Is rap poetic? Give examples please

Thoughts? This was taken from /lit/

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genius.com/Busdriver-imaginary-places-lyrics
genius.com/Big-pun-twinz-deep-cover-98-lyrics
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Only Aesop Rock

Poetry and rap are both shit

he makes some good points but i'd say he has to listen to more underground artists... you can compare the two better at that point

how 'bout you don't give opinions?

>yo alien TUBA test TUBE
>I wanna make an equation to caculate your BOOBS
>scientific philosophical raps I spit combustion
>chameleon skink likes giving koalas moxibustion
>yo yo atomic super extraterrestrial hyperphobic trill
>mayo in a jar neon green thesaurus grill
true pottery

True

>listent o underground duude
No. If you really want to compare rap to the kind of poetry /lit/fag is talking about, on the terms of that kind of poetry, there is nothing that rises above the level of an absolute joke. On the other hand, /lit/fag is being unfair by pretending that Yeats represents all poetry. There's tons of poetry that's just as low effort and garbage as rap lyrics.

>Ghiath Matar is dead
>Roses are not armour
>In my neighbourhood, it was become a poet or a farmer
>Welcome back avatar, Mevlevi whirling while I'm boiling a pacifier
>Hold thyself like J'zargo in Winterhold
Reality, I'm in Fargo reading dinner poems
>Wincing at the virtue signaling
>Jejune is Dirk Diggler staring at the ceiling post-coitus
>Swerving through moral detours most boistrous
>Black beans and deco spilt on my loafers
>I'm back on my Black Bukowski bullshit
>Fuck your notepad, wrote a poem with a toolkit
>Shocking moment as the pupil thought
"me and my niggas is a school of thought"
>Shocking moment as the pupil thought
"me and my niggas is a school of thought"

sounds pretty thoroughly racist and ignorant to me. you can surely claim such about rap in general but not ALL of rap

whoever wrote that post is clearly versed in poetry and it's intricacies, and clearly not when it comes to rap. there are levels of complexity that they're not picking up on (ironic given that they claim the same about young readers of poetry).

appreciating poetry in the way they describe requires that you are familiar with its esotiricisms. the same is true of quality poetic rap. entry-level art does not require this of the consumer.

the largest distinction to be made here is that in rap entry-level lyricism is often celebrated whereas in poetry it is almost exclusively viciously criticized.

>what she order?
>fish filet
damn

you're kinda right although both sides make good points they're not entirely wrong
the thing is besides technical stuff both (some) raps and (some) poems can be as expressive

>there are levels of complexity that they're not picking up on
Examples?
>requires that you are familiar with its esotiricisms. the same is true of quality poetic rap
Examples of these "esotericisms"?
>muh WACISM
Fuck off
>entry-level
Give examples of top tier rap lyrics then, and let's compare them to OP's poetry example.

could you imagine being confident enough in your literary analysis skills to start getting into some random yeats poem and yet completely discounting the fact that the same analysis skills could probably be applied to rap lyrics

>Examples?
genius.com/Busdriver-imaginary-places-lyrics
and this is one his fairly easier to understand ones

That's all fine and good, but was Yeats ever capable of making his poetry sound good over a beat?

uh... that's not the point of poetry

"a 16 year-old kid from the projects" is incapable of operating at the same level as professorial white irish dude = racism

Poetry is watered down and pretentious. It doesn't truly portray the feelings of the author, as he has top make it sound "poetic". Mozart use to write scat poetry, yet that would make him impossible to become big. Do you really think other poets were mesmerized by the "stars in the eyes" of a girl, or did they truly like her tits and ass. When rappers talk about bitches, asses, tits and sex, they truly say what they mean. In a way

"Your titties, let em out, free at last
Thank God almighty, they free at last"

is one of the most genius avant-garde post-modernist lines human race has known. Kanye didn't care about what pretentious critics or "artsy" college kids would think, he said it because he meant it. Yeezus is a breakdown of what "poetry" is. They talk about riches, drugs, sex and money, because that's their life. Not everything has to be a metaphor for and ancient Greek deity or cherry blossoms. Their true feelings aren't hidden behind a wall of ostentatious garbage, but are right there on the paper.

