/who/ - Doctor Who General

Army of Ghosts/Doomsday edition
What does /who/ think of this episode?

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Don't care what that one user said, I"m still posting this because I hope someone will get some joy out of it. The Second Volume is fucking baller. About to start the 3rd volume.

In honor of the passing of John Hurt, I present the first three volumes of the War Doctor's Big Finish adventures. If you enjoy this series, I highly recommend you visit the Big Finish main page and support them by purchasing some of your favorite stories.
bigfinish.com/ranges/v/monthly-series


abcd.com/file/4j24lk3f71bpiu0/WDV123.txt.txt
>Replace ABCD with mediafire
>Follow the instructions.

>You have to have Daleks, Angels, Cybermen, Sontarans etc which can't be "genderized" that way.
While we're on the subject, why aren't there female Cybermen? It makes no sense. We've seen women be converted before, but after conversion they always have the same male voice.

I know someone's going to bring up the Cyberwoman now but I'm being serious. Cybermen should obviously include women too. In fact, the Cybermen's design would be improved if they weren't all so uniform and actaully gave off the impression that they used to be people.

Sounds like you're saying too many female characters would ruin the show, without really having a justified reason for believing it.

>Do Daleks even have gender?
They're all voiced by male actors, so even if they don't have a gender in the show they're pretty gendered to audiences. Not to mention the Doctor calls them "boys" sometimes.

I remember reading about a Doctor Who forum where somebody made an OC female Dalek or something and it made this turbonerd really mad because he said Daleks can only be male. And then the first person dug up all this canon evidence as to the Daleks having a sense of gender, etc. that supported the idea of a female Dalek. Sounded pretty funny.

One of marigold's best melodramatic songs tbqh desu
youtube.com/watch?v=Pu4Ms67EvgU

>PLEASE DOWNLOAD MY FILES

Because Cybermen don't need gender at all; they reproduce by converting. The whole point of them is that they force everyone to be identical - it worked a lot better with the Tomb voices that sounded more artificial and alien

user, Cybermen are genderless. "Man" has been used as a gender neutral term for centuries, and this is one of those contexts. Giving different cybermen different voices goes against the whole assimilation 'everyone is identical' thing (except for leaders but that's different reasoning)

>the Cybermen's design would be improved if they weren't all so uniform
But that's the point.
>Cybermen will remove sex and class and colour and creed. You will become identical. You will become like us.

Alright, next time I'll post some links other Big Finish titles. I'd like to have a story discussion thread if peeps are up for it.

>They're all voiced by male actors
This is an incredibly shitty argument. In the world of voice acting, females voice males and males voice females all the time. The whole point of the voice being separate from the character means that the gender of the voice actor is literally irrelevant when it comes to determining the gender of the character.

Tomb voices best voices. I like the ones in Tenth Planet too, but like you I love how artificial the Tomb voices sound.

Put them on MEGA, and I'd consider doing a discussion.

Behold Mr. Too Good For Mediafire! Who's obviously above such peasant links and obviously require the nourishment and comfort of the trusty whole mega.nz.
P.S. Get fucked

Didn't they make them in the studio with a primitive Stephen Hawking-type speech aid device? I always thought they should have more of a medical/prosthetic theme, like you could do the human hands with tubes sticking in, and sock faces but make it slightly bloodstained bandages

And that's why we can't have audio discussion threads, because some edgy user has an autistic outburst and tells people to get fucked just for suggesting something.

Writing is god damn hard.

Have you tried mediafire? It's actually quite a good and fast hoster.

It really is. It's also really time consuming. Especially when you hate everything you write and keep rewriting it over and over.

I would drop this episode honestly.

What the fuck are you talking about. Take your meds.

Keep on writing. Even if you feel it's shit. You'very just started. Most of what I write feels like random doodles when I start.

>inb4 it's still doodles when I finish

As you go along, your subconscious will start filling in more plot. Just keep writing.

Why did you pick Ten, by the way?

Think of somethink new or make likeable characters is impossible. I have no idea how Moffat used to come up with this stuff regularly. God damn.

>he hasn't seen Clerks 2

Hey don't get mad at me because your idea of a deaf, dumb and blind person for a companion is a dumb.

