digitalspy.com
>Hinting at the "brighter tone" of the upcoming Justice League movie, the actor also promised we'd be seeing a less broody Bruce Wayne in future films.
>"[He] was pretty pissed off in Batman v Superman, but now it's not about finding revenge in Justice League, it's about protecting the Earth... the feel is different."
I actually liked the angrier, aggressive side of Batman that Snyder gave us.
i hope they quipped up the dialogue
If there's one that makes a series great it's inconsistency
Well they better not fuck it up again (they will)
yeah, DC has fucked up too many times. This movie universe has already failed
Inconsistency is how characters grow.
It never stops amazing me how people defend DC movies on this board
Suddenly changing characters and movie tone completely from movie to movie isn't growth. Building upon something that already exists is growth.
Nothing like an off-screen character arc!
Yeah... Off-screen right?
They've already put themselves in such a corner there's not much else they can do, though.
This is why Marvel's way of doing it was smart. They started small introducing people to each character and made sure they actually cared about them before bringing them all together for an ensemble movie. By then they knew what worked with the audiences. Warner meanwhile has just been flying by the seat of their pants on this shit and by the time they realized Snyder's way of doing things wasn't working it was too late to go back to square one.
>BvS release
>'hurr durr we no like violent Batman!'
>JL prerelease saying he wont be as violent
>'hurr durr we miss the old violent Batman!'
Theres no helping yo faggots
so much anger
People have different opinions.
Yeah, I was really emotionally attached to Hawkeye before Avengers came out
>off screen
Pleb filtered
Well remember DC has like the big three of comic book characters, WW, Batman, and Superman yet somehow they fucked it up.
>MoS release
>hurr durr we no like violent superman
Captain America was a lot lighter than Winter soldier. It wasn't very consistent if you compared those two movie. We haven't see how different the tone is in JL yet. All we seen was a short clip of quips and if you remember BvS had then too. And knowing Snyder I doubt it will be that different. It's probably just going to be MoS but a bit litter and more Marvel tier quips.
Did you miss the end of BvS?
>le hivemind straw man
Kys
Wow that's a really insightful observation, yeah they introduced one single new member of the team in Avengers so that invalidates my whole point
BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN
>Captain America was a lot lighter than Winter soldier. It wasn't very consistent if you compared those two movie.
I don't know, Winter Soldier had its moments of levity. There was a tone shift but it wasn't an enormous one. More importantly there was no shift in Cap's characterization. The circumstances and content of the movie were different but at the center of it was the same spirit.
Nah. Batman never showed any sorts of indication to revert his violence in BvS.
What about the end showed Batman becoming merciful?
Suicide Squad is one of the most enjoyable films I have seen in recent years. Love it from start to finish and can't wait for the sequel!
I don't care really for the Justice League and no way interested in seeing Wonder Woman
this
>Suicide Squad is one of the most enjoyable films I have seen in recent years
nice bait
Pretty sure 90% of it is bait. Like this guy .
> End of Empire Strikes Back
> Luke has received basic training but still far below Jedi standard
> Lando is of questionable loyalty
> Vader is evil af
> Return of the Jedi
> Luke is a Jedi master
> Lando has proven himself and a general in the rebellion tasked with leader their most vital attack
> Vader is questioning his feelings on the Dark Side
It makes sense to not display yourself as an aggressive psychopath when the whole world is watching though.
I was really attached to Black Widow and Mark Ruffalo's Hulk too
Heres the thing though, In this universe Batman has already been around for decades. He has a whole history and mythology we dont get to see. Its really weird how little is explained (such as why Batman has no interest in capturing/killing the Joker)
Well yeah, and most people who think critically rightly point out that most of those things are flaws in Jedi.
>Luke is a jedi master
Not a change in character. That was his progression the entire trilogy.
>Lando has proven himself
Not a change in character. Lando arc'd at the end of ESB at risk of his own life.
>Vader questioning
This change was portrayed in the movie.
A non-fallacious comparison would be if:
Luke became a dark Jedi.
Lando betrayed the rebels.
Vader was a Jedi.
That is also irrelevant to what I just said.
Especially in light of there being a batman solo movie coming out.
Do you expect them to release everything side by side?
They're not disney.
Well Luke really was only ever actually shown progressing when he was training with Yoda, everything else was basically just him having a natural aptitude for the force. What doesn't make sense is that at the end of Empire he gets his ass handed to him by Vader, but then the next movie starts almost immediately after it ends and he has somehow leveled up without doing any more training with Yoda.
