Daily Japanese Thread - DJT # 1891

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
djtguide.neocities.org/

Discuss the process of learning Japanese.

Previous thread:

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=ODebErZ97NM
youtube.com/watch?v=16mNjPICjb0
youtu.be/IeE-nrWJLjk
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/係り結び
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/助詞
core6000.neocities.org/hjgp/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

...

Does anyone have a way for me to download the pimsleur japanese lessons for free? I finished the first 2 units on audible but then I noticed in reviews that some people said the most just get the lssons for free so now I feel like a fucking idiot for paying. I have searched and cant find any of the lessons for free beyond the first unit. Thanks in advance if anyone can help

僕が聞いた噂によると、出来ないちゃんは日本語学習者のこぼした涙をあつめて潤滑剤として使っているらしい

DJT, show me your production skills.

Write a short dialogue between a squirrel and a pair of scissors.

Could someone tell me what つける means in the context of 自分で反動つけたらうごくから?

Apply
If you apply reactionary force by yourself the swing will move, Yotsuba you stupid little shit

She's telling her to kick instead of needing to be pushed if you still don't get it

Why does Kanji exist still?

Use the Kodansha Kanji Learner's Course. It's a book found in the guide.

はさみ: おい、リス
リス: なんだ
はさみ: あんた、私がはさみだってこと知っているだろう
リス: ええと、そうだけど
はさみ: 最近、あんたを挟んで切ってもいいかなと思ってた
リス: いやだ
はさみ: なんで
リス: 死ぬだから、それに痛い
はさみ: そうか。。。少しだけで大丈夫?
リス: 絶対だめ!!!

スコットランドはイギリスの北海道

ベグビー先輩、おチンチン見せてくれ?

ないはベンダです

Is it better to learn individual Kanji with vocab examples like in the Kanji learner books, or is learning solely vocab through 2k deck/reading from the get-go a better choice?

>start actually trying to read doujinshi/eromanga
>won't let myself get to the sex until I read and understand every page before

I CAN DO THIS.

615 days streaks end because I forgot to do Anki for one day. Fucking Sunday.

日本から韓国まで2時間半しかかかりません。
Nihon kara Kankoku made ni-jikan han shika kakarimasen.
"It takes only two hours and a half to get to South Korea from Japan."
ケイトは漢字を5こしか知らない。
Keito wa kanji o go-ko shika shiranai.
"Kate knows only five kanji."

This just fucked me up. Why is it shiranai and not shitteiru? I know it's because shika is used but why must it always be used with a negative?

Would it be more proper to translate shika as nothing but instead of only? That's the only way it makes sense to me.

That would be more literal, yes. Look it up in DoJG.

It's "except for." She does not know any except for five. かなしか読めない can't read except for kana. しか is always used with a negative predicate.

Ok that makes more sense in my brain. I don't like the way Jappod101 translated it.

Would love help with either of these:

1) What is the meaning of「トレーニングってってそんなんか!」? [そんなんか especially is confusing]

2) Does 「正人になら 機密書類見せてくれんじゃねぇ?」talk about a hypothetical future scenario (i.e. Won't he reveal the documents if it's (to) Masato?"), or is it about what the speaker thinks is currently actually happening (i.e. "Doesn't he let Masato see the documents?")?

And if it is the first option, is there an implication that he does think it is likely the person will reveal the documents? Does the wording make him sound pretty sure?

This language is fun but my first week into it still feels very overwhelming, hopefully can finish Tae Kim before Christmas and start reading.
Is it best to read while I'm still brand new or will it burn me out?

What are you listening to?

youtube.com/watch?v=ODebErZ97NM

youtube.com/watch?v=16mNjPICjb0

The best advice I can give you as someone who was struggling a lot learning this language is, don't kid yourself. This language is hard and overwhelming and often you'll wonder if you're even progressing at all, but that doesn't mean you're not progressing. It's a common feeling that everyone feels for a long time. So as long as you just stick with it by studying good materials for a few hours every day you'll definitely get there. I'd say you should do multiple things such as reading, listening, grammar, writing (your own sentences) as much as you can along side Tae Kim so you can actually practice what you learned.

ある物事・状態・作用などが新たに生じたり、増し加わったりする。「電話がつく」「味がつく」「はずみがつく」
この「つく」の他動詞形が、この「つける」

Through determination, the dream became true.

どうして、ここでいる?過去で、皆はSup Forumsでポストしていた、何が起こった?

