Daily Japanese Thread - DJT # 1897

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
djtguide.neocities.org/

Discussion of the Japanes

Previous thread:

Other urls found in this thread:

www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/k10011108021000/k10011108021000.html
twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q="あっつってる"&src=typd
dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/147762/meaning/m1u/って/
kotobank.jp/word/って-572021
twitter.com/AnonBabble

niconiconi

Still can't decide, should I confidently take N3 or try for N2? They seem to have a lot of overlap. I probably know all the N3 and a decent number of N2 kanji and there doesn't seem to be that much grammar left to learn considering it's relatively easy to pick up.

Would it show up on my certificate that I barely passed N2 or does it just say I passed?

To Japanon from last thread:
The way the brain recognizes sounds is similar to muscle memory. If you can't make a sound, it's difficult to even hear it. If you can't even properly hear English's sounds and you're trying to study it, all you're doing is bombarding your brain with defective mental representations of some fixed phrases in a way that will never result in fluency. Learn the international phonetic alphabet and work your ass off to master every English sound and consonant cluster and your speaking skills, listening comprehension and everything else will skyrocket. I went through this myself in learning English and later Arabic. It's an absolutely necessary step with languages which have more complex phonology than your native language or you'll be stuck in a trivial learner's stage forever.

A certificate is a certificate, my man. Not even Japanese people would be nasty enough to slap a test score on it.
Otherwise, I'm in the same dilemma. Life hurts.

They mail you two pieces of paper, one is the plain ol' certificate, which says you passed, and then there's another one with the scores on it.

Also I'm in the same situation as you two.

I think I may end up taking the N3 just because I got Jap heritage myself and am trying to get university/government sponsorship for my study/to study there some time, hopefully. The problem is that outside of knowing Arabic and some other easy European languages, I'm fairly unproven, especially since I'm working on my own here and have no teacher to vouch for me. N3 may be proof enough that I'm confident at teaching myself—N2 would obviously be better but if I fail I have to wait six months.

スパマも一度に2ところを攻撃することはできないな。ここは安全だけどJapanese スレが占領されたよ。

Guess I'll risk N2 since I really have no reason to be doing these aside from personal challenge.

You need N1 to get scholarships, at least from the Japanese govt.

>Japanese スレが占領されたよ
いつもだよ~(＾ω＾)

フランス人がヨーロッパ言語を習う感じが韓国人が日本語を習う感じかな?ちょっと違いがあるだろうけど。

My target is the French gov't.

>フランス人がヨーロッパ言語を習う感じ
>ちょっと違いがあるだろうけど

ヨーロッパ言語にはロマンス諸語も入るだろうからぜんぜん違うんじゃね?

あ、ごめんを読んでなかった
習うときの感じかたかと思った

うん、難しくない。もう1ヶ国語を習いたかったら、五、六時間国境まで運転できるよ。言語でも多くのフランス人は、我が言語が世界最高の言語だと思う。飽きたよ。

ここでは誰もが、フランス語はもう国際的な言語になると思うそう。僕にも英語より我が言語が好きだけど、それは決して起こらないだろう。

フランス人は自国に対する自負心が大きいな。。

ここでもそんなほらがあるよ。ハングルが世界一の文字とか韓国人は世界で僅かな優れる人種とかって根拠ない言葉ら。だからこういうひどい優越主義に拒否感を見せる人だちが多い。フランス人もそう?

他の欧米国より大きいだろう。これにはいいこと、悪いことがある。自国に対する自負心がいいものだと思う:そのおかげで、この国はアメリカのようじゃないね。でも狭量が大嫌いよ。

そう。全ては大戦前時代の懐古だよ。

E>J translation of Harry Potter.
>After what seemed like hours
>何時間も経ったかと思われる頃
Is that line a normal-sounding Japanese phrase or an awkward-ish translation?

really no expert, but personally I think they may went a tad too literal on this one

Is there a way to migrate my anki deck to my phone along with my current progress?

make an ankiweb account and log in to your desktop with that account. then press the sync button next to the stats one.

how are your studies going?
the last time I noticed a South African in these threads was months ago

i restarted よつばと. Struggled too much last time to remember the vocab i learned. Doing RTK now aswell. It's going good, I'm in a good routine now

>I'm in a good routine now
すいすい~
good to hear, maybe RTK will help overall

RTKってなんですか?

