Do they count as hair metal or not?
Do they count as hair metal or not?
Yes, because they look gay.
Not really and stop posting threads about meathead dadrock fratbro trash like this.
No but they were one of the formative influences on it.
No, but I definitely think the crunchy guitar sound was a big influence on 80s heavy metal. They certainly have a decent number of straight up metal songs on their early albums ("On Fire", "DOA", "Light Up the Sky", "Romeo Delight" ,"Mean Street"). JMO
No, I wouldn't consider Van Halen to be metal at all. They were the single biggest influence on the 80s Glam Metal scene though. I also would not consider Guns N Roses or most of the 2nd wave Hair bands to be "metal" either.
Motley Crue, Ratt, Twised Sister, WASP, Dokken, Quiet Riot, Def Leppard (started in the NWOBHM), and the likes were certainly more of metal bands than Warrant, Bon Jovi, Poison, Cinderella, Winger, and Faster Pussycat.
Van Halen are one of those bands that's hard to pin down, they're really if anything a bridge between 70s and 80s rock. They dominated the rock world during the period after Aerosmith and KISS had burned out and before hair metal and thrash took over, but by the mid-80s had gotten more poppy and basically just a heavier Foreigner.
DLR was nothing like hair metal frontmen personality-wise or vocally or in terms of his songwriting. None of the hair metal guitarists had Eddie's chops either, they could only poorly copy a few of his more obvious techniques. And don't get me started on Mike Anthony and Alex's rhythm playing versus the generic, flat beat that 90% of hair metal bands used.
I agree, Dave isn't anything like a hair metal frontman, he kind of comes off as more of a drunk lounge singer in a heavy rock band. And I also agree that all the hair metal bands idolized Van Halen, Aerosmith, and AC/DC and wanted to be them, but that doesn't mean any of those bands were hair metal.
They were often referred to back in the day as a metal band (for example, Christgau referred to them as such) but I don't consider them metal and Eddie also outright denied that they were. They didn't have any sci-fi or fantasy lyrics and the heaviest songs they ever made would be stuff like Romeo Delight (WACF isn't their heaviest album either even though people like to say it was).
Yeah! Post another 69 thread or a grimes thread! We need less diversity on this board
Or, you know, another Lavren stalker thread.
Genesis lyrics were fantasy and they weren't hair metal, were they
You can argue that Van Halen were like hair metal progenitors in the way Dragonforce has little in common with Black Sabbath but they are clearly part of a lineage
Metal is an attitude and Van Halen never gave off that particular attitude.
Hair metal is an 80s thing. Van Halen's first album came out in the late 70s and they toured with Aerosmith, REO Speedwagon, Robin Trower, Ted Nugent, and other big names in 70s rock. Also the bifurcation of rock into different subgenres was an 80s thing, in the 70s there was pretty much just "rock".
Actually the hair metal era would coincide with the late 80s Van Hagar incarnation of the band, but even there they didn't dress like a hair metal band and their songs were more like soccer mom anthems.
And don't get me started on Mike Anthony and Alex's rhythm playing versus the generic, flat beat that 90% of hair metal bands used
It's hard to say since it's quite possible that Eddie was playing bass on some of their songs. Some bass lines like Running With The Devil are very rudimentary while others like Dirty Movies are much more elaborate.
Yeah they do because they look gay.
Michael Anthony is a great bassist for what Van Halen does, and his backing vocals are awesome
I don't buy it. Given the kind of egotist that Eddie is, if he actually did play bass on those songs, you can be sure he would have let the world know about it. Since he's never claimed he did, we can safely assume it's all Michael Anthony's playing.
he was a perfect fit
they weren't Cynic ya know
Dude... they fucked more pusy than you've ever even jerked off to.
It's hard to say, but the bass line on Dirty Movies is very distinct and sounds nothing like MA's usual style.
I never remember any hair metal band writing a song like The Cradle Will Rock or D.O.A.. And while we're at at, the latter's lyrics about being a bored teenager with nothing to do on a summer afternoon would be pretty much unrelatable to kids today because nowadays you can spend all day online indoors with the blinds drawn and never be exposed to natural light.
