Write your thoughts on the last jazz album you listened to!
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Alexander Hughes
Brandon Cox
>Write your thoughts on the last jazz album you listened to!
Yeah I'm pretty sure that nobody on this board is even capable of giving any thoughts on jazz beyond "i like it" or "i don't like it" or some variation of those.
Carter Cruz
>Waltz For Debby
pure beauty. Bill Evans was legitimately the GOAT
Samuel Allen
good job proving me right
Dylan Jenkins
pic related
heard his columbia and riverside recordings (which I like) but never got into his chromatic bebop stuff of the 40s. easily the most accessible of his works, don't know if they're the definitive versions however
Nathan Reed
i could go more in depth but i feel like it wasnt necessary.
Justin Gomez
Scenery by Ryu Fukui
its an amazing piano jazz album by Fukui, who took up piano only six years before the release. He's song Early Summer grabs your attention throughly. Half way through he his flying across the keys w 16th note triplets dipping in and out of different modes to constantly switch the flavor to the lines hes playing. Three quaters of the way through the song simmers leading to a god level drum solo, which builds the tension leading to an epic climax as Fukui dives back in with the fast tempoed lines. Truely a phenomenal piece. Other noteable tracks: his take on Autumn Leaves, he adds alot of flavor and his own spin on it which he developed and gave credibility to the whole album.
Dominic Brooks
its free jazz mixed with grindcore and yamantaka eye is on vocals what else do you need
Tyler Long
>dipping in and out of different modes
which modes is he dipping in and out of?
>his take on Autumn Leaves, he adds alot of flavor and his own spin on it
What do you think he does that is unique enough to call this "putting his own spin on it"?
Jayden Baker
Oh now this sounds just awful
Jacob Williams
Boris Kozlov, Conversations at the Well. It is ultimately a very barebones album of guitar, bass and drums when it comes to instrumentation, it's one that I feel is really carried by the way it handles rhythm - it's one cohesive rhythm section playing in very interwoven fashion, and if there's anyone that should be highlighted, it's Rudy Royston, who's doing an absolutely fantastic job as a drummer. That said, Kozlov himself does a fantastic job of determining the pace of a piece, being able to quickly give it a completely new feeling. He also really, really likes to use a bow for his double bass, which creates a really unique texture in the grand scheme of things.
Tyler Jenkins
you cant rec me a jazz record that is even remotely as fun as torture garden
Andrew Myers
where are there any 16th note triplets in early summer?
Gabriel Davis
>grindcore
>fun
Jose Cruz
just listen to it and youll see
John Hall
Im new to jazz and am excited to delve deeper
pic related was neato
Nathaniel Price
The first five minutes of it were pretty bad. I did laugh I guess but not in a "fun" way. More of like a "holy shit some people actually like this" kind of way.
Bentley Hall
i felt the same way years ago, one day youll like it im telling you
Grayson Ward
I think it's probably the opposite. I think I would have liked it when I was 15.
Cameron Perez
do these guys make their record covers bad on purpose or what
Austin Wright
sure, rec me something mature then
Charles Hernandez
Dogon AD by Julius Hemphill
Adam Moore
im snorting stimulants, rec me some jazz or fusion for this. already heard most miles davis and coltrane
James Taylor
I know I can't, not even with non jazz albums. Wish I could
Eli Barnes
I'm tempted to say it's to cut costs.
Bentley Scott
do you think it's true that this kind of music is mostly appreciated only by jazz musicians? if so what do you think that says about the music itself?
Xavier Lewis
This was cool last time. How do you rank Wayne Shorter's Blue Note albums?
Dominic Rogers
I'm not the person you're asking but I'll give my take. I don't think the criss cross albums can only be appreciated by jazz musicians but I think jazz musicians appreciate them the most when they first listen to them. I've only heard about 10 criss cross albums but every time I hear one I feel like I need to listen to it at least 4 or 5 times to even start to understand what's going on in the music. But I think people who have already listened to a lot of jazz (so mostly jazz musicians) can pick up on those things more after hearing it only once. It also explains why criss cross isn't very popular on Sup Forums.
