Skin me alive

The problem with Moffat is that he becomes a fanboy of his own work. It's not about clever writing or characters - it's about talking quickly and catch phrases and DON'T FORGET THE HAT, THE FANS LOVE THE HAT *foams at the mouth*.

Take Abominable Bride: I was all on board for a throw away episode if it meant seeing Victorian London and all the characters play dress up. Why not? Could be fun. But guess what? There IS NO solution to the mystery. Because it's all a DREEEEAM - oooooooh.

By having it all be a dream it means they can write whatever they want and not worry about it making ANY sense. Like, is it just me or was the suffragettes cult he dumbest 'reveal' in television history?

Example: They take a simple criminal mastermind like Moriarty and turn him into a gun licking psychopath. HE SUCKS ON HIS GUN ON HIS KNEES IN FRONT OF SHERLOCK - WHY? To make some fangirls (and Moffat) wet - that's why.

Moriarty was a creep AND crazy but he was ALSO smart. They turned him into a fucking parody of the character.

THEN we get The Six Thatchers. And you know what? I'm GLAD Mary is dead. I HATE Mary. I hate that she's a fucking super spy. I hate that she completely interrupts a PERFECT rapport between Cucumbersnatch and Dildo Baggins.

But the idiocy of the car seat crap and the literal Margaret Thatcher busts make me puke a little in my mouth.

Moffat is suffering from George Lucas syndrome. No one is telling him NO and he's jizzing out whatever he wants on screen and getting pats on the back for it because 'THE GAME IS ON, he said THE GAME IS ON, SQUEEEE'.

Why must Moffat destroy the things I love? First Doctor Who and now this. There are so many things wrong with Season 4 so far I can't fit it all in one post. Just kill me instead. It'll be less painful.

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Nobody should ever have watched Sherlock. This is 'I watch it because its there' lonely fanboy/fangirl culture. Anyone who watches it has no right to complain, it was shit from jump.

I liked a Lady in Pink. Sherlock explained his reasoning for everything, all the characters and the settings were presented well and I liked the mystery. I wouldn't have guessed who the murderer was but all the information was there for the audience to solve it themselves.

There was usually something good in even the worst episodes that made them enjoyable. There was a bit of cringe and things that didn't make sense but enough good that I could sit through it.

But S4 is just SO bad I can't look at it without my eyes melting 'Ark of the Covenant' style.

I wouldn't say that. I've been a big Sherlock Holmes Fan for ages. Ever since I listened to it on XM radio I've been obsessed with Old Time Radio Plays from the 50s and so on.

I'd say my favorite Sherlock is the 40's/50s and then Jeremy Brett. Of course I like Robert Downy Jr. but then again those are just the movies, not that big a deal.

I wouldn't call it "fanboying" I would call it keeping with your favorite stories. Consider the following:
I've been a big DC comics fan since I was a child and I've seen most DC films. Some are better than others and I will admit when something is awful. I already knew that Mary was going to die due to Mofatt being a fanboy himself. That's why I wasn't surprised when she got shot. If anything I thought the lady was going to kill herself actually. But one way or another, she had to die if this was going to be written well

>Lady in Scarlet
You've never read Sherlock Holmes or even anything before have you? If you did, you'd know all the cases Moffat is just taking the old cases and adding to them, that's literally it. He's modernizing them. Literally that's it. If you want the original, I'll grab you a link from Audiobookbay.me or show you where to look on Archive.org

Thanks. I have read several of the original stories including a Lady in Scarlett. I know A Lady in Pink is an adaption. I just thought it was a good adaption, that's all, compared to something like The 6 Thatchers.

I'll be honest, I don't remember that case, I may have to go find it. I'm sure it's in Radio Play form

OP you are extremely hard to please. you say that Moffat is a fanboy when you're over here taking the show apart. Either get over it or write him an email. You can't change shit so stop complaining like a damn child you sound like.

Then again, this is Sup Forums, I don't expect a real conversation from 1/2 the idiots here.

>Moffat is a fanboy when you're over here taking the show apart

criticising a bad adaption ≠ making a bad adaption.

Moffat is a hack ponce who only has a job because everything he touches makes a fuckhuge amount of money in merch sales for the BBC.

