How 2 become relevant classical composer in the 21st century??

how 2 become relevant classical composer in the 21st century??

Attached: i'm asian.jpg (884x750, 77K)

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=LXLl68Llf8E
youtube.com/watch?v=RSTJJKffsPI
youtube.com/watch?v=JTEFKFiXSx4
youtube.com/watch?v=ZvCI-gNK_y4
youtube.com/watch?v=cGufy1PAeTU
youtube.com/watch?v=Hstbdf-vOo4
youtube.com/watch?v=XSYVybCi0Mo
youtu.be/pq7-oVKpn6M?t=29s
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

compose good classical music

/thread

Create a symphony that ends in an orgy

make trap beats for a rapper utilizing all the tools the other producers believe do them no good

compose outside of the classical music market, eg, do music for videogames.

make a yt account and do orchestral/instrumental renditions/arrangements of meme songs like fucking all star or tunak tunak tun and popular songs with strong fanbases in general.

music nowadays is made for people with conditioned attention spans so incorporate techniques like catchy ostinato

Attached: violinman.jpg (1300x1030, 128K)

>/threading your own post
nu as fuck

is good
how would i arrange this

legit this though
break the mold by adding some edgy shock element

>classical

Become a minimalist.

1. fuse classical with popular music

youtube.com/watch?v=LXLl68Llf8E

youtube.com/watch?v=RSTJJKffsPI


2. do some real 2deep4u pomo shit

youtube.com/watch?v=JTEFKFiXSx4

3. compose the soundtrack to a movie, tv show, videogame

youtube.com/watch?v=ZvCI-gNK_y4

youtube.com/watch?v=cGufy1PAeTU

OP said "relevant" not "irrelevant".

That hasn't been relevant for 30 years

>compose the soundtrack to a movie, tv show, videogame
These don't make you a relevant composer, just a film/tv/game composer - which are generally looked down upon by real composers (lol having to serve someone else's artistic purpose).

The answer to OPs question is write good music. Good music is always relevant, and if its good enough, it becomes timeless.

steal everything from grimes and transduce it to classical format.

what is good music though

Be some underrepresented minority. Consider publicly identifying as gay or something.

music you consider good. If you think its good, odds are other people will too.

Grimes has nothing unique to steal tho

>This is what music needs to be reduced to
frigg off

>Telling new artists to NOT pursue avenues of musical expression they have available to them
Does just sending sheet to your city's symphony orchestra get you noticed?

>composer
I love moving dirt around. I even like saving up my coffee grinds and banana peels. It makes for good compost. I would tend to my garden.
>seed to plant
No one cares about home made produce anymore. All these plebs don't understand how much work it is to tend to a garden.

You'll likely have to look into choreography, if you really want any control over such a thing. Composing physical movement into score is really rather limited at the moment to timed percussive hits with text.

How is that in any way breaking the mold in a modern-classical setting?

>That hasn't been relevant for 30 years
It hasn't been new for 30 years, sure; but Reich, Glass, Adams, Riley, and Pärt still sell plenty of tickets. In fact, I went and saw 'Drumming' just the other week.

Eh... That may get you critical acclaim, but it likely won't get you widely played.

You'd have more luck having a harrowing story of survival - preferably the holocaust, though really, any repressive regime will do.

>Does just sending sheet to your city's symphony orchestra get you noticed?
OPs question was about relevance, not getting noticed. Any mope standing on the street playing accordion is getting noticed, but he almost certainly isn't relevant.

Getting a piece played by a local symphony orchestra certainly implies that you're relevant, but usually this takes more than just sending in a score, you need to know people, ideally composers who have already been played by that symphony orchestra and who can put in a good work for you.

Writing music that only you can write makes you relevant imo, but what is and isn't relevant is generally objective. What's relevant to one person may not be to another.

>Reich, Glass, Adams, Riley, and Pärt still sell plenty of tickets. In fact, I went and saw 'Drumming' just the other week.
Sure, they still sell tickets, but hardline minimalism isn't relevant in classical music these days (some more academic composers would say that it was never relevant...). Even post-minimalism like Adams is getting long in the tooth. Pärt is ok because he evolves and isn't a hardline minimalist, and has his own unique style.

