>The document affirms love and peace as the church's ideals, criticizes racism, inequality, moral degradation and "liberal globalism" -- it's an agenda as conservative as it is anodyne.
>Yet the Council could have changed the Orthodox churches' ossified attitude toward the rest of Cristendom, which has not changed since the Dark Ages. To Orthodox Christians, all other denominations are heresies, not churches. Some steps toward more ecumenism and more openness would already constitute serious progress for what is now the most conservative of Christian denominations. Patriarch Bartholomew, a friend of Pope Francis's, was determined to push it through.
Thankfully, it looks like his agenda has failed.
>the Russian Orthodox church, the biggest of all potential participants, has pulled out at the last moment, following the defection of three smaller churches, and the Council has been rendered meaningless or even damaging to future attempts to bring Orthodox Christianity into the 21st century.
Mission is going well. Doing more outreach to young muslims at Kampala International University. Prayers for patience, peace, and communication are appreciated.
Christopher Jackson
Yeah, I was looking for scriptural reasoning behind mass, veneration of saints, and other Orthodox or Catholic traditions.
Gabriel Clark
Antiochian Orthodox checking in
Michael Taylor
Heeey you're that Ugandan dude from flag thread yesterday!
Wassup bro, hows converting doing
Jack Taylor
Nevermind, found the part about veneration of saints.
>worshipping a Jewish lie >on an anti Jew board >giving a shit about the Russians and their even shittier branch of this Jew religion >only source of proof for anything in the bible is the bible itself or some old jaw that said "there goy Sodom was real see that salt hill? That's the ruins goy"
Top fucking lel
Mason Bennett
Good to know! God bless your endeavor!
Welcome! I take if you're a convert?
Then you'd be Protestant.
Isaac Brown
>Canada Of course, of course. What do you worship, frozen frenchmen?
Andrew Jackson
I'm going to go to RCIA soon but I'm super nervous because I'm so bad at social situations. But I know I need to do it for my soul.
Anthony Gomez
Hey, it can be really frustrating. Young Muslims here are very devout and our worldviews are so so different, so even if we are speaking the same language, communication is hard. The hostility is very thinly veiled. Africans have almost zero sense of time or punctuality. Getting expense reports, showing up on time, or anything remotely time sensitive can be very frustrating. Other than that I love being here. I thank God for the opportunity to spread His word and bring more into the fold. They need it badly here. Keep me in your prayers, you all are in mine.
Ayden Collins
>MuzRats
Just gas the fuckers and be done with it
Jace Price
James 2:14-26
Logan Myers
...
Luke White
If you can't understand books for grown-ups please don't try to talk about them
I finally converted a year ago I come from a Catholic background but my dad became a protestant after my parents divorced and I was atheist for a while so I've kind of been through it all.
Cooper Reyes
Deus Vult bump!!
Daniel Taylor
Reporting in!
Kevin Gray
Kek is the only true proven God. He has manifested himself to us repeatedly in the past 6 months
Isaiah Butler
Welcome! I recommend you read CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" a good non-denominational book that outlines the basics of Christian belief. Probs one of the most influential Christian books. Super good, short, conversational in tone, helped me understand my faith when I was starting out.
Mason Lee
Fuck Bartholomew. Traitor to all Orthodox Christians. He consorts with heretics, the perverts of the Vatican and the cannibals of Islam. Can't wait till he dies, the old whore, and burn in Hell. Maybe then a real Patriarch will step up.
Gabriel Roberts
For those who don't get this, the Pope is basically making it WAY easier to get an annulment, because "not understanding the commitment to marriage" is a valid reason for one in the Catholic Church.
But adultery isn't one of them. Neither is abondoment. So if your wife gets knocked up by another guy, you are obligated to stay with her. Or if you are a mother of three and your husband leaves, you are obligated to raise them as a single mother. But all these stupid reasons are allowed
Compare the Orthodox reasons for divorce, very simple, very practical, pic related
Bentley Jenkins
That See is beholden to America, and has been for decades. That will probably change though, but I don't expect it to any time soon unless a Patriarch is defrocked and replaced by the others, or Russia makes memes real by taking back Constantinople.