Leo Moore
litterally so many instances. one example: 4:20- 4:40
Thomas Morris
retard
Charles Collins
sometimes people don't want to write an analytical essay about why they enjoy a particular track
Ian White
well, he stays in playing major arrpegios and the major scale, and then during long running lines he oftern"dips" into dorian and locrian, an example is at 4:00 into the song.
litterally anytime a new artist plays a song they put their own spin on it, thats thw whole fucking point of covering jazz standards. It isnt about how unique it is its about making it your own. this makes me think you dont play jazz music. nothing wrong with that, but it would explain why you think what do claimed
Daniel Baker
Those are just regular triplets unless you're counting the song in half time.
Which apparently you are. At least it makes sense at the beginning, but when they're playing in double time it doesn't make sense to still call them 16th note triplets.
Eli Walker
>well, he stays in playing major arrpegios and the major scale, and then during long running lines he oftern"dips" into dorian and locrian, an example is at 4:00 into the song.
Which dorian and locrian modes though? You are aware that those are just modes of the major scale right?
>litterally anytime a new artist plays a song they put their own spin on it, thats thw whole fucking point of covering jazz standards. It isnt about how unique it is its about making it your own. this makes me think you dont play jazz music. nothing wrong with that, but it would explain why you think what do claimed
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. But if every time a jazz artist plays a song, they put their own spin on it (as you seem to be claiming) then why even mention it at all? Why would that be proof of Autumn Leaves being a standout track or giving credibility to the album as you claimed?
Liam Morales
the drum solo sounds pretty much EXACTLY like i imagine an ok rock drummer's first attempt at a jazz-style solo would sound. he also crushes the shit out of that ride pattern, he's clearly not comfortable at that tempo
Cooper Clark
tbf the drumming on the whole album sounds like a decent rock drummer's attempt at jazz. the piano playing really isn't bad or anything but the drumming is.
Owen Perry
its not counting in half time if they're playing in double time. half of double time is just the normal tempo. on the score it would be written as 16th note triplets and shown that its double time. thats why the score litterally has them notated as 16th not triplets.
Chase Roberts
If the drums are playing in double time for an extended period of time, that should probably be reflected in the score. semantics though really.
post the score by the way
Benjamin Young
I feel it's definitely not true, but it needs very attentive listening, and most jazz musicians will notice it first through sheer experience. Essentially what said. It's less to do with only jazz musicians liking it, but people who listen to a lot of jazz (jazz musicians, essentially) will notice it first.
James Cruz
what do you mean which which dorian and locrian modes..? you answered your own question dude. im not familiar with the key of the song, but for the sake of discussion lets say its C, if the key is C and hes playing the respective dorian mode (D) (meaning he's playing the same scale yes, but starting on the 2 instead of the 1). the reason people do this is bc modes give the same scale a different sound. it is undenable that D dorian and C major sound radically different even though they are the same notes.
With the other part. his own spin on the track makes it stand out bc he established a thematic feeling of his playing along the album, which is what is so impressive considering it is his debut release and he started playing piano only 6 years before. i was saying the album gave credibility to his take on autum leaves, not the other way around. it was worded poorly. my b
Lincoln Myers
i dont have the full score, but the picture i posted before is part of it. thats what i was referring to. youre right though. all i was saying is that if u played that sectino of the song it's 16th note triplets based on the tempo if its like 70-80 or so but normal triplets if its 150-160. i guess its just a notation thing
Samuel Hughes
>what do you mean which which dorian and locrian modes..? you answered your own question dude. im not familiar with the key of the song, but for the sake of discussion lets say its C,
Well apparently it's in D minor according to the pic of the score you posted.
>if the key is C and hes playing the respective dorian mode (D)
Yeah so we'd call that the D dorian mode. And the corresponding locrian mode would be the B locrian. So that's what I was asking is which modes dorian and locrian modes he was playing. Basically trying to determine whether they are modes of different major scales or all the same.