I don't think I'm hard to please. Sherlock and Watson solving cases. Have a good mystery. Heck, even the Hardy Boys could do that.

>HE SUCKS ON HIS GUN ON HIS KNEES IN FRONT OF SHERLOCK - WHY? To make some fangirls (and Moffat) wet - that's why.

Because the series is about Sherlock being afraid of emotion, intimacy and sexuality. Moriarty represents this; he's portrayed as an over the top scary insane faggot for a reason. The mysteries are shit because yes, the writing is truly amateur and shitty--but also because the writers consider the mystery element to be tangential and irrelevant to their master plan: fixing 'The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes' to be closer to Billy Wilder's blatant intention: to demonstrate that Holmes is a tragic figure tortured by homolust, but to go beyond what Wilder did and also explore a different ending.

I'm not saying whether this is good or bad (it's badly done, though, certainly), just that this is their plan.

I do generally agree with OP's statements though from a writing standpoint. It's some badly mangled shit.

I agree about Sherlock being afraid of emotion and growing as a character in the series. But wasn't that the whole Irene Adler arc? She was a character that made jabs at his 'inexperience' and it was neat to see him vulnerable and more human. Moriarty was just some criminal consultant. Or at least he used to be. I wouldn't mind or care if Sherlock was gay, but it's been an in-joke since ep one that he isn't so I don't think that's what Moffat was going for.

Sherlock is the only think I'm aware of by him. Maybe it's cause I like Cumberbatch, I dunno

What is it about Dr Who you didn't like I've not seen it yet. Just been broke

Didn't Gatiss write the last one?

Well, Moffat and company tend to be a bunch of smug memesters who lie and deflect to play games with the fans (not trying to hate but that's how they do). So I would take much of what he and Gatiss say with a grain of salt until the show is done with.

The Irene Adler arc is definitely key in their overall plan of their characterization of Sherlock (in that same vid I screenshotted, they ask what their best writing of their career is and Moffat says "A Scandal in Belgravia", the Irene Adler episode which not only obviously draws from the original material but also paraphrases many lines and scenes from The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes)...I wish they would make more callbacks to the Adler plot because its a hell of alot better written than all this Mary shit. I think they just allowed too much slack in what would have been a pretty good series if they had kept the story very tight, but as is said in OP, they've become fanboys of their own work allowing alot of flanderization and general off topic random half-baked bullshit to happen.

The fact that they're still stressing the importance of Moriarty after all this time when it feels totally forced and ridiculous and sloppy...To me that's just a sign of how important they intended for his persona to be in Sherlock's mental landscape. I have no idea how they'll be digging themselves out of the numerous holes they've put themselves into after trying to make this into a secret agent spy show but in the end I think that's still what they are trying to do with Moriarty's character--use him to represent the fear of self in Sherlock's psyche. (And Adler was also another 'self' of Sherlock--a sexual side that isn't a flamboyant, evil gun licking freak but a mental equal who he admires but doesn't fully understand--If you ask me)

I haven't watched the old eps since they aired and I havent read the stories for a few years either so I am pretty damn rusty on alot of this desu.

I'm a plebe and just watched low resolution streams of it.

I disliked a lot of self-wanking Moffat did. A lot of exaggerated multi-season long plots that don't make sense and making the Doctor god tier. Some intolerable companion actors too (Martha is the worst - wait, I take it back, Clara is the worst) that aren't well rounded. Donna is the best (because she's the ONLY one who doesn't fall in love with him)

I'd say Tennant's episodes are 80 percent great. He carries a lot of it and makes it fun to watch even with bad effects. You can watch a lot going his episodes blind with no context and still enjoy them. My favourites are: Silence in the Library, Water on Mars, Fires of Pompeii, Midnight (which is a fantastically written bottle episode because it takes place in basically one room), 42 and The Girl in the Fireplace. There's more but those are a few I can think of.

All the cool scifi stuff with moral choices and neat aliens are great. Kinda like NextGen but sillier.

But as the series goes on ideas start running out and it gets worse and worse. Capaldi could've been a great Doctor but he has nothing to work with.

I still recommend it from where Tennant jumps in. Matt Smith's episodes are about 50/50 whether you'll hit a good one or not, depending on who wrote it.

