Lets discuss big movements that were founded on music, art literature etc.
50's had jazz & beats, 60's had psych and hippies, 70's had disco & rock, 80's had big pop & hair/glam metal etc etc. All of these movements had some major impacts, but here in the modern age we see very little of these large scale surges towards a specific genre or direction. Is this because of the internet?
Does anybody think we will ever see this type of mass counterculture again?
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
vidlii.com
twitter.com
Give it two or three years. Mainstream culture has been so brutally forced down everyone’s throats this decade that some kind of counterculture movement is inevitable.
The question is, what will it be? What’ll it sound like? What will the philosophies behind it be?
Very good question - I feel like most of today's youth have access to such a huge amount of music, art etc via the internet, that big movements seem unlikely to emerge. People will complain online, protest online & sign petitions online and this just prevents the gathering of a big presence or scene within certain areas/locations.
all depends on trump
Care to elaborate?
>Reading
>Past high school
For what purpose
To answer what you said about scenes, they’re still around, just in a digital form. Scenes now are more tied to specific websites, the most obvious one right now being SoundCloud rap, although that one isn’t really a counterculture movement - quite the opposite, actually.
So, to find a specific scene that would be host to a counterculture movement, we’d have to pinpoint what website those in the movement go to.
i dont think an online based counterculture could be considered a real counterculture now because its the norm to be online
Sure, it’s normal to be online, though I was proposing the idea that maybe “counterculture” now would be people that use the Internet in a non-standard way or go to non-standard websites.
I think VidLii is a good example of this - it’s a website filled with a bunch of Gen Z-er’s that, despite wide differences in personality, all agree under the notion that the way the Internet is now is terrible and needs to be pushed back against or, for lack of a better word, “countered”.
There’s even a full album on there that perfectly summarizes what I’m talking about; it’s literally called “social justice whatever” and is a huge mish-mash of pieces from the Internet’s history, with some parts making subtle hints towards nihilism and whatnot.
Modern counterculture will never work as everyone has access to everything and therefore sees themselves as special snowflakes.
I think that’s the thing, though - the “mainstream culture” now is people who think that they’re special when they really aren’t, are obsessed with their self-image, and try to make everyone else like them. The counterculture right now would have to be teenagers who don’t care about self-image and just do whatever they want without thinking about if it might offend someone else or weird them out.
>muh arbitrary generational divides
We have the ANTIFA/Anti-alt right punk movement.
this, gen z is gonna start somethin big i can just feel it. the question is when will it start, and with who
I’ll give it till 2021 for something huge to break through. I mentioned VidLii already, although there seems to be other websites out there like FriendProject and NeoCities that seem to attract similar kinds of people that could potentially do something big.
But they’re all mega soy.
Do you not think these "divides" are just a natural process in which cycles are broken? Without them people get complacent and start living in routines
I don’t think counterculture movements have ever existed. A movement associated with the Beatles is never going to counter to the culture. I think you’re just thinking general cultural shifts. In that case, I’d say internet rap is the defining sound of the 2010s, starting with like odd future lil b and das racist and continuing into the pop end of it with SoundCloud rap. We’re definitely due for a reaction to it in the 2020s though.
holy shit these sites are super interesting, im boutta hop on these and start planting roots. thanks man
Delighted to see someone post this. Really gets to the root of this whole hauntology thing.
>go to vidlii out of curiousity
>full recreation of youtube circa 2007
WHAT
Ready to be super fucking embarrassed by the answer to this? The 10s? Our moment?
Trap and EDM (as in the marketing term i.e. Pop house trap pop brostep anything going at festivals basically). Smaller movements being nostalgiacore like tame impala and vaporwave. Just an utter trash musical decade t b h family
No problem, my good man.
It’s weird
It looks and feels exactly like old YouTube
I hope it take off
90's had norwegian counterculture, nu metal and rap
00's had -core scene and derivatives
10's had memes
vidlii.com
we already out here
the modern, mainstream online culture is social media and reddit. you can find cultures counter to that on obscure vbz forums and the deep web
this isnt an importnant movement, every knows the alt right sucks
check the monthly contest, hasnt been updated in months
its already dead
RIP
Hopefully something comes along to compete with YouTube eventually
You're out of touch, dude. SC rap, bedroom pop and beach-core are omnipresent among 18-25 year olds.
/thread
x v. y
divide and conquer
>dude it's normal to abuse drugs, murder, rape, steal, etc so soundcloud rap isn't counter culture.
