Are you for handing in the Article 50 notice immediately

or should Britain wait with negotiations until October or even next year?

Could negotiations actually take less than 2 years? When will Britain be truly free?

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activate operation sea lion

there is still time to stop them

only germany can forge europe into a united and unstoppable world power

I think you guys should just cut them loose as fast as possible

Britain should be kicked out by force as soon as possible and this opportunity should be seized to make it possible for Frankfurt to steal London's role as Europe's financial hub, by denying the Brits any trade treaties with the European Union for a few years.

This is a golden opportunity to crush the eternal anglo. Also encourage the Scots to leave and give them immediate EU membership on independence.

But I'm afraid mutti merkel is quite literally too much of a pussy for this sort of international politics.

To prevent Scotland going and Labour winning, we need to get the fuck on with it.

We need to weather the storm and move forward. He who dares and all.

It should be done the moment we know the next PM, it should have been done by Cameron after he had got a diplomatic team together to begin negotiations but he ragequit instead.

>It should be done the moment we know the next PM

Why shouldn't it be done earlier? Is it uncertain whether the UK will leave before Boris Johnson starts to work in Downing Street?

Because there needs to be someone who actually gathers together all the ambassadors and diplomats and say "this is the plan, here's who will handle negotiations with which country on which issue, here's what we want from X Y and Z, here's what we're willing to give up, here's what we're not" before we start talking in earnest, and since Cameron quit he can't do it.

Sorry, hate to be a narcissist but the reason things are being put off is so your brexit has a more powerful impact on our election.

>Cameron resigning in october
>EUshillary v. nationalist trump in november

I want to go full steam ahead personally but I am not in government and apparently Cameron thought he had a win in the bag so his team does not actually know what to do.

>Also encourage the Scots to leave and give them immediate EU membership on independence.
Dumb Croat. Belgium, Italy and Spain have to say no to this because of their own separatists.

We need to do it NOW to stop vipers like Hannan from having a deal 'like Norway'. Get out ASAP. Get it going right now.

But the Article 50 notice could still be handed in, even if Johnson hasn't told people "this is the plan".

Nothing much would happen over the summer anyway in terms of negotiation and I highly doubt that the UK and EU aren't internally preparing strategies and talking about how to set a framework for negotations.

The only thing the delay does is shift the end date for the Brexit from June 2018 to October 2018.

...

it also gives the chance for another general election override this decision.

>Dumb Croat. Belgium, Italy and Spain have to say no to this because of their own separatists.

This is true.

And even more so, I heard the EU doesn't even want to deal with the Scottish issue. Scotland is a nuclear option for negotiations, not a base case joinder country from the outset.

Immediately

the longer they wait for the more time for anti-democracy MPs to cancel the departure.

>it also gives the chance for another general election override this decision.

You seriously believe the decision could be overturned? Come on, I just do not believe that.

There is not going to be a general election. We have fixed term parliaments now. They can't just call one.

kek

It's funny that you're the one laughing too. Swiss just prosper out of the way, based

Fuck

Yes they can.

">a motion of no confidence is passed in Her Majesty's Government by a simple majority and 14 days elapses without the House passing a confidence motion in any new Government formed

>a motion for a general election is agreed by two thirds of the total number of seats in the Commons including vacant seats (currently 434 out of 650)"

From
>parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/general/

There is a constitutional basis for the general election being more sound than a plebiscite

>American has to point out that something's funny instead of making a clever remark.

You're American, also, do we have to always be sarcastic little faggots? Why don't you try talking like an adult to people?

There are the kind of people who like Milo, and the people who like political discussion.

>Being this offended over literally nothing.
Thanks for being a disgrace as always m8.

This is getting posted on facebook atm, it's from a Guardian comment... thoughts?

I'm not the one using strong words like disgrace, I think your offended, and maybe a bit stupid...mate.

>nice dubs tho

Accurate.

The answer is time. I would never hand in the Article 50 notice until you sit on a table with everyone with a signature ready trade and exit agreement. Then you simultaneously sign the Article 50 notice AND the agreement on trade and exit. That way the EU states can never pressure the UK on time.