You can assume he was doing training on his own, maybe Yoda taught him enough he was able to keep it up in the interim, but it is still kind of jarring that he seems to have advanced so much with no indication to the audience as to how or when it happened.
Doesn't ruin the whole movie or anything but it's definitely a flaw.
not bait. Suicide Squad is amazing for me
>but then the next movie starts almost immediately after it ends and he has somehow leveled up without doing any more training with Yoda.
Except that's not true. There's a full year gap between those movies (canon).
>You can assume he was doing training on his own, maybe Yoda taught him enough he was able to keep it up in the interim, but it is still kind of jarring that he seems to have advanced so much with no indication to the audience as to how or when it happened.
Not really. We know time has elapsed and it's common sense he would continue his training.
What was Jabba doing with Han all that time? Was he just a (literal) trophy?
The joker was so awful that I have no idea how DC will address him in future movies. Its a full on disaster
>Except that's not true. There's a full year gap between those movies (canon).
It doesn't matter if it's canon because it's never made clear to the audience, and if true, doesn't even make sense. Luke promised to return to train with Yoda more after he faced Vader. And why would they wait a year to try to rescue Han? If it's been a year, why is Boba Fett still hanging out at Jabba's palace? He delivered Han and then just sat on his ass there for a year? He doesn't have any other bounties to collect or some shit?
And don't tell me it was explained in some book.
Probably. Made an example of him, too. That's a pretty bad fate.
Those goggles look fucking stupid. Fuck you, Snyder.
Warner execs said they had to cut down on costs so they reused the Owl suit from Watchmen
why does it seem like Jason is the only one having any fun making these movies?
He doesn't have to dress up in any stupid suits and he's playing a character no one gives a shit about anyway. He just gets to walk around and act cool while chugging whiskey. He got the best role by far.
The fact that we haven't heard about Leto's Joker being in The Batman despite BvS hinting at him killing Robin says it all.
Affleck clearly wants to avoid using him, so he picked a villain that WB hasn't ruined yet instead.
>never made clear to the audience
That's bullshit. The time elapse is very prominent. The end of ESB they're escaping cloud city, the beginning of ROTJ focuses on Jabba's palace Leia in disguise to free Han. Not sure how much more of an indication there has to be that "time has passed".
This is all off-topic. RoTJ has many flaws, but your original point was defending Batman's off-screen arc by pointing out off-screen arcs that weren't actually off-screen arcs. No need to devolve the argument into SW discussion. Move on.
You mean, "he doesn't mind being typecast because he realizes how limited his acting ability really is and is thankful he gets paid a shit ton of money to play the same character in everything he's in."
Yeah, I agree with you. The OT had their discrepancies and we just roll with them because nostalgia and they're still fun films. Half of the things Plinkett criticises the PT for are in the OT as well.
E.g., he criticises the tone of the PT, how they routinely switch between silly comic relief, to serious and foreboding, before adventure and action, etc. The original movies do that all the time.
"time has passed" yes. Not a year. There's no indication that it's been anywhere near that long. The natural assumption is that just enough time has passed for them to come up with and implement their plans to try to save Han.
>No need to devolve the argument into SW discussion. Move on.
Your Jedi mind tricks do not work on me
I think Luke's elevation to a competent Jedi is the most telling of how much time has passed. Enough for him to have grown into one, and maybe the original idea was to let the audience come up with their own conclusions on how long that'd take.
That being said, if you'd like another example, the film has a half-built Death Star and that doesn't happen overnight.
The death star is explained simply in the opening text crawl - the empire has been working on it in secret. So we can easily assume they started it immediately after the original one was destroyed.
And yeah, Luke's progression as a Jedi can be a time indicator. The problem is exactly what you just said though. The audience is left to figure out exactly what that means. The audience shouldn't have to pause and put that together. It necessarily means there's an initial moment of "wait, so now Luke is a Jedi? How much time passed? How much time does it take to be a Jedi? Did I miss something?"
Sure, you will quickly explain it away and say "I guess however much time it takes has passed..." But if the film was made better, you wouldn't have to stop and wonder this in the first place. I'm not saying it's a huge deal or ruins the movie or anything. But it is a flaw.
STOP TALKING ABOUT STAR WARS!
RRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>The audience shouldn't have to pause and put that together. It necessarily means there's an initial moment of "wait, so now Luke is a Jedi? How much time passed? How much time does it take to be a Jedi? Did I miss something?"
This is completely reaching. As someone who clearly remembers watching RoTJ, that never crossed my mind. When Luke showed off his new force powers, I knew time had elapsed. I didn't go "wait, what did I miss?!".
None of this is comparable to your original Batman's tone change justification so I still don't understand why you keep devolving this into a criticism of RoTJ.
Star Wars > DC thread
You would prefer it if we talked about show shitty the DCEU is some more?
yes, its funnier. The never ending star wars sequels are just depressing
>Batman kills thugs, both directly and indirectly throughout the whole movie
>Premeditates the murder of Superman, his whole mind set on killing him
>About to kill Superman, but through the mutual parent name Martha realizes that he's not just killing an alien monster but a man who was raised human. By KILLING another person, by taking away the family of another like Joe Chill took his family away, Batman realizes the monster he's become. By sparing Superman and having this moment of humanity brought back to him, the light inside Batman is restored
>He then brutally murders 15 people in a warehouse, throwing what WOULD be decent character growth out the window for a cool action scene
>Now hes a quirky quipster even though hes killed like 2 dozen people
Actually I'm not the guy who originally justified the tone change, I'm agreeing that the tone change is bad, and pointing out that it's bad from Empire to Jedi too. My first post on the topic was this one. As to why I keep making it about Star Wars... I don't. I just keep replying to people's posts. Normally when you are having a conversation about something with other people the topic organically shifts and progresses as one thing leads to another. The discussion of tone change between Batman movies naturally led into this discussion of tone change between Star Wars movies. If that bothers you all you have to do is stop participating in it.
I remember very distinctly thinking it seemed odd that Luke was so different at the beginning of Jedi when I first saw it as a kid. If you weren't paying enough attention to notice, that's fine, but there are very legitimate questions about it which I've already raised. I always assumed that Jedi began relatively quickly after Jedi for exactly those reasons which you still haven't justified. Why would they wait so long to go after Han? Why did Boba Fett stay at the palace that whole time after delivering his bounty? Why would Luke dick around training by himself instead of going back to Yoda, if he wasn't saving Han in the interim? These things imply very little time elapsed between the movies and that was what I naturally picked up on the first time I saw it, which is why I found the implications that Luke had changed a lot already so jarring.
This. This is the most retarded argument I've ever heard. The entire POINT of you being introduced to Jedi Luke is to show how much he's grown as a warrior.
The only real flaw in that scene was that godawful kick.
I can't understand why everybody thinks in DBZ linear powerlevels nowadays.
"Well Luke should have had an arc showing him ascending to full Jedi in the hyperbolic time chamber!"
Fucking retarded.
>I always assumed that Jedi began relatively quickly after Jedi
*after empire. serves me right for going too fast.
dont forget he seems not to care that the Joker murdered robin
>When people get PTSD shocked into realizing they're a shitter they immediately turn into bastions of goodness and Doing The Right Thing
>Ignoring that he was desperately trying to save a woman mere MOMENTS from being murdered by Lex Luthor's henchmen
You have caught a case of terminal retardation.
This isn't a RoTJ criticism thread. Take your derails somewhere else.
No. Now I definitely won't, just to piss you off.
Yeah I'm morbidly curious how the fuck they're gonna explain how Batman has killed bad guys left and right, yet Joker is still alive.
>spares Lex
>spares Joker
>kills random henchman #3 for no reason
bravo Snyder
So wait. You're saying that Batman realizing that Superman was basically a human and that he'd been mericilessly killing other PEOPLE isnt enough of a reason for him to change and NOT kill those warehouse people like the old days of being Batman, but Superman dying is enough for him to become a quipster? This is why movies like Batman V Superman are so fucking retarded, because they need to be peddled to people like you.
Batman should have realized the error of his ways and taken out the warehouse Arkham style. REAL Arkham style, no killing. Like he did for 20 FUCKING YEARS. But no, off screen development and lots of quirky quips!
This shit is unforgivable. How can Zack not figure out how stupid this makes Batman look?
>Batman suddenly forgets killing 2 dozen people because the response to how shitty the DCeU has been is forcing DC into a corner
But the characters weren't out of character. Just in a different setting and plot.
The whole reason why Batman stops killing is because Superman's mother has the same name as his.
