try to bring back the humanity as the series progresses

the heightened progressivism wouldn't bother me as much if it wasn't a prequel to TOS, where a certain amount of social conservatism is obviously still present. We're really supposed to swallow the idea of an minority-women led cast in Kirk's time? lel

meant as a response to

Yep. This is true and is why i brought it up. Of course there are examples where this is not the case but the show rarely feels petty and the few characters that were shit lords either got what was coming to them or the main cast understood the deep emotuonal reasons for their behaviour and tried to help in whatever way they could. People being petty and stupid in tv is something that i find annoying rather than relatable and realistic (as i guess it is supposed to be).
Dont know what you are on about friendo.
Are you suggesting someone can't have an effect on a story without focusing on petty infighting?

Nobody ever knows what he's on about.

Oh shit. Didn't see he was a tripfag. Will ignore in future.

Bashitnigger kysfgt.

Should have been set after DS9/Voyager so we could at least have a chance of seeing new species and to see what happened after.

Still any new Trek series is better than no Trek I guess.

I'm guessing the issue with a post VOY series is a commercial one. This series is capitalizing on the success of the 2009 reboot, so its target audience is not familiar with the major galaxy changing events of DS9 and VOY.
The other option is to go way far in the future past VOY, but then you probably have a Trek universe that is unrecognizable compared to the Kirk era.

Yeah I understand that, sucks for me but I'm still hyped for a new Trek.

/thread

Are there any Usenet posts/archives or something similar where I can read the reaction to TNG/DS9 when they were first aired?

i cant wait for the borg to show up in ds9.

I haven't seen Enterprise, but Voyager is only worth watching if you really liked the other shows and just need a Trek-type formula to keep you going.

Season 2 is where TNG starts to get some really good eps (I think the first truly great episode is A Matter of Honor). 3-6 are the golden years.

I'm actually rewatching the first episode of TNG right now and I would love to read the reaction of Klingons (Worf) looking so different to TOS and whether they were buttblasted.

Looks awful bro. Kind of wish they'd let the franchise die

Well aside from the unaired pilot (WHAT'S A WOMAN DOING ON MY BRIDGE?) TOS Was quite progressive. Even when encountered less advanced, "tribal" people they went to great lengths to accept their ways and see value in how they did things differently. And I mean not only did TOS have the first interracial kiss in TV history TOS also has a long history of women in quite high ranks. Uhura for instance, who not only knows how to work all her panels, she can also repair them in a pinch. In "Court Martial" the prosecutor against kirk was a woman and there were countless other side characters in reasonable high ranks. And although I don't think there were any girls in the highest places, but they got quite far up and honestly I think it's largely due to writers at the time not even really thinking of women in leading positions besides in terms of weird "amazonian" tribes.

So I think "female leads" could happen in ToS no problem, but I doubt very strongly about any "all female" bridges. Not for the fact that they are female, but because I believe that the federation and their captains would always pick the best people they can get for the job the chances of the all being girls is just.. stupid. My guess is that in the star trek universe despite there being quite a few women, more males than females volunteer for duty. and even then they tend to go for the less "active" parts. communication, medics and nurses and so on. Put some women on the bridge sure, fuck even it out 50/50 if want but all female? Then it becomes a stupid fucking gimmick. having a few girls makes me think: "these girls must be outstanding in their field to have made it this far" if ALL of them are girls I'm just reminded how progressive the writers are trying to be.

That schocked me too. Even in TOS they fluctuate a lot. In their first appearance they just look like brown chinese people and in later episodes they looked more like Turkish people.
But the be fair 90% of alien races in ToS looked like normal Humans, while 5% more looked like blue humans with antennas and only the last 5% looked like outlandish weird creatures/bodyless beings.

jammer's reviews of DS9 season 3-7, VOY, and ENT were written during the original run, don't know of anything else

I liked Enterprise more than Voyager.

You would have to go back to before the internet. The new Klingon design started in the movies.
I think most non-autistic probably people thought they looked badass and appreciated that it was because TOS didn't have the money to do anything beyond some makeup for alien designs.

Star Trek always annoyed me.

