Vietnam War

Always thought that people going on about muh K/D ratio and how US didn't lose in Vietnam because of it had some kind of point to them but then I checked Wikipedia and saw the truth: South and its allies had 480 000 - 807 000 killed and 1 340 000 wounded while commies 510 000 - 1 166 000 killed and 600 000 wounded. Seems like K/D ratio isn't very lopsided and desu should be worse for the commies when taking to account that one side was a superpower with superiour technology. Why are people always going on about K/D ratio in Vietnam War when reality paints a very different picture?

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Guess who won.

these guys

Foiled by Sweden again, damn it!

>Sweden
What, wait, what?

American imperialism had to be crushed! The righteous cause of the legitimate Viietnamese state was plain to see.

Just like the ongoing war in Afghanistan. Total Afghan government + coalition losses actually almost the same as Taliban.

What a fucking stupid picture
1) it wasn't the entire US Army
2) it wasn't just a few hundred vietnamese farmers with outdated weapons
This is taking so little into account I hope no one posts it unironically

Never mind, i just read that our president compare a bombing incident with a concentration camp.
Probably the jews ordered you to do this.

This, once you read about it you realize that America was winning the war in Vietnam but losing it at home.

Guess who won.

It was all your fault, you know. If France hadn't been so gung ho about preserving imperialism you could have given Vietnam independance, and two wars + millions of deaths could have been avoided.

vietnam really had it the hard way, they only wanted independence from france, france brutalized them for a while since the end of the ww2, vietnam asked usa to help but usa said them to fuck themselves because france was more important than some jungle nigs and only then they asked the commies for help and got it

uh??
Americans went in Vietnam on their own, I have no idea why they came. We're not responsible for their war

We showed up because the UN partitioned Vietnam along North-South lines like in Korea and the North wasn't respecting those lines and the North happened to be commie.

Oh ok. So that has no relation with the Indochina War then

>A few hundred farmers
What a bullshit meme this is. Literally the entire country was fighting. The Americans were HEAVILY outnumbered.

the indochina war was the reason why they became communist, you dummy

One of the main reasons we lost was because we used a "Search and Destroy" method. The US would search for the VC or NVA and, eliminate them, then leave. They didn't take the ground they gained. That and the public opinion of the war was terrible. Lack of support from home was another large factor.

lol no

>So that has no relation with the Indochina War then

Why do you think it was partitioned in the first place?

Your are wrong on the North Vietnamese side. Communists are notorious for not keeping track of how many men they lost, take a look at the Soviet Union during World War II, the vast majority of sources we get to work from are German.

How do you keep track of peasant farmers rapidly mobilized then thrown into massive bombing campaigns and machine gun fire to die in droves?

Protip, you don't.

Father Cold

SOME FOLKS ARE BORN

>after debating the possibility of US intervention in Indochina to prop up the faltering French military effort, President Eisenhower was given a rundown of the estimated cost and manpower needed, somewhere between 500,000 and a million men, which would require a much more extensive military draft than Korea, on top of the enormous sum of money needed for infrastructure. The president was said to have winced slightly.

Lesson learned--a career military officer (Eisenhower) probably knows more about war than a career politician (LBJ).

It had nothing to do with the military or fighting, the war was "lost" because it was impossible to support the fragile South Vietnamese government without degrading into a second Korean War. There's a reason it hasn't actually ended yet.

DELET DIS

Kennedy had a colossal mistake by having the CIA depose Diem, he was tough, didn't take bullshit from the Vietcong, and had credentials as a patriot during the war of independence against France. The guys who came after him were utterly corrupt, incompetent, and little more than paid employees of the US State Department.

I've met many Vietnam vets (some were my professors) and they all mentioned how god awful it was.

>110 degrees
>100% humidity
>All while wearing heavy gear and weapons
>Literally 24/7 mosquito bites
>Can't really ever sleep because of constant VC raids
>Foilage and forest so deep you literally can't see anything
>VC know the terrain/have tunnels/etc

All that being said the US had an excellent KD ratio. We were never losing, it was public opinion that ruined it for us. The Tet Offensive for example was not successful strategically and it cost a metric fuckton of VC lives but it was shown on television and the media spun it as some horrific devastating loss.

It was such a waste of a war, young American boys died for nothing.

STrange how Russians almost always run into retards while facing the west who defeat themselves by not applying common (cold winters) or trivial (track gauge) knowledge.

It’s like westerners really think Russians are bunch of stupid subhuman apes that can be easily zergrushed.

Bizarrely enough, the Johnson administration reasoned that Vietnam was a better place to fight in than Korea because it would be like a tropical vacation and no -10F winters.