On the other hand, rappers use of the most intricate rhyme schemes, homophones, anaphoras, similies, acrostics and so on. Rap is a deconstruction of poetry, and it's logical conclusion.

That's perfectly reasonable and not "racism". A 16 year old from any situation would be unlikely to be on the same level of linguistic complexity and subtlety as a middle aged university educated, professional poet. A 16 year old from an economic class and environment in which he's likely to have had substandard education, even for a 16 year old, is even less likely.

Well ok, but competing with the type of "capital P poetry" that Yeats did isn't the point of Hip Hop. Yeats poems would be trash as Hip Hop tracks, just like Hip Hop tracks are trash as standalone poems.

this
also
genius.com/Big-pun-twinz-deep-cover-98-lyrics

rap has achieved degrees of sonic complexity that poetry has never approached. and good luck dismissing the value of sonic qualities given the massive prominence and importance they've always had in poetry.

>12 replies
>no mention of eyedea

>sounds pretty thoroughly racist

That is a very wrong point of view.
It's true that honesty is valuable, you shouldn't completely ditch the emotion a complex poem conveys. there are different ways of saying the same thing and sometimes a more intellectual way touches you deeper and more effectively and you probably never forget that feeling.
i agree there pretentious poems that only try to "look" like a poem, but there actually is a point to being complex if it's handled correctly.

Lines like these are infinitely more powerful than the pretentious dreck that the average, modern poet talks about.

Andre 3000. Everything that guy does is poetic. Also, Lauryn Hill.

true

the argument that you are making is certainly valid and not racist. but nonetheless i'd claim that the OP image reeks of racism in its tone.... he could have simply made this an argument about age as you have but chose to reference "the projects" the the Nobel Prize... highly racialized terms / histories...

Are you for real, nigger?

it's hilarious how phobic of the term "racism" Sup Forums is.... in my day to day life im one of the least PC people by far but bringing up the possibility of legit racism on this site always elicits an emotional reaction

yes what's your counterargument

i would add the its racist by virtue of dismissing a markedly black culture w/out caring to investigate its actual qualities and merits, rather choosing to assume that a european tradition (poetry) is inherently superior

lit? moar liek shit amirite

>>>/reddit/

Kanye's verse on Hold My Liquor > Yeats' entire body of work

>>>/always elicits an emotional reaction/

/thread

The mention of the projects is relevant and not racist. It's the same as the point I raised about likelihood of a lack of education. The reference to the Nobel Prize is also relevant and not racist. It's an illustration that Yeats is not only a professional poet, but one regarded extremely highly even among other professional poets, which makes it even less likely that a 16 year old from the projects would be on his level linguistically.
>tone
that's a matter of your perception. The argument being made in the image is the exact same one I made. You can say that /lit/fag's words somehow betray some kind of internal racism but you're chasing spectres in the dark. And if /lit/fag is, in fact, racist, but his argument is entirely valid and reasonable, as we've established, then why does his racism matter? How is it relevant?

sure dude everything you just said makes perfect sense when explained to that extent and in that manner. the fact is that the guy we're referencing didn't do such and that, as you said, it's a matter of perception / interpretation.

to my perception the OP image reeks if covert / passive racism, which 4chaners love to discredit but it's a real thing just as class warfare can be covert and passive.

it matters because if racism informed his argument, whether consciously or subconsciously, then it will propagate more racism and more dumbasses dismissing and demeaning a predominantly black culture for ignorant reasons.

>it matters because I care about some societal thing about racism
Ok, but it's irrelevant to the question "Is his argument correct", which is all I'm talking about, and what this thread is about.

but rappers usually go for the funnier way to express feelings.