Use article 50 immediately, use it before the lefties screw up britains chance to escape.

Clearly you underestimate our politicians. No. They need to be forced now, or it will not happen. The 'leavers' do not intend to go through with it, and this is from someone who was very pro Leave.

Even in my underestimation did I not foresee the lows that they would stoop to. If it is not triggered before Cameron stepped down, then it will not be done at all, I do not think.

Whoever was second in command should hand in article 50

Rubbish. Cameron is certainly being slimy by not doing it right away.

But apart from delaying things and perhaps trying dirty tactics, it doesn't make a difference. This will take time to happen. Doesn't matter who is the figurehead when the break starts.

Art of the deal says you should always negotiate from a position of strength.

Holding Article 50 over the heads of the EU like the sword of Damocles is a very good position to negotiate from.

The faster we hand out article 50, the sooner the Scots and other interested parties will do the right thing to save themselves.

Drawing it out only weakens Europe further and encourages more countries to try to split and bargain for their advantage - like Britain is trying to do. Acting now might even prompt a second referendum to reverse Brexit, since many Brits now claim they had no idea what they were voting for until the pound sterling took a nosedive.

Again, I do not think this is wise.

Think about it how it works in an M&A deal. The seller loves to have a hard deadline so he can pressure buyers to commit by that deadline. The buyers, on the other hand, typically want flexibility so that they have the upper hand and the seller cannot bluff itself to a better deal with a deadline.

Similarly with Brexit. If Article 50 was handed in now, and then there are negotiations and we end up being at May 2018 and in June 2018 Brexit looms, the UK would be pushed against the wall to compromise on a shitload of issues.

However, if no Article 50 is given, then the EU is pushed against the wall, because it doesn't want limbo forever, so it would be the EU to try to speed up the process.

This is why idiots like Schulz and Juncker are "outraged" that the Article 50 notice is not handed in immediately.

Lastly, there are EU elections in June 2019. Juncker and Schulz hate to have Brexit still ongoing or get close to the June 2019 vote.

>Holding Article 50 over the heads of the EU like the sword of Damocles is a very good position to negotiate from.

Exactly, you never actually hand in the Article 50 notice, you always just say "we may hand it in".

Why would the EU have any incentive to negotiate then? They can just drag it out while treating the UK even worse.

Oh Mutti

Looking at this map it really is amazing that the RAF was able to hold off the Krauts for so long.

Didn't your pm, or something, call for a time limit for the Brits to hand in article 50?

Yeah, Osbone... Righttt...

There is no real 'second in command' in UK politics. Technically the PM should be in regards to the Queen. But we all know that isn't the case.

Mutti is in favor of giving the Anglos everything they want. She hates Germany and wants to see it destroyed. I have no idea why so many of you hate Mutti, she has been your biggest boon throughout all of this.

>Scotland will break away
EU don't want Scotland, and IF, IF they did the Scots will have to agree to ALL terms and that includes the Euro AND Schengen, something for the Scots to mull over, not to mention the resulting Border between them and England, because there will be one.

Scotland may get a referendum but again, they'll be on their own, with a brand new currency which will need a long time for anybody to gain faith to invest in, if at all.

>Ireland
Ireland nothing will change, no Republic/NI border business as usual, Republic isn't a member of Schengen so little need for one, Scotland will be though IF and it's a big IF, EU did accept them.

If they don't plan on actually leaving, sure. They can negotiate a better "in" deal. But that'll only apply if they don't end up leaving. And if they don't, then those politicians are dead. Plus all other sorts of havoc as people realise their votes literally don't count. Hopefully Scotland will get independence like they should, leaving a more pro-leave country.

Krauts lacked a strong navy, and didn't invest in RADAR, the RAF was also being supplemented by a lot of international help, Czech Polish, American, and colonial pilots, forign aid a large portion American, but others helped too, and a host of other things.
But really Investment into RADAR and all the international aid are what made the Brits able to stand up so well. Well that and the Royal Navy.

>However, if no Article 50 is given, then the EU is pushed against the wall, because it doesn't want limbo forever, so it would be the EU to try to speed up the process.

This hurts Germany. Why would any German want this?

