Face it. DUNE is the superior series from a superior source material with non-manchild fantasy subplots and some pretty down-to-earth corruption arcs.
Basically DUNE is better than Star Wars, Star Trek and lets throw in Fast and Furious for good measure. New movie when?
Dune can't be made into a movie, far too many internal dialogues and far too much exposition for a movie.
Also, the liberal morons at Hollywood would probably butcher it since it's far too right wing for them.
>Using a non blue eyed cat
>implicitly comparing Star Trek to Fast and the Furious
your whole post is retarded so I will assume that the same is true for you. Even though I like Dune.
>muh le white liberal media is suppresses me
>muh safe spaces
DUNE IS BETTER THAN CARS 1 AND 2
I didn't say or imply any of that.
Sup Forums dude haha.
>he doesn't even know anymore
>Dune can't be made into a movie
David Lynch's Dune was pretty great though
lol Dune isn't right-wing, it's just lame.
Its main character is someone who is unbeatable because he sees every move his enemies make in advance. No one can hurt him and then his kid turns into a worm or something.
The first Dune is tedious and with no drama after about 1/3 of the book.
I think its funny you feel the need to project your political left-v-right fantasies into such a turgid sci-fi novel. At least Heinlein is out-and-out bonkers and political with his writing.
Its about maintaining the integrity of the source material, something your ilk cannot conceptualize.
modified
So bad it's so good great, sure.
>Dune isn't right-wing
lel
So you are making a thread about a book series on a Taiwanese pottery board agreeing with that it can't be turned into a movie. For what purpose Cpt. Newfag, for what purpose?
>the integrity of the source material,
>using a cat without blue eyes
>something your ilk cannot
why is OP such a faggot?
this post triggered me. sure herberts prose can be overwrought at times but the thematic elements and the set and setting are top tier. grandest story in sci-fi imo.
dune is not right OR left wing
>newfag
>DUNE is only a book series
>So bad it's so good great, sure.
What did you mean by this?
>3 KB, 125x120
>not a newfag
Dune is normie-proof, it would flop like crazy
>dune is not right OR left wing
I agree. The whole world is set in a rather dark "right-wing" universe but Herberts message doesn't fit into the cartoon that Sup Forumstards imagine being the world.
>dune is not right OR left wing
Its morelike dynastic and that lends it to be right wing. The farthest end of the right wing ends up in a monarchy situation with feudal familial conflicts, whereas very far-left basically is venezuela the planet.
What makes Dune so cool is how it basically abandons the urge of the liberal to force their mania on everyone right down to the character racial choices. Dune is economic and political in nature, but not exactly pushing an ideology.
>dune is not right OR left wing
Dude, you might as well say that the chronicles of narnia isn't a christian series.
I mean it's extremely campy
>non-manchild fantasy
doesn't exist
>ITT Sup Forumstards confusing setting and aesthetics with theme and message again
No, man didn't you know? Its 200andTrump. You are either liberal or not!!
>everyone who disagrees with me is pol
>implying anyone but was making the distinction mentioned
>implying you finished High School
>3 KB, 125x120
>reaching this hard after being eternally btfo
>probably posting on plebbit about how evil nazis are
The brand of right-wing that DUNE wields is special. Liberals tend to thing that the world exists on a spectrum where all right-wing leads to their boogeyman of nazisim.
At first I thought the source material you were talking about was the picture of the cat
Dude, as I've already said, you can go on and think Narnia has nothing to do with christianity, it's not an issue.
>1480049681685.jpg
>probably the oldest pic you saved
>probably posting on plebbit about how evil nazis are
>mentioning your favorite page without knowing that the Trump subreddit is the biggest
>reaching this hard after being eternally btfo
>implying that ever happened
Nice thread you got there faggot.
>tfw recently found out Lynch was considered a possible director for Return of the Jedi
How would he handle the Ewoks?
if you think dune is right-wing you either didnt read the series or misunderstood it
dune is about human systems (economics, religion, society, etc) and an exploration of how they evolve and what, if any, their purpose is. there are plenty of traditionally "right or "left" wing ideas shown in the series but the book doesn't exactly support one method of control over another.
in fact, the entire point of god emperor is to forever make humanity safe from any one system.
there is a difference between telling a story about something and advocating for it m8
dune does not advocate any particular right or left wing ideology
>the fucking lions comes back to life and saves the world
>therefore Narnia is "Christian story"
Pro tip: the world is not a caricature and stories including messages compatible to Christianity doesn't mean it turns them into "Christian stories". The fact alone that Herbert is turbo on ecology/system theory should tell you that his work is a little more complex than your manichaeistic world view.
Is that catnip?
Can cats OD on catnip?