The important thing is you keep at it.

Also as a writing exercise for this thread, pretend you're in charge of season 12 because Chinball shat the bet with Series 11. Give yourself five minutes to come up with the titles to 13 episodes. Be sure to make multi part episodes where necessary. Also include which iteration of the Doctor you feel would be best suited to tackle your season.

1.The Reality Eaters
2. Deadweight
3. The Cask of Varga
4, The Uncoming Tomorrow
5. Round and Round
6. Shared Demise
7. Eye for an Eye
8. Songs of Keska
9. Rumination
10. Daleks in Love
11. The Messiah of the Cybermen
12. The Unforgivable Mistake
13. Death to Doctor

Every single episode is a standalone and due to the way I visualize this season, every single episode is going to seamlessly flow into one another meaning that whatever Doctor I pick has to be able has to have mountains of endurance as well as having the stamina to go for continuous adventures without breaks. n. With that in mind, I think 4, 5, 8, and 10 would be up for the challenge.

>Sounds like you're saying too many female characters would ruin the show, without really having a justified reason for believing it.
Not at all. I'm saying that having too many female characters _for an intentional and obvious bad reason_ would ruin the show.

Just happening to have more female characters one season—that happens all the time, and nobody ever cares, of course. But "going Supergirl" is different. It's blatantly obvious (even if you don't read the interviews) why all the powerful characters in Supergirl are are women while in Arrow, Flash, and Legends they're not.

>Because Cybermen don't need gender at all
It's nothing to do with what they "need". They convert women, so there would be women cybermen. It's as simple as that.

>The whole point of them is that they force everyone to be identical
I can see why some would feel that way, but personally I think the whole point of them is they have no emotion. I think individualistic components to their design, as in different genders/heights/voices/different levels of augmentation, etc., would only add to them, not detract. It would remind us that they're actually people, not identical robots.

>Death to Doctor

wow how original!!

isn't the Doc out of regenerations now

>While we're on the subject, why aren't there female Cybermen? It makes no sense.
Doesn't Miss Hartigan becoming the CyberKing (and more generally the comparison between her and people like Tobias Vaughn) make the point pretty clear?

This is a woman who hypersexualizes everything because she's a victim of sexual abuse (RTD's words), but even she doesn't care about sex and gender anymore once she's Cyberized.

no a thing happened

Drop all references to the frame and the camera. It's not the writers job to describe how a scene is filmed, you're just meant to tell the story.

>It would remind us that they're actually people, not identical robots.
But that's not what cybermen are meant to be

For the transsexual user I was talking to earlier, that boyfriend seemed to have a really deep rape fetish, and/or quasi-cuckolding fetish and possibly enjoyed humiliation as a sexual turn-on. There's nothing "male" about that, and I could understand a woman enjoying the idea of a man in the submissive position (isn't that part of the appeal of pegging?)

And I cannot believe I just wrote the above, in all places, on /who/.

Do a lot of reading. Live a lot. Steal from several sources, and mix them into something new.

But for now, stop worrying about being too original. Much of what we consider "original" is because we don't know the influences from before.

Did they give him some more and punt the issue into the future or just dump the limit thing since it's just an archaic holdover anyway

Lol you're not wrong. I did only have five minutes after all. Wanna give it a shot?

Also post your absolute favorite Doctor. This is a name shame post. Include why you like them, your favorite story, or both!

8th Doctor is my favorite.
Right now my favorite story with him is Night of the Doctor but as I continue to listen to his Big Finish adventures I'm sure that's certain to change. So far he just has all the qualities I'm looking for in an incarnation of the Doctor. He's smart, charming, sociable, quick on his feet, physical when necessary, and most of all merciful. Although this Doctor may not be the most aggressive of his incarnations and his lack of ruthlessness may in fact lead to his demise, I feel this iteration represents all of the Doctor's best qualities

>I can see why some would feel that way, but personally I think the whole point of them is they have no emotion. I think individualistic components to their design, as in different genders/heights/voices/different levels of augmentation, etc., would only add to them, not detract.
Marc Platt once said something pretty similar. They don't _have_ to identical in details that don't matter at all, and those details don't matter at all to them, even if they do to pathetic humans. But it's easier to show "become like us" in a visual medium by showing them as identical than by showing them as not caring about the trivial meaningless differences.