Remembering the Kanji
漢字の意味を覚えやすくするために、文字一つ一つに物語を作る作戦

はえ~そんなんあるんか
がいじんさんも大変だの~

>pretending to be Japanese
a bit sad

N2準備で一日に単語10個なら足りると思うの?それとももっと増えせなければならないか?どうすべきなの?

Obviously depends on when you take the test. But 10 words a day is pretty pathetic, at least until you're at the point where it takes a lot of work just to find more than 10 new words a day.

You're right... I was about to increase the amount of words from now on anyway. Thank for advice

thanks, Africa-kun

by the way, I use this app called Kotoba, which is pretty much just more vocabulary.
Has anyone else tried it?

I use Obenkyo for Kanji draw/recognition practice.

>by the way, I use this app called Kotoba
I just downloaded it and I have to say it looks pretty nice, definitely will spend time on this one

raもlaもラ
baもvaもバ(ヴァは表記が違うだけで同じ音)
すっ
まあ、仏語は外交用語として世界語だった時代があったのは事実だから。
直しておくぜ。
*自国に対する自負心は、いいものだと思う:そのおかげで、この国はアメリカのようじゃないんだよ。でも狭量なのが大嫌いだね。
いいものだと思う→悪いものではない
狭量な→度量が小さい
とすれば、もっと自然
その「頃」は、「頃合」ということ。
おかしな訳だとは思われない。
敢て言えば、
「何時間も経ったかと思えた頃に」
で、その「思われる」は話者の主観の可能で意味的には推定
あっさりと訳せば
何時間かの後(に)/数時間かの様に思えた後(に)

ただ、訳にはcontextが必要なので、その句だけではわかるものではない。
in what seemed like a blink of an eye
瞬く間に(まばたくまに)
We sat there without a word for what seemed like hours but was really only a couple of minutes.
黙って座っていたのは何時間かの様に思えたが、実は、ほんの2分程だった
南アもNZもJTにおいで、やっとSpamが削除されたぜ。
まあ、また来るだろうが

間違ったAUだった

日本は世界で一番嫌われてる国だと思い込んで生きて来たけど、大人になったら案外そうでも無いとわかった。
これって他の国にもあること?

アメリカ人はアメリカが一番えらくてすごい国だと思い込んで疑わないんですよ
俺たち凄すぎて他の国に嫉妬されて嫌われてるけどしょうがないね、などと思ってるんです
大人になっても覚めない幻想

Fucking weeabbos.

nippon banzai mother fucker.

>ths is war guilt information program victim
silly pathetic jap

そうか。。
世界でたったひとつでも日本に好意的な国があると知ったときの感動は今でも忘れない。
この楽しみを少しでも分け与えてあげられると良いね。

Can someone translate "you will never learn japanese if you don't stop wasting time" in japanese for me so I can photoshop it in all my waifu backgrounds? not that it'll actually make me learn japanese, but at least i'll feel worse

(i obviously can't translate it by myself but I can learn the words and grammar in a day at most)

ainda bem que esse termo de sequelado mental nao pegou no br

www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/k10011108021000/k10011108021000.html
>日本に宅配便の会社が新鮮な野菜や魚を届ける
Is it 新鮮な(野菜や魚) or (新鮮な野菜)や魚

もし時間を無駄にしますから、日本語を習いません

>しますから
Doesn't から take the plain form?

辞書系?

I mean, use ので if you want to be more polite, but から attaches to ます系 just fine. 辞書系 is definitely more poetic and used in songs/sayings/poems, like in '自分を信じる'.

