The current problems with North Korea are entirely their fault. They continually affirmed they would defend NK if the US tried to invade them allowing it to become the rogue nuclear state it is today.
It's literally the only country they're in charge of, and they still fucked up.
they are a historically less invasive species than sharters, they dont put their nose into everything, they can have kawailand and seamonkeys, maybe tickle the asshole of russia a bit too
because they'd let people take care of their own problems and only offer either diplomatic or economic incentives.
America would do both but also meddle with their military and destabilize countries covertly whenever they felt like it.
the current situation is a byproduct of a cold war era. nobody is to 'blame'. if the US wants to solve the problem, either listen and work with everybody in the region, or just go in on it your own and take responsibility for what happens. don't blame someone else for not fixing your problems.
>rogue nuclear state
Look at Libya if you think US invasion is a good thing. The US can take the 25 million brainwashed North Korean refguees, if you want to. Or you could leave it alone until it collapses itself.
because if they made a modernization effort and built a good navy, they would be able to project their power around the world like the usa does. but as said china has always had more of an isolationist policy
It's sad when Sup Forums makes more sense than the foreign policy of the last 3 administrations including the current.
Agree completely leaf. We've had no idea what to do since we "won" the Cold War. We don't want to spend our blood and money on being numba 1, but we fear the alternatives if we let a multipolar world re-emerge......so we're just figuring out how to sort of fix things so we can back away slowly and hope it doesn't all collapse.
Yeah, because that whole not invading North Korea thing turned out to be a GREAT decision, just like Neville Chamberlain letting Hitler grab up territory he wanted was a brilliant strategy.
You can't just bury your head in the sand and be like "Not my problem" with foreign aggression like everything will just magically turn out okay.
North Korean migrants would be far better than shitskins.
They are less imperialist despite having once been an empire.
you're retarded
these 25,000,000 people believe their leader has cured dwarfism, is able to control the weather and a new star formed and lit up the sky when he was born
>Putting the Libya invasion on the US
Lmao, fuck off. France and Britain begged us to help them overthrow Ghadaffi. We didn't give a shit. Obama was just a cuck who only made heavy handed foreign policy decisions when one of his allies asked for help. He never took the initiative on anything.
you're retarded for thinking that north koreans actually believe that shit
They're incredibly invasive. There are loads of them here, they're a good part of the reason tuition prices are so high.
well okay, then take the 25 million. no problems lol, they're a few shades lighter than mexicans so it's all good to you when they shit in the streets
What exactly about "Letting North Korea do whatever they want" do you think was a good decision?
for who? good decision is a perspective issue.
Their diaspora might be invasive, but I think the guy you're responding to is talking about how, historically, most of China's military conflicts were focused on internal strife rather than invading other regions. They have always been self-centered and do not look towards fighting other countries
>less invasive species than sharters, they dont put their nose into everything
youre kidding me, right?
look at sydney, melbourne and mapleniggers now
They care about global warming and support free trade.
They're better capitalists than the USA.
>> International students from outside the EU are generally charged the Overseas rate, which is higher, as no Government subsidy is given to universities for international students to help meet the cost of their education
they pay the full unsubsidized rates and subsidize your university.
>good decision is a perspective issue.
Lmao, humor me. Who the fuck benefited from letting North Korea go nuclear? Japan? South Korea? China?The starving North Korean people who continue to live in an authoritarian hellhole?
The only person that benefited was Kim and all his most loyal associates concerned only with preserving the survival of their regime. It's on China's hands that millions and millions of innocent people could die after Kim goes YOLO with his nukes once he feels the desperate threat of an internal coup which continues to grow.
Who benefits from NK going Nuclear? North Korea and to some extent China. As long as the nukes are pointed at the USA, China has nothing to fear from a nuclear armed NK. Same way China has no fear of a nuclear armed Pakistan as long as India exists.
this isn't China's problem, it's the USA's problem. you guys go deal with it if it annoys you so much. either come together and work with the people in the region to have a solution everyone can agree to. or invade and deal with it the USA way. either way, China could let NK arm itself with nukes and not give a fuck. they already have a Islamic republic armed with nukes on their borders.
>chinese colonialism
Migrate, become jew-like merchant class, hold onto chinese roots while assimilating to local culture
>white colonialism
Genocide, slavery, institutional discrimination, denigration and demoralization of local culture
The choice is clear
China is who will all but certainly be tasked with taking care of most of the millions of extremely poor North Korean refugees that will inevitably flee north once their state finally collapses, Chang.