Create something that will be stuffed into the "Peaceful piano" playlist on spotify like Max Richter or Nils Frahm

Honestly a way better idea than I would have come up with. This would probably actually work if you could get it done.

If you're going to make that argument, you'll have to define relevancy.

Has anyone taken the torch from Adams? He's the greatest IMO. Only current classical composer I care about.

Tonal minimalism was never "relevant" to the soulless, anti-musical 20th/21st century classical establishment, which is exactly why it was successful with audiences and worthwhile as music.

Well, nobody does Adams better than Adams, so really the only way we're gonna be able to answer that is if you can pick apart exactly what you like and don't like about his catalogue.

In this vein: put contact microphones on the genitals of two people having sex inside a black box placed in the center of the orchestra

I like the fact that it's tonal, I like the massive sense of space and distortion of sense of meter/time he creates with in his strictly minimalilst moments - using the orchestra/ensemble to play harmonies as stretched out scaffolding, folding around and throughout the entire the stereo field (or 3d space in the case of attending a live performance), I like that he breaks from his minimalism for sudden sections of more traditionally through-composed music, I like the beautiful, folkish sense of melody and harmony he displays in pieces like The Dharma at Big Sur. I don't like his operas.

>worthwhile as music
I would sarcastically clap to your post but someone could mistake it for a Reich performance.

Attached: boulez.jpg (660x622, 123K)

Good post

kek. Yeah a lot of it was bad and boring. But it was also the only area where anything good was happening, and the good stuff, e.g. Adams, is astonishing.

Any composer who looks down on soundtrack composers is himself not a real composer.

youtube.com/watch?v=Hstbdf-vOo4

On a related note, what is even the difference between making "classical music" today and making soundtrack music?

Learn to make masterpieces like this
youtube.com/watch?v=XSYVybCi0Mo

You can't and there's no such thing as a relevant anything from the 21st century and beyond. Even in the 20th century we had "legendary" bands and solo legends like Michael Jackson and Elvis. There are no more megastars.

>You'd have more luck having a harrowing story of survival - preferably the holocaust, though really, any repressive regime will do.
Oh, here we go. Forget talent, imagination or innovation - 6 gorillion. This is what happens when 12 year old Christian boys from Sup Forums, whoops Sup Forums, attempt to discuss any topic seriously.

Don't know but I imagine a bonafide classical composer would say the difference is intent. A soundtrack composer seeks to make something that suits the visual material, and maybe elevates it or colors it emotionally in a different way. A classical composer seeks something else, different things for each composer surely, but something that is entirely contained within the music itself and the composer's own vision, not beholden to another piece of art, as the work of the soundtrack composer is beholden to the film he's composing for. In general, I'd guess the contemporary classical composer is probably more concerned with conceptual and technical ideas than the soundtrack composer.

Start by throwing out the word "classical" and getting up to date on the state of the modern composer's art, then develop your craft and do your best to push the state of your art a little farther out than it currently is.

Or if by "relevant" you mean "profitable," develop an ear for melody, go write entry-level "theme" music designed for scoring mass media entertainment, and hope you get lucky.

Soundtrack composition is not necessarily very or at all subservient to the work and could be compared to composing based on inspiration.

Of course it's subservient to the visual work. The music cue is 2:38. Your piece must fit within 2:38 or else be cut and edited. Key events happen at 1:22 and 1:56. You will compose around those events. Etc.

ur a good

>Key events happen at 1:22 and 1:56. You will compose around those events. Etc.
That's how classic movie composing works, but game music is typically not done like that. Music for anime shows are also typically not done like that. Length limitations exist but that's not exactly bounding you to the visual work.

Good point. I wasn't thinking about anime or game scoring.

Slightly odd suggestion, but have you looked into modern Post-bop at all? Especially the whole Scandewegian small-ensemble thing that's been going on recently?

It was a joke. You know... In response to the equally jokey edgelord comment it was a reply of.

What do you make of text-setting poetry then?
Or opera for that matter? Do you consider Wagner and Schubert less serious composers than Couperin because their works were not all exclusively musical, and sometimes included collaboration with poets, choreographers, etc?