>is undenable that D dorian and C major sound radically different even though they are the same notes.
I don't know that I'd go as far as saying that it's undeniable. It really depends on context.
Ethan White
>With the other part. his own spin on the track makes it stand out bc he established a thematic feeling of his playing along the album, which is what is so impressive considering it is his debut release and he started playing piano only 6 years before. i was saying the album gave credibility to his take on autum leaves, not the other way around. it was worded poorly. my b
I still really have no idea what you're saying here. But I wonder what makes Ryo Fukui's version of autumn leaves unique compared to say... this version by Wynton Kelly.
youtube.com
Besides the obvious fact that there is a short pedaled introduction in the Ryo Fukui version.
Carter Reyes
haha i didnt even think to check the key sig, good eye. im saying that hes playing D dorian and B locrian (not litterally, but in the hypothetcal key of C) every once inwhile according to my ears.
i think anyone would be able to tell the difference between someone playing D dorian and C major without a doubt every single time. they sound completely different man. like idk how u can say otherwise. the only context where they would sound similar is if you played like C (D E F G A B C) meaning a c leading into the d dorian which would just make it a c major scale.
Cameron Hill
idk about this
Samuel Reed
I thought this was pretty great. Sorry I can't say more than that. Free Jazz was also really good too. Any more like these two?
Oliver Brown
well simply bc it sounds like ryu fukui on his version and it doesn't onkelly's versoin. thats the point im trying to make. am example is the way fukui adds the grace notes on the second phrase of the melody, for one specific. but more than that the way he plays triplets is entirely different than kelly for example. it's the same way that montgomery and pat martino's round midnights are totally different, bc each have their own little touch to it. same reason no one will ever play guitar the way jerry garcia did even if they spend their whole lives trying to. when a musician devlopes touch, they add it to waht they cover. it is impressive that fukui developed this touch in such a short period and it showed for me on the album.
Bentley King
>i think anyone would be able to tell the difference between someone playing D dorian and C major without a doubt every single time. they sound completely different man.
Maybe if you're only playing one seven-note scale (or mode) in 2nds and you start and stop only on the 1st scale (or mode) degree. But what jazz soloist ever does that?
What if I played a line that went: G C F E D G C B A B C D E F E D E
Is that in C Major or D Dorian? Anyone should be able to play the difference without a doubt every single time right?
Nathan Clark
when youre playing lines it isnt like that. it comes down to whether the D or the C can be used on the changes or as a chord tone, more somes into than just where you start and stop but when youre just doing chromatic runs of triplets its pretty clear where it is dorian or major. hoenstly i may be wrong but its what i heard man and it was the best way i could describe it.
Tyler Baker
So according to this philosophy, every track ever recorded is someone putting his "unqiue spin" on something. Which brings us back around to the question: why even point it out at all if that's your philosophy?
Ethan White
Depends what the rhythm section is doing. Usually the bassist will keep things grounded by hitting a root note of the scale on the one beat or something like that.
Luke Perez
>when youre playing lines it isnt like that. it comes down to whether the D or the C can be used on the changes or as a chord tone, more somes into than just where you start and stop but when youre just doing chromatic runs of triplets its pretty clear where it is dorian or major.
I'm sorry to say that none of this makes any sense.
The bottom line is: the major scale and it's corresponding dorian mode are the same thing. Context is the only thing that separates them.
It's like the difference between an F# and a Gb on a piano. It's just different ways of writing or referring to the same thing.
Xavier Phillips
dude i have explained that so many god dmanded times its annoying. its impressive that he has developed a touch through the album that i enjoy. he takes that touch and puts it on his autumn leaves, the fact that he developed this sound and spin to it that i like, in such a short period of time is what makes it impressive and is why i pointed it out.
Kevin Cruz
That's my whole point really.