Van Halen inspired hair metal, definitely Motley Crue and friends were their direct descendants--all spandex, shredder solos, and lyrics about boning groupies that girls loved.
The real metal of course came from the UK NWOBM bands and that's what led to thrash.
To me, it sounded like Eddie was influenced by Ritchie Blackmore, Alex by Billy Cobham, and Dave by Al Jolson.
I don't hear it. Eddie's playing style and Richie's are almost nothing alike.
For one thing, Eddie's riffs are very bluesy/funky and borrow a lot from Hendrix and Clapton whereas RB is a straight-ahead rhythm player who mostly just plays single note riffs.
It wasn't much different, the spandex and shredder solos were there.
Just instead of riding in a corvette to fuck a hot blonde, they were riding a horse to slay a dragon
No! they created hair metal...and thrash metal...but were neither.
They were the progenitors of the LA Sunset scene when spawned Hair Metal...all the singers wanted to be Diamond Dave and all the guitarists wanted to be Edward...
first metal band to smile...
Plebs never fucking know...a fucking juggernaut they were for a few years there...
(WACF isn't their heaviest album either even though people like to say it was).
I thought the consensus on VH's heaviest album was Fair Warning?
implying his pipes aren't a good enough reason to keep him
They are beyond metal. Ever see the movie twins? Van Halen where Julien and Metal is all the left over genetic material you mongs covet. Greatest shredder in history in a band thats all about partying, pussy and being chads. Metal is the biggest loser scene in musical history. Taking 1 aspect and defining your entire being. You are a bunch of Danny Devitos.
tfw Kurt Cobain shit on Van Halen in interviews because he was too ashamed to admit that they were the first band he ever saw live
His whole career was just rewriting DOA again and again with less skill.
And Dave's Chuck Berry-esque knack for narrative/storytelling lyrics.
Too bad Eddie was never again able to recreate the tone he used on the first two albums.
None of the hair metal guitarists had Eddie's chops either, they could only poorly copy a few of his more obvious techniques
Come on, a lot of hair metal guitarists had seriously god-level chops--80s rock guitar reached a pinnacle of technical sophistication.
Eddie was more than technical wankery.
Anyone can spot Eddies playing from miles away.
Not really, no. Actually quite a lot of hair metal guitarists were pretty fucking terrible which is why the guy you're replying to said how they only knew how to play a few of EVH's more obvious tricks. Everyone knows that CC Deville had absolutely no playing skills at all, Warrant used session players on their albums, and Mick Mars was rightly called "dork-fingered" by Christgau. His playing did get a little better later on, but he still never developed any sense of taste. Michael Angelo Batiste was also shit even though he still does guitar clinics. Some guys like Warren DeMartini and Reb Beach were good players, but I would say most of them were not at all.
The funny thing about that is that Motley Crue's songs in many cases have aged better than a lot of their peers because Mick Mars wasn't able to pull off that EVH shredder guitar sound that dates 80s rock so poorly (well, he did try a few times like on "Jailhouse Rock" with comically awful results).
It's too bad that the grunge era saw the guitar solo deprecated.
I think the next logical step in rock at that time was seen as being MBV or some other noise industrial shit, too bad it sucked butt.
Huh? I know Warrant used a session guitarist on their first album but isn't there plenty of live footage showing them playing the guitar leads?
Playing solos someone else wrote is no big deal, cover bands do it all the time.
Steve Stevens was good
Apparently when Warrant did their first album, the producer didn't like any of the solos they'd come up with, so he had a session guitarist play instead. They didn't get full creative control until album three.
Mick Mars is better than that, he came up with some neat riffs and also solos (listen to Danger if you don't believe me). Unfortunately a lot of people have had their minds shaped by snarky Youtube documentaries and guys like Christgau.
Danger doesn't impress me that much. It has an average at best solo that also appears to be ripped off of some other song. I can't say for sure where he stole it from, but I know I've heard it somewhere before. I agree MM was a pretty good rhythm player, but his solos were nothing special.
