>Economy goes south >You can't get a job >You demonstrate to Centrelink that you're trying, but can't find work >Centrelink pays you a meagre amount while you're able to meet their criteria >You fall into poverty, become unemployable, are more likely to turn to crime, etc. >When the economy picks up again, you might get a job, but you might not >Unemployment is a systemic failure, not a personal choice, but you will be judged as if it were your choice
This is how it should work:
>Economy goes south >You can't get a job in the private sector or traditional public sector >You go to the Job Guarantee agency (which replaces most of Centrelink's function, along with all the private jobseeker agencies that exist right now) and tell them that you want a job >Job Guarantee agency arranges a minimum wage job for you, working for your local council >You earn a regular income and maintain some structure in your life >When the economy picks up again, you might get a private sector job or you might not; either way you remain constantly employed >Unemployment becomes a personal choice, not a systemic failure
if the economy has gone south, where exactly is this tax payer funded job? Oh yeah, it doesn't exist. If it did the economy would be, you know, down south. Heard of volunteering? You'll still get bennies doing that but not enough for you, right?
Daniel Davis
The money that is spend on welfare programs right now
Jaxon Lee
Thanks for the daily dose doc
Owen Walker
So the truth finally comes out: Paul Krugman was an Australian all along.
Easton Reed
Paying for it is the main issue.
Taking it out of the equation doesn't make any sense.
Adam Cook
No, net public spending rises in a downturn because more people are on welfare and fewer people are in the higher tax brackets.
What is currently done as volunteer work is a great example of the kind of work a job guarantee could do.
Jaxon Ross
>What is currently done as volunteer work is a great example of the kind of work a job guarantee could do.
Volunteer work operates on not having to pay the person because it can't be afforded.
Hints in the name.
Jackson Walker
Job guarentee is m'kay. I prefer UBI though, perhaps with public work projects always employing that you can work long or short term to compliment your UBI.
It wouldn't cost that much more than the current system, especially if done properly, with the guarneteed job doing essential shit that has to be paid for anyway.
Thomas Taylor
Yeah, most people will agree that it's better to spend the money to employ people than to give it away for free.
>le krugman meme Fun fact: when you hear a new economic idea, it doesn't necessarily come from Krugman. In fact it probably doesn't come from Krugman because Krugman is an idiot.
Paying for it is the easy part. Do it the same way as a national government pays for anything: spend the money.
Benjamin James
The one inherent flaw to that is, for an economy to function, there always needs to be unemployed people.
Kayden Bailey
>Paying for it is the easy part. Do it the same way as a national government pays for anything: spend the money.
Wow, its just so simple user
Why didn't I think of that
Should follow Greece's example and just give everyone public sector jobs.
Christian Kelly
> I prefer UBI though
To expand on this, Job Guarantee scheme reeks a bit like gommunism to me, especially as modern day crypto-commies (MMT proponents) endorse it. It is a bit authoritarian and I feel it would stifle creativity.
Some unemployment serves a purpose too in capitalist society.
Landon Lee
The Australian or British government can afford whatever is for sale in Australian Dollars or British Pounds, including labour. Try again.
I agree, the current system relies on a buffer stock of unemployed labour that the private sector can draw from.
What I'm suggesting is just to replace that buffer stock of unemployed workers with a buffer stock of employed workers.
>muh Greece This wouldn't work in Greece or any eurozone country because of the fiscal constraints of a government using a foreign currency.
Alexander Walker
It wouldn't work anywhere.
The "fiscal constraints" you're talking about are not outspending your income by several orders of magnitude until you can't borrow any more.
Could we feasibly afford it? Yes. Would it be sustainable? Fuck no.
Angel Cook
And you're an idiot. So the odds are pretty good you're Krugman.
Adrian Allen
This said, job guarantee would be better than the current welfare system we have. Hell, even when on the doll I supported me being put to work cracking rocks or something.
William Ortiz
people eat food anyway to live.Somehow you can find the money, even directing charity to it.
OP's proposal could be modified by making the guaranteed job have below-minimum-wage wage and not be fulltime. JG' jobs would be restricted by the government to be useful but at the same time not hurt real business with their low wages. Street cleaning of poor areas, social assistence of weak/old/sick people,surveyllance of zones with high crime(with little power and in collaboration with police), unskilled job in government contract ( example: when building a state school upto 10% of workers could be hired that way). I am sure the government can find something retarded, socially useful that is worth paying half a living wage when society already had to sustain the individual in some way.
Jack Watson
The government's fiscal balance is simply a residual of how much the private sector wanted to save (spend less than its income) over the period. Furthermore no government needs to borrow its own currency back to finance deficits, and no currency issuer will be unable to issue public debt instruments. >several orders of magnitude [in the context of public spending] Nice strawman but all I advocated in this thread was to pay minimum wage to anyone who can't find a better job. This would be completely counter-cyclical.
Dominic Morris
>OP's proposal could be modified by making the guaranteed job have below-minimum-wage wage and not be fulltime. Whatever wage the JG scheme pays would become the real minimum wage. Right now the real minimum wage is zero.
Camden Cruz
Thanks for your input.
I think the great benefit of JG over UBI is that it's the perfect stabiliser. UBI pays out to everyone all the time, whereas JG automatically shrinks back in a boom as workers get private sector jobs.
There is also of course the point that JG makes some use of unemployed labour rather than letting it be wasted. On the other hand UBI hopes people will voluntarily do something useful.
Then there is the social aspect of it - mental illness, domestic violence, etc directly or indirectly related to unemployment. UBI doesn't take care of that.
Jaxson Morgan
Another thing - I can see why you call MMTers crypto-commies (although I disagree). That said, what do you think of this? beinglibertarian.com/mmt/ tldr: a libertarian realised that MMT is politically/ideologically neutral on its own
Jonathan Stewart
This is literally a reinvention of a communist practice. Making up bullshit jobs so that there is no unemployment. Inb4 people do the made up jobs really badly because they can't be fired.
Connor Smith
but my benefits i have anxiety i need money for my programs
Jason Sanchez
No, creating real jobs so that there is no involuntary unemployment.
Also people could be fired from a JG if they refused to work or whatever.