お気の毒ですね
(´・ω・｀)

How do I properly train my listening skills? I listen to jpod101 but I've never been able to listen to an entire skit without needing to repeat it 10 times or read the translation. And when I do that and listen to it again it feels like I'm recalling a pre-made translation I've made in my head rather than interpreting what's being said at the time.

it's easier to listen to something if you already know all the words, then it's a matter of training your ears

Transcription, or English translation? Either way, you need to read more and get accustomed to the words and different contexts in which they're used. Mastering things like pitch accents or conversational slurring aren't helpful without that foundation.

How lond will it take from scratch to reading japanese novels? 10 years?

It's just around 2500 hours. Good luck!

Are you Japanese?

Hai.

Depends on how quick express delivery is wherever you live.

Simply buy a Japanese novel in whatever language you understand.

Tell your mother I left my watch on the nightstand and that I need it back.

好きでい続ける is "continue being in love" right?

youtu.be/IeE-nrWJLjk

Stop spamming this fucking Youtube channel.

日本語には「係り結び」という文法法則があるんだよ。
「~しか、~ない」は、文末の動詞は必ず否定形になる。これを否定で結ぶという。
ほかにも「ぞ・なむ・や・か」の係助詞は、連体形で結ぶ。「こそ」は已然形で結ぶ。「は・も」は終止形で結ぶ。
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/係り結び
keep on loving

A husband and wife are fighting, and this is a description of the husband after the wife said something insulting to him:
「父親は怒るよりも先に驚いていた。」

What does 先に mean here?

smelly pussy...no thanks to me

you pay to much attention to particles

good taste senpai

because you guys talk too little and assume too much

>Xよりも先にY

That's what you are looking for an explanation for.
I would read it as "rather than being angry, my father was surprised", but I have never seen that idiom before, so I'm merely guessing.

Is there a difference between yamete and yamero?

I'd say something along the lines of foremost

Well, the first one is the te-form, the second one is the imperative.
The te-form may be used imperatively (usually with kure/kudasai), but it's way more versatile than that.

The first one is in tone what a woman would use.
The second one is in tone what would be used by a superior towards his underlings.

>さあ、行っといで
What does this mean?
it sounds like they were telling the person to go but what conjugation is this?

行っておいで

can おいで mean to go? i thought it just meant "come here"

ナイス。切るのは結局鋏の生き甲斐です。

行っておいで is like 行ってらっしゃい but spoken from a equal/higher status
status sounds awkward but you know what I mean

bump

否定形は活用形じゃなくて未然形と打ち消しの助動詞からできた連語だから、係り結びより呼応というんじゃないですか

現代日本語には係り結びという現象は起こりません

いいえ、呼応というのは、もっと広い概念だと思います。
が文法用語として使う定義を知りません。
日本語のaffixには、接頭辞と接尾辞がセットになるものもあります。また、「全く~ない」のような副詞との述語の関係も、一般言語の意味に於いて呼応でしょう。
現代の日本語には、終止形を結びとする「は・も」を除くと、「しか」しか結びを持たないとするのが一般的です。
『係助詞:
ついた語に意味を添えて強調するもの。述語と呼応することもある(古典語では係り結びがあり、現代語では「しか」が否定形に呼応)』
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/助詞

おいで comes from お plus 出で (いで), the 連用形 of 出づ (いづ), the archaic form of 出る. お出でになる can be used to mean 行く, 来る or 居る honorifically, just like いらっしゃる.

お出で can also be used as an abbreviated form of お出でなさい, a polite command form. This can be used as a supplementary verb attached to the て-form to mean ~ていけ, ~てこい, ~ていろ.

English-speaking linguists seem to be moving towards using "particle" as a generic term meaning "grammatical function words", including clitics (['s]), prepositions ("on"), postpositions ("ago"), and "traditional" particles ("to"). Exactly because of how crappy and uncoordinated English grammatical jargon is.

>(古典語では係り結びがあり、現代語では「しか」が否定形に呼応)
だから現代の「~しか~ない」は厳密に係り結びと言えないと思います
古語の「ぞ」や「こそ」の係助詞は文末の用語の活用形をそのもの変化させるけど、現代語の「しか」はある活用形と結ぶわけじゃなく、ある意味の助動詞(打ち消しの「ぬ」、「ず」、「ない」等)と結ぶのです。
だから係り結びというより、副詞の呼応みたいなもの(「もし~たら」とか)に相当するではないかと

