The Coen Brothers Discussion

A friend and I were discussing the Coen Brothers after watching Hail Ceaser and we both shared the same feeling that their films are so inscrutable but you feel the Coen Brothers have complete control and not one scene feels unintended.


I feel is niche that despite everything crazy that happens in their films you feel there is some Greater meaning or message - think A Serious Man or True Grit, they are masters at creating this sense of a symbolism in their work but maintain a rightful ambiguity which I think keeps them unique; what does Sup Forums think?

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Dishonest kino

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The Informant is my favourite Coen Brothers flick.

Just watched Burn After Reading, what a dogshit movie.

True Grit was dogshit. All these goddamn remakes are that flick's fault.

I agree. They also have this pitch-perfect sense of comic timing in all their scenes, even in tense or serious moments, that always makes their films a pleasure to watch. I don't know if "comic timing" is the right way to describe it, but I think anyone who loves their films would understand what I mean. They can take very dry, heavy subject matter and make it feel light & entertaining without hitting a false note.

I also like how there's always a spiritual/supernatural layer to their work - a sense of "good and evil," and an environment where the character's most well-prepared plans can be derailed by random chance and acts of God.

I know Sup Forums can't possibly endorse an opinion shared by so many "normies," but they're the best American filmmakers of their generation by a WIDE margin.

Your taste is dogshit, tbqh. Their True Grit remake was better than the original, and Burn After Reading is hilarious

Their films are always tinged with the philosophy of absurdism, that humans are desperate to find meaning in their situations but are unable to do so either because of their incompetence or for lack of trying.

why did you think you could have a decent film discussion thread, OP? At Sup Forums, of all places, where people like this exist.

cuck

No hollywood sticks to franchises because movies don't make as much money as they used to so they need guaranteed returns. The world of Pre-Seq-Reb has been around a lot longer than 2010

>Their True Grit remake was better than the original

it was great, but nah, not that great

ive never seen the original true grit? is it funny?

Their True Grit remake is better than the original.
That's a fact. The old True Grit is just quite simply not as deft a film, does not pack near as much of a punch and leaves me largely uninvolved.

It's your average "pardon me, pilgrim!" John Wayne schlock.
This thread is the first time I've heard anyone say they thought it outmatched the Coen's treatment.
And I wholeheartedly disagree.

that's because you have no view of cinematic history

Have you actually seen the John Wayne version? It's not an untouchable classic, it's not even in the top 5 of John Wayne's best Westerns, there was plenty of room for improvement. The Coens did it better by far.

Is this the ultimate pleb-in-patrician's-clothing move? A knee-jerk insistence that a remake can never be better than the original?

>It's your average "pardon me, pilgrim!" John Wayne schlock.

no..it isn't at all

try watching the movie before you bitch about it

mattie from the original was a cute

I just watched pic related recently and really enjoyed it, I've been craving more prohi-crime drama ever since Boardwalk Empire got cancelled

my only complaint is they really overdo it in the scenes where the son/boxer dude are screaming

she played a cute boy convincingly

A serious man is probably my favorite comedy

Why are their movies so unbearably white?

Are the Coen brothers bona-fide?

Because they're white.

because they don't twist the narrative of their movies for 13% of the population that probably won't spend the money for admission to their movies anyways

if you don't like that answer.. vote democrat in 12 yrs.

Sounds like curture crash

Their films also feel intelligent, but not in any showy ostentatious way, I feel when watching their films the Coens are WAY smarter than I am but there is little pretentiousness, and they avoid overly abstract questions about meaning in their work. If anything they disavow this in Barton Fink which gives me a great respect and trust that they will continue to make great films.