China has basically admitted they fucked up with allowing the NK to become the problem it is today. Their only reluctance to a US invasion of NK is that they're the ones who with have to take in the bulk of the refugees, and the US at this point can't really invade anyway because of the nukes.
>>China is who will all but certainly be tasked with taking care of most of the millions of extremely poor North Korean refugees that will inevitably flee north once their state finally collapses, Chang.
and what makes you think there will be refugee's? have the Americans attacked? will the Americans attack? it seems more to me like USA won't commit to military action unless NK attacks first. so we're at a impasse, your scenario won't come to play unless NK attacks first. let's wait and see how it plays out before we're so sure of it okay? unless of course you think that the USA will attack even when they know China will intervene on the Norths side. possible, but improbable.
>>China has basically admitted they fucked up with allowing the NK to become the problem it is today. Their only reluctance to a US invasion of NK is that they're the ones who with have to take in the bulk of the refugees, and the US at this point can't really invade anyway because of the nukes.
sure if you think it's a fuck up, it's a fuck up. but the fact is. NK is doing what China wants it to be, a buffer state that provides labor and resources at a discount.
fact of the matter is. this is a USA problem. China has no problems letting NK get nukes and no problems if the status quo is unchanged.
well, i'm not a Chang, but the fact that you can't take criticism or an opposing view objectively means you a dumbass mate.
Yes, I'm aware, Xin Pei, that was my point to begin with.
The American diaspora is completely benign, can't say the same for China.
No, Chinese don't study. They say sending kids to school is a waste of time, they aren't scholarized and they just work 24/7 selling food and cigarettes. And they don't pay their fucking taxes, they ALL cheat the fucking taxes. And then they dare complain they are oppressed by niggers, well maybe if they paid taxes i would care. At least niggers are too dumb to cheat taxes.
then how is
>>they're a good part of the reason tuition prices are so high.
your tuition rates are calculated by your governments rate of expense vs the cost of the institution. international students take no subsidy and pay more into the system, allowing universities to accept more local students with more money funded by them.
not the point i was making mate, but okay.
>the average Sup Forums user
>wanting citizens to pay their fucking taxes is Sup Forums
ok mr. my country is too shit to even have a taxation system, i wish i could experience glorious peruvian libertarianism in the pampa like you
>the average Sup Forums user "reply"
>and what makes you think there will be refugee's? have the Americans attacked? will the Americans attack? it seems more to me like USA won't commit to military action unless NK attacks first. so we're at a impasse, your scenario won't come to play unless NK attacks first. let's wait and see how it plays out before we're so sure of it okay? unless of course you think that the USA will attack even when they know China will intervene on the Norths side. possible, but improbable.
You have to be an idiot to think that North Korea is a long term stable state. Cell phones and other modern devices continue to be smuggled in to the country as their people have an ever growing awareness of the outside world. Public protests are becoming more and more frequent, and their government is exhausting itself just to constantly shut them down before they can grow larger. Most of their people, especially the youth, despise the regime. The only thing preventing an all out rebellion is that the people can't effectively communicate with each other between regions.
The refugees are an inevitably. The only question is what Kim is gonna do once he becomes incredibly desparate.
Please Jean... Les universités sont pleines d'étudiants chinois.
But you wouldn't know that.
go fuck your goat nahuateculahuatecla you fucking nigger
they've been stable for what? 60 odd years with 3 dynastic handovers now? the same as the CPC?
sure man, if you think the region is unstable, but obviously getting reliable intel from NK is pretty hard. I mean USA intel #1 right? we ever find those Iraqi WMD's?
they are only less invasive because they don't need to be
they are an entirely insular power
being a superpower implies worldwide intervention to assert and protect that power
the US doesn't invade places for a laugh, it does it to protect and expand its power.
>muh is Sup Forums
Fuck off comepalomas
he's right
people cheat so much and purposely try to sabotage other kids in class so they can get ahead
>everyone I don't like is reddit: the Sup Forums guide to Sup Forums discussion
So basically it all boils down to you wanting the world to become a disorganized diplomatic mess like it was pre WW2?
I don't see that having a good outcome. I'm not saying we are the ideal people to keep the diplomatic order, far from it, but nobody else is willing to even attempt it, and eve if they were people would probably have the same damn issues with them.