Cameron Morales
I have that book I just haven't read it, I'm into more advanced theology. When I was first looking into Orthodoxy I read a lot of Alexander Schemann, Elder Cleopa, and Seraphim Rose.
Henry Peterson
So happy to have you in Christ's Body!
Adrian Ramirez
As a non-denominational conservative Christian, I must say that I'm rather impressed at the number of Christian generals popping up here. Kind of odd that Christians are becoming so counter-culture that we're having threads about the state of the church here of all places, but whatever.
Keep up the good work brother, and God bless.
Luke Bell
>That See is beholden to America That makes sense. Maybe that's why, he alone has visited the Pope more times, than all the other Patriarchs put together. Maybe that's why too, he didn't condemn the Turks reading the Quran this Ramadan in Hagia Sophia.
I hope after his death, which I hope it will come soon, Russia will cast its influence in the Patriarchate of Constantinople and save it from the westerners' grasp.
Nolan Barnes
Don't think you are above everything, everyone can learn, and CS Lewis is a great theological communicator. It helps with apologetics if nothing else. If you are looking into more theology, try Augustine or Assisi if Catholic, Luther or Calvin if Protestant. Idk, i really like Lewis tho
Samuel Edwards
>very simple, very practical That's not a very convincing argument, though. Also the Lord confirmed the indissolubility of marriage: "What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate." -St. Matthew 19:6
Mason Cooper
...
Jose Sullivan
*above Lewis, didnt mean to sound salty
Evan Sanchez
Christ made an exception for sexual immorality and I'm sure he would for children who need two parents.
I don't think he'd make an exception for the person not having the social status you hoped for.
Andrew Reed
>Russia will cast its influence in the Patriarchate of Constantinople and save it from the westerners' grasp. Not likely, unless Turkey is cleaved from NATO
Chase Morris
Jesus lists adultery as a valid reason for divorce two times
Matthew 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
Matthew 19:9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
Noah Davis
But Catholics won't even allow divorce if your wife is impregnated by another man. But your wife can annul the marriage if you don't have the social status she married you for, or she didn't think marriage was meant to be "permanent"
Brody Torres
Good thing we don't have a pope, someone like this cuck could've do a lot of damage in this position.
Lincoln Watson
Yep. I've never been happier not to have a Pope
>Patriarch: we're going to modernize >other patriarchs: ya, nah, don't think so.
Eli Mitchell
I don't think that has anything to do. Although I do believe that Turks have a say in the Patriarchate of Constantinople, thanks to Bartholomew, a proper traitor. But the Russian Church is the biggest Orthodox, and it simply has to have supporters even in Constantinope, who could hopefully help in preparing a Patriarch more favorable to them, after Bartholomew's gone.
Alexander Lewis
But that's not divorce, it's annulment. Very different.
How do you know "sexual immorality" means adultery?
Joshua Wilson
If they had allowed Bartholomew to have it his way, he'd have been the first Orthodox Pope and had turned Orthodoxy into a tool for liberal globalist agenda. Kirill saved us this time.
Jeremiah Walker
hopefully in the near future, we can correct some of the abuses made in the name of the so-called "spirit of vatican 2" so that orthodox patriarchs will submit to bishop of rome. Until then, may God grant you peace
Mason Cox
What else would it mean? Also that is what the Orthodox Church teaches.
Gabriel Perry
>Russian Orthodox church
Just FYI, since Stalin that church has been a tool of the KGB.
There other patriarchs also pulling out of this. But I agree, only Russian Church is actually relevant. Still, cucks in Constantinople would try to push this shit further. I pray that Russian gov will not try to push church into it (first time I think it is good that they are having a really bad relations with West once again.)
Jace Campbell
It certainly can't mean adultery since he expressely says that whoever commits divorce for such "sexual immorality" commits adultery.