私は英文法の研究はしていないので、その質問に直接答える意義を見出せません。
しかし、こういうことは言える訳です。
例えば、日本語の「助詞」という概念をどのように英語で伝えるか、翻訳するかについてすら:
1 particle
2 postposition
3 affix
のいずれを選択するかという問題がある訳です。
それは、単にtermの選択ではなく、それぞれ背景とする理論そのものが違うし、日本語文法に関する体系性そのものが異なる訳です。私は、国文法(橋本文法)を基本にして文節の品詞分解で文法的解説を統一していますが、国文法以外の知識を必要とする解説は言語学上のtermを適時援用しています。
これは、日本語に内在して説明する以上避けがたい問題であり、英語やラテン語の文法とは関係はありません。

Man I love this show. I've never been able to find anything like it. I can't find a reliable way to watch it though. DVDs are close to $50 and blu-ray is almost double that.

wow, funny how i never read this kind of stuff in the text books or guides i find yet learning the origin is always helpful.
Thanks man

Can 何が何だか分からない be used when feeling around inside of a bag and you don't know what it is that you are feeling?

言いたいことは分かりましたが、そもそも係助詞そのものが副助詞の下位概念です。
「しか」については、元々係り結びの構文に「~こそ~しか」という係り結びの逆接用法のというものがあるのです。
「さま悪しき御もてなしゆゑこそ、すげなう嫉みたまひしか、・・・」(源氏・桐壺)
見苦しいまでの御寵愛ゆえに、冷たくお妬みなさったのだが、
この「が」に注目してください。
「昨日こそ/早苗とりしか/いつの間に/稲葉そよぎて/秋風の吹く」
つい昨日、早苗を取って田植えをしたと思っているのに、いつの間にかもう、稲葉となって、そよがせる秋風が吹いていることよ。
こり「のに」に注目してください。
「しか」の語源は助動詞「き」の已然形です。
これが、近世以降、「てしか」や「にしか」の形で、「こそ」と切り離して(省略して)係助詞「しか」となり、「しか」以降の内容が逆接であることが転じて「打消しの語を伴って、特定の事柄以外のものを全く否定する意を表す」こととなったのです。
で、現代語では、「しか」は、実は「だけしか」や「のみしか」など限定の副助詞と組み合わせ、「しか」以降が否定であることをあらかじめ示し、主文の述語に否定形がくることを示すことに特化した用法が、「しかない」などの成句を除いて一般的です。
で、この用法そのものが「結び」(文の終わり方)に他ならないのです。
換言すれば、「だけ」や「こそ」の他の限定を示す副助詞とは違う特殊な副助詞であるので、「しか」は係助詞と呼ばれるのです。そして、上に見たような歴史的経緯もあり、中世の「係り結び」の結びの方ですが、係り結びの名残として「~しか~ない」の関係性も「係り結び」と呼ばれるのです。副助詞は付いた語句を副詞句に変えるものですから、副詞の呼応関係と異なるものでもありません。

具体的なバックの中身がわからない時は「何が入っていいるかわからない」で「何が何だかわからない」は余り使わない。
if you are confused because you don't know what it is that you are feeling,
you can use 何が何だか分からない

*何が入っているかわからない

Hi! I am Takafumi Aita.

Nickname is Takkun and punk rocker, haha.

Thank you for coming to my page.

I enjoy learning English!!

I wanna communicate with people of various countries!!

Lets enjoy using in English!

Nice to meet you, everyone!

I respect for pantera yeah!!!!!!!!

I like them better than anyone else.

My aim is to go abroad and roam around the world while doing business overseas and go to Dallas Texas of America and exchange liquor with a member of Pantera.

Also I wanna live in Canada!

But my final goal is to connect with people all over the world!!
I want to be friends, any nationalities, females or males and cultures. These do not matter!!

Im sure to be WORLD TAKKUN!!!

If you are interested in me even a little, please be friends!

>how crappy and uncoordinated
I don't see it that way. There has been linguistic, academic pedantism since forever, but relativism has taken an influence of its own. The same system that allows humanities to be called "social sciences" tries to validate all forms of speech as variations, no right or wrong.

Disputes like le Oxford Comma meme pale in comparison, this would be an occasion where both sides of the conversation would unite against the total anarchism proposed by modern "linguists".

Just see how you were able to label pretty much everything, there is no point in making it less specific other than creating an umbrella term for further flexibility on rules.

Yeah, I'm being a grammar nazi in the sense I believe the academy should be responsible for keeping the language in check and avoiding its degeneration, instead of merely being an observational field where there is just reporting the "natural evolution" of language. It's not something that has been always possible, but technology is not ubiquitous and we have the means to preserve a language's core much longer than in the past. Consistency makes me happy, retrocompatibility too.