Which does raise the question of why he didn't use that idea in Spare Parts, I suppose…

The first one
Time lords give him more regenerations because they needed him to stay alive. They don't make it clear exactly how many new regenerations he's given

>Did they give him some more and punt the issue into the future or just dump the limit thing since it's just an archaic holdover anyway
They gave him some more. Probably only 13 more, not unlimited, but that's not actually stated, so Moffat left it up to whoever's in charge way down the line to do whatever they want.

>But that's not what cybermen are meant to be
Where are you getting this from? At least explain why you feel this way.

Cybermen are people, or you could say they used to be people. They're whole thing when being introduced in the Tenth Planet was that they were this weird, distorted mirror of humans from Earth's twin planet. The new series interpretation of them as bipedal robot daleks is the most boring use of them possible. Why would you want that?

Mean to say "no shame". People should post their favorite Doctor regardless of public opinion. If it wasn't McGann I'd say it would be the War Doctor. John Hurt brought a degree of wit, ruthlessness, and sarcasm to the role that his predecessors sorely lacked. Also the idea that one iteration of the Doctor had to pull off so many unthinkable acts that it would make murdering the star whale look like a fucking drop in the goddamn pond.

THe War Doctor has seen some shit and subsequently is capable of wrecking shit. He's completely unafraid of using unspeakable weapons of manipulation and destruction as long as he can rationale their use, which he's always able to, and in many cases these decisions come back to bite him in the ass. He is one of the more complicated and layered iterations of all.

>the most boring use of them possible
Reminder that Attack of the Cybermen

They haven't said how many he has now so they're functionally infinite until a new writer decides to limit him again.

I said most boring use of cybermen, not worst Cybermen episodes. Attack of the Cybermen cybermen are still more interesting than stompy-shouty-robot cybermen.

The Atwell Doctor, obviously.

No, seriously, it's a battle between Seventh or Twelfth, with book Eighth as a close second. I love when the Seventh Doctor is mysterious, and how he seems so deep. It may be due to the fact that Curse of Fenric was my first ever classic ep, and how the Seventh Doctor appeared so epic in that story, playing games for the fate of the world.

Book Eight is a close second. When written well, he's less a man, and more a Tiggerish completely alien creature who only looks like a man.

It's not good conduct to write emotions onto characters, the actors will do that themselves.

>Also post your absolute favorite Doctor. This is a name shame post. Include why you like them, your favorite story, or both!
Two. Partly not just for himself, but for the fact that so much of what I like from Four, Seven, Eight, Ten, Eleven, and Twelve comes straight from Two. And having the best companion team of all time (Jamie & Zoe) doesn't hurt. And I would very much like a hat like that one.

Favorite story of his: The Mind Robber, for taking the show in new directions, for having no boring padding, and, I suppose, for not being missing, which has to come up when you're talking about a 60s Doctor.

I do love early Big Finish Eight, but I also love late EDA Eight, and they're barely the same character. I mean, they do both recognizably derive from the TV movie Eight, but they've gone so far in such different directions that it's hard to see them as the same man.

>I love when the Seventh Doctor is mysterious, and how he seems so deep
That really only comes off well in three or maybe four TV stories, and even less often in his Big Finish stories. The NA novels (after the first few) really capture it best.

>It's not good conduct to write emotions onto characters, the actors will do that themselves.
I don't know about that. Obviously don't go into too much detail about the emotion or how it's conveyed but I think whether a character is happy or sad is a pretty important part of a story.

I didn't go into it, but the other reason I like Seven was because my first Who novel was Timewyrm Apocalypse.

>I do love early Big Finish Eight, but I also love late EDA Eight, and they're barely the same character.
Caerdroia. He plays the Tigger Doctor exactly the way he was written in the mid/late EDAs, and he is absolutely believable as the same person as the Eeyore Doctor and the Sensible Doctor.

I don't know if McGann even read the EDAs beyond the first few, but Lloyd Rose knew how to script it in a way he would interpret perfectly.