Except he doesnt, because the warehouse scene is after the Martha scene
>Like the old days of being Batman
The ones he tried and didn't do anything? At all?
The man had been pushed to his fucking limit watching his city get raped over and over by the same dipshits he was leaving alive and relatively unharmed. He saw a being that was so powerful it was thought NOBODY could stop him, naturally this would terrify a man who has spent his life seeing the fucking worst parts of humanity.
How can you be this autistic? This movie was fucking basic and STILL retards like you manage to fuck it up.
Also again, those "warehouse people" were about 5 seconds away from setting Martha Kent ON FUCKING FIRE judging by that flamethrower canister, he had no time to do anything but blast his ass into the window and run to her. Hence his ridiculous jet stunt.
Your suggestion is actually much more retarded, that he suddenly gets a reset and goes "WELL NOW MAGICALLY I CAN DO NON-VIOLENTLY WHAT I WAS DOING BEFORE VIOLENTLY WITH THE SAME EFFICIENCY". It took time and Superman's example of being a hero despite everything the world was throwing at him to help him start to change.
>Change him into a quipster
That was Martha. All he says to her is that he's with her son. You know, in case a goddamn armored man shitting on several goons might be intimidating to an old farmer's wife.
To add to this, one of his greatest friends and his ward, Robin, got fucking killed by one of these same psychos he was leaving alive.
And if you're about to ask me "WELL HOW IS BATMAN GOING TO JUST STOP KILLING PEOPLE IN THE JUSTICE LEAGUE"
He has teammates now/again.
Not him, but calm down autismo.
>The ones he tried and didn't do anything? At all?
>The man had been pushed to his fucking limit watching his city get raped over and over by the same dipshits he was leaving alive and relatively unharmed. He saw a being that was so powerful it was thought NOBODY could stop him, naturally this would terrify a man who has spent his life seeing the fucking worst parts of humanity.
>How can you be this autistic? This movie was fucking basic and STILL retards like you manage to fuck it up.
All irrelevant to his post.
>Also again, those "warehouse people" were about 5 seconds away from setting Martha Kent ON FUCKING FIRE judging by that flamethrower canister, he had no time to do anything but blast his ass into the window and run to her. Hence his ridiculous jet stunt.
He did not have this perception. Furthermore, he could have taken them down without killing them. He's Batman.
>Your suggestion is actually much more retarded, that he suddenly gets a reset and goes "WELL NOW MAGICALLY I CAN DO NON-VIOLENTLY WHAT I WAS DOING BEFORE VIOLENTLY WITH THE SAME EFFICIENCY". It took time and Superman's example of being a hero despite everything the world was throwing at him to help him start to change.
So you agree, that he has no visible character arc?
>That was Martha. All he says to her is that he's with her son. You know, in case a goddamn armored man shitting on several goons might be intimidating to an old farmer's wife.
>Martha changed batman into a quipster
Wew.
ok, but why is the Joker still alive and not even in prison?
>any sort of comic book film thread
>kino kino kino
>smear campaign
>NO IM RIGHT YOURE WRONG
>NO YOURE WRONG IM RIGHT
when will reddit leave?
>any sort of thread on the internet
fixed that for you.
This is simple human nature.
The days he tried to do anything and is going back to because hes the fucking good guy. HES GOING BACK TO BEING BATMAN. YA KNOW. THE ONE WHO DOESNT KILL PEOPLE. Its official, youre fucking retarded.
Batman could have nuetralized the entire warehouse. This is a Batman who cgi runs across walls faster than shotguns and cant be shot in the fuckin head. He gets shaken by Martha, realizes he was a killer this whole time, and ponies up to save his fucking city again while not killing anyone. But no, skip the visible arc and have an unseen one and you justify his change. Fuck off.
And no Martha doesnt start the quipping, the writers are stuck in a fucking corner.
I felt like you could just bullshit yourself into thinking "well maybe those guys survived that explosion" because you never really see a "death scene" for any of the badguys. Like in the cartoons people get thrown off of things or blown up but always make it through (this is a comic book movie afterall).
But that unrated version where the one guy's head leaves a blood smear on the wall is pretty fucked up lol.
The cycle of people he left alive constantly breaking out of prison was part of what pushed him over the edge, you know how Joker breaks out, because of Harley. As to why he's alive, Ayer confirmed it was Batman that beat the fuck out of him, so I imagine that was probably the start of his downfall. If you're asking why he wasn't murdering him during the course of BvS, he considered a god alien a bigger threat than someone he already knew he could kick the shit out of.