Do you know how much of a brainlet you are? Soundcloud rap is just the successor of all the counter culture movements in the past, where previous societal ideas have been demolished and replaced with a new progressive standard, only for that new idea to be considered not progressive enough in a decade
however there are only so many morals that can be removed before people start rebelling against the essential fabric of society, sc rap is just the beginning
The main reason we don't have one is because it's too early to tell
we haven't had a chance to see its impact, or to see it in context
I wanna say trap and lit culture is the most likely candidate in this moment
b-but we are in the midst of it user
It’s community is actually pretty active. The administrators, on the other hand, do barely anything.
Im a lefty guitar player and I'm trying oh so hard to come up with something that'll shake the mainstream, I have a bass player and drummer who are great I just feel like I sound too much like nirvana rn
Care to post some of your band’s work? I’m interested.
I had some stuff on my old computer that was just solo but I fried it the other day, let it get too dusty.
My dad used to play in a bunch of honky tonky bands and did sound and mixing for a while so he's loading me up with his old equipment and hopefully my buddies and I can record some demos soon
Cool! If you get the chance, post them here or make a new thread about this topic if this thread dies. I always love hearing stuff from new bands!
For sure!
It comes out of memes. I'm not kidding. We are creating it. Its going to be fast, and more heavily involved with the new teens. Push shit
Hey, I just remembered that I have an account on this small start-up site called catchan.org. The website is super-slow in post quantity, so I’ll easily see when you post about your band.
I’ve actually been working on starting up a band too - so far it’s just me practicing guitar while my friends obsess over D&D, but, y’know, it’s a start.
Damn, these websites are great. You really struck gold here with this stuff
I'm checking out catchan rn, I'll post there when we record something we've wrote
Do you have anything recorded with your band?
Not at the moment, it’s VERY hard to pull away my friends from the regular D&D routine. I’ve mainly been practicing guitar on my own. I’ve considered just dropping them and making the bass and drums electronic.
Yeah we don't practice together super often either but I practice guitar a lot, and my buddy's been playing the drums since he was like 11.
I've tried that before, plugging in your guitar into your DAW with a cabinet simulator is gr8
Lately I’ve been experimenting with bit-crushed lead guitars over ridiculously distorted rhythm guitars. With the right mixing it sounds unacceptably good.
Oh man bit crushed lead guitar sounds pretty cool
It really does. Over techno-style beats, it sounds even crazier. I really want to experiment further with it and see how I would use it in a complete song.
dude you should definitely make a thread and post a complete song when you do
that'd be so cool
Aw, thanks!
I’ve actually mainly been an electronic musician for the longest time, and I’ve only recently picked up a guitar. It just sort of makes sense to put the two together.
Yeah I feel like there's so much unexplored territory in that combination
Yeah.
Say, do you have any sort of e-mail or something that I can contact you with? Talking with you about this stuff has been really fun.
Thanks, dude!
I’ll have to e-mail you tomorrow because it’s super-late where I am, but hopefully we’ll be able to chat again!
awesome! Fun meeting you
Fun meeting you too!
Since 2001 our timeline hasn’t shifted much. It’s been war in the Middle East, electing fringe presidents and a gridlocked Washington. The poor have gotten poorer and the rich have gotten richer. A movement will come this can’t sustain forever.
>here in the modern age we see very little of these large scale surges towards a specific genre or direction.
wrong. give it another 20 years and it'll all be put into perspective.
people in the 2000s used to say the 90s weren't memorable, now we know it as the era of grunge, death metal, gangster rap, and teen angst.
people earlier in the decade used to say the 2000s weren't as memorable as the 90s, now we know it as the era of boybands, reality tv, cell phones and commercialised pop.
the 2010s will likely go down as the era of dumb fuck-huge smartphones, trap, hookup culture, the popularisation of memes/internet culture, """"diversity"""" and trannies.
I predict that the 2020s will be the era of virtual reality, digital hyperconnectivity/real life hypoconnectivity, mass depression, nonsensical esoteric post-avantgarde tranny-pop, interracial relationships, and ugly shiny buildings.
The current counterculture is tame as shit but they think they are a lot more than what they are, at the bottom of it their motivations suck because they only ever try to be cool, all the innovation in music is now being directed to its presentation and appearance and marketing and imagery and less about the music itself
I fucking love these threads as an artist. I’m so obsessed with figuring out how I can help the world move forward.
Personally, I think that a critical part of any real quote unquote revolution against current western society would have to inherently involve a sort of anti-celebritism. Unfortunately this poses the basic problem of “but then where will the leaders come from?” Ten years ago, this was happening to some degree with certain *forums* working as de facto leaders of counterculture movements (including Sup Forums, of course) but now that Sup Forums and the relevant internet in general has mostly been neutered and/or co-opted, before that movement got enough steam to really shake things up at surface-level, we might have to give that up—though the websites posted in this thread are really exciting to me and I’m gonna make an effort to check them out for sure.