Who told you to skip the first two books, you lucky bastard? The rest of us had to suffer through John Peel trying to do Uncle Terry with lots of sex added in, and then Uncle Terry trying to do Eric Saward, before we got to read a halfway decent one.

If you could recommend any Big Finish story for 7 which would you recommend?

You've made a solid arguement for 2 and I'll give him a try. Also I am so pumped for witnessing 8's transition from Storm Warning to the current Doom Coalition Series. I'm also stoked for the upcoming McGann Time War Box Set to release which serves as a prequel to the War Doctor Box Sets.

>If you could recommend any Big Finish story for 7 which would you recommend?
Master and The Fearmonger are the best 2 I've heard so far.

>open /who/ thread
>no Hayley Comet posts
we're not trying hard enough, you guys

Congratulations /who/, you have been appointed the position of Chibnall's main advisor and are in charge of deciding the general tone for his era. You can only pick between two options, do you want the Chib era to have:


A. A sort of Bank Holiday Monday feel, the kind of Jules Verne, Edgar Rice Burroughs story of derring-do, which I've always loved.

Or

B. A dry, dignified wit.

Choose wisely!

she's not attractive

Realism is settling in user, I want it to happen but it's really just wildly unlikely and I'm not a fan of how high I'm building my hopes up. Better to cut the hype off now so I'm not bitterly disappointed over something that really won't happen

You're probably right, but I'm going to let myself dream for now.

>open /who/ thread
>people are actually discussing doctor who
>'time to spam some atwell!'

xD
Kill me

Mine's definitely Seven. His whole chessmaster persona is just fascinating - it makes him more mysterious and alien, like you say, but the thing I feel like people miss is it also him more empathetic. He's doing all this ruthless shit - compromising his morals worse than War in some stories - ultimately because he loves people, like that Capaldi line from Deep Breath. "They're never small to me. Don't make assumptions about how far I will go to protect them."

Also he's got some of the best lore - Time's Champion, deals with Death, maybe having killed Six, the Other, the House on Allen Road, Eighth Man Bound, etc - and McCoy is just a charming weirdo who does magic tricks and rolls his Rrrrrrrrrs.

I also have a lot of time for Five. It seems like he's hard to write, but when they get it right (Fear of the Dark for instance) his whole vulnerability and Adric-regret opens up opportunities you can't do with any of the others.

Seconding this. And Night Thoughts.

I read TARDIS Eridutorium for a long time, looking at all the entries for classic Doctors, before I made the jump to watching classics, and so I knew that the first two weren't that good, based on what the commenters said.

Either Genocide Machine for Seven with Ace (plus another called Hex), or Assassination Games for Seven with Ace.

Red is really good, and has great "dark Seven". Mel's the companion, and it gets edgy.

Master has Seven by himself, and that's all I'm gonna say. Don't spoil yourself, just listen.

Colditz has Seven and Ace. Plus, Nazis.

The Fires of Vulcan is a historical with Seven and Mel.

Maybe there's still a chance? I mean, she hasn't announced any new projects since her other show finished wrapped up a month or two ago, maybe there's a possibility that she's got a few projects under consideration.

You say that like discussion mixed with Atwell spam is a bad thing.

>If you could recommend any Big Finish story for 7 which would you recommend?
I realize this isn't to me, but…

The big problem is that McCoy and Aldred forgot how to play the Seven/Ace interaction, even with good scripts, and it took them a long time to get it back.

If you want to get into it long-term, I'd skip ahead to The Harvest, which adds Hex to the mix and improves the dynamic.

For a single story, the NA adaptations or the sidesteps into NA-land, whether solo or with Benny, are much better. Master would be my first pick.

>I'm also stoked for the upcoming McGann Time War Box Set to release which serves as a prequel to the War Doctor Box Sets.
I'm a bit wary of that, just because McGann usually does better when there's not an arc being forced on him. But I'll definitely give it a chance.

I really wish Eight would get some EDA adaptations the way Seven did with NAs. Fitz's Story isn't enough.

Better than foreman desu

who

>Colditz has Seven and Ace.
Don't you mean Seven and McShane?

I was so glad when they dropped that whole thing.

People who call Twelve edgy probably haven't read the Seventh "blow up the planet" Doctor novels.