Dylan Sanchez
>for such "sexual immorality" *except for such
Aaron Wright
>baptised as a catholic, with first communion >lost faith over time, became atheist >great fondness for byzantine history and the orthodox church >cannot bring myself to believe in any deity so even if I wanted to, it'd be a very fucking conflicting thing >nearest orthodox church happens to be 2 hours away and it'd cost a lot on fares, since I'm unemployed and stuck in an existential mud >wouldn't even know where to start, and not sure my faith would ever be sincere
I don't even know the point of this rant, just had to get it off my chest once I found out an orthodox thread existed.
Christian Torres
>so that orthodox patriarchs will submit to bishop of rome >submitting to the heresy Kek, before revolution it was tool of the emperor (thanks to the Peter the Great), so nothing new there.
Kayden Brown
>But that's not divorce, it's annulment. Very different. Only in semantics, in practical function, saying someone can get an annulment because they didn't know marriage is for a lifetime (as if anyone doesn't know that), it's the same as divorce. Certainly not civil court would grant an annulment on those grounds.
>It certainly can't mean adultery So adultery is not sexual immorality?
Nicholas Rivera
I was in Poland for the weekend, I must say the Polish people seem to be quite devout, I also saw 0 Arabs, it makes me glad to see their country like that, but sad to see Germany falling to Allah
Jaxson Bennett
>. I pray that Russian gov will not try to push church into it The Russian government banned gay parades, swearing on TV and Protestant evangelism, and they're increasingly restricting abortion. they're pushing away from modernism, not toward it.
Mason Nguyen
Poland is Catholic country.
Carson Rodriguez
Not sure I follow your logic. If say a woman cheats on her husband, the husband has not committed adultery, and if he were to divorce her because of her adultery he wouldn't have committed adultery either, since it would be based on the exception Jesus gave.
>whoever commits divorce for such "sexual immorality" commits adultery
Not "for such", "except for". Big difference.
Elijah Allen
Sorry for your hardships. :/ Remember Romans 5:3-4
Take a look at the atheist FAQ linked in the OP, friend.
Samuel Edwards
Still, there is a chance. There is a lot of non-orthodox in Russia, very vocal atheist community - they could do it in order to deal with inner problems.
James Carter
The Bulgar and Georgian Patriarchates are just acting out on Kirill's behalf. The Antioch Patriarchate has its own very valid reasons to pull out.
Constantinople Patriarchate is and should be the first among equals. It's just that Bartholomew is no good. Kirill may or may not want more power for his Patriarchate, but that is besides the point.
The way Bartholomew went and made that final push for the Synod, was like he was trying to force everyone to submit to his rule. He was taking no arguments, he made the decisions and he was just up and ordering the others about. This is not how the "first among equals" should be like. Kirill and the Bulgars who were actually the first to bring it up, were right to defy the wanna-be Pope Bartholomew and pull out.
Joshua Long
You could always try to go once a month user. Try to make it for the major feast days?
No. The USSR replaced to the Orthodox Church with the "Renovated Church", taking away most parishes and giving them to the new church, which allowed bishops to marry and things like that, the clergy that would not accept was imprisoned. But people wouldn't go, and in WWII, when Stalin realized he needed the Church, he released the clergy and have the parishes back; the clergy that cooperated with the "Renovated" Church had to do the penance of apostates to get back in the Orthodox Church.
Tyler Evans
Not unless Putin falls from power.
Asher Davis
tl;dr on the article, please.
Xavier Wright
God it must be really bad there if you think poles are quite devout.
Question to orthodoxs. Is orthodoxy make any distinction beetwen catholicism and protestants, or are catholics are on the same level of heresy as the others?
Aiden Anderson
Annulment simply means that there was never an actual marriage, obviously if there's no full consent there is no marriage.
>Not "for such", "except for" Yes I corrected myself. But it's easy to follow what I'm saying. Christ says that there's some X reason (sexual immorality) that makes divorce acceptable, and outside this reason you commit adultery. So "sexual immorality" can't be the adultery itself. It must be something else.
Isaiah Howard
Catholics are heretics, obviously there are degrees though: Mormons are clearly worse than Baptists, etc. Catholics are better than Protestants generally, but we feel a closer kinship with Protestants who actually push strongly for more conservatism in their countries.
