Maybe if I add a whole bunch of unnecessary garbage in the background and mix the album like shit then people won't...

>maybe if I add a whole bunch of unnecessary garbage in the background and mix the album like shit then people won't notice that the tunes are all basic modal bullshit and that my solos are all just running up and down one scale

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rbt.asia/mu/thread/78167929/#78172255
rbt.asia/mu/thread/75434085/#75435250
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartal_and_quintal_harmony
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_jazz
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

good thread

>maybe if i say stuff like "basic modal bullshit" people will think i understand music on anything more than a purely surface level

delightfully epic, kamasi

Jazz is about innate feeling and storytelling you Robotic cancerous fuck

Well it's actually a good plan if you want to be popular as a jazz artists. The vast majority of people only hear the very most surface level shit like instrumentation and "beats" when they listen to jazz so it really doesn't matter whether the soloing or the tunes are good or not. Pair that with a "cool" image and it's not surprising at all that he's so popular.

>Jazz is about innate feeling and storytelling you Robotic cancerous fuck
Ok, so then it's like Kamasi is trying to artistically express feelings and tell a story using only three letter words.

>caring about meaningless theoretical bullshit rather than just listening to something and deciding whether you like how it sounds

>listen to music and decide I don't like how it sounds
>because I understand music theory I can explain very specifically why I don't like how it sounds
lol what exactly do you think music theory is? how do you explain what you like or dislike about music?

that's exactly what they're doing, though???

So by your logic it shouldn't matter if he only played one note for the entire 2 hour album? As long as he did it with feeling and tried to tell a story?

well...yeah, why is that such a bad thing?
there is a shit load of music that is very simple melodically (techno, house)
wankery does not equal goodness. If an artist can invoke emotion and feelings with a limited palette, whats so bad about it?

jazzv is so fucking full of wankers with a muh virtuosity complex

Ok show me a good techno or house album that's only one note for the whole album.

We'll there are children's books that are written all of three letter words too. But nobody compares them to great works of literature.

>If an artist can invoke emotion and feelings with a limited palette, whats so bad about it?
There's nothing inherently "bad" about it per se, it's just "limited," literally by definition.

He Arranges all of the music too, you twat

>how do you explain what you like or dislike about music?
By saying "It's shit." or "I like it." of course.

I don't even see how people can pull the emotions argument with this record, the production and limited playing palette makes the whole thing have this static, robotic feel to it. It's like over two hours long, too of that same shit.

not one note you tard, none come to mind
one note a song? like half of all techno songs that get played at Berghain

but OP is just dismissing that album because it doesn't fulfill his own preconceived ideas of what good music is. If Kamashi has a limited palette but can make and invoke emotions, and people are receptive to it, why is that a bad thing?

And limitation is not bad either. I get more emotion out of a lot of repetitive techno music and throwback 70s pop than say, american guitar wankery a la Satriani

this isn't modal at all what the fuck are you talking about

>Jazz
>looking for good production
>Calls The Epic static and robotic.

You are a sad, sad person

>He what does everyone think about the greatest novel of our time??? (pic related)
Well it's really simplistic and repetitive I think there are only about 30 different words used in the whole thing. I think it's just meant to entertain children and I'm not sure it really even qualifies as a novel...
>FUCKING THEORY AUTISTS FUCK OFF WITH ALL YOUR JARGON!!!! A NOVEL DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE A BUNCH OF WANKY FANCY WORDS OR A COMPLEX PLOT TO BE GOOD! IT'S JUST ABOUT STORY AND EMOTION AND I SAY THIS BOOK HAS THE BEST STORY AND MOST EMOTION SO IT'S AUTOMATICALLY TRUE!!!!!!!!

>I get more emotion out of a lot of repetitive techno music and throwback 70s pop than say, american guitar wankery a la Satriani
Wow. Tell me more about your emotions. Do you have an email address so I can email you any time I need to know what music is objectively more emotional than other music??

>look mom I'm grasping at straws and making false equivalencies11!

>oh good look at this pleb enjoying his simple music, unlike me who only listens to very complex compositions by only cerified Masters, egads!

>soys listening to this becuz keenny lamer and praising it up the ass due to a lack of reference points

Jazz tends to have fantastic production though.

You people are all actually making the same argument. You're just not smart enough to see the big picture.

You claim emotion is the most important thing, yet fail to see that if you limit your palette enough, you limit your ability express complex human emotions deeply and profoundly. The specifics of this are subjective of course, but that's what you're really arguing about.

There's also the fact that most of you don't have good enough ears to tell on your own how limited Kamasi Washington's playing is. So you get upset when people point it out for you and refuse to accept that the music you like is actually very limited in its ability to express emotion.

shh, expecting anyone on Sup Forums to understand harmony is a bad idea

I think it's a decent comparison - if you compare the artwork with texture and the text with theory

>wankery does not equal goodness. If an artist can invoke emotion and feelings with a limited palette, whats so bad about it?
>jazzv is so fucking full of wankers with a muh virtuosity complex
Someone was asked to "prove" why Meditations by John Coltrane was "good" and it happened. Not the way you imagined it would, but the same misconception about music theory was there. Take a look:
rbt.asia/mu/thread/78167929/#78172255
And Kamasi Washington indeed doesn't offer much sonic exploration:
rbt.asia/mu/thread/75434085/#75435250

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH C-C-C-C-C-C-C-COMPLEXITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY *SPLTHPHSGS*

literature is not comparable to music. music is a much more abstract art form.

there are no rules to music like there are to literature. music is 100% subjective whereas with literature you can objectively demonstrate poor writing. it's a false equivalency.