Ethan > Joel > Sacha Baron > Etan

somewhat well disguised pretentious hackery with (manufactured) middle-high brow sensibilties

throw them on the same pile as the andersons and david russell

that being said, fargo and ncfom are legitimately great movies. lebowski would have been if it could get out of its own way, but since it cant it mostly just plays as insufferable

the rest of their oeuvre ranges from "bad" to "worse" and deep down i think you all know it

fuck them

If you want to be like Armond you have to write well.

discord.gg/CdTyVGK

I'm gonna need a quick rundown.

eh, you make some good points but calling most of their films "bad to worse" is just silly. man who wasn't there, ILD, a serious man, etc. are all great films.

How would you compare them to the other quintessential american modern director: Paul Thomas Anderson?

...

I get that feeling is because their movies typically involve a simple-minded protagonist trying to figure out all the crazy shit happening around him.

less consistently good, but their highs (NCFOM, fargo) are equally as good (boogie nights)

Man, it actually sounded like you were trying to make an argument there for a second but then you gave up.

When will they go trans?

They are virtually guaranteed to release a 3/5 star movie. I can't think of one of their films that was actually bad, (haven't seen a few)

I don't think their best (NCFOM) reaches even the heights of PTA's second best (TWBB)

They masters of their craft however

to be fair i forgot about barton fink; also a great movie, and inside llewyn davis is up there too.

sometimes its hard to believe the same filmmakers can do that and then also shit out intolerable cruelty, burn after reading and hail caesar

the problem isnt necessarily "quality"; they're more than competent.. its intent and purpose. a well executed but also dishonest masturbatory movie will never NOT be any of those things, and when those things keep showing up in someones work, it makes you begin to wonder and re-evaluate everything. the parts may make the whole, but that whole also informs its parts, obviously, as it all comes from the same source. its a two way street.

for another obvious example look at tarantino, and for a more horrific one just look at inarritu. the same holds true for everyone on some level or another, but it seems like coens fags never confront this issue and like to pretend it doesnt exist, yet almost every single one of their movies has "clever" wink wink psuedophilosophical undertones bleeding through.

at least someone like aronofsky wears his shit on his sleeve. i usually prefer subtlety but when its towards roughly the same ends with the same cadence basically every time it gets fucking old in a hurry, and the coens have been fucking boring for years. almost all of their movies feel like milquetoast versions of the absolute worst version of david fincher, even when they somehow work.

i honestly dont know how much of this is just taste and how much truth there really is to it, but its art so who knows.. i can only observe and tell you what i feel. and it clearly isnt exactly impressive.

have some (you)'s, sorry ive been drinking and distracted but you wanted a blog post so here it is.

sell me on the coens, please. part of me wants to like them.

tell me if this needs revision
kino: NCFOM, fargo
cinema: the man who wasn't there, inside llewyn davis, a serious man
film: miller's crossing
that's all i've seen so far. i can't imagine any of theirs being flicks, though.

Prefer the Coen's. Wasn't a fan of The Master.

TWBB is a masterpiece in it's own right and far better than anything the Coens have done, but the Coens are more consistent in their quality

But the Master is better than anything the coens have ever done.

The coens however have way more films, and their films are usually light hearted and funny. Often for a lot of people making the 1st viewing of a Coens film more enjoyable than the 1st viewing of PTA film.

Sam Raimi bows to the Coens

Like Raimi, they have this playful sensibility that comes from old slapstick/screwball comedies and wacky cartoons, which makes even their philosophical dramas or gritty stories immediately enjoyable and charming, but the thing with the Coens is that their obsession with classic Hollywood isn't just gratuitous and stylistic (like say QT), they see the classic genres (comedy, westerns, noir/gangster) as America's founding mythology. And by questioning the links between American psyche and history and the images and stories that defined they, they end up questioning human nature, all while creating completely new images. They have great eyes for cinema, but also heart and a lot of brain. You can tell they're erudite in many cultural fields but also don't take themselves seriously, knowing they could easily border on pretentiousness or elitism, but they always find tongue-in-cheek, emotionally-charming and visually-engaging ways of making their cinematic, meta-philosophical or sociocultural musings entertaining and accessible for the common man, on a very intuitive level. Also I don't think they're dishonest in the slightest, actually very surprisingly honest for Jewish filmmakers making moral tales about typically lower-class flyover goyim, they otherwise don't seem negatively Jewish in their worldviews and sense of morality, or even public personas. They weren't taken seriously and flew under the radar until Barton Fink, and never compromised themselves for the critics afterwards, never became narcissistic, if they wanna make a small non-prestige comedy they'll do it, etc.