>there is a difference between telling a story about something and advocating for it m8
>dune does not advocate any particular right or left wing ideology
Not that guy but you won't succeed convincing him. He is American and perceives reality as an eternal struggle between Sup Forums and cucks.
...
>Its morelike dynastic and that lends it to be right wing. The farthest end of the right wing ends up in a monarchy situation with feudal familial conflicts, whereas very far-left basically is venezuela the planet.
If you are going to use modern left-v-right to describe what essentially is medieval dynastic politics given a space-worm makeover, I hope it's worth pointing out how inadequate modern political terminology is in describing pre-modern political systems.
Feudal familial conflicts is more a sign of decentralized power, which isn't exactly the modern definition of "far right."
>What makes Dune so cool is how it basically abandons the urge of the liberal to force their mania on everyone right down to the character racial choices. Dune is economic and political in nature, but not exactly pushing an ideology.
You act as though you are in a state of constant persecution or something, what with a literati big brother forcing all authors to do the same thing. I mean shit. Lighten up dude. It's the internet - if SJWs trigger you just turn off the screen.
same advice for you, if you're not same-fagging.
I still don't think this addresses the fact that the story has 0 tension because the protagonist can see indefinitely into the future and is untouchable.
>not every story needs tension!
I, uh, guess not, but it sure makes for a dull, dry viewing/reading.
You would be surprised how many right-wing systems exist. My personal favorite this month is Starship Troopers. The simple act of denying citizenship to residents of a given area is a great filter of the unfit or unintelligent from suffrage. Only those with a stake in or sacrifice to the system will apply the force of voting.
That said, fascism isn't what DUNE describes. DUNE is interesting as it pulls from historical instances of right-wing systems and has both caste and familiar power structures. Unlike Star-Trek settings which ignore both genetic and demographic insurmountable challenges, the more dreary setting of DUNE has no intellectual contradiction as feudalism can appear anywhere in the right condition.
...
/thread
but will there by farting space vampires that can fly?
I didn't say that it is specifically advocating for a certain type of right wing ideology, I said it's a very right wing book, that is it endorses various ideas and values that are right wing.
>The fact alone that Herbert is turbo on ecology/system theory should tell you that his work is a little more complex than your manichaeistic world view.
>accuses someone of manicheism
>implies that if someone cares about ecology he can't possibly be right wing
oh god
Also, did you just unironically say the Chronicles of Narnia aren't christian books? Lewis literally told he saw the novels as an introduction to christianity for kids.
>persecution
Growing bored of propaganda from a unilateral ideology in the media is not about being victimized, that is entirely your outlook after all.
The desire for media that abandons your tired ideology and explores others is what I want.
>all these face praising dune
Herbert raped the series himself and the new books are fan fiction level tiers of cringe. if you have to have more than 2 writers to write a book ya dun goofed
No, my cat doesn't even like catnip
This is true for everything.
>Extended Universe.
YOU WA SHOCK!
i don't agree with the term "endorses" really
the bene gesserit, god-emperor and paul are all monsters of varying degrees. the dune universe makes them necessary (they are from the events in the books trying to work toward the greater good for the most part) perhaps but i don't think herbert would vote for the atreides.
How does any of that correspond to my post?
>right-wing systems
>Feudalism
You are away that the right-left-wing dichotomy makes only sense after the advent of modernity and introduction of the idea that the future is contingent though, right? It makes 0 sense to apply modern political terms to pre-modern political systems and every historian or political philosopher, or any person who understands these concepts, would laugh at you for doing,
>I still don't think this addresses the fact that the story has 0 tension because the protagonist can see indefinitely into the future and is untouchable.
the story has plenty of tension, just not on the personal character level of the atreides superhumans beyond the first book.
the duncan idaho storyline in god-emperor had plenty of tension. or the realization of leto II's golden path...
it's fine if you dislike that kind of style but i wouldn't say it had no tension. it was just for the most part less personal.
Ok then, define "right wing". And define what makes a story right wing.
I am listening. Also to repeat what someone else said
>there is a difference between telling a story about something and advocating for it m8
>dune does not advocate any particular right or left wing ideology
Is that really so hard to comprehend?
>implying Global Warming is not a hoax invented by the Chinese to sell babies
dude
It's bad etiquette to /thread yourself
Very "as a matter of fact" of you.
However, in modern political discourse, monarchies/familial systems do exist in the right.
The problem is that to the liberal the right is only one direction that ends with Nazisim. This is flawed as the Nazis held far too many liberal ideologies that included even feminism. (((Their))) spectrum is broken. When you account for the error in classification then you will arrive at more options that along the way will include feudal systems.
Naturally reverting backwards is not likely, however it doesn't change the fact that in today's context a monarchy/dynasty/familial structured society would be "right wing".
If family = state, and family power = policy, then nationalism is the outcome.