I'm watching the show Class right now and I gotta say, as an addition to the Whoniverse I'm having a ball.

Also which Doctor do you not understand the love for but would like to still get into. As weird as it is to say I do not get any of the love for 10. I get that he's sociable and charming but what was the thing that set him apart from other iterations? What was that thing that set him apart from the others?

12 is one of the least edgy Doctor's out there. He may have started with a spikey exterior but his travels with Clara quickly softened him to thepoint where I doubt he would be capable of half the crap he did in his earlier life.

I forgot to say, even if you don't like Mel's rather chipper personality, Red uses her cheeriness to good effect, by contrasting her with everyone else in the story.

>I read TARDIS Eridutorium for a long time, looking at all the entries for classic Doctors, before I made the jump to watching classics
Honestly, I probably would have read them all even if I had that resource back then. I just bought whatever made it over to Baltimore, which was fewer and fewer books, and more and more out of order, as the NAs went on.

In fact, a couple years ago I bought a box of most of the NAs, and pirated ebooks of the ones that were missing, so I could do a reread in order, and I still made myself suffer through the first two for reasons I can't explain to myself…

The one that always gets me is in Love and War when he literally tricks Ace's boyfriend into setting himself on fire.

>I forgot to say, even if you don't like Mel's rather chipper personality, Red uses her cheeriness to good effect
You know, after The Juggernauts and Catch-1812, it was kind of hard to remember why I'd ever hated Mel. (Rewatching a couple of the TV episodes solved that, of course…)

...I feel like I answered a post like this a few weeks ago.

Anyway, Ten is the most chummy Doctor. He's the one you'd go have drinks with, and he acts the most human. It's an act, perhaps, but a very convincing one. He acts like he's in the prime of his life, and only when his pain or rage comes through do you see the ancient alien beneath.

This. The time between Doctors is really a magical time because for a short while your imagination can run wild and you can have a shit ton of fun speculating, and really everyone's guess is as good as any because no one knows shit. I say keep dreaming and enjoy it because these moments don't come often, right now Haley Atwell could be 13 and there's no definitive answer otherwise

Twelve doesn't sweat the small emotional stuff, and is somewhat introverted, but he cares deeply. Even in Death in Heaven, you can tell he doesn't want to kill the Cyber Danny, and his eyes almost pleads with Clara to forgive him ("There's no other way.).

Catch 18-12 was kind of dark in implication.

>As weird as it is to say I do not get any of the love for 10
It's really that so many of the things he says and does shouldn't be charming but are, and not in a sociopath way, but in an honestly charming way. Eight and Six can pull that off in the audios, but nobody else really did on TV.

The only problem with him for me is that by series 4 it felt like we knew him so well that there was nothing left for him to do, but he stuck around for another two years doing it anyway, and even Midnight wasn't enough to make up for that. Still, if I go back and watch the better series 2 stories today, he's still great.

What is your favorite Ten episode? Do you know if the Ten comics are worth reading? What is your least favorite incarnation?

And on the topic of 10, I guess the only opinion I had of him was that he was incredibly vain and the only incarnation of the Doctor to waste a regeneration to maintain his form. He was also one of the few incarnations to declare that Time bends to his will rather than he that adheres to the "rules" of the universe.

Also I'm on the 3rd episode of Class and it is fucking horrifying. I'm basically watching an episode that starts the creature from Futurama's Movie, Beast with a Billion Backs

>Catch 18-12 was kind of dark in implication.
Definitely. And how many of companions can you imagine that working with?

That book has one of my favorite Seven scenes: Seven throws away a sword in disgust, after using it, while he's in virtual reality. It showed just how much he hates violence, and actually gives credence to Ten's "I NEVER WOULD" stance with guns.

Hey Immigrant, quick writing question: how do you go about describing stuff? I happened to look over my Shit Trips entry recently, and it's like 80% dialogue with really simple descriptions like "The Doctor walked down the alley" or whatever - I feel like a proper story should paint more of a picture, if that makes sense, or have more third-person.

(Asking because the "make up 13 titles" posts made me realize I've got ideas for more)

Oh, definitely. That and the gun bit in Happiness Patrol.

Seven's the best.

Also why 11 was one of my favorites. All the just as planned story lines.