I believe Frances McDormand was cute in Blood Simple.

The Master is one of the few 10/10 films of the past decade. You have terrible taste

What do you think is PTA's #1? I always considered TWBB to be his best

The Master felt like a mess, like there was supposed to be a story there but he couldn't determine where the beginning and end should be.

Yeah Coen's are typically more light-hearted, though it took me several viewings to enjoy Miller's Crossing.

watching hail Caesar now NCFOM is the only film by them that I've liked

The Master.

I literally sat their and watched it twice in a row.

Who the fuck doesn't like Fargo or O Brother Where Art Thou?


I can understand not like The Big Lebowski, or Inside Llewyn Davis but Fargo and O brother are undeniably entertaining

>also heart
If the Coens lack anything (except for Inside Llewyn Davis), it's heart. NCFOM is almost Kubrick-tier detached, their comedies are ruthless on their goofy ass characters, deservedly so I'll admit. Anyway "heart" is not something I'd use to describe their style.

That's not even a criticism senpai. There is a very clear story.

i didn't really like fargo it was meh at best and i must confess that i have yet to watch O Brother yet.

Agreed. However I think the detachment from the events of NCFOM is what makes it so good.

ILD is so overlooked for some reason

Its a light hearted adventure flick. If you can you should watch it with a friend.

everything I've read about it seems promising I'll probably watch it tomorrow after A Hard Days Night with my father.

Blood Simple is still so enjoyable. In the old broadcast world, it would be one of those movies that you would sit and watch every time it came on, except that they never played it.

>it's a comfy coen bros thread
This is what I like see

>the thing with the Coens is that their obsession with classic Hollywood isn't just gratuitous and stylistic (like say QT), they see the classic genres (comedy, westerns, noir/gangster) as America's founding mythology. And by questioning the links between American psyche and history and the images and stories that defined they, they end up questioning human nature, all while creating completely new images.

I feel this interview pays tribute to that

They're miles ahead of any of the directors you mentioned, they're at the highest level of living American filmmakers with Martin Scorsese and David Lynch.

They don't make jerk-off movies at all. They've made movies I don't like, but they're earnest failures. Even in comedies, their characters have real struggles with God, with their families, their place in society, the way they deal with temptation or danger or desperation, the way they make friends, lose friends, treat people, etc.

They do it all with humor and levity, and an affectionate approach to genre, setting, and production design. But it's never hollow, it rarely feels show-offy or "prestige picture"-ish. Because all their films are basically just a way for them to have real, thoughtful explorations of personal and universal issues. They always make an effort to make it entertaining, accessible, and appealing at a surface level, but there's real substance and depth in almost all their movies.

They've made 13 films in the range between "good" and "great." The only ones I didn't care for were The Man Who Wasn't There, Intolerable Cruelty, The Ladykillers, and Hail Caesar.

this is without a doubt the most faggy forced "my opinion is dogma" meme i've ever seen on Sup Forums literally anyone can say "this movie is dishonest and not genuine"

it doesn't mean anything you moron


another moron

the boxer dude makes it better imho

definitely a great movie, seen it at least 4 times

>manufactured
>sensibilities
>insufferable
>legitimately
>oeuvre

you may have what it takes to become a third rate critic my friend! in fact you already sound like one, great diction

hating on the coens is like hating on fun.

all these movies people describe as "fun" and then you watch a movie like Lebowski or O Brother and its more "fun" then those movies ever had hope for

>this is the kind of pleb trash you share the board with
Stick to GoT

>this opinion that I admit is a running joke isn't a legitimate opinion
You sure told him.