Which operas have you seen? His first two are pretty monotonous but The death of klinghoffer is pretty varied.

im asian

>He's the greatest IMO
not hard to be the greatest post-minimalist when he's pretty much the only one doing it.

yeah I did - relevance is objective and not usually able to be seen objectively without hindsight.

>what is even the difference between making "classical music" today and making soundtrack music?
One is complete freedom for the composer - he can do whatever he wants, the other is being a servant to the director and the story.

Being a soundtrack composer is still a "real" composer, but its a different type where you just do what the director wants you to do and work your ass off all day every day for someone else's project.

I didn't say anything about how "serious" either pursuit was. Just what I think is a pretty fair assessment of the concerns of a composer in either situation.

>have you looked into modern Post-bop at all
No. Do you have any recs? Thanks.

I haven't seen any of them. Just heard recordings. I can only speak to how much I enjoyed, or didn't enjoy, the music alone.

>not hard to be the greatest post-minimalist when he's pretty much the only one doing it.
I meant that I think he's the greatest living composer in the tradition. He's the greatest I'm aware of.

ohok - they're some on rutracker if you get curious

>I think he's the greatest living composer in the tradition
he aint. Penderecki is still alive. Lera Auerbach, John Psathas, Brian Ferneyhough, Tristan Murail, Aho, Haas, Finnissy, all much better than Adams imo

Soundtrack composers can at worst be so restricted that the director tells them to copy the temp track, but they can also be given only vague direction on what to do. Maybe no direction at all. And it's not just someone else's project, it's also the composer's project.

>it's also the composer's project.
partially, but its always subservient to the story and the director and sometimes even the producers have last say.

Guys like Zimmer and Hisaishi don't have to compose for anyone, let alone repeatedly the same director. They clearly like doing it. As do many other, less notable composers.

I don't like Penderecki or Ferneyhough. I'll listen to the rest though, thanks.

>relevance is objective and not usually able to be seen objectively without hindsight.

That's not really providing a useful metric, though, is it?

Oh, okay; using terms like 'bonafide' and 'real' as distinguishers may have been giving a mixed message there then.

But yeah, that still leaves the question of why it is generally considered for Opera and text-settings of poems/hymns to fall into one category while film music falls into the other.

As for the post-bop recs which conjure up some of the same rhythmic and metric ideas (and perhaps some of the whimsy) of Adams, I'd probably suggest the Avishai Cohen Trio's album 'Gently Disturbed' (particularly tracks 2, 4, and 8). Here's a sample:

youtu.be/pq7-oVKpn6M?t=29s

If you enjoyed that, I can recommend plenty more, but I won't clog up the thread with heaps if I'm missing the mark; there's a lot in Adams' sound that they don't do, after all.

Look, I write New Complexity music, even make a little money out of it, and I love Ferneyhough dearly; but even I can admit that he's not anywhere near Adams' level.

Pendereck and Finnissy are overrated hacks; Auerbach's good, but not that good; I don't know Murail or aho; Haas and Psathas are both fantastic, and Adams' best competition, but I still lean his way.

>Pendereck and Finnissy are overrated hacks
Opinion discarded

I used "bonafide" to differentiate from me, who is not a classical composer.

> that still leaves the question of why it is generally considered for Opera and text-settings of poems/hymns to fall into one category while film music falls into the other

Maybe because, for opera, in some cases at least, the composer has much more input into the work than a film scorer typically has on a film. Also, opera was conceived as, and is seen as a medium in which music is central, on par with the drama, where as in film it's probably seen by most people (typical audience members, not directors, maybe directors as well, I don't know) as a sort of secondary aspect of the work.

>Guys like Zimmer and Hisaishi don't have to compose for anyone, let alone repeatedly the same director
Film composers are always composing for the director and for the story. believe me, I've done a lot of film composing.

Hans Zimmer said himself said the most important thing you need to know about scoring a film is: "Story". Everything else in the film is serving the story, the music included. Film composers do not have complete freedom, they are always trying to think "how best can I serve this story" and work from there. Doesn't matter which director you work for, his or her word is law and if they don't like what you're doing with the score they will fire you and get someone they do like (as happened on lord of the rings and the latest blade runner film)

Of course they are composing for the director and the story, but they are not some kind of downtrodden slaves forced to compromise the sanctity of their art for someone else's vision.

