The Downward Spiral strikes just the right balance between obviousness and abstraction to serve as a major magnet for a wide variety of pseuds and intellectual underlings of all ages. It's obvious enough for any emotionally stunted loser who still hasn't gotten over Nietzsche to latch onto it as a vehicle for his own vapid catharsis while being just abstract enough to become unpalatable for normal people who listen to Top 40 radio, thus encouraging a massively inflated sense of worth(of the record) and self-worth(of said pseuds because they "get it" and oh, the sheep just do not and can not and never will understand the genius of Trent Reznor's offensively banal "concepts") in the aforementioned pseuds. The end result is an album which engenders intellectual laziness like not many other high-profile pop era records of its era, which is almost a sort of an achievement. At least with Oasis you knew what you were getting, there was no way to even attempt to intellectualize a song like Champagne Supernova(which doesn't mean it's entirely bereft of merit).
TDS is an "art rock" record which takes no musical/cultural knowledge whatsoever beyond the most basic bitch pop culture landmarks to properly digest and it offers next to no further encouragement for people to get into proper culture on their own, the end result being that they remain stuck in mid-to-late teen mindsets and tastes for the rest of their lives. They're still happy arguing about Nirvana(who did actively encourage people to look for real shit and deserve credit for that) and analyzing Marilyn Manson lyrics on Reddit well into their 30s, which is fucking pathetic any way you cut it. Their idea of apex culture are The Dark Knight and Fight Club.
Of course these people could listen to Godflesh, but Godflesh are best enjoyed when you understand the cultural and geographic environment from which that band arose, when you understand the goings-on in underground music(including everything from extreme metal to techno to more left-field ambient forms to post-industrial electronics) of the time, as much in the 90s as today. Or they could listen to Coil or Laibach or Neubauten, but those artists absolutely cannot be engaged with on any meaningful level without at least some familiarity with various artistic and countercultural(and in Laibach's case also political) movements to arise throughout the 20th century. There's a wealth of content and substance with those artists beyond the surface level, whereas Nine Inch Nails IS the surface level and nothing more. With Nine Inch Nails there's no obstacles of that sort and no reason to put in any true effort, it's music obvious and banal enough for a 14-year old boy to comprehend it almost immediately. There's a reason why Linkin Park covered Wish and Fred Durst regards Reznor as one of his personal heroes, and both Durst and Reznor are master producers of the musical equivalent of McDonald's.
Every single thing said above also applies entirely to Tool and, to a lesser degree, Radiohead as well. That said I would much, much rather have 15-year old kids discovering "real music" via formative experiences provided for them by OK Computer and Amnesiac than The Downward Spiral or, even worse, The Fragile.
Please post these on RYM. It would be fucking amazing.
Christopher Smith
cool, bait
Aaron Campbell
he's right you know
Christopher Baker
Trent Reznor's Nine Inch Nails changed dramatically the fate of industrial music. Reznor created a persona that was a cross of Dostoevsky's "demons", Goethe's Werther, Nietzsche's "ueber-mensch", and De Sade's perverts. Technically, Reznor took elements from Throbbing Gristle, Pere Ubu, Foetus and Ministry and filtered them through the new computer technology. Reznor thus changed the very meaning of "rock band": the band was him, singer and arranger. Brutal music, nihilistic lyrics and claustrophobic atmospheres turned Pretty Hate Machine (1989) into the manifesto/diary of an entire generation. Few albums better summarize the spirit of the 1990s than The Downward Spiral (1994). Each song is both a battlefield for the highest possible density of truculent sound effects and a largely-autobiographical ode-psychodrama. The thundering polyrhythms, the chaotic and cacophonous orgies, the grotesque "danse macabres", the chamber blues pieces, the harsh counterpoints, the mournful melodies were carefully assembled to deliver the sense of a man without a past or a present or a future, a man who was a pure abstraction in search of meaning, pure form in search of content.
Cameron Ross
how the fuck is it bait can you even fucking read past a 3rd grade level? what part of this isn't true?