>Where about science and learning
>gets into a fight with another race


I mean that would be like David Attenborough going to Antartica to film penguins and every time he does so he some how ends up in a fight with Somali Pirates. Yet he doesn't learn after the first 4 times, he just keeps going back.

it's not safe out there.

It would be like sailing out to find a new island and getting attacked by vikings

Nah man. Nah. Their prime objective is scientific. To learn and to keep peace. The problem is that they get thrown in dangerous situations where they are forced to either fight for self preservation or because another advanced race is trying to take advantage of a less advanced one.

And then of course are the space faring races that are more prone to war like the romulans or the klingons who want (or wanted) the federation dead.
And of course you have to keep in mind that a show like Star Trek is an exaggeration of events. In the show they're at some new planet every week, getting into new hijinks every time, and "ohh how's old kirk gonna get out of this doozy?" It's not an accurate representation of what missions of this kind would really be like because you know.. it's not a (fake) documentary.
If star trek was a bit more realistic you'd get these really long missions where they stay on planets for months at a time just doing research with fuck all happening. they would probably also spend ages just trucking trough space since warp speed is pretty much "however fast it needs to be at this point". I mean think about it, they have faster than light travel, but they can keep visual contact to things? what? how? Or when they're hauling ass at warp 7, that must be a speed fast enough to travel trough entire galaxies in a reasonable amount of time, yet they somehow can notice other ships coming in their direction. at those speeds by the time you opened your mouth to mention it, the ship would be more than hundreds of millions of miles behind you. It would be like seeing a bullet someone shot at you flying towards you and trying to say "Captian, there's a bullet coming straight for us" even IF you could see the actual bullet, by the time you can even start to say something the information has become irrelevant.

In star trek (and other Sci Fi shows, even my beloved firely) there are many many many things were you just have to suspend your disbelief a bit

Yeah I agree with you. The simple fact is women go after different positions, and that isn't going to change in a post-scarcity society.

Anyway, I'm all for female leads in TV shows, but the new series sounds like Supergirl-tier garbage. I guess I'll withhold judgement until then tho

Don't remind me of supergirl. I was so hype for another cool female lead after watching Jessica Jones but my god.. You know what Supergirl thought me? That women are fucking worthless. everyone's like "but you can't because you're a WYMYN and WYMYN can't do shit! Ewww go away! This is not for GIRLS!" but then it turns out she can, because she's super girl. What the fuck does that show us? "Unless you have superpowers you are fucking worthless"?

But yeah for women in the Star Trek universe.. Do I believe that every possible position from ensign and trainee up to command as probably at least one really kick ass female? You bet your ass I do. Do I believe that all the high ranking, kick ass females are put on ship? I fucking don't.
And I'm not even some meninist bullshit crybaby.I just think that making it all female smells even more of tokenism than having a couple of females.

Look at the firefly crew. It has 3 women and they all kick ass in their own way as fully flashed out characters. Zoe makes a kick ass "Warrior woman" and second in command, loyal to the captain to a point that sometimes annoys her husband. Inara is sexy and clever, with feelings for the captain but a proud women with her own ideas and agendas, a very smart women, able to think of cunning plans and ruses she's able to hold her own in her own ways. And of course there's Kaylee, always more upbeat and happy, with a smile on her face has a thing for machines and loves tinkering. she gets equally exited by a pretty dress as she does by engine parts on a trash yard. Also she complains about not getting sexed enough.

If this all female crews personality all boils down to "they were women and they proved themselves worthy despite being women" Imma throw a shitfit.

I've only watched most of TOS, most of TNG and some of DS9 so take my opinion lightly but TOS has a lot of emotion in its characters, their relationships with one another and acting, great banter and the cast is overflowing with so much charisma you'd think they were all vampires in disguise.
TNG is what I like most though

As much. as I like. Kirk. and his. companions. I still will always love Picard as my favourite captain.

And I know what you mean by their relationships and charisma. whenever McCoy or Spock are wounded or in danger kirk will move fucking mountains to see them saved.

fuck even in mirror mirror where everyone thinks murder is just fine and the bestest way to get a promotion Spock has so much respect for kirk.