>Didn't your pm, or something, call for a time limit for the Brits to hand in article 50?

No, Merkel said it shouldn't take forever to hand in the notice, but she also said it is up to Brits when to do it and that she doesn't really mind what the actual timeframe is.

She also said yesterday that it is the UK which is in the driver's seat, that Britain needs to come up with an agenda and drafts of the agreements to be entered into and then the negotiations could start.

The two year thing is just a suggestion. It has no real force. The EU needs a deal as much as the UK. So the two year thing is a red herring.. The EU can't let the UK leave wth no deal. So they'll extend the date as needed or both come to a conclusion. It's so silly to pretend international rules matter at this level.

The only tactic might be too not actually leave, but demand really good terms in exchange for staying. But that'll probably cause riots as people realise what a sham democracy is.

>Why would the EU have any incentive to negotiate then? They can just drag it out while treating the UK even worse.

The EU has an incentive to not let other countries secede. As such, the more the EU is seen as a bully and asstards and the more the UK is seen as the good guys, the more likely it is that right wing anti-EU forces in EU states will rise.

That is why Merkel is very, VERY cautious right now and has handed strict guidelines to the German state media to make it appear that Brits actually all regret the decision and Germany is the good guy in all of this, while Britain is in chaos.

For instance, that the DAX dropped by 8% is never mentioned on German state TV, only that the pound dropped is mentioned.

There are elections in Germany next year, which are crucial for Germany. The current coaltion only polls at 50% right now and it is entirely possible that they will not have a majority next year... making Germany virtually ungovernable.

We'll wait as long as we like before triggering Article 50. Probably a year or two. It would not be in our interest to rush it.

What are you going to do, Eurocrats? Just cut us loose?

It's all slightly academic, anyway. The EU will be completely falling apart in 2 years time. Whether or not we have triggered Article 50 yet won't really matter.

They didn't invest in those things because Hitler never planned to invade the backstabbing scum that is the eternal Anglo. He wanted peace, but the imperialistic warmongerers wouldn't listen.

>muh poland
>we wuz defending poland and shiet

Really? You filthy lying cunts, then why didn't you attack the Soviet union too, don't you remember that the Soviets split Poland in two together with the Germans? Oh yes, but the real goal was to destroy the rising superpower that was nazi Germany, to further their filthy Anglo shit plans.

Anglos are the cancer that has been killing Europe for centuries.

Britain needs to have a pro-Brexit government firmly in place before they press the "Article 50" button.

Fuck Germany and the EU for wanting to start the process now, before the UK has the leadership in place to negotiate in good faith.

Boris needs to be the PM, and Nigel Farage and/or UKIP needs to have some kind of role formulating immigration policy.

>This hurts Germany. Why would any German want this?
German cons and social dems want a speedy withdrawal of the UK and to win the German elections next year.

The worst that can happen for the German elites is limbo, with Britain actually doing very well economically and German falling into a recession, the migrant crisis back in the news and AfD rising to 20%+ nationwide.

Why would the EU be bullying? If UK doesn't article 50, them the EU has no reason to negotiate. If anything it'll show other countries that the uk changed their minds or is having second thoughts.

>It's all slightly academic, anyway. The EU will be completely falling apart in 2 years time. Whether or not we have triggered Article 50 yet won't really matter.

Good things come to those who wait.

If it's not already gone in two years time, the EU should be in its final death throws.

>It would not be in our interest to rush it.

Pretty much, it'd be insane to trigger 50 now, when we can buy extra time to let the past few days settle down and start to plan properly before triggering it

>Ireland nothing will change, no Republic/NI border business as usual, Republic isn't a member of Schengen so little need for one

are you suggesting brit customs and immigration control have a section at Irelands entry points? or that Ireland negotiate juxtaposed immigration AND custom controls with EU member states on britains behalf?

>The two year thing is just a suggestion. It has no real force. The EU needs a deal as much as the UK. So the two year thing is a red herring..

Sorry, but this is completely wrong. The two year period after the Article 50 notice is a hard deadline. It can only be extended if all EU states agree. Every single one. Guess when EU states agreed on anything important without dissent the last time?