Josiah Foster
you were correct until you mentioned Radiohead
if you're seriously trying to argue that Radiohead are an objectively poor band at this point - you lost the argument, and quite some time ago
Easton Gomez
Radiohead is entry level garbage.
Matthew Perez
Funk-metal turned into something completely different, halfway into the decade, withe the advent of Korn. Jonathan Davis embodied the post-yuppie pessimism at the turn of the century, and made a career of focusing on the anxieties of disaffected teenageers of the middle-class. Thus the tone of Korn (1994) was bleak, and, while not as aggressive as other funk-metal bands, it had few rivals in terms of dramatic tension. It was only fitting that Life Is Peachy (1996) and Follow The Leader (1998) were confused and insecure albums, compensating a lack of songwriting skills with an emphasis on mood swings and claustrophobic atmospheres.
Jonathan Garcia
You took a relatively good post and bastardized it to copypasta. Congratulations on your cancer diagnosis.
Christopher Morales
>Radiohead is entry level agreed >garbage prove it
*listens to 90's era Nine Inch Nails once and applied it to the rest of Reznor career* He was an edgy little shit, sure. Not so much anymore.
Jeremiah Lopez
old farts like bowie, p-orridge and coil with already established legacies had nothing to lose which is why they've collabed with trent
meanwhile fresh new acts like rdj and ae knew better than to work with the king of mallgoths, to the point aphex used an original track instead of remixing trent for the tds remix album
Matthew Butler
nu-nin is even worse because it's derivative electro-industrial synthpop instead of slightly interesting industrial rock
would rather listen to 00's skinny puppy than shit like year zero which was literally made in the course of a month of fruity loops
Nicholas Hill
2000s Nine Inch Nails is even shittier than 90s Nine Inch Nails but since NIN haven't had any real wide-reaching relevance since the mid-90s it doesn't matter anyway. With Teeth was an Audioslave/Foo Fighters-tier bland modern rock radio piece of shit and the less said about Reznor's attempts at "sophisticated" music like ambient or "IDM", the better. And 2010s Nine Inch Nails just doesn't merit any thought or analysis at all. Nobody cares except for people who weren't even born when TDS came out and people whose intellectual development peaked when TDS came out.
> what part of this isn't true? Pretty much everything.
Grayson Flores
Good argument.
Josiah Watson
The best this rym-tier pasta deserves.
Brody Miller
Good argument (II).
Brandon Collins
I wrote the OP in a NIN thread a few days ago and I tried my best to word it in a way which made it clear that I wasn't shitting on Top 40 listeners or Radiohead or Nirvana or Oasis or any of the bands I mentioned aside from NIN(and Marilyn Manson, obviously). I have some respect for Radiohead. Meeting People Is Easy is a great documentary.
Dominic Lewis
Glad you agree.
Sebastian Cooper
Did Trent hurt the two of you at some point? Is this what is going on? Did he say something mean or something and now you're on Sup Forums getting madder and madder about someone you never met ?
James Moore
I agree with you on the whole NIN thing though.
Edgy shite for the pre-nu metal era of edgy teens
Cameron Wright
modern NIN audience is 20-and-30-something introverted white guys. go figure.
Jaxson Jones
i don't think we read the same thing. everything he wrote makes sense. in fact it's a lot of the same criticism NIN got from other, more talented, less popular artists of that era.
Ethan White
Like you know why they did what. You like The Dillinger Escape Plan, user?
Adrian Brooks
>le trent sama totally PWNS all these other buttrock fags! NIN is the greatest electronic-metal-rock-avantgarde artist ever xDDDD >WHY ARE YOU SHITTING ON MY MALLGOTH ICON IT'S NOT FAIR STOP IT
Oliver Ross
Only one I'm aware of is the guy from Skinny Puppy calling NIN buttrock. Any other examples?
Bentley Cooper
You're only proving my point. Keep getting madder. I'm enjoying this.