I would preffer mosquito bite to frostbite desu

bs
firstly you imagine it like all "communists" share a non-ideology related trait in some mystical way, also not a pleasant trait that is nice to ascribe to your enemy
secondly you make a claim that soviet union didn't properly track its losses when it actually did and the archives nowadays are open, if you prefer to use german sources instead it says of nothing but a cold war era bias on your side
i also will be silent how americans ignore any sources against their own and do any kind of trick to blow up their numbers, the only american data to be trusted it is of their own losses but never of their enemies and never any kind of ratio

Soldiers often ended up rubbing the local population the wrong way by actions like commandeering Buddhist shrines as sleeping quarters and leaving obscene graffiti on the walls or stacks of Playboys behind.

We killed 3 million of them and lost 40,000.

>US had an excellent KD ratio
>Civilian deaths
>Propaganda
When presidents lie to make a war.

Take account for your allies loss too, will you? Can't you do the basic math? Or read the simple plain text in OP post? American are really dumb.

no need to reply to him, he's the typical american CoD score autism post.

3 million

40,000

Rule 2.

losing Saigon means the US lost no matter how many people were killed imo

It's just their way of making them feel better. War is perspective and the narrative they like to run in the event of not winning is 'at least our k/d was higher' which is pointless because if you don't win the objective your lives are worthless fodder.

3,000,000
40,000

Not to mention you didn't even come 500 miles from our coast lol

People forget that the antiwar movement was never more than a relative minority of Americans including a lot of upper middle class college students who were safe from the draft (most conscripts were from the lower classes of society)--the Tet Offensive if anything increased calls for an invasion of North Vietnam. The Vietnam draft took fewer men than Korea and also there were no cutbacks in production of consumer goods--although a sizable chunk of American manufacturing went to support the war effort, imports from (especially) Japan made up for the shortfall; if anything the Japanese profited immensely from the Vietnam conflict.

are you honestly this autistic or willingly ignorant? do you not read when you post?

Lets be fair here

Even if I were to take your numbers at face value, 3 million lives lost to unify the country and expel the Americans is still better then losing 40,000 people for no fucking reason at all.

40,000

3 million

One of these numbers is bigger than the other

yeah you're not getting it. i'd first recommend you use wikipedia.

you might be a bit too dumb to contextualize numbers and didn't pass remedial math though.

And also Singapore, Thailand, Taiwan, Korea,... who are profit from Vietnam War. They rich when my countryman bleed to death. This is why I still hold some grudge about those countries.

Why would we take into account our allies? South Vietnam's military was godawful, an utter joke, not really our fault.

How do most Vietnamese feel about the war/Americans in general?

mate you are really this dumb. i feel sorry for you, that you need to speak and assume things without evidence or justification, it won't help you in actual real life.

They don't care especially not younger people and most just want American money/weapons to fight China or something.

They lost cuz they couldn't into jungle warfare.

Are you a buttblasted Viet in Canada or something?

Are you Vietnamese? Do you have first hand experience with Vietnamese people's opinions on the war? Why did you answer my question?

nah, i study history and focused in cold war courses.

i'm just triggered by ignorance about what i study.

The US had to put extensive pressure on its allies to cease business and trade contacts with Hanoi, most had stopped by mid-1965 but Britain never did. At one point, North Vietnam was doing more trade and business with Western Europe and Japan than the Soviet Union and China.

Chao dong chi, sau gio nai, ong chua ngu the?
Just ignore him. He underage or he really retard

I've been on Sup Forums longer than you have and have read more than enough Asia threads. They hate China. A lot. But then every cunt there hates China and wants American money/weapons.

>call South Vietnamese troops awful, because they were and American troops needed to clean up their mess a million times
>get unreasonably butthurt and start throwing personal insults

Did I strike a nerve my little zipperhead?

Most Vietnamese are, right now poor so they aren't really hold some grudge about it. Positive looking towards future in short.

I think it will change one we're rich. What goes around comes around and so it it time to pay your debts, in blood. You too, America, I personally hope you one day see your countryman die, your land ravaged by bomb, young orphan kids, old parents visit graveyard of their childs. So you could treasure peace and stop mess around world affairs.

I don't think you understand that 40,000 Americans died and 3,000,000 Vietnamese died as well as had their entire country absolutely bombed to shit while little Sally and Sam had milkshakes and played tag here

nah you don't understand that there's no way to fucking assess anything by a single adjective and assume things from there. allies to the US were good and bad in many contexts but labelling them as "they are bad, they did nothing therefore we did everything" is just the height of ignorance.

i understand you are a bit too slow to learn complex subjects and concepts, but just assuming simple things beyond your understanding is a bad habit to have.

do you think all wars is a capture the flag gamemode from your FPS games mate?

you absolutely do not understand how complex war and war aims are and aren't a simple "invade, don't get invaded and you win".

i get that you aren't a bright fellow and i don't enjoy arguing with children.

>Vietnamese farmers with outdated weapons meme

they also had regular army units, and they were armed with pretty modern weapons from Russia, AK47 certainly wasn't an outdated weapon in those days

Sally and sams dad never made it back, or has such horrifying PTSD he became a drug addict. Wars not that simple man. I mean what did he die for? To kill a bunch of jungle people? What was his purpose for? Why did he give up his future in safe America to fight someone else's war?