If Cyprus doesn't want to extend or Hungary or Austria or Poland etc., then the UK is out without an agreement. And if I were the UK, I would not risk this situation.

Not quite; trade agreements are already underway, most of them will probably be pre-established long before the UK pulls out of the EU, because constancy is such a good bargaining chip for both sides, it's in their interests to try and maintain any current economic relationships in as close to their current form as possible. As we've seen germany is already negotiating with the UK as is malaysia and australia, the markets have recovered to last tuesday (partially because of the injection given to them) but more importantly, the EU is doing worse financially than the UK.

As it turns out, it appears that the "looking crash to kill us all" has been more smoke and mirrors than a repeat of 2008. That said, it is certainly more credible than "brexit will cause the end of western civilization"

As for the referendum result not being binding; yes in theory it isn't, in practice there would be blood in the streets if the government ignored it. The tories and labour heads teamed up on this one and now they've both fucked it. The next move is obvious; Cameron is a capitalist cock-sucker and is hanging around to start the trade deals, once he bails it would be political suicide for his replacement to not trigger article 50, we then have up to two years while the UK negotiates away.

As it wasnt part of schengen then the only question about boarder controls is northern ireland, which can easily be handled by a treaty. The EU will likely piss on this attempt, but they fucked ireland over with the "chasing the celtic tiger" meme and have left them to rot ever since, so it probably wont go well.

The devolution of scotland (as much as I want it to occur) will not happen; the oil crash has left scotland with no exports unlike their position at the last referendum, the SNP has fucked everything up and has lost support, which in turn has cut the support for a leave vote, and even if they did leave, they would be blocked from entering the EU by spain.

>a pro-Brexit government

no such thing exists, even in the leave camp
they are all vipers
give them no choice

The longer you draw it out, the more of Germany's rapefugees the UK will get as they procure residence permits and migrate en masse across the Chunnel before the deadline.

>are you suggesting brit customs and immigration control have a section at Irelands entry points?

No I said nothing of the kind, like I said "nothing will change, no Republic/NI border business as usual"

>What are you going to do, Eurocrats? Just cut us loose?

I think the only thing the EU could do is just refuse to negotiate until the Article 50 notice has been handed in. The British public would then put pressure on the Westminster politicians to "get on with it".

Or in other words, it is not as easy as you make it sound. However, there are other dynamics as well, so let's see.

>and Nigel Farage and/or UKIP needs to have some kind of role

to be honest, this will never happen. Farage will not be allowed to take part in the exit negotiations. He won't have any role in it, whatsoever.

>and AfD rising to 20%+ nationwide.

Only 20%? I think the AfD can go MUCH, MUCH higher than that.

They had 24% in Saxony-Anhalt in March. Now add in another 2 million culture enrichers and then top things off with the Brexit vote (brought to you in part by Merkel herself), and I'll bet that 25% support for AfD is now the new normal.

By the end of the summer, I expect support for AfD to be above 30% and possibly surging.

>AfD rising to 20%+ nationwide

This would have happened with or without Brexit. But I agree, Brexit now securely sees the AfD taking over the SPD's position as 2nd biggest party in Germany. The worse it gets for Germany, the better it gets for the AfD.

If it gets really ugly and the AfD leadership are atypically smart, it might even make them a new permanent Volkspartei.

uk that isn't in the eu is better for the eu and the world

>If UK doesn't article 50, them the EU has no reason to negotiate.

It has. Let's say the UK comes up with a draft of their exit agreement and trade agreements and publishs them and asks to sit down with the EU states. And the EU says "njet, you have not handed in ARticle 50, comrades"... how will the EU be viewed in Europe?

>they would be blocked from entering the EU by spain.
I've heard this before but am unaware why spain objects to scotland so much?

>If it's not already gone in two years time, the EU should be in its final death throws.
You are all thinking too fast. The disintegration of the EU is contingent on the next national elections in many countries, on the economic situation in the next years, on referendas in several EU states, on the migrant crisis etc.

It takes a long time for an organisation like the EU to completely collapse. Think about Rome, it took decades for it to collapse even after its power had been pretty much completely eroded after waves of migrant crisis and decadence and corruption.