Christopher Peterson
And somehow you're still missing the point. Wouldn't he have put that touch on Autumn Leaves the first time he ever played it? Wouldn't everybody who ever played Autumn Leaves have put their touch on it? That's what your previous post would seem to imply. In which case I don't understand how Ryo Fukui doing that is impressive at all.
Brayden White
that is simply inncorrect. comparing D Dorian and C major's relation ship to that of enharmonic's is just incorrect man. Modes exist for a reason and it is simply not just writing things in different ways. why the fuck would they create 7 modes if there was no functionality to it. the reason there are enharmics in music is bc they write sharp when its ascending and flat when descending, its semantics pretty much, that is not how modes work my man.
"In the theory of Western music, a mode is a type of musical scale coupled with a set of characteristic melodic behaviors." (from wiki)
modes take the notes of a major scale and change the melodic behavior. when you make D the first scale degree (in D Dorian) it changes the way the other tones relate to the tonic. it changes everything about it. thats why modal jazz exists. if modes were so insignificant why is the greatest selling jazz record ever a fucking MODAL jazz album
Colton Garcia
no dude. his touch is developed thats the fucking point. and it is impressive how distictive and reckonizable it is.
Landon Hill
explain how that is your whole point. bc if the chord is a C and the bass player plays the C and the lead plays a line like D F A E C then its clearly D dorian hes playing in.
Austin Lopez
"Modes should not be equated with scales: principles of melodic organization, placement of cadences, and emotional affect are essential parts of modal content"
Henry Sullivan
Once again. Everything you're saying is really only relevant if you are playing very obvious, 1-octave scales/modes. Which jazz players hardly ever do.
Yes, you can say that the notes function differently depending on what you're calling the tonic note. They're still the same notes. That's my point. Almost like enharmonics! An F# has a very different function in a G major scale than a Gb does in an Eb minor scale.
>if modes were so insignificant why is the greatest selling jazz record ever a fucking MODAL jazz album
this actually made me laugh out loud though
Xavier Anderson
Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. So now I wonder what makes his touch distinctive and recognizable? Earlier you said something about grace notes but that doesn't make sense. There were grace notes all over the Wynton Kelly version of the Autumn Leaves melody. No, they weren't the exact same grace notes that Ryo Fukui used, but grace notes are hardly distinctive in jazz piano playing.
But you said triplets to so let's get more into that. What do you think makes Ryo Fukui's triplets distinctive and recognizable compared to Wynton Kelly, Bill Evans, or Ahmad Jamal?
Hunter Ortiz
The chord and bass are gonna make that lead line sound pretty C major though, even if he is attempting to play D dorian.
John Edwards
i dont belive you really play music man. it is just how modes work, the whole fucking point of them. it has nothing to do with only playing an octave of notes. each mode has a disctictly different character set to them. that is the whole point.
>depending on what youre calling the tonic note
you dont call something the tonic. it is the tonic that is the whole point. you hear it.
take So What for example. miles plays with D dorian for the majority of it (shifting to Eb dorian after 16 bars) but the song sounds NOTHING like its in C major. bc it fucking ISNT its in D dorian making it sound much darker. that it the point. so would u like to give me a explination for modal jazz that accounts for you claim that modes are just another way to refer to the major scale? or maybe you should just stick to arguing my opinion of Fukui's touch being distictive,instead of trying to talk theory which you clearly lack a working knowledge of.
Chase Stewart
And that's fine with me, but the seven modes we're discussing now are all derived from the major scale. They are modes of the major scale. They share the exact same notes as the major scale.
That's what I'm saying and nothing more.
Connor Robinson
na dude. get your instrument and play d dorian over a c maj chord. it still doesnt sound like c maj.
William Thomas
Well actually I'd probably call that C major considering what the bass player is doing and what the chord is supposed to be. But really you're just proving my point that it's really all about context and even then it's really pretty subjective.