"Cause opinions are assholes; They full of shit
And everybody's got one, if not they trying to cop one"

While the rapper here is trying to complain about how critics don't understand his craft, he also puts in a witty way, or

"Couldn't buy a car, so she named her daughter Alexis"

In this story , a girl is poor from student loans, and she can't afford a car, but she has a child. It could've been put in a sentimental way, but the wordplay makes it more memorable.

The only poetic side about rap is the poetic aftermath of rap culture submerging city blocks and whole cities like Detroit into destruction, rape, theft, and poverty, from chimpout rap monkeys going apeshit.
Rap reduces IQ, whether musical or social.

Rap should be banned while jazz and such good shit brought back to save the black community.

are you the same guy? why the hell did you want to talk about racism for that long then. and his argument is wrong regardless of if the post has a racist tone. see and respond to one of my previous posts if you want to discuss that

Rap is the capeshit of music.

you could make that argument about the (general) current direction of rap but if you're claiming that to be the overarching / definitive / single narrative of rap then you're just hugely ignorant to its history. look up the bronx in the 70s if you want to see real "destruction, rape, theft, and poverty"

I am the same guy. I talked about racism for this long so I could eventually end up at this point where I could illustrate to you why your complaint of "racism" was offtopic, and warranted my initial reply of "fuck you". You decided to bring up an inflammatory personal issue that's irrelevant to the thread.

>his argument is wrong
Huh? I thought we were in agreement at this point that the argument is completely reasonable. If you've made any arguments that it's wrong, I didn't see them. Please paste them or quote them so I can respond.

I can think of one (1) russian rapper who can write poetic lyrics.

are you claiming that rap doesn't live up to Poetry or that Poetry is simply a superior / more quality art form?

I'm claiming this:

I can think of 0 poetic polish """rappers""", that get millions of views

>nothing that rises above the level of an absolute joke
this is where i disagree with you. seems like you dont have much knowledge or appreciation of rap. as i said the sonic complexities of quality rap are highly impressive and would surely be appreciated by non-snobbish poets, especially when said quality rap also has a compelling tone and message which has been accomplished many time. don't confuse modern popular rap music with quality, lyrical rap music. again:

the largest distinction to be made here is that in rap entry-level lyricism is often celebrated whereas in poetry it is almost exclusively viciously criticized.

The only good rap is rap that makes fun of rap.

i hope you're joking. that's just another crutch if done poorly

>Hip Hop tracks are trash as standalone poems.
Not true by the way
They can work in both text form and as acpellas also

Took only seven posts for someone to use the word "racist". I expected no less from Sup Forums.

>muh format
>muh quatrains
>muh composition and structure of words

i'd like to see /lit/fags try to compose a song with 'poetic' lyrics that matches up to None Shall Pass, an accessible and lyrical rap song by Aesop Rock, that doesn't sound like dogshit. Protip: they can't. Because they can't compose for SHIT. Bottomline is: poetry as rap songs -> shit without good production, rythm, etc.; rap as poetry -> shit without structure and form

...

You're taking away the meaning of the word "racism" by using it because of absolutely inane garbage, like someone saying that he thinks rap isn't good poetry. Yes, that person only feels this way because most rap musicians are black. It couldn't possibly be because rap is juvenile garbage made by low IQ people for low IQ people. Why bother actually addressing any of the points of the original argument when you can just use your favorite word because the argument mentioned the projects?
Keep going. Right-wing parties benefit from loonies like you.