Jace Rivera
this
Luis Rodriguez
none of nine inch nails music sounds like idm you moron. did you listen only to first 5 songs from ghosts?
Dominic Kelly
Imagine thinking you could get famous screeching like a goblin over Looney Tunes clips, then getting mad when someone with a little more savvy scooped up your audience.
Evan Bailey
>redditor takes the bait personally
Anthony Allen
And yet, your arguments still barely talk about the actual musicality of the album itself, it all just boils down to you intepreting concepts of the album being lacking without having any merit, claiming it has intellectual laziness while never properly explaining why.
You talk about culture and culture, but I fail to see how any of this dumb shit makes the album sound any less layered or amazing.
Then there are absolutely stupid arguments, such as arguing that bad artists liking another artists means that artist is automatically bad. It doesn't make any sense.
Julian Price
>Edgy shite for the pre-nu metal era of edgy teens
Pretty much, yeah. I see a lot of people calling NIN nu-metal nowadays and while that isn't really true they were definitely the closest thing to nu-metal out there until nu-metal actually happened.
>And when I suck you off not a drop will go to waste >It's really not so bad, you know once you get past the taste a+ wit right there
ninfags on Sup Forums think the people hating their icon are all the same person(s) so yeah, go figure
Tyler Lee
>see three people call NIN nu-metal on Sup Forums for a year and a half straight. >"i see a lot of people call NIN nu-metal."
Nathaniel Wright
It wasn't actually over his music so much as the lewd shit that went on at NIN tours, which was actually perpetrated by some traveling sideshow that kept popping up at them. I don't think SP had any belief that they'd ever be as famous.
Hudson Taylor
i know they're far from perfect, but i was thinking of the little jab Kurt Cobain took at them on his MTV live performance, and the Elliott Smith song "We're All Friends Now" that basically calls him a washed up sellout. I know most of us weren't around in the early 90s when NIN blew up, but I felt like those examples (in addition to actually listening to NIN a lot when I was younger) paints a picture.
Dylan Johnson
Godfleshcucks being angry at NIN once again I see Godflesh fucking sucks even compared to NIN, get over it, kiddos
Mason Adams
No one defends Starfuckers, but people shoved money down on the table compared to Ogre screeching about teenage suicide.
Nathan Barnes
TDS is a really well arranged and produced album that unfortunately has pretty mediocre songwriting bringing it down to a 5-6/10.
Your garbage "essay" is a 4/10 at best.
Jeremiah Anderson
A young band does shit things on their first tours, all of which inspired by what Uncle Al taught them. Color me surprised.
Jacob Anderson
>TDS is a really well arranged and produced album Pales compared to Portishead, Disco Inferno or any other band with actual talent at their hand.
Nolan Reyes
>Disco Inferno >talent My sides
Gavin Ross
Disco Inferno are trash though
Jayden Miller
It's kind of stupid to imply Trent doesn't have a talent.
Aaron Ramirez
>mallgoths having malltrash taste Colour me surprised.
Anthony Smith
Have you ever tried listening to The Downward Spiral on anything better than a phone speaker?
Adam Morgan
>Elliot Smith *Waits until he dies to release Trent Reznor diss track*
Xavier Nguyen
>Colour Busted the mad Canadian Skinny Puppy fan.
Andrew Scott
>Godfleshcuck projecting his mallgoth insecurities Lmaoing at you rn
Gabriel Hernandez
Have you tried listening to more music than MTV trash for 14 year old skinheads?
Levi Lee
If you posted this in that thread where I actually wrote that post(primarily to distract myself while waiting for someone) I would have probably been willing to get further into it. Right now though, I really can't be bothered to do anything more than post shit people would be better off listening to instead of wasting their time with NIN.
It wasn't really meant to be an essay or a review or anything desu, it was just a rant written to entertain myself.
>namecalling but still no argument what makes their overglorified Chester Bennington better than the bands they're making fun of :^)
Ethan James
Is Front Line Assembly any good?