And I hate Clara so much I can't genuinely recommend Capaldi's episodes until they kill her off.

I feel like this is an accurate post and good criticism

youtube.com/watch?v=naXEF8gr7EU

Just gonna leave this here

Yeah. I see your point. Using Moriarty has some devil on his shoulder idea or even just inner turmoil could've been cool, but it comes off as ridiculous to me. I agree that it's forced.

You know what could have been cool? Sherlock in prison. He shoots that guy and goes to jail, and seeing him interact with convicts and outsmart them and maybe solve some prison case whIle planning an escape could've been neat. Obviously he'd get away with it but it would have been less jarring than 'Moriarty is back and the entire government is incompetent - only you can stop him' (when it wasn't confirmed if he was even back or not, anyone could've made that message and put it on television).

I just think the mind palace thing is overused in general. The episode where he was shot and he used it to make crucial decisions before hitting the floor was a neat visual. But now it's a 'thing.'

That seriously made me laugh.

That whole part where they all just hung out on that plane and waited while he "goes to his mind palace" was one of the stupidest and cringiest things I've ever seen on broadcast television.

In fact, that other actors saying the words "mind palace" with a straight face just felt embarrassing to watch.

>There IS NO solution to the mystery. Because it's all a DREEEEAM - oooooooh.

There was a solution to the mystery, but all of the plotholes (like the wife recruiting Sherlock to protect her husband from herself) were due to being a DREEEEAM, which wasn't fair.

Yeah. I guess 'the suffragetes did it' was a solution, technically. But in the thinnest way possible. Not even taking into account the historical inaccuracy of it - I also hated how Sherlock presented it as if the women deserved sympathy and were right to murder men for revenge and for the 'cause'. Like, how is this helping your movement? It felt like BBC moral meddling to me.

>the suffragettes
dey be strong independunt wimminz who don' need no man.

>It's his mind palace, a memory technique!

>Hmmmnyesss I am familiar with over 700 methods of using one's mind palace to achieve feats of memory, and that's just with my bare hands, but this is not one of them!

I noticed that too. How they were all hunched over him and staring at him and doing nothing useful at all. Also, when did he take drugs? Where are his drugs? Didn't the episode take place five minutes after the end of the last season? How did he have time to take a list worthy amount of drugs while under 'arrest'.

Yeah. Just like Mary. She's a strong independant...oh, killed by an old lady, whoops.

Yeah, the suffragettes being the culprits was not a terrible idea all in itself, I could even see an ending like that turn up in an ACD story, but the DREEEAM shit made it terrible (and even THAT element could have been done interestingly in the right hands), and what you're saying about how they suddenly forced this sympathy plea to the audience about their oppression was complete cringe. I'd probably be considered an SJW by many here but that shit was just too forced and poorly written to be excusable. They were a fucking murder cult. The fact that there seemed to be some sympathy for them could have been turned into an interesting point since all of it was occuring in Sherlock's mind, which would reveal something about his morality/'sociopathy', but it really just did feel like "feel sad 4 wimmenz bcuz history n stuff", revealing nothing valuable about any of the characters. Awful.

You're right. It could've been interesting in a different context. Like Sherlock siding with a cult or a murderer because logic or something. Then Watson would be all 'no, you can't agree with a killer, it isn't right' and Sherlock would say 'why not?' and bring up John's time in the military as an example of siding with someone who's killed etc. It could have been a neat 'what's stopping Sherlock from being a criminal' idea. But we get Moffat's notes scrambled in a blender and tossed at the wall hoping something will stick instead.

How would you guys do a Holmes update?

Like I mentioned before, I'd have Sherlock in prison. It'd be a fun episode and there's lots you can do with it. And maybe the overall arc is him running from the law. Or maybe have him agree to go undercover, kinda like the whole Russia thing that was brushed over, in order to gain a pardon. You could introduce a new villain for the season that Sherlock has to pretend to work with. That's all based on what was previously set up though. I'd never have introduced Mary in the first place. I wouldn't have done the Moriarty arc so soon and I'd stick to adapting original Doyle mysteries in modern world with maybe an overall mystery hidden throughout the season. The original idea was charming.