There is no academy for linguistic jargon in any language. Every linguistic discipline has disagreements on how to use words. If you think that English linguistic jargon isn't so uncoordinated that it causes problems, you don't know enough about English linguistics to have an opinion about it. "Particle" can mean anything. "Adverb" and "conjunction" have at least four completely incompatible formal definitions. Nobody knows what "imperfective" is supposed to mean. People can't agree on the difference between gerunds and participles, and have given up so hard that they just say "gerund-participle nexus".

That's why if you want to get serious about a language's grammar you need to use that language's own grammatical terms.
Obviously if you don't actually speak that language yet you need to start by fumbling around with your own language's grammatical terms that fit like square pegs in round holes but you should be striving to eventually learn to understand the language's grammar the way its native speakers understand it the whole time.

they just say "gerund-participle"*

My point is you don't see people cocksucking on the Altaic language just because they can't reach a consensus on narrower language families.
Oversimplifying it will only make it more foggy.

No idea what you're trying to say dude.

the hue is a rambling autistic

まあ、難しいね。
日本語文法に特化しても「助詞」は「詞」か「辞」かという問題があり、現在は圧倒的に「辞」が優勢だろう。もっとも日本人の殆どが習う学校文法では「自立語」と「非自立語」に分け、「助詞」は「非自立語」であり、活用語尾などは「辞」として「語」の一部とする。これは言語学とはかなり離れた用語法だ。
困ったことに、日本語では主要な文法体系が6つあり、DJTのJGなども含めれば7つあり、用語そのものに互換性がない。
例えば日本語の「助動詞」という概念そのものも、auxiliary verbと書く時は「補助動詞」を指し、国文法の助動詞に該当するものは、例えば、JGでは conjugationの一部、言語学的にはconjugative suffixとしてとらえられ、これに該当する概念がない。多くのnative JapaneseがJGを説明に採用できないと考えるのは、日本語には5つの活用形と5つの活用の型しかないからです。

Ah, okay. Thank you. That explanation cleared it up.

What is the key contextual difference between ゆっくり and 遅い?

take it easy
vs
slow/late in general

Someone who wakes up late and speeds to work and is still late is 遅い but not ゆっくり. Someone who casually walks to an important appointment and gets there half an hour early is ゆっくり but not 遅い.

finally reached the chapter about worst girl (pic related).... ffs, this will take me forever

...

Would there be any difference in nuance if it was just って instead of だって in these two situations? Does the だ serve a purpose?

Also, in second example, how is だ allowed to be there without at least a ん or の in between? Maybe this is just for quoting?

core6000.neocities.org/hjgp/
ctrl+f だって there's three entries on it with multiple senses each have fun

だって is a compound grammatical construction with its own syntactical rules.

>［終助］《係助詞「だって」の文末用法から》引用句に付く。相手の言葉に対して、非難・驚きの気持ちを込めて強調する意を表す。「欲しいくせに、いらないだってさ」「なぜ休んだかだって。病気だよ」
[Final Particle] (From the use of the bound particle だって at the end of a sentence) Attaches to a quoted phrase. Expresses emphasis by including feelings of criticism or surprise with regards to someone else's words. "Even though she wants it, she doesn't need it she says!" "'Why did you take the day off?' he says! I'm sick!"

"Yotsuba wants to go out to play, she says. To the beach." (That might be out of the question, though)

"You're well done, it says!" (See, you're amazing after all!)

How is Bakemonogatari in terms of difficulty? I always thought I'd wait until I was master nippongo as to not ruin the apparently clever and punny exprience, but studying the character's names seemed like a walk on the beach, not as deep as I first thought it would be.

Thanks. One more thing, is it grammatically correct/common to have だって directly after past tense, or non-past?

I don't know really how to answer that, but I think pic related sort of represents the average difficulty

Yeah, it's normal for 終助詞 final particles to come after the 終止形 sentence-ending form. It would be hard for them to exist otherwise.

Thanks again

カナダの朝ごはんです。

あなたは好きですか?

SPINACH
A FUCKING CUP OF SPINACH
全くカナダ人は

So if I practice phonetics enough, what are my chances old becoming a seiyuu?

i force myself to eat a vegetable, nothing personal kiddo.

はあああい、苺とルッコラとゲロが大好きです!

Looks pretty good to me

I don't understand what it means to put a に after a verb
for instance, this sentence
君が身勝手に語り出した自身の状況から推察したに過ぎない
the character this person is talking to doesn't know who they are or where they are
I don't understand the したに過ぎない specifically

How old were you guys when you started learning?
How old are you now?