>but から attaches to ます系 just fine.
Oh ok, it's just that the DoJG didn't mention that using ます was fine

Probably to do with the way you build a foundation in the language. から is relatively basic grammar, so if you were learning plain form ahead of ます系, it's likely that examples using it wouldn't feature.

Like the guide says, you either:

Learn the way that language schools/classes/textbooks want foreigners to learn (ます系, ローマ字, 会話日本語)...

...or, you build a foundation out of 辞書系, grammar, vocabulary, kanji and reading, delaying your ability to use conversational Japanese but making it easier to learn.

Went out with some Japanese friends last night, I did alright with my conversation but holy shit if they talk among themselves I can hardly tell if it's Japanese. Then I get asked a question in a conversation I'm totally lost in and I can't even explain exactly what part I don't understand because I understood barely 10%.

無理だ
できない

it says S.informal and never mentions ます

DoJG is bad

It does mention it in the notes at least.

See the notes below

not only does it obscure it, it's wrong too

Elaborate.

it only says that it may be possible to say ~ますから in "very formal speech" which is wrong

It says it's usually in the informal form. It also notes that in very formal speech, you may see it in the formal form. It does not forbid the formal form in general, although the next note does show an example where it can't be used.

it specifies that it's in the informal form. then it says that it's usually in the informal form but lists a single exception. it doesn't just say it's usually in the informal form, it starts at the stance that the construction uses the informal form.

I'm pretty sure every conjunctive particle that attaches to the 終止形 final form can take ます just fine.
しますと
しますけど
しますが
しますから
Conjunctive particles that attach to the 連体形 noun-modifying form can also take it
しますので
しますのに
Although ~ますのに sounds a little odd to me so maybe not that one.
I think the final particle の can also take it but it sounds kind of stiff to me.

Fuck of sakubi autist, you don't know shit.

who?

Are you that guy who wasted two years transcribing DoJG?

It's time to move on.

Does staying in this thread for too long cause mental illness, or are mentally ill people naturally drawn to it?

mentally ill people gravitate to generals

Jesus Christ fuck me, I quit my job and went back to school thinking I have more time for learning Japanese.
But holy shit I have to relearn so much stuff, especially in math, that I barely have time to learn Japanese.
How do you guys do it? Is my time management that bad? Shit what should I do?

I planned on getting N3 this December, but I don't have time to learn, I think wouldn't make it.
Fuck this, I wanted to go for the Business Management East Asia degree next year but I need good grades and at least N3.
死にたい。

I tried to keep studying Japanese during my third year electrical and both subjects suffered. The cards I did during that time I had to re learn after the fact.

Considering poor grades in class had real life consequences I always did that first and whatever Japanese I was still able to after.

おはようございますDJT

In the guide under grammar reference, which option would gibe me some information on transitive and intransitive?

I've been reading Sakubi's grammar guide but, should I start reading that early even if I don't have a firm grasp with some particles?

>Sakubi

Hello Japan

>the Business Management East Asia degree

なにこれ

reading is how you get that firm grasp on those particles

twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q="あっつってる"&src=typd
What does "なあっつってる" mean?
I found that "っつってる" means "と言っている", but how else do people use it?

Fuck, forgot to remove sage

な≈なあ
A word used in calling and pushing.

Yeah, but I still don't get it. Is it for emphasis or something?
For example, what does "なるほどなあっつってる" translate to?

i think that な include admiration.

it's literally untranslatable sorry bud

サクバンプ

unless you need the n3 for something there is no reason to take anything less than n2.

Can you modify a noun with と言う to make a phrase like "person/thing that says X"?

For me I can't really think of any other use of って in pic related, it seems like it's gotta be という and not と/というのは/ということは. I know that you can make relative clauses with という like あなたが好きだという気持 "Feelings that I like you," but I don't think that exact interpretation works here - it's still a relative clause, just 言う is actually included as a thing the noun does, as in 歩く人 = person that walks. Basically, I'm wondering if という in this situation can mean something like "appearance that says 'Halloween'," because typically a relative clause structured the same exact way would mean "appearance which is Halloween," which doesn't make sense.