Unlike protestants, Catholics believe in all seven sacraments, so that puts them leagues ahead of the rest on what we can agree on.
Joseph Jenkins
>the pope is a heretic see image here
Jackson Barnes
Will see how this will turn out. Are other remaining patriarchs on the same page with Bartholomew? I'm really suggest you to save some money up and visit Greece.
Austin Clark
...
Wyatt Garcia
What else would it be though, you haven't answered that.
Nolan Hall
"All heretics but heretics in different ways" is the easiest way of understanding it.
Parker Diaz
Cuck in Constantinople was trying to push for more modernized views in orthodox church. Gets BFTO.
William Robinson
Is this a meme? There are literally zero modernist topics on the agenda.
Isaiah Ross
>benedict 16 not being based
Evan Morris
In two words - all heretics but if some particular sort of protestants are more conservative than catholics they considered less heretical and other way around.
Evan Carter
It's a Trad Cath meme.
Landon Bennett
...
Jose Campbell
Thank god.
But does this applies to every church?
And where did that cuck come from?
Jeremiah Thompson
>to prove that this particular heretic is not heretic at all I will bring up citation of another heretic Whatever
Nolan Lee
What should be done to unify Church again? Is there are any room for debate and places where you can fall back a little bit?
Wait you're orthodox too?
Owen James
I think many have their disagreements, even among the Greek Bishops there are many who clearly disagree with Bartholomew's liberal views. But we will have to wait for the Synod to end, to see what did they come up with after all. One thing is for sure, it's not gonna work out for Bartholomew, thanks to Kirill.
Brody Jones
Daily reminder orthocucks lost their capital for muslims ... und orthodox representation >russia >ukraine >belarus >greece >bulgaria >serbia >armenia >ethiophia
sorry but Catholic=western europe, western civilisation, Rome etc Catholic>>>>>>>>>orthodox>protestants
Easton Richardson
No, just informed. I'm Catholic.
Samuel Cooper
>What should be done to unify Church again? There's literally no reason and no way for that happen. Oh wait, there actually is. Convert to Orthodoxy.
Jonathan Reyes
Thank you for your kind response. I will.
It's not the simple matter of going, I'm not even an orthodox or christian, I'd have to deal with larger belief issues before even thinking on how to show up there. I'm also socially retarded, so I'd be too scared of soiling the church floor with spaghetti :^)
It's my lifelong dream to see Greece and the old city of Constantinople. I choke from seeing pictures, knowing myself I'd probably dehydrate crying if I saw it live. I'm actually getting a bit misty-eyed just typing this.
Zachary Smith
What do you guys think of Gnosticism?
William Sanders
>chatocucks
Take your bullshit somwhere else.
Pic very related.
Cameron Nelson
You seem like a well informed guy. I'm struggling beetwen orthodoxy and catholicism but orthodox make some real good arguments against catholicism and the current pope and liberal modernist in western Europe are killing me. Do you have any good arguments why catholicism is better than orthodoxy?
Zachary Scott
When he talks about adultery, he uses the usual word, moicheia, but these "sexual immorality" is actually porneia (yep, just like porn). Porneia it's a stronger word and it literally mean fornication (sex outside marriage, as in ilicit unions, concubinate, or our modern civil unions), and it also can mean any ilicit relationship in a broader perspective, like marriage between brothers, etc.
Whatever it might be, he's talking about relations that are outside marriage (porneia), so how can it be cause of divorce in the first place?
Many English translations with protestant tendency usually translates porneia to "sexual immoralities", with is technically correct, but other translations are context aware and say "unless (its) unlawful". Technically the most objective translation would be fornication, so it can't hardly be considered a cause for divorce more than expressing simply any form of unlawful marriage, because there cannot be fornication inside a valid marriage.
Nathan Smith
I don't think we want to compromise on anything desu. Rome would basically have to unbind all the decisions they've made for the last thousand years, and that's probably not going to happen, so here we are.
Jackson Gray
>accept protestants and Catholics as actual Christians Churches, not heresies >not modernization We don't have anything like pope, so in order to something to be applied to all patriarchies you need to gather up all patriarchs and they should agree on this.