But, then, if the internet turned sour on us, we may have a potential straight up anti-tech movement on the horizon. the only winning move is not to play, right? This phenomenon has been a dependable touchstone of humanity for centuries if not millennia, and we’re due for it. this would work if it got centralized enough, but here again is the problem—in our hi-tech and paranoid world, how else is there to centralize that isn’t playing into the hands of the opposition? So, if this DID happen, it would need to be decentralized, founded on ideas so universal that it becomes fundamentally cool and powerful just to engage in them. In music specifically, I could see a return to 70s-era ambition on the horizon, but truth be told we lost the historic thread the moment the internet took off, and in all the recent mediums used to describe a time period—music and fashion especially—there’s been a massive splintering if everyone off into their own bubbles. The cloying trends toward mindless acceptance aren’t helping, but provided we can eventually moderate I think they’re incredibly necessary.
>Lefty
You can't shake the mainstream. You are the mainstream.
this comment supports Fisher's thesis
wtf are u talking about dude
Tentative opinion:
The internet, by constantly self-actualizing, eliminates the notion of "instants of time" instead offering the ilusion of a "stream of time."
Changes, by being constant and minute, are put in place gradually enough as to give the impression of having always been that way. Only by going back several years through an archive can you see the changes in a more obvious manner.
The impression of an "instant of time" was typically due to the format of release of projects (a book, an album, etc) whereas the internet gives the impression of a more constant, neverending supply (a chain of singles from a sc artist, a blog).
This gradual format, while less cohesive (and arguably weighty) than previous iterations is instead more flexible due to its aforementioned (and unprecedented) ability to self-actualize.
Td;dnr the internet itself killed the notion of time periods, at least looking from the inside.
To continue: but where and when does an anti-tech, decentralized revolution make sense? And are we already on the wrong side of history, as internet addicts?
To the latter, Id say, yes and no. The internet is so invaluable in how it’s connected us all together literally and ideologically, but such a fucking evil curse in that it inherently and severely muddies the waters of any clear intent, while simultaneously producing dangerous echo chamber’d versions of these ideals that end up being dashed against the rocks of our hyper-critical reality almost every time. In theory, and almost paradoxically, a real counterculture MOVEMENT would have to be as intelligently packaged for the internet as the opposition is. It must exist as an incredibly potent germ, so downright interesting and memetic in its own right (which might not even be what we want, yet another “interesting thing,”) that it propagates and becomes impactful. It would have to be something that people fall in love with but can’t get on Facebook or Buzzfeed or Reddit. What that is, I can’t say, but I believe it exists. In this respect, the rebellion will likely not be AGAINST people like us, but almost in pity of us. And we, mindless masses, will eat it up because it’s the first thing in years that has ever really made us feel alive. That shit got Trump into the White House, or at least partway there, so it can be done and it can be done again, this time for the sake of real progress.
To the first question, then, I’d say it could start any day now, but it will almost certainly be orchestrated by the *children* of the smartphone generation, who rebel against our passivity without hating us, and can escape the trap we’ve fallen into. This will, perhaps, be at least partially characterized in music by a huge value placed on EFFORT over style, but we will almost certainly never return to our single musical consciousness—music as waves on a timeline is sadly a thing of the past.
Man i dunno, I think about this a lot—actually I’m in school for it, specifically the evolution of music scenes. Hopefully I make sense to someone but I recognize it’s a lot.
Yeah this is basically what I’m saying, though idk if I jive with yr use of “self-actualize.”
i knew what you were talking about
i just wanted to make you feel bad for sharing a wall of text that nobody would read
now i want to make you feel bad for doing it again
wtf r u talkin abt dude
>instants of time
>stream of time is an illusion
the universe is analog, retard
What i meant by self-actualize is the it updates itself early constantly
We are the equivalent of neocon yuppies in the 80s. De-regulation was a moral imperative, profits were the only yardstick with which to measure any sort of enterprise. Consumerism and all that.
Our version is different. Technology = God, any progress is great. Like in the yuppies in the 80s, us, drowning in our tech success, a vision of the future at hands, we havent really considered the repercussions of all this.
The yuppie bankers didnt really have to face the outcome of their irresponability -- we did (the west became largely unaffordable and tremendously unequal.)
Likewise, we won't inherit the disease that developed through our nonstop obsession with technology -- Gen Z will. You can see it already
Human experience is based on the ability to draw narratives, ie stories ie instants of time friendo :^)
Think of how any memory works
so then surely the idea of "instants of time" was an illusion and the notion of a "stream of time" is a viewpoint more coherent with the actual mechanics of reality
Im not arguing from a physics standpoint, i'm arguing from a human psychology standpoint.
Time as a human experience is only tenuously related to the mechanical reality of it
human experience is gay