Ok, but that's still a limitation that doesn't exist for a classical composer.

As I said before, they are not necessarily working under any strict parameters.

>they are not some kind of downtrodden slaves forced to compromise the sanctity of their art for someone else's vision.
They really are user. Many film composers labor away on sections only to have the music left on the cutting room floor. Film composers know there are there to serve the film, they have freedom, but only within what the director wants. Film composers generally accept they are servants to the film and are almost always humble and very careful and diplomatic towards directors with regards to giving them what they want. The film composers with big attitudes and their own ideas don't tend to get work, Hermann being probably the only exception.

All I said is that being tied to storytelling is a limitation that is not there for a classical composer. That's true and what you just said did not address that point.

>they are not necessarily working under any strict parameters.
Except they completely are. Its probably not best to chime in on a subject unless you actually know what you're talking about. I've scored many films for local film companies, have studied film scoring at university, and the needs of the film always comes before the needs of the composer. The composer serves the story, he serves the characters - expressing what they are feeling at any given time if necessary, and he serves the director. If the director doesn't get the score he wants, you get fired, or you never work with him again and begin to get a bad reputation.

The limitations on film composers are very very large - everything from limitations on how much time you get to work on the piece, to limitations on style (this film is set in the renaissance so only modes and mostly choral music please), orchestration (can't afford a large orchestra, only a string quartet for this film), limitations on how long your cues will be (2 seconds to make the audience feel release, then 12.8 seconds of action music, then 4 seconds of horror, etc.).

Meanwhile classical composers get to do whatever the fuck they want. They get a commission, they write whatever they want. If they get a commission from a specific group, they will usually write for that group (although they can add new instruments in if they wish), otherwise pretty much everything is left up to them.

Zimmer can fuck off any time to make whatever music he wants to, or pick and choose what directors he works with. Hisaishi can do the same, and in fact stopped working with Takeshi Kitano (one of Japan's most famous directors, if you don't know the name) and has published many of his own albums. Composers are integral to a work, and a lot of people go out of their way to compose soundtrack music.

People who compose only for themselves don't magically shit out masterpieces left and right just because they have absolute freedom.

They aren't necessarily tied to storytelling.

>Except they completely are.
No. As I said, composers working on games and TV anime generally don't work the same way movie composers tend to. They don't compose for the screen, they're given some general direction on what kind of music to make, or there is no direction at all. Or they are hired because of their sound and that sound is what the director wants, rather than the director telling them exactly what to make. Many directors and composers also have a very close relationship and it's not just the director dictating things and the composer following orders.

>I've scored many films for local film companies, have studied film scoring at university
Which doesn't make you an expert on how all soundtrack composition everywhere works.

You just keep moving the goalposts. Several anons explain why you're wrong and then you say "well not in this other case". It's useless. Believe what you want. You aren't interested in new information, even from people who clearly have more experience than you do.

I haven't moved any goalposts.

>Several anons explain why you're wrong
I'm not.

>You aren't interested in new information, even from people who clearly have more experience than you do.
Tell me more about how your experience scoring for local film companies makes you an expert on game and anime composition.

I'm talking about film scoring :^)
Now I'm talking about anime and games because what I said was untrue for film composing :^)

retard.

We weren't talking about just film scoring, and even then what you are saying is not universally true.

>you
You don't know if I'm any of the previous posters. But several times anons pointed out why what you said was wrong in given cases. You can say "well it's possible that there are times when that wouldn't be true even though I won't give any examples", but why are you having this conversation then? People with more experience and knowledge than you are giving you relevant answers to your questions and you are just finding ways of rejecting them. You can do that if you want, but it's immature and will only hurt you. Good luck user.

>But several times anons pointed out why what you said was wrong in given cases.
Where?

>You can say "well it's possible that there are times when that wouldn't be true even though I won't give any examples"
Examples of what?

>People with more experience and knowledge than you are giving you relevant answers to your questions and you are just finding ways of rejecting them.
How does composing for local film companies make someone an expert on not just all film composition but also game and anime composition?