Only a few I’ve heard. Obviously Fusion era Miles Davis, Return to Forever, even Bill Evans works had always had a great balance when he’s working with a trio. But I’m interested, who would you say has progressive recording tendencies in Jazz other than what I’ve already listed?

You don't listen to any contemporary jazz though do you? Labels like ECM and Criss Cross have fantastic mixing even though I don't like a lot of the music they put out. The Clean Feed label has better music, but actually worse mixing.

This is high quality bait, because the first two paragraphs are correct, but soon as you attack Kamasi, you’re cover was revealed

>there are no rules to music like there are to literature. music is 100% subjective whereas with literature you can objectively demonstrate poor writing. it's a false equivalency.
What's your opinion on Finnegan's Wake? You have read it right?

looks modal as fuck to me

Mainly most albums mixed by Teo Macero. The Fusion stuff from Davis is among them. He's kinda the big name when it comes to this.

A part of why some of the jazz purist types here appreciate those Criss Cross records is because those have great mixing. I really like how the drums are mixed in particular (individual drums and cymbals put at a distance from each other to make the drumset feel more foundational/all encompassing.)

yes, I studied that book in college. it's a very good and interesting book, but I'm also fed up with the meme of "JOYCE IS SO CRAZY HE'S IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND!!!"

he's like entry-level crazy core. the book is to literature what TMR is to music, simply a taste of how wild things can get.

I do a little, but only a couple a handful I really enjoy:

Matthew Halsall
Matana Roberts
The Necks
Kamasi


If you have any really good Reccs, just dish it man. When it comes to the contemporary fusions with IDM and Pop-rock just kill me

Am I crazy or did you state here
>literature is not comparable to music

and then go on to compare Finnegan's Wake to TMR

???

>looks modal as fuck to me
Tonality isn't exactly a trait of modal jazz. Neither is functional harmony (blues scale fits that).

>there are no rules to music like there are to literature. music is 100% subjective whereas with literature you can objectively demonstrate poor writing. it's a false equivalency.
Not at all. Literature is just as subjective as music is, but it's easier to assume that music is more subjective because it's "abstract" (like, yeah vibrations aren't exactly a tangible thing you can see with your eyes, but they do have objective measurable qualities to them.)

I find that part that you mentioned lastly very intriguing since I myself am a percussionist, and record’s like You Must Believe In Spring, as well as Spirit of Eden/Laughing Stock have been very inspiring lately because the drums do have such a fluidness.

>Tonality isn't exactly a trait of modal jazz.
Wat. I would say most modal jazz is tonal. Please post examples of modal jazz that you consider atonal.

>Neither is functional harmony (blues scale fits that).
How is any of the chord motion in that piece functional?

Anyway. You're ignoring the most glaring trait of modalness in the example which is the 30 FUCKING BARS OF static D minor

>I would say most modal jazz is tonal.
please look up what tonal harmony is

Listen to some samples from Criss Cross and ECM albums if you want to hear how drums should be mixed in jazz. If you want to listen to some really good modern jazz, check out Matthew Shipp or Rudresh Mahanthappa

There are different definitions of the word tonal. I was referring to the definition as meaning "not atonal" rather than meaning "functional"

now please address the rest of my post

>glaring trait of modalness in the example which is the 30 FUCKING BARS OF static D minor
There is very little chromaticism is his solos and that was a characteristic of bebop, forget modal jazz.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartal_and_quintal_harmony
This happenes exactly nowhere in The Epic. I'm not . The album isn't modal jazz.

if you think modal just means "hanging on one chord for a while" then i don't know what to say to you, the song clearly wasn't approached as a modal piece

>This happenes exactly nowhere in The Epic
Pretty sure the piano player plays plenty of quartal chords throughout the album. I'm not going to bother to listen to it again now to see but I'd be SHOCKED if he doesn't play a single quartal chord anywhere. Besides I don't really see where you're getting the assumption that modal jazz MUST include quartal/quintal harmony.

>The album isn't modal jazz.
Yeah no shit. But some of the individual tracks are basic modal jams.

>if you think modal just means "hanging on one chord for a while"
Well lucky us, I don't think that. However it is a major facet of modal jazz.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_jazz
Check it out. "Slow moving harmonic rhythm" is the FIRST trait listed here as one that might identify modal jazz.

Guess what? Third trait is a lack of functional harmony and I still have yet to see anyone explain how any of this chord movement is functional.

Feel free to try.

Peep Today's Opinion by Yosvany Terry it's probably the Criss Cross label's most loved record to come out in the 2010s.
Other stuff I would suggest peeping

Peter Evans Quintet - Ghosts (mostly jazz with bits of musique concrete type electronic in there)
David Virelles - Mboko (jazz meets like Afro-Cuban percussion music)
Maria Schneider - The Thompson Fields (largely orchestrated, kinda like if Gershwin and Ellington fused but also has her own style, pretty well mixed, too)
Vijay Iyer Sextet - Far From Over (seemed to be jazz AOTY from last year for a lot of /jazz/ guys here. Got a weird composition style where some of the progressions aren't immediately pleasing to the ear, follow Tyshawn Sorey's grooves)
Steve Coleman - Morphogenesis (also from last year, seen a few jazz critics and even Scaruffi seemingly give this praise. very divisive though cuz the music's ridiculously complex)

i love this book

good taste senpai

Yeah man thanks, I’ll check a few of these out forsure

Goodnight Moon is an extremely memorable and strangely potent children's book though, for only having 30 words.

If anything, this supports Kamasi. Showing you can create memorable, poignant, works with only a few parts.

I don't actually like Kamasi all that much though.

I've never heard of this guy, but I can tell by looking at him that he's the type that picks his nose and eats it when he thinks no one is looking. People that know him personally probably even joke about it behind his back.