NK - China
Judeia - USA
Actual rich Chinese citizens come, pay, and go back yes
Chinese diaspora long term immigrants ? No
I am speaking from experience t b h i know a ton of people who work in education or tax collecting or social matters and they all have the same thing to say about them
>>everyone I don't like is a cuck: the Sup Forums guide to Sup Forums discussion
Fixed
no chinaman ever called me a wh*te
Do you keep up with world news and current events whatsoever? Go Google "north korean defectors talk about North Korea" and watch some videos. These people aren't nearly as in the dark about the outside world as they were even 10 years ago. There is a very real effort by former North Koreans to smuggle technology in to the country and communicate with them to the point that anyone under the age of 30 is certainly aware of how shitty their state is. The only people completely loyal to the regime are the older generations who continue to die off.
i prefer the world a disorganized diplomatic mess then a organized military conflict where millions can die.
the NK situation is a culmination of years of mistakes on all sides. to reduce conflict, all parties should negotiate a workable solution. asking NK to stop their weapons program before entering negotiations is pretty dumb.
selection bias? those that flee NK are also the ones most critical of it. that's why they FLED. it would be nigh impossible to get a qualitative opinion survey on North Korean attitudes.
desuarchive.org
Caught a samefag, Captain. She's a big one.
>You have to be an idiot to think that North Korea is a long term stable state. Cell phones and other modern devices continue to be smuggled in to the country as their people have an ever growing awareness of the outside world. Public protests are becoming more and more frequent, and their government is exhausting itself just to constantly shut them down before they can grow larger. Most of their people, especially the youth, despise the regime. The only thing preventing an all out rebellion is that the people can't effectively communicate with each other between regions
Why? China is far far less cut off from the outside world than North Korea but I don't see any rebellion against the CCP happening, do you?
>desuarchive.org
that's not samefagging you retard, samefagging is me replying to my own reply
holy fuccccccccccccck
My god, how delusional are you? The punishment for getting caught trying to flee North Korea is death. What, do you think people stay in the country because they think it's some paradise? If you get caught making a call to South Korea, not only do you die, but 3 generations of your family are sentenced to death.
I have personally taken a flight from the US to Seoul. You have to completely redirect around North Korea because you they would shoot your fucking plane down the moment it touches their airspace. This isn't some conspiracy. Their state is an authoritarian shithole.
Well, it is and then it isn't. Xi Jinping has tightened media censorship because he fears this very thing. The truth is, the CCP is having an increasingly hard time justifying their continued existence, especially since the recession in 2008.
Most young people really don't care that much for the CCP but tolerate it somewhat grudgingly because political change would get a huge number of people killed and no one wants that, and there's not really any alternative political movement to replace it.
See
You can commercially fly over China. You can't fly over North Korea.
China's human rights issues are nothing compared to North Korea.
you are really kind of dumb. did i say north korea isn't authoritarian? i'm saying that there's no reliable way to get information out of north korea aside from people who have fled. those who have fled have a bias towards the current regime. it would be nigh impossible to conduct a qualitative survey on north korean attitudes. so there isn't anyway to know if the defectors are correctly gauging the attitudes of north koreans. you do know what selection bias is right?
here, to make it more clear to you, a few people who fled NK telling you how the people there are ready to revolt is not indicative of the ACTUAL attitudes of 25million north koreans. is this not a simple concept?
I don't think anything quite touches North Korea. Mao-era China and Stalin's Russia weren't even nearly as bad as that.
>this isn't China's problem
If Kimmy shoots a nuke off and war erupts on the Korean Peninsula, it sure as hell becomes their problem in a hurry.
uh you do realize China had no recession in 2008? that was an American thing, c'mon folks. let's not be so retarded.
It was called a global recession for a reason.
a recession is a prolonged period of negative growth. look at a GDP chart of China for fucks sake man.
Are there any actual white people posting under Canadian flags?
This entire mess we have today could have been avoided if MacArthur had not been the king of all morons back in 1950.
Indeed it is. While many North Koreans still love Kim Il Sung, the younger Kims are far less popular--as proof of this, the regime reportedly debated whether or not they should display Kim Jong Il's body next to his father.
Many of them it is said also hate China for propping up the regime and allowing its continued existence.
How much evidence do you need exactly?
>The personal experience from North Koreans aren't good enough because they're traitors that fled the magnificent state of NK
>Western media outlets can't be objective because they want to see the fall of glorious North Korea
>China increasingly distancing itself from North Korea and adding sanctions is because they're cowards who bow to the evil Americans
Do you just see smoke in your house and think, "Well, I won't believe there is a fire until it burns me alive"?