>no heart
>Raising Arizona
>Miller's Crossing
>The Hudsucker Proxy
>Fargo
>O Brother, where art thou?
>Hail Ceaser!

>No heart

cmon son

I see a lot of heart in characters like McDormand in Fargo or Tommy Lee Jones in NCFOM (similar characters btw), a lot of tenderness towards their characters in True Grit or Hudsucker Proxy, Gab Byrne in Miller's Crossing, etc. even if they're ruthless, there's always a somewhat stupid and naive but innocent at heart character, surrounding the absurdist chaos or moral decay at the center of each film.

I disagree slightly. At least in a serious man it feels like he is competent but he can't find any meaning because it is ultimately impossible.

Yep.

I sometimes wonder how much of The Evil Dead being the GOAT horror picture is Joel Coen as a lowly editing assistant picking up the ball and giving Sam the extra mile it needed.

>all their movies are shit except the ones that are very good

Raising Arizona is Cage's finest hour for this very reason. He shows flashes of it again in Wild At Heart, Face/Off and the Kiss Of Death remake but this is clearly him at his best.

You're weird for not liking The Man Who Wasn't There. It's my #5 Coen.

Evil Dead II was better though please don't swallow my soul satan

i didn't understand the point of hail caesar

who asked for this
how is it relevant

it just felt like the coen brothers wanted to make a movie about the picture business in the 60's or whichever decade it was set in and their films are profitable so it was easily bankrolled

i loved the big lebowski, i liked a serious man, fargo was good and i respected true grit (despite it being so fucking grim and boring) but films like burn after reading and hail caesar just feel disposable and pointless

and channing tatum really felt out of place

>70s tinted American Jewish new wave KINO vs class politick 80s horror film
sorry senpai can't vouch for you

>liking coen brothers makes you patrician

hahahahah fuck off retard

Maybe I should give that one another chance. I only saw it once and I honestly don't remember it that well

>Posts on Sup Forums while watching a movie
>Has shit taste

Why am I not surprised?

It seemed like a bunch of half-baked ideas about the glory days of Hollywood that the Coens wanted to put into a movie but I agree there really was no point to making it

I still don't know what I was supposed to take away from it. I felt like I learned no new or interesting information from the storyline

I think their heart gives that ruthlessness its impact though.

I've always found their reputation and gravitas to feel unearned. Their track record isn't exactly great, they just made a few great movies that have let them coast. If a fighter had their record no one would treat that fighter like one of the greats.

Filmmaking is different from a boxing record though. Show me a filmmaker who hasn't attached his name to some shit projects. Look at the absolute fucking garbage that Scorsese made in the 80s and 90s, Coppola hasn't made a competent movie in like 35 years, Fincher made fucking Benjamin Button, as long as you make like 5 or 6 great movies then you're a fantastic filmmaker.

>Barton Fink
>Miller's Crossing
>True Grit
>A Serious Man
>Inside Llewyn Davis
>O Brother Where Art Thou

these are not only great movies but honestly some of the finest I've ever seen in my life, I think it's hard to knock the Coen Brothers for the Ladykillers and Intolerable Cruelty personally

>Is this the ultimate pleb-in-patrician's-clothing move? A knee-jerk insistence that a remake can never be better than the original?

Yeah, pretty much

>Inside Llewyn Davis
>True Grit
>honestly some of the finest I've ever seen in my life
But you have shit taste.

If you're expecting some kind of resolution to a Coen Brothers movie, then you haven't been paying attention to their movies at all.

That being said, I just couldn't get into Hail Caesar.

>it just felt like the coen brothers wanted to make a movie about the picture business in the 60's or whichever decade it was set in
Even the decade is ethereal and inconsequential. The genres of films being made don't align with an actual era, so it's just nonsense. That movie fucking sucks.