>LOGH is getting a 2017 series
>Dune will get a cinematic universe
>Culture will get a cinematic universe in your lifetime
the age of scifi-kino can't come fast enough.
If I know that you will buy a counterfeit fleshlight that will make your dick fall off but I am unable to warn you in time then my precognition is worthless.
Future-seeing only helps if you can act on your visions in time.
right wing != reactionism
Ok, let's try a few examples in the book Dune, which is what I'm talking about: you have two families opposed to each other, one is the atreides family, the other one is the harkonnen family. The atreides family, the one the hero is from, is deeply immersed in aristocratic values, its origins go back millennia and are rooted in ancient history. The harkonnens, the enemies, acquired power buy buying it, are sexual deviants and sociopaths.
Does this suggest anything to you?
What about seeing religion as a natural necessity?
What about seeing the value and the importance of rituals, codes of honor, and so on?
What about the praise towards people forged in the difficulties of extreme darwinian selection?
What about eugenics?
What about the fact that the one faction that is materialistically oriented more than any other, the space guild, is portrayed in not exactly flattering terms?
What about the author himself and his politics?
This is so politics 201.
>However, in modern political discourse, monarchies/familial systems do exist in the right.
>implying there is any serious debate to re-introduce monarchy anywhere
Maybe in your shitty facebook bubble but in reality this doesn't exist. Maybe as a fiction on the fringes but historically even the turbo-ring-wing ideologies (Franco, Nazis etc.) pretended to be the "true" democracy and entertained a pseudo parliamentarian system. Pic related. Carl Schmitt, who I adore intellectually, would laugh at you shitty reasoning and rightfully so.
>This is flawed as the Nazis held far too many liberal ideologies that included even feminism.
Ok, so you read that on some shitty blog and believed it. Never-mind then, you are literally retarded and/or lack education.
Paul and Leto II could in fact influence their visions (Leto II moreso because he was arguably more powerful). Paul felt he wasn't in control of his precognition because there was too much stuff for even him to keep track of and he didn't want to become inhuman like Leto II to be able to control it.
>This is so politics 201.
Still better than memeing 0.2. I just can't get over the fact that people would look at, let's say Rome or Sparta, and apply their "righ-left-dichotomy" there. It's literally ideology and has nothing to do with history or reality.
>there isn't a serious debate to re-introduce monarchy therefore it's doesn't count as right wing
I guess since there isn't a serious debate to re-indotruce nazism anywhere, it must also not count as right wing.
>rightwing is not reactionism
I agree. It is simply a system of order and in many ways it is a more honest platform as it offers rigid power structures. It can also be very fair as is the case with military-structured fascism.
Right wing is basically not using feelings first. Borders/language/culture is a good example. Its not a reaction, its a foundation. The reaction is only a counter to attacks to the foundation of a right wing society or ideology.
>Dune can't be made into a movie, far too many internal dialogues and far too much exposition for a movie.
Just like Game of Thrones, right?
Maybe, just maybe, they're not using right wing in the sense of parliamentary politics, but as an indication of a certain set of values.
Most of those positions are simply explored and not presented as an objectively good or evil thing without exception.
God-Emperor explains and turns a lot of the supposed 'message' of the first Dune book on it's head. Frank Herbert himself may certainly have held some right-wing views but I still don't think Dune can be pigeon-holed as a right-wing book.
Nazism is not a pro-modern political system. It doesn't fall into the same category as Feudalism which is my whole point.
Values are also historically contingent. This is history 201.
I don't like this rhetoric, as if being "good", by modern, knowledgeable and statistically relevant standards, and having sustainable ideologies belongs to ANYONE but the human, the one that evolved from using rocks.
Concepts don't -own- concepts as humans do, so pls, gtfo with your divisive shit. Dune is also about exclusivity breeding hostility and weakness.
You can be a right wing sexual deviant. Eugenics is good, it helps children that will be born in the future. Being materialistic sounds like market-orientation. Buying power is still having power, but the question is how their society is structured.
If I bought my way into power and enforced a fascist system for those under me I would still be right wing. If I had 80 fetishes and spent all day in my office fapping to each one of them, but still had a fascist society below me, I would still be right wing. I would however be inferior to a right winger of honor and less degeneracy.
If I told everyone they were equal and took wages from the hard working to give to the lazy then I would be a left winger that bought a formerly right wing society. It doesn't matter who the harkonnens are, it matters what their policies are.
Eugenics is good, degeneracy is bad, religion promotes order and is therefore good, and evolution being expedited is of course good.
>not presented as an objectively good or evil thing without exception
Yeah, because Herbert didn't think hammering the point into the reader's head is a good thing, thankfully. But he isn't just exploring them, he is clearly putting some of them on one side, which is presented positvely, and the others on the opposite side, which is presented negatively.