They don't
how much evidence do i need? pretty fucking convincing evidence if it's going to be the basis for committing soldiers to fight and die. if my decision for military action depends on the people revolting and not helping the regime fight off my forces i better be damn sure. that or i better have enough resources to fight a war against all of them if they do not revolt and that im willing to accept the losses if it comes to that.
that's how fucking sure i would want to be.
China knows damn well that the place is a ticking time bomb, and when it does finally come down, they'll get karmic justice for having propped up Pyongyang for decades.
You think you're taking some moral high ground with this kind of thinking, but you aren't. All you're doing is plugging your ears and saying, "I'm not morally responsible for the death of millions by not committing to a decision that would only lead to the death of thousands"
You'd make a horrible statesman. Ignoring obvious threats as though that justifies the ultimate consequence of more deaths later on because you're too pussy to put that guilt on yourself.
Neville Chamberlain and all the presidents before Abraham Lincoln took the same approach, and it ended in far more losses of life in the long run because they were idiotic cowards.
Like Japan in the 1980s, they are spreeing because they are getting better.
As long as there are more than 800 million foolish and savage people and corrupt governments, China will never exceed the USA.
If they adopted the full introduction of democracy and the federal system consisting of 7 to 8 provinces and formed an economic alliance with Japan, the story would be different.
>>"I'm not morally responsible for the death of millions by not committing to a decision that would only lead to the death of thousands"
this is american foreign policy at its best. let's interfere with other countries to potentially save more lives. even though there is no way to calculate how many 'potential' lives are saved. meanwhile your soldiers die and people suffer because good old USA has decided to regime change them and destabilize their country/region. All because it thinks it saved millions of lives at the cost of only a few hundred thousand.
look let's not pretend the USA is in possession of machine that calculates all the lives it saved by destablizing regions. there is no way to say 'it saved more lives then it took'. that's just your own government telling you they didn't fuck up with the amount of deaths they incurred while destabilizing other countries.
but we're horribly off topic.
Because they're their allies, moron.
Why would China care of NK developing nukes?
It's actually best for them, as it guarantees that no-one will try and invade their ally.
Because of that US aggressive foreign policy we live in a time of relative peace that has only ever also existed during Pax Britannia and Pax Romania. During the times in which Rome, Britain, and the US were not superpowers, the entire world has been enveloped in a constant state of war striving to fill the vacuum of power.
Just because you haven't personally witnessed the terrible consequence of when a world stabilizing superpower becomes decedent, doesn't mean they don't exist.
what relative peace? that's thanks to the advent of NUCLEAR WEAPONS! nobody wants to get into a world war because all the world powers have NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
lol, did you think America is the reason we don't have world wars is because America is so good at policing?
Because they have more experience.
Because by the time you browse down the page and finally see this comment, America will have most likely drone striked and double-tapped a few more people in the Middle East, most likely civilians including women and children. That is just one small little example of their "superpower" authority in spreading "democracy, freedoms, and blah blah blah".
latimes.com
Oh, by the way, their record for innocent civilians killed in a single day with drones is at the very least 200. Not too shabby, huh?
aww those poor muslims, i'm so sorry for them ;_;
You are incredibly naive. The US isn't special in the way it wants to conduct its foreign policy. It's just only country actually capable of making the unilateral foreign policy decisions because it's so much stronger than everyone else.
Give every country the same amount of nukes, and they will fly. The only reason nukes aren't already used strategically is because realistically there is only 2 countries that can threaten to destroy the entire world of they are hit with one, and the other countries with nukes are reliably aligned with one of them, and all of them are vehemently against increasing the amount of countries with that power.
North Korea is already a problem because China stupidly let them acquire nukes. Imagine if other non-actual superpower countries began to acquire them.
>>and all of them are vehemently against increasing the amount of countries with that power.
well duh, all countries want the ability to attack another one with a powerful weapon that the other country doesn't have. I don't understand your argument. The world is in a prolonged period of no world wars because many countries have nuclear weapons and the threat of using them keeps them from escalating conflicts. Not because of America's foreign policy is so effective it keeps every other country in the world from not launching nukes at each other.
A non superpower countries began acquiring them? omg! what will happen? dear lord, the Americans won't be able to invade them then. the fucking audacity.