I'm not saying it's perfect, and some of these ideas were clearly stitched together as confirmed by Ayer having to tell you himself where the Joker got his teeth (since the rest of his retarded outfit would just make you assume it was more nigger impersonating), but the pieces are all present.
It is relevant, because to understand how he'd changed, you first had to understand how he'd gotten fucked up. It took Batman attacking a GOOD person for him to see how far he'd really fallen. Thugs were what sent him down the path in the first place, why would he snap out of it by killing them when that was his entire motivation?
It wasn't until Superman he realized that doing one inevitably leads to doing the other.
>As to why he's alive, Ayer confirmed it was Batman that beat the fuck out of him
you know what would be nice? SEEING THAT. All the fucking character development in these movies happens of screen or is in some deleted/unfilmed/fictional scene
>why would he snap out of it by killing them when that was his entire motivation?
Exactly so what changes him??
>It wasn't until Superman he realized that doing one inevitably leads to doing the other.
It wasn't at this point because he kills thugs in the next scene.
>He's the fucking good guy
And it took almost killing another good guy for him to realize this.
How has this not sunk in yet? Batman in this universe isn't perfect, he's fallen from the hero he was and is redeemed by Superman's overwhelming moral fortitude in the face of basically the entire world, batman included, hating him.
>Batman could have neutralized the entire warehouse
Conjecture and speculation, can neither be confirmed or denied, this is a pointless waste of time for both of our sides of this argument. If you want to interpret it as poor continuity you may, but your evidence of "Other Batmans have done it" is pretty goddamn weak.
>Conjecture and speculation, can neither be confirmed or denied
It's... Fucking... Batman...
Of course he fucking can. Just kill yourself. The man just took down fucking Superman.
>le snyder is the writer meme
when will this die
I should have specified "Until Superman's death", since that's the part where Bruce actually makes his speech at the end and has his turning point.
My mistake. I didn't mean the "Martha" scene. That was merely the catalyst and beginning of his recovery. His very next act was to save an innocent from a bad person, something he hadn't done in a while judging by BvS. It wasn't instant, it was a process. Seeing Superman die for the very people that tried to kill him changed his mind about what a hero was.
Totally agree, but I think SS was a stupid movie to even exist yet in the first place so I can't help you on that front. It's inconsistent and it's clearly because SS was an experiment to see if WB could try "villain movies" to offer something Marvel didn't, because frankly many of the DC villains are just as iconic as their heroes.
That and Marvel will never have the balls to do anything like a Dr. Doom movie, even if they got the rights back.
No other Batman has run across walls faster than shotguns or been shot point fucking blank in the head, we're shown an invincible and infallible badass that beats Superman to a pulp. Its not fucking conjecture, ITS SHOWN ON THE SCREEN. How can you have such circular logic? Fucking retards I swear
If this was supposed to be the quintessential DC U, how do they fuck up all the characters. Aquaman doesnt even look like Aquaman. The took their most popular character, Batman, and they change a one very important aspect of his character to try to make him edgier. They cast Gal as Wonder Woman who could be their best chance at getting women in the door. Not only does Gal not look like wonder woman, but shes a terrible actress. Cavill was actually well cast. The Joker is beyond saving.
They have tried to do all this experiemental stuff when they should have given people the characters they've come to love. The way they were meant to be, what made them popular in the first place. You basically get one shot to establish aa cinematic universe and they wasted it trying to make stylish variants instead of classics.
I want a proper Dr. Doom so badly
"It's Batman"
That's not an argument.
>He just took down fucking Superman
Given huge amounts of time to prepare for a fight SPECIFICALLY AGAINST Superman. He had 0 time to prepare and was walking in blind to a hostage situation.
He's a smart, rich human being, not an anime character you lunatic.
>these types of "debates" still actually happen
>in 2017
Painful to behold.
More so they desperately wanted to catch up to Marvel and tried to make as many movies as fast as they could, and really blew it
>Beats Superman to a pulp
So you didn't even watch the movie. Superman basically didn't even fight him. The entire time he was trying to convince him to STOP fighting.
>Hes a human being!
Picking grown men up and flinging them, running along walls, batclawing away faster than a beam of light, punching people so hard they break their necks on the floor. All ridiculous considering hes in a muscle suit. Just end it
They just don't know what to do.
It would be sad if it werent so funny