Ayden Powell
it isnt about the grace notes or the triplets, its about how fukui uses and emlpoys those techniques. it is a subjectivity thing. i hear fukui when fukui solos. if u dont, then u dont. thats that man
Sebastian Perez
then you wouldnt have a great ear for it man. yes how you hear things is subjective, but if i play you, say, a major third interval and you say it wounds like a perfect fifth you would be objectively wrong
Isaac White
>take So What for example. miles plays with D dorian for the majority of it (shifting to Eb dorian after 16 bars) but the song sounds NOTHING like its in C major
Yeah, because the tonic note is D lol. No matter how you try to spin this, you can't change the fact that the C Major scale and the D dorian scale share the same exact notes.
Austin Mitchell
dude all of the modes are of the major scale. but it changes the flavor of the series of notes played. again. THAT IS THE POINT OF MODES. that was my point in bringing it up. the contrast between major and dorian is so strong bc a D dorian is the same as the minor with a raised 6, which created very iteresting contrast and tension when fukui plays them the way he does w his chromatic runs in his solo. that is the whole point. he uses modes to play yhe same notes in the same keybut creating contrasting feels.
Jayden Wood
never did i say they have different notes man. how do u not understand this.
okay so if d dorian and c major are different ways of saying the same thing (which you said) then So What might as well be in C maj. which is so incorrect man. anyone w any knowledge of even major v minor would tell u it isnt. and the fact that they sound so different proves that u can have the same notes and have totally different feels
Camden Moore
the keys Gb and F# sound the exact same, if its the same as modes why do d dorian and c major sound totally different man?
please. just do one google search "musical modes for beginners" and you will see. do that and send me anything that contradicts anything i have said.
Dominic Richardson
Wow. I had no idea you could objectively tell the difference between D dorian and C major just by listening.
Here I've got five examples for you. Why don't you tell me whether each one is C Major or D Dorian
1. vocaroo.com
2. vocaroo.com
3. vocaroo.com
4. vocaroo.com
5. vocaroo.com
Jackson Myers
Go back and read what I said. So What is obviously in D Dorian. D Dorian just happens to be the exact same notes as C Major.
Andrew Murphy
>if its the same as modes why do d dorian and c major sound totally different man?
They don't sound totally different. They sound exactly the same. Because they're the same notes. Just like Gb and F#. The context is what makes them sound different.
Samuel Green
It does though. When the rhythm section is playing C and you are hitting the same notes as the C major scale, it's going to sound in C no matter what mode you're trying to play.
Nolan Johnson
Herbie Mann has been one of my most inspiring jazz artists, he just seems to have his own style no one else has
Dylan Bailey
Does anybody else usually just feel overwhelmed by jazz? I like it a lot and recently I felt like I had kind of listened to a lot of jazz albums. But really I've only heard about 50 at most and there's just so many that I'll never hear.
Michael Gonzalez
Man, I just tried giving this a serious listen for the first time, and it really is as bad as everyone says. Fuck—terrible muddy voice leading, a touch that feels thin, really rushed rhythms, not much melody, jumbled vocabulary, very little originality, Jamey Aeborsold tier voicings, cheesy as shit 70’s straight ahead sound... and the fucking drumming. Jeez man, you should start listening a little more critically, no offence. But I guess if you aren’t familiar with much other jazz it would sound quite nice. There’s just so much out there that’s worlds better than Ryo.
Bentley Martin
Don’t worry about it, for every jazz album you like there will be hundreds you don’t like. Just keep listening to what you like and exploring things outwards from what you’re familiar with and it will be a very rewarding experience. What are some of your favourite records?
Kevin Diaz
Yeah the whole album sounds really amateur. Not bad for someone who has only been playing piano for six years but really not comparable in any way to the great jazz pianists.
Sebastian Walker
I guess, but keep in mind that he is not the only person to accomplish a decent skill on an instrument in six years—Tony Williams had only been playing for 6 years when he joined Miles Davis’ band and he had created a style of drumming unique to him and attained an insane technical ability. Obviously Tony’s probably one of the most extreme examples, but still...