>It couldn't possibly be because rap is juvenile garbage made by low IQ (black) people for low IQ (black) people
..you're racist and proving my point

>Why bother actually addressing any of the points of the original argument when you can just use your favorite word because the argument mentioned the projects?
i already did that many times above. why bother reading a thread when you can just assume whatever you want about someone in order to match your cozy understanding of the world? i have no political affiliation and rarely talk about racism but this is a pretty blatant case of it... you're equating black culture with low IQ culture and failing to see your own racism... popular white culture has plenty of stupidity... underground rap has lots of quality and intelligence but you'd never care to look for it would you? that would undermine your worldview

>..you're racist and proving my point
No. You're the racist for seeing "low IQ" as a synonym for "black". EIther that, or your reading comprehension is just very poor There's enough white people, and people of all other races, who produce and listen to such music. They're most likely low IQ as well.

rap is undeniably a markedly black culture, you'd be a dumbass to claim otherwise... and you're calling it a low IQ culture.... this is petty simple... there's nothing inherently wrong with it as an art form aside from the societal impressions you've gleaned of it. your racism is subconscious but still present

Holy shit, American reading comprehension is really one hell of a drug.
Okay, I'll try to explain this to you:
When I talked about "low IQ people", I talked about rap musicians and the people who listen to it. Rap musicians and listeners are NOT a race.
Yes, rap music is associated with black people. But that is NOT the reason why the person in the OP critiziced it.
Rap music and its culture might be influenced by black culture, but they're not synonymous.

>your racism is subconscious but still present
I am a racist, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, none of the points in my previous posts were racist in the slightest.

>Yes, rap music is associated with black people. But that is NOT the reason why the person in the OP critiziced it.
hard to believe this when you just admitted that you're racist and the person in the OP seems similar in this regard

>Rap music and its culture might be influenced by black culture, but they're not synonymous.
i never claimed that they're synonymous, just that the overlap is so huge that by attacking such a characteristically black culture as low IQ odds are you're racist as fuck either deliberately or through ignorance

>racist
my sides

haha american teenagers should be banned from posting on the internet.

>hard to believe this when you just admitted that you're racist and the person in the OP seems similar in this regard
Why is this so hard to get? The person in the OP critized rap because they consider it poor poetry. That's all there is to it. They mentioned the projects, yes, but that's just to emphasize the difference between the backgroud of Yeats and Nas.
I am a racist, yes, but I will still acknowledge when a person of a different race does someting great.

>i never claimed that they're synonymous, just that the overlap is so huge that by attacking such a characteristically black culture as low IQ odds are you're racist as fuck either deliberately or through ignorance
Rap music isn't low IQ because it's black. I never claimed this. It's low IQ because for the most part, it's completely uninteresting musically and lyrically.

I don't have the time to continue this discussion because I have to practice now, but it's pointless anyway because you've been clearly brainwashed by American "education". My advice to you is to stop excusing poor behaviour and performance from other people just because they happen to be part of another race (you did this by calling someone who critized rap lyrics without mentioning the musicians race racist).
You shoud acknowledge the differences between the races and cultures, but also praise good behaviour and performance.

my advice is that you learn to appreciate other cultures and recognize the extent of your own racism

postin few examples

Fuck boy, talkin' out of turn nigga
In the court room, spreadin' like a germ nigga
25 on the line, them niggas droppin' dimes
Cooperation got them rednecks droppin' time
Khaki suits and some niggas go to actin' cute
We was all cool, stackin' in Acura coupes
More accurately, we acted as is if jackin' was cool
Snatchin' niggas out they shoes then wear jackets to school
Fuck boy, you caught up in my dream
Countin' cream on the cover of a magazine
I'm the source, got the plug with the uncut
Jay-Z Blue Magic nigga, what what
Brand new S Class with a meal ticket
Nigga cocaine white as Tommy Hilfiger
Ralph Lauren Blue Label as I'm gettin' high
Triple dream dreamin' as the cream multiples

Fuck boy, talkin' out of turn nigga
'Fore you sell dope, it's shit you gotta learn nigga
Home invasions, duct tape
Fornicatin', countin' money with a fuck face
Fuckin' bitches that be givin' up your whereabouts
Slow leaks, gotta air em out
Kill 'em all, Rolls Royce Ghost nigga, ball
Phantom drop head, shit I had to get em all
Niggas hate but they know they never get involved
Food on the plate, fuck em all, I could send my dog
Triple beam dreams, the ghetto's my reality
I'm from where your hustle determines your salary
Six figure family member, nigga forget about it
Low income housin', nigga tryna get up out it
I got a plan little nigga, just believe in me
Triple beam dreamin' with this thing in me

Truly poetic

I think that isn't claiming that at all, instead they're saying that Hip-Hop and Poetry are just separate things, and therefore should be looked at as separate things. We don't lump still-lifes and portraits together with film. They both share similarities, yes, but their purposes are inherently different, and should be seen as such.