Anyway, let me know what use という has here and what ハロウィンって格好 means.

If I'm getting something wrong please let me know.

I think this って (と言う) is similar to らしい, so your translation is alright, since your usage of "says" isn't really literal.

Alright my first time being able to write all the basic hiragana purely from memory.
Any suggestions on my handwriting style? I wrote this at an average pace; not rushing but not super meticulous.
I'm afraid my "fu" and "so" might not be very good.

Can you link me to a grammar resource that says という can act like らしい so I can read more about this and have something concrete to reference?

Any know a fun japanese iphone game to play?

dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/147762/meaning/m1u/って/
>上の語または文が、次に来る語の内容説明であることを表す。
Expresses that the previous word or phrase is an explanation of the contents of the word that comes next.
>「山田様って方ご存じですか」
Do you know a person named Yamada?
Do you know a "Yamada" person?

kotobank.jp/word/って-572021
>「日本って国は狭いね」
This "Japan" country is pretty small, huh?
>「そんじょそこらにあるって品物じゃないよ」
It's not a "you can find it laying around anywhere" kind of thing, you know.

>ハロウィンって格好
A "Halloween" kind of outfit

I'm going to be really picky here, but bear with me.

お the final stroke is a bit further down
か should be more of a smooth first stroke, not stepped
き has a gap between the top vertical stroke and the bottom "c" part
け the bottom of the left is a hook
こ the top right should be hooked
さ gap between the top and bottom "c"
せ hook on the bottom of the right vertical stroke
た hook on the right (similar to こ)
に hook on the left (like け) and the right (like こ)
ぬ no need for the flourish on the end
ね is... kind of a mess
は no need for the flourish
ふ try making a hook at the top and one solid stroke down the middle
み the top is roughly straight across and the loop is a solid curve, no fancy cursive Q stuff
む the line goes through the top
め the curve to the right should end at the same level as the rest of the character
や the line is a bit too far to the right
ゆ the last stroke goes all the way through
よ don't cross through, don't need a flourish
ら hook the top (like ふ)
り the hook on the left is a little too exaggerated
わ shouldn't be so close to connecting at the bottom

But, all this said, your handwriting is actually pretty decent, especially for a beginner. It's more than legible and fairly easy to distinguish between similar-looking characters.

If you want to see more examples of natural hiragana, search "ひらがな 手書き" in Google to get plenty of variety. Good luck!

Wow thank you for this very detailed insight user. I'll work on your suggested changes.
I guess I made the mistake of mixing up fonts. I was working mostly out of Genki I but took stroke orders and font for a few characters from pic related (hence my font for きさ and others).

Is it bad to mix fonts like this?

Looks like the chart from wikipedia is based on computer fonts rather than handwriting. Those vary slightly (namely with さ and き) from typical handwriting, similar to how serif fonts use a two-story "g" which is hardly ever (if at all) seen in handwriting. When you're starting out, it's a good idea to find something that specifies using handwritten characters.

>A "Halloween" *kind of* outfit

I don't really see where you get the "kind of" there, because it seems to me like "kind of" would indicate a description of the word that comes next, not an explanation like the definition on goo.ne.jp says. I'm probably just thinking of it the wrong way though, like for example if I just interpret it exactly like you did that first example (A "Halloween" outfit; this "Japan" country) it makes sense to me, because then it seems like it is more of an explanation and not a description.

言い訳は地獄で聞く

How do you pronounce a vowel after ん, such as in

せんえん (千円)
ふんいき (雰囲気)
etc.?

Neither example seem too difficult to pronounce. Just listening for the stop on the ん and then keep pronouncing the rest of the word. It is kind of subtle. Just pay attention to how you differentiate between に and んい.

If you really struggle with 円, there's no shame in pronouncing it 'yen'.