40,000 Americans during for no reason at all is depressing. Had 40,000 Americans died to unify Vietnam under democracy, then it would've been worth it. But war is always a gamble, and America lost that time.

>Obama lifts arms embargo on Vietnam in '15
>hordes of assblasted baby boomers on news site comment sections
Do these people understand anything about modern geopolitics and helping contain Chinese expansionism or did their brains freeze in 1971?

>What goes around comes around and so it it time to pay your debts, in blood
Probably never going to happen. The US is effectively immune from invasion from the coasts. Even if our navy were significantly weakened, you'd still have to make an amphibious landing on some of the most naturally well-protected coastline in the world. In the worst case, we drop mines in the barrier islands out in the Atlantic and ships wouldn't be able to approach.

No ships = incredibly limited air potential, so bombings would be long, difficult, and dangerous. Not ideal for being able to inflict massive damage on the heartland.

The US is never going to face the kind of wanton annihilation Vietnam has been subjected to, because geography works in the US's favor. Deal with it.

Asians are clearly better at math than Americans.

>We killed 3 million of them and lost 40,000.

What, no you didn't. South and its allies killed 510 - 1 166 000 enemies and North and its allies killed 480 000 - 807 000 enemies.

Are you retarded? Honest question

I'm retarded for correcting false information?

I don't know what they think of us but Vietnamese immigrants are my favorite. Very hard workers and a lot of the businesses they open where I live are French bakeries where they make better shit than the actual French-descendant people in the area.

Including fusion like Vietnamese po' boys.
Plus they're typically family owned so the qt daughters run the cash registers. 10/10

Almost as embarassing as winter war or soviet-afghan war. 9/10

What's the story behind this?

>lose war
>b-b-but muh k/d ratio
pathetic

It literally reads on the pic, vanya

Guess who won

The Soviet Union.

Go take a look at how many people your country lost during world war II. Go ahead, the numbers are sporadic, some sources put the number around 10 millions while others put it closer to 20 million. I mean Jesus christ, we are talking about a 10 million souls here.

The Vietnamese did the same thing, they did not keep track of their loses and OPs numbers are completely false.

Communist countries are trash.

>flag.

Worthless country. Americas hat.

a-at least we humiliated them.. r-r-right??

We lost. But we looked really cool

Just like the Germans. Bad ass dudes, fighting four world superpowers on three fronts.

Canada's pants. What's your argument burger?

P O L A N D mentioned

Who would win?
Mighty german blitzkrieg vs few brave hussars on their trusty steeds?

Casualties during American and Canadian/British North American battles:

Battle of Québec
>USA: 50
>British NA: 5
War of 1812
>USA: 2,200
>British NA: 1,660
Fenian Raids
>USA: 14
>Canada: 22
Operation Cottage
>USA: 28
>Canada: 4

>Germany

This is top banter

>Sweden
Of course.

>What are civilian casualties

Holy shit how fucking retarded are you? Soviet civilians were killed en masse by the Nazis and make up the VAST majority of casualties

>Starts a war against every major world power
>Loses badly and gets cucked out of existence for 50 years
>Praised by neckbeards in 2017

What a world

The reason why the US quit the war wasn't the K/D ratio Pekka.

>Loses badly

You stupidity is astounding. Tell that to France, tell that to Poland, tell that to Norway, tell that to Yugoslavia, tell that to Greece, tell that to the entire British expeditionary force wiped out in a rapid 6 week campaign along with the entire country of France. Shut up bitch.

Read a fucking book you dumb piece of shit.

They lost badly. Early successes came from their largely surprise and sometimes illegal rearmament, much of it allowed by the magnanmity of their betters, and because civilsed people who care about human rights were still trying to rebuild and make sense of the first world war rather than start another one.

Read a fucking book you dumb piece of shit

People always say "lost the war at home" , but most people at the time we're asking why the fuck is our government pooring money into this massive cluster fuck like Iraq and Afghanistan... Shit... We could have had free internet, healthcare and fried chicken for everyone instead of paying for those stupid wars.

youtu.be/tSEtqi1jcs8
PREPARE FOR ATTACK, YOU'LL DIE FOR A COUNTRY THAT TURNED ITS BACK
NO SALUTE FROM YOUR TOWN, YOU WON'T BE REMEMBERED WHEN YOU'RE GUNNED DOWN
I like this song, it fits this thread

No they did not lose badly you dumb ass.

They wiped out French and English resistance on mainland Europe in a rapid 6 week campaign. One of the most impressive modern military victories to date. Not to mention the fact that for every one German soldier that died, 2-3 allied soldiers would die. They revolutionized modern warfare, conducted the largest encirclement operations of all time and were the first to invade a country from the air (Norway). Not a single country could defeat them 1v1, they all had to unite against them.

Get educated.

>This is why I still hold some grudge about those countries.
So why did you raid us?
We fed over 2million refugees over the entire war and took in refugees from Pol Pot's genocide.