You literally sound like a 20 years old student of feminist theory who says "x is a social construct" as if it's something interesting. Values are historically contingent from a historical point of view, yes, and? You can still group them together through commonalities they share.
This. DUNE is partially an allegory for the effect of a powerful society driving substance on the market.
Imagine if spice = oil and they are on the planet Iraq. The evolution of society is expedited by oil, oil also makes space travel possible and those that own oil can see the future as they basically control it. Spice represents a form of energy, today it may be close to oil, tomorrow it may be negative particles that allow more energy for the buck.
Dude, you're not even contradicting me.
>I would however be inferior to a right winger of honor and less degeneracy.
That's the point.
>sounds like market-orientation
Sounds like basically being debased (see: libertarians).
jesus christ the lens thru which you are coming to these conclusions is so fucking contemporary it's insane, you are possibly the proto-typical 2016 man.
>contradicting
Why did you assume I am arguing? I am furthering the discussion. Not everything is an argument.
Sorry, I thought you were one of the other guys.
Almost but I am actually a PhD student of history that learned in his first seminar on Augustus that it is literally a waste of time to transpose modern vocabulary onto political situations 2000 years ago.
> Values are historically contingent from a historical point of view, yes, and? You can still group them together through commonalities they share.
So your point is what? That monarchy, Nazism and feudalism deny the basic equality of all men and should be described with the same terms ("right-wing")? What exactly would be the gain? Especially given that you leave out a number of traits they don't share at all (the role of the state (which didn't exist), the role of religion, the ubiquitous role of violence in pre-modern society, the absence of free market etc.). Also the Roman Republic also denied the equality of men. So the Roman Republic was right-wing too? Then again there was some voting and debating going on sooo maybe it's more left-wing?
Nah. I won't accept it from the Marxist side that see classes everywhere and I won't except it from a romanticizing right side either.
>the proto-typical 2016 man.
I believe that Rae is a Mary Sue. Therefore I fail your criteria. The 2016 man is embodied by an acceptance of the impossible and a rejection of reality. The ideology above reality, and only subversion of the alternative views. The 2017 man should start to become conflicted by the insanity of contradictory terms such as "racist fact" or "fake news" and begin to question things. That man is not you.
>student of history
Are you going to teach us how evil the Nazis were in WW2?
>So your point is what?
My point is that if you use right wing/left wing as a political term it of course falls apart if you apply it to pre-modern times. If you use it as a way to refer to a certain set of values, say preferring equality to inequality, hierarchy-no hierarchy, it does make sense.
Of course you get a lot stuff that isn't that close to each other inside those groups, especially inside the "right-wing" category, but so what, it's a kind of taxonomy, among vertebrates there's an incredible amount of genetic and anatomo-physiological differences, does that mean it's not valid to set them apart from invertebrates?
Good luck for you phd btw
Forgot this one as an example
>Roman Republic was right-wing too?
Not politicall since it doesn't make sense, but let's take Cicero. Would a man living today who agrees with Cicero on the values that he talked about in his various works like de natura deorum or de officis and so on more likely be a right winger or a left winger?
>liberals wanting to call pre-historic societies not right-wing as to deny their past effectiveness
What IQ is the target audience for such obvious attempts? Of course cultural values will change throughout history, but operationally you can have a right-wing caveman society if they follow some basic procedures.
That depends on the structure.
The left puts identity of the leader into a weird category of importance. The operation, laws, and order, of a society tells you exactly where it stands.
>My point is that if you use right wing/left wing as a political term it of course falls apart if you apply it to pre-modern times.
That's all I wanted to express, really.
>If you use it as a way to refer to a certain set of values, say preferring equality to inequality, hierarchy-no hierarchy, it does make sense.
Yes, maybe but ITT no one tried to do that analyzing Dune. Which is what I was hoping for.
>Good luck for you phd btw
Thanks bruh. Sleep tight.
Here is your (you). Also not my field of study.
Walk without rhythm, and it won't attract the worm
>field of study.
>studying history at all in 2017
The Racism of Thatcher is probably a mandatory course at this point.
You've been brainwashed by the same anti-Nazi Jew propaganda the west has been pushing for the past 70 years.
>the basic equality of all men
Men aren't equal. That's just a western lie designed to play on emotions and stir up the idiots.
Is a 5 foot man an equal to a 7 foot man on a basketball court? FUCK no. Is the retard an equal to the normal? No. Is the man trained in a profession equal to the untrained man? No. Is a modernized culture of men equal to men that still exist in a stone age culture? No.
Equality is a fucking lie.
Planet of the Apes is the best scifi movie franchise and it was always my Star Wars/Star Trek equivalent.
I dont get why more people didnt latch on to the series
YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH
kek
Actually did have a modern British history course that was 60 percent Thatcher was ebil.
ITT: People who don't understand the meaning of the Golden Path