Carter Richardson
I'm going to still listen to NIN rather to a butt-blasted user on annonymous message board
Ethan Parker
Are you into Meat Beat Manifesto, user? They're another act that did NIN back before NIN were doing anything of significance.
John Fisher
Yeah it happens from time to time. Both artists you mentioned are good but neither of them ever got as creative with production as nine inch nails. Just use your ears and try to stop thinking about what people on Sup Forums tell you.
Josiah Miller
If you're seriously asking why NIN is better than Godtrash you're legit retarded.
Grayson Sanders
You might want to migrate to r/nineinchnails to spare yourself all the toxic triggering here, user :^)
Jonathan Bennett
Not getting triggered but nice try.
Caleb Morgan
>Two years later after writing this song Smith signed a contract with DreamWorks Records, Hmmmm really something to ponder about.
>started off making industrial, dark ambient and power electronics and putting the material out on self-released tapes >recorded numerous highly coveted cassettes, including releases put out on labels operated by The Grey Wolves and Tim Gane of later Stereolab fame >joined Napalm Death and played lead guitar on the superior side of one of the most influential and visionary records in extreme rock music history >quit Napalm Death and moved to drums in Head Of David, cutting a record with Steve Albini >recorded several sessions for John Peel with both Napalm and HOD >quit both Napalm and Head Of David on amiable terms with the other members(a sign of quality character) and later went on to go on joint tours with Napalm in the 90s while still regularly praising Head Of David in interviews(whereas Trent Reznor still has a high-school girl's appetite for petty melodrama and personal fallouts with people) >only then focused on Godflesh, the band that would become his signature project and a massively influential and highly respected band in its own right that would go on to influence several generations of musicians and earn the respect of everyone from Glenn Danzig to Kevin Martin to Dominick Fernow >all this before he even turned 20
and you're telling me that I'm supposed to take Trent Reznor as seriously if not even more seriously than this man? Are you fucking joking?
>earn the respect of everyone from Glenn Danzig to Kevin Martin to Dominick Fernow
And Kurt Cobain and Jarboe and Alec Empire and Skullflower and John Zorn and Bill Laswell and Oxbow and all the big Birmingham hard techno guys and so on and so on...
It was like two years after TDS came out. Pretty far from their first tour.
Kayden Peterson
That's because he doesn't make music similar to this. You faggots keep comparing nin to industrial artists while nine inch nails is very distinctive and not even close to being industrial music (excluding Broken and PHM). I'd say listen to Eraser but you probably already made up your mind.
Oliver Ross
Nine Inch Nails' remix albums are some of the worst pieces of shit ever released by a major label(aside from a couple of cuts on Broken and whatever the TDS remix album was called). I don't know how anyone could even begin to defend any of those records.
>meanwhile fresh new acts like rdj and ae knew better than to work with the king of mallgoths, to the point aphex used an original track instead of remixing trent for the tds remix album
I remember occasionally reading these interviews with the Warp guys back when Nothing and Warp had a US distribution deal going on(with Nothing fucking up the US distribution/release of Warp's records on more than one occasion, but that's a different story) and whenever the question of Trent Reznor came up they would all come off as a bit embarrassed by the connection. It was pretty funny.
NIN > AFX/AE Fuck off already soyshit, your shitty lel so glitchy and melodic roflchopter so randum eidems xD are devoid of talent.
Sebastian Powell
>soyshit, your shitty lel so glitchy and melodic roflchopter so randum eidems xD
Are you 13? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Jeremiah Butler
Solid fucking album. Great production values, some of my favorite actually. Interesting songwriting and a lot of memorable lines. I don't get why this board goes full autistic retard screeching whenever this album is brought up, but then again this is the place where that shitcunt grimes is liked unironically, so whatever.
Are you 40, you stupid goddamn oldfart? No one even likes shit like your pic related and the experimental """IDM""" shit like Aphex and Ae. Pop will always be the past, present and future of music, like it or not, fuckface.