It sounds kind of like While My Guitar Gently Weeps. As for grunge deprecating solos, not at all, actually some of the grunge guitarists were quite capable lead players. Jerry Cantrell did some very nice Hendrix-style blues rock in a laid-back kind of way. Kim Thayall's solos, while not especially stand out-ish on the records, are actually fairly weird and interesting if you try to play them yourself.
If anything is reductive here, it's Motley Crue's approach to music. The solo in Danger is absolutely infantile and Vince Neil has got to be the luckiest (and laziest) rock frontman ever. Pedestrian as fuck song by a band that's pretty much the poster child for all that's disliked about hair metal. Even their image was conflicted--they couldn't figure out whether they were about heavy metal or strippers. In the end, the strippers won out--I think heavy metal might have required more commitment than these guys were ever up for.
IDK, but I'm sure if I went to a Motley Crue or Bon Jovi concert back in the day, there would be thousands of girls there and I could get laid at the drop of a hat. I don't think if I went to a Swans gig, there would be any females anywhere to be seen.
FWIW my aunt went and saw GNR in the early 90s and they had the Boob Cam where the video board in the concert hall would close up on some girls whipping out their tits while the cavemen in the audience were cheering. She said the whole thing was creepy and scary and after that, she didn't want anything more to do with GNR.
Today she's an important politician in New York state politics and still looks great.
be Van Halen
be manlet in fucking Netherlands
become best dutch guitar player
fucks more girls than any dutch man ever
I didn't say MM wasn't technically a capable guitarist, i said he never developed any sense of taste as a player.
You've got to remember that at the start of the 80s, punk and New Wave were the big musical movements being championed by the rock press. Christgau et al didn't like metal of course so they largely ignored NWOBM and other such developments happening at the time. The Police and The Cars were big. Everyone assumed The Knack and Piper were going to be big.
The earliest albums released by Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister, W.A.S.P., and Motley Crue were released overseas--the major US labels wouldn't even give them the time of the day. Only in 1983 when Metal Health and Shout at the Devil blew up did the industry start signing hair metal bands.
Anyway, whenever old hair metal bands perform today, they just wear jeans and a T-shirt or a headband or something instead of makeup and drag.
Hair metal was good-time fun music about partying and getting laid. It was in-tune with the booming US economy during the Reagan years and it's no coincidence that the year hair metal broke big (1983) was the year that the early 80s recession started lifting. What killed it off finally was a renewed economic recession at the start of the 90s...and eventually the late 90s, another boomtime for the US economy, saw upbeat bands like Blink 182 and Sugar Ray take over.
In regards to Motley Crue, yeah, they were pretty bad. Let us break it down.
Vince Neil: Even back when he still had his full vocal power, he was still an amazingly lazy singer and didn't even use it half the time and since rejoining the band in the late 90s he looks like he ate 20 boxes of Tasty Kakes.
Mick Mars: In an era when every guitarist was trying to one-up each other in how fast and technical they could play, he wasn't even in the race. Dork-fingered indeed.
Tommy Lee: Look up some live footage of his drumming "skills". And you thought Lars Ulrich was shitty, but wow, just wow.
Nikki Sixx: Even admitted he can't do anything on bass except play root notes. Also the fact that he's died a bunch of times and somehow been resuscitated each one is proof that even the Grim Reaper won't have him.
That final wave of hair metal bands in 88-90 like Warrant, Winger, and Nitro were absolutely a joke. I think the proof of this was in how Warrant's members were all basically anonymous except for Jani Lane. At least with Motley Crue and Poison, everyone knew the names of each member. Then again, Poison got big mostly because Motley took almost two years between Theater of Pain and Girls, Girls, Girls. I doubt they would have gotten anywhere without that lucky timing.
FWIW Motley and Poison's members all had silly names that were easy to remember and also Jani Lane had been active in the Los Angeles scene since the early 80s.
No because they're actually good.