New whip, new shoes, new chain, new wrist
New Russian AK with a very long clip
Old money, dead mans, got my pockets on stiff
Foreign shit, nitro got my engine on drift
Bust down left wrist, Rolex, boss shit
New car, luxury, Maybach, Ross shit
Left foot, right foot, I kick him up and cross him
SRT, high speed, where he at? I lost him

I'm fresh like some fabulo, baby, I'm awesome
A nigga run off with my shit, it's gon' cost him
No stress, hitman, hunt him down, off him
No vest, dumb ass, get put in a coffin
Four leaf clover, money green, Boston
Balmain, blue jeans, you tryna take them off me
You drink soda and I sell soda
You got shooters and I got soldiers

I hit the club, go straight to the back like Rosa
I got my Louis loafers all on the sofa
When you in that field, keep a eye over your shoulder
She got me aroused when she bent that thing over

Bowleg, thick bitch, redbone, lipstick
Ain't no sense in robbin' you if I ain't gon' get shit
When I see my target, I bet I ain't gon' miss shit
Paint job, ice cream, white sheets, breath mint
SK, HK, bullets like fish sticks
Penthouse, balcony, marble floors, rich shit
Blue cheese, disease, diagnose, sick shit
One gear, two gear, three gear, stick shift

This a young street nigga party, how'd you get here?
Come in here and you'll be sorry, split your shit here
I got sniper mans on the roof like a reindeer
Fuck a vest, you gon' need some Teflon head gear

NASCAR, hot rides, burnout, donuts
Lambo, suicide, butterfly doors up
Put your head down and pull your close up
If you broke, better pick a pole up
North side, west side, south side, east side
Come on the west side, you'll get deep fried
These here Balmains, you rock Levi's
I got on Gucci shoes, you rock Filas

So many hoes here, I can't decide
She keep callin', she ain't get a answer or a reply
Bitch, I'm always grindin', iIain't got no free time
Don't call my phone if it ain't 'bout no money, I decline
Gang

I propose one day, we'll be able to procreate naturally and give birth to kids with no mouths
I'm working on the formula as we speak, so there's less talking over recycled loops where cancer played
And these babies aren't born with simple kicks
Snare me a jackal in this tourist trap forest where
The trees bob their heads to the wind chimes and cowbells are milked for perfect cadence
Fuck the beat without a prophylactic, come all over it's skin
Sex symbols tired of being hit on, this fucking place makes me claustrophobic
So during dreams I stage dive into a moshpit of despair
And crowdsurf using my boredom as the vehicle
I ride wavelengths looking for the high score but the only judges are myself
Wondering why I haven't gone insane by the lack of material
Too stubborn to be something I'm not
This man isn't the same, he's half the man he used to be
Half assed, half I-don't-know, you pick a title
Grab a thesaurus, regret has many other alternatives
I'll talk to you and hang up my life on the cord
Jump out the window of opportunity into open arms who close topics when they need to
I need a reassurance and a hole in my head so I can show you how I'm feeling
When doves cry, I'll be on the roof with a rifle killing those motherfuckers for fun
Eating popcorn and drinking a 44 oz soda
You can't tell me, actually you can but I don't listen, I pretend to
Earwax canal, q-tips beating my ear drums
Vibration, equilibrium; off
Sensitivity; on, pull the plug
Life support of my thoughts; flatlining
Foot to the floorboard, accelerate this machine into a brick wall tagged with clear and concise notions of the truth
Graffiti stained underwear, no shit