Apparently as soon as we invoke article 50, we have to leave the room and can have no part in the negotiations. So I hope whoever replaces Cameron is smart enough to negotiate the settlement before invoking article 50

Check'd and Kek'd

Praise KEK.

Woah easy with that edge, almost cut myself.

What we brits should do is nuke Brussels and rebuild the British empire.
We won't stop untill the union jack is the flag of germany , France and the rest of the continent. .....

eu isn't going to disintegrate, maybe sweden leaves but that's it

The pro EU states are the ones that pay nothing into the system

>Farage will not be allowed to take part in the exit negotiations. He won't have any role in it, whatsoever.

Farage and UKIP both deserve to play some kind of role in the official Brexit negotiations. Do you honestly think that the surging support for UKIP will now suddenly dry up simply because Brexit prevailed?

Ignoring UKIP and Farage is the same insane policy that the ruling coalitions are following in France and Germany against the National Front and the AfD, respectively. The cordon sanitaire will inevitably blow up in their face as right-wing, populist groups are marginalized even as their numbers surge in the polls.

You might be right, but it would be better not to alarm people.

Catalonia wishes to separate from the rest of Spain

Probably because after 300 years they are still salty about Gibraltar.

>Only 20%? I think the AfD can go MUCH, MUCH higher than that.

No, it cannot. You don't know how the propaganda in state media and in the public works here. This is literally 1984 around here. News is distorted, views are misrepresented, the AfD is depicted like the worst gay Nazis since Röhm and the German government is literally doing everything to hide the ongoing migrant crisis.

20% is enough to make a change. Right now they are at 15%. It is an uphill battle and the AfD hasn't got very good leaders, to be honest. Nobody charismatic like Le Pen or Trump or Boris Johnson.

they should

I think it's fine desu.

We have a potential Scottish referendum, a leadership contest and the collapse of the Labour party to deal with before we should start even planning to negotiate.

>Nobody charismatic like Le Pen or Trump or Boris Johnson.
What's wrong with Frauke? She seems pretty good to me as an outsider.

i still think sweden will reach a tipping point, brexit was about immigration, sweden has the same issue. swexit will happen i think

Motion by whom? The Labour party is tearing itself apart. The Tories are about to exchange Cameron with a leader who actually backed the apparent will of the people. Comrade Corbyn himself will probably back the Tories on bringing us out, judging by his actions so far.

>You might be right, but it would be better not to alarm people.

You might be right. I'll go back to calling the AfD a marginal party whose support will have dried up by next week.

Thanks for the reminder not to upset ordinary German voters with facts.

The EU is too useful to the USA under Obama and Clinton.

Okay if Trump wins and he secretly backs the AfD to take over the government, the EU will disintegrate.

this also hopefully makes the eu reconsider the amount of refugees or immigration they intake

>Are you for handing in the Article 50 notice immediately
they will wait the fuck out of it.

>Could negotiations actually take less than 2 years?
No, negotiations with Greenland took 4 years, fucking Greenland.

>When will Britain be truly free?
what do you mean by free? If they want acces to the single market (which they do)they have to stick to all the rules they've stuck to till now. (look at Switzerland and Norway) but from then on without any say.

It wasn't a prediction, it was a fact check in this case.

But it is possible to revoke Brexit by staving off the invoking of Article 50 until it is possible to call a General.

i find it hard to believe that trump wasn't put into the race by the democrats

Why is a nuclear armed state letting non-armed states threaten or bully them?

I'm beginning to believe that Sup Forums fucked up Britain with constant shilling to leave. This might be soon revealed.

Fuck you retards.

>Apparently as soon as we invoke article 50, we have to leave the room and can have no part in the negotiations.

This is a bit of a myth. The UK only has to leave the room in relation to the discussion of the other 27 members about the exit and trade agreement which is negotiated with the UK.

However, on a practical level, the UK will for instance not take over the rotating EU presidency in the second half of 2017, considering it would not be in anyone's interest to do so. etc.

what i meant is, spain would likely block scotland from entering the EU, because they don’t want any problems back at home.

Accepting scotland while blocking catalonia would bring protests to the streets.