Aiden Brooks
I think Tony Williams was playing drums since he was a toddler or something. Supposedly he was playing pro gigs with Sam Rivers and stuff when he was like 12 or 13. And also yeah, Tony Williams is a freak anyway.
Isaac White
Jesus what are you on about m8? You sound like one of those people who just reads Wikipedia articles and then thinks they know what they are talking about.
Lucas Hernandez
just listened to "lone jack" by metheny.
his tone is very mid-range heavy with a chorus effect so it blends in with mays' piano a lot of the time. its like it provides this cloud over the fretless bass runs and drum fills.
Elijah Green
listen to bitches brew next, and then a tribute to jack johnson and go from there
Sebastian James
I still don't know if people are being ironic about this album or not, I mean yes it's YT recommendation core, but judging by the comments I can figure out if it's some sort of joke I am not in on
James Long
I just ignore it man; it's not good enough to be good or bad enough to be good.
Grayson Harris
Great album, very slow, beautiful ballads. And some nice faster tunes in there.
Webster's tone is very mellow and warm
Herb Ellis plays some lovely guitar licks
Overall, an 8 out of 10 album.
Ian Adams
Try Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity (pic related right above your post, coincidentally)
Currently listening to Ghosts by Albert Ayler (renamed Vibrations in some reissues). Really solid album. Think I prefer the Spiritual Unity versions of Ghost, but it could be just because I'm used to them. Will try a couple more times with this one I think before deciding which I prefer
Wyatt Sanchez
Speak No Evil
Night Dreamer
JuJu
Liam Baker
Actually I'd say that the different modes of a major scale are pretty similar to enharmonic sharps and flats
David Rogers
I've mostly been listening to Art Taum compilation albums lately, and I don't have much to say about them as compilations, other than that I think Tatum is going to be one of the artists who never stop surprising and delighting me.
Andrew Roberts
Technically true but entirely useless to think about. D dorian is just D minor with a raised 6. Relating it to C major is overly complicating things for no good reason.
Xavier Taylor
>Relating it to C major is overly complicating things for no good reason.
lol wat. How is it complicated? They're the exact same notes? Besides, what about once you get into Locrian or Phrygian?
Connor Sullivan
If you're playing a tune in D dorian, you don't want to be thinking "Well I'll be starting this on the second note in C major". It's just D dorian. Thinking about C major is useless and only going to mess you up. It's the same principle with any mode.
Jaxon Evans
What do you think about if you're playing something in C locrian? You're thinking "oh it's just the C minor scale but with a b2, b5, b6, and b7"? Because that seems way more complicate than thinking "Db major but starting on C"
Luke Reyes
Yeah that's how you'd learn the C locrian scale at first, but when you have it learned, it's in your head and that's it. Same way you learn the major or minor scale. Bringing Db major into the picture is just unnecessary. You don't think of C major when you're playing in A minor.
Gabriel Ramirez
I'm not great at reviews but here goes.
This is almost like 2 different albums combined into one. Some of the tracks are basically acoustic avant garde free jazz and some of them are basically just pure electronic tracks. The acoustic tracks are really cool and John Escreet has a style that’s like somewhere between Cecil Taylor and Herbie Hancock. David Binney sounds good on them too and his unique style definitely fits in with the strange style of John Escreet’s compositions. The first track is especially good. There’s a repeating bass pattern that keeps going on while the band just goes crazy over it. But even though they are acoustic and you can hear a lot of influence from people like Cecil Taylor or Andrew Hill, there is something extremely modern sounding about the compositions that I can’t put my finger on.
The electronic tracks are cool too but they seem like they’re not really part of the same concept. Still it’s pretty cool to combine jazz and electronics at all so I will be looking into more albums by John Escreet. It just could have been better if he had combined the electronic concept with his acoustic compositions.
Does anybody know if any of John Escreet’s other albums are more smooth in combining electronics and acoustic playing?
Eli Garcia
Yeah but that's what we're talking about. How you think about the scale when you're learning it. That's what you were talking about here anyway.