>Imagine if other non-actual superpower countries began to acquire them
they would be somehow protected vs american airstrikes and shit
usa being afraid to bomb a random country on a whim, oh horror
Shit logic, NK developped nuke now USA is invading them precisely because of it
shit, are you from the future?
You're missing the point which is the US isn't the only country that strives for that power. Everyone wants it, so why do you think the world would be any better if some other country had the same leverage to make unilateral decisions the US does?
China has already shown it isn't any more altruistic than they US by letting NK become a problem state just to keep them as buffer to SK which aligns with the US. Russia continually let's it's old soviet nuclear technology haphazardly fall in to the wrong hands.
Everyone is out for their own interests. It's only more obvious with the US because they more or less have the power to do things no other country can.
well usa isn't invading them yet
even if their icbm are still questionable their short and mid range missiles are legit and a nuke to destroy an american fleet/army or seul or tokio etc is pretty possible
>Russia continually let's it's old soviet nuclear technology haphazardly fall in to the wrong hands.
proofs
no, seriously, it never went further than some helping with building a nuclear plant here and there
>>Everyone wants it, so why do you think the world would be any better if some other country had the same leverage to make unilateral decisions the US does?
Because we're already seen what the US does when it has that power and how it wields it by destabilizing regions and invading other countries. do i think another country can do it better? no, i don't want *any* country to do it at all. I want other countries to mind their own fucking business and use diplomatic or economic leverage to achieve their strategic goals, war is shit and should be avoided at all costs.
lol
They invaded Vancouver and Toronto and made it impossible to purchase a house here. They are soulless creatures and shitty human beings who respect nobody and they need to be exterminated
>Seriously how are we supposed to keep up with the borderline mechanical work ethic and unity of China when we're a mix of different ethnicities who all resent each other and everyone is either fat, autistic or cutting their dick off and we have to spend billions of dollars a year in welfare
That's how North Korea developed nuclear technology in the first place. Ukraine also had a ton of the Soviet's arsenal when the USSR collapsed, and we're just lucky they agreed to give it away. Had they known Russia would annex half their country decades later, I doubt they would have.
nukes don't even fucking matter
the norks can glass all of worst korea with just conventional arms and artillery - the MAD condition already existed since 50+ years ago but just on a smaller, yet just as effective, scale
if the US wants to go all in or even try to behead the norks then ALL of worst korea has to be evacuated - and if they try to do this pre strike then the norks will just yolo
this entire fucking meme about nukes is pointless when it comes to the reality of the norks position - not to mention talking about their capability of targeting the USA mainland - its literally who gives a fuck tier when the precursor options are already unacceptable (aka MAD tier)
if nukes actually mattered then NK wouldn't exist - they have plenty of resources to be FREEDOM'd and DEMOCRACY'd
the fate of lybia, iraq and to a much less extent ukraine is the reason why nk wants nukes
>the norks can glass all of worst korea with just conventional arms and artillery
they can't really, they can probably cause some havoc with their long range artillery but not that much, you can google stuff on that, i have read an article where it was accurately counted
ive heard/read exactly the opposite from multiple different sources - so that would be news to me
i was certainly exaggerating quite a bit but the point is that they can kill enough people to make assaulting them in any way not a politically viable option - if this were not the case at any point then NK would not exist because they would have been libya'd or iraq'd by now
china would not be a big enough of a deterrent if getting nukes was THAT important - but its not, because the MAD situation already existed
Most Americans will tell you the Iraq war was a terrible fucking mistake. Libya is on the Europeans as they begged us to help them overthrow Ghadaffi.
We have all made mistakes, but that doesn't justify letting a country like a piece of shit like Kim obtain nuclear capabilities. Neither the US, China, or Russia like what this whole situation has devolved in to.
China would prefer the status quo in Korea as it were; all the way back in the 60s when Kim Il Sung asked Beijing for nuclear weapons, they said no.
The US also had a very isolationist history up to the second world war.
Those who think the Chinese will remain in their place once they get to call the shots are delusional.
They will be a greater threat to western style democracy and order than any other.
Euroshits can talk all the shit they want about fascist or conservative US. But they will shit their pants when China gets to flail them around like bitches. I can't wait. Better get that Union more United, or you will be China's bitch once the US can't come in and help or tip the balance.
What's the problem with North Korea? They're an independent country that doesn't take orders from Uncle Sam. Do all countries have to be client states of NATO to be accepted?
>and formed an economic alliance with Japan
slant eyed cunt
>What's the problem with North Korea
Nothing, it's a great place to live. you should move there :^)