Dark Water/Death In Heaven was actually pretty good at making them more human compared to the other NuWho episodes. Although I guess that's not saying much since the others didn't even try. Too bad they were mostly in the background and some dumb stuff like the water.

Timewyrm: Exodus was good though. Better than Apocalypse at least. I need to get back to reading the VNAs, but I have so much stuff to read and all I ever do is browse Sup Forums and youtube.

I find 4 and 11 insufferable. 6, 7, and 9 are all much more intriguing and have loads more depth.

My least favorite incarnation is [i]Ten [/i]! Although that doesn't mean I dislike him.

The Tenth Doctor had a hard life. To be fair, I think he only had like canonically 10 years as that face, so it makes sense why he was mad when he died, and why he wanted to keep it for longer. Concerning Time Lord Victorious, that was a bad time, but at least he bounced back. And speaking of Seven, it's the extreme version of 7's thought process.Though, again, he's not my fave. I prefer the more alien Doctors.

Another Class fan! Yep, Night visiting is an underrated horror.

>What is your favorite Ten episode?
Blink. Which is obvious, and also cheating, but I don't care.

>Do you know if the Ten comics are worth reading?
I liked The Forgotten, but the Tenth Doctor Ongoing stories kind of bored me.

>What is your least favorite incarnation?
Before Big Finish, definitely Six.

After Big Finish, it's tough. Three? He's a great character, but the most Doctory parts of him are the least interesting parts of him.

>And on the topic of 10…
Sure, in-universe, Ten is not someone I'd judge highly. But then in-universe, Two often resorted to genocide instead of looking for another solution, Seven thought he was the most important being in the universe, and Eight was an absolute bastard to many people he shouldn't have, and out-of-universe they're three of my favorite characters.

>Also I'm on the 3rd episode of Class and it is fucking horrifying.
Near the end, the heaven/hell pair of episodes is not bad.

>I'm basically watching an episode that starts the creature from Futurama's Movie, Beast with a Billion Backs
Top kek, that never occurred to me but it basically does, doesn't it?

>7 hating violence

He literally talked people into killing themselves. He killed a woman's dog just to make her cry.

He doesn't hate violence. He was disgusted that he had to dirty his hands because that's easy mode.

He's an ancient, bored, sociopath with a penchant for genocide. Guns and swords are inefficient tools for mass murder.

>Timewyrm: Exodus was good though. Better than Apocalypse at least.
I really hope I'm remembering the order right here… Genesys, Exodus, Apocalypse, Revelation, right?

Apocalypse was kind of blah at times, but Exodus had some really painful bits. Maybe it's because I grew up reading Terry's Targets, and seeing him try so hard to be edgy and JNT-era-obsessive disturbed me.

Anyway, I'm sure we can at least agree that Genesys was the worst and Revelation the best, right?

11 is just a slightly quirkier 7. If you can look past Smith's youth, you've got an older, crazier, meaner 7 who puts on a flippant act around whichever humans he happens to be scarring for life today.

>He was disgusted that he had to dirty his hands because that's easy mode.
I saw it more as getting a thrill out of them destroying themselves, in a way that he could claim (to himself, or maybe to Time, not to his companions or authorities or anyone so trivial) was karmically justified and not his fault. The fact that it meant they were dead was almost beside the point.

That is god damn sadistic....story recommendations? Big Finish titles?

>11 is just a slightly quirkier 7
11 is 7 using the same tricks and disguises 2 used to get away with his genocides instead of the ones 7 used.

Hell that was just the tv show. I haven't really checked out any of the audios.

You mean the scene with Danny? I haven't rewatched those episodes yet, I remember them as the worst instance of the cybermen yet. They were given even more powers and there was no reason for them to be cybermen at all. I'm going to rewatch it soon though

>Apocalypse was kind of blah at times, but Exodus had some really painful bits. Maybe it's because I grew up reading Terry's Targets, and seeing him try so hard to be edgy and JNT-era-obsessive disturbed me.
What was edgy about it? I just remember it being a fun little espionage story. Sure there are Nazis and I think they say the word kike at one point but that doesn't make it edgy in itself.
>Anyway, I'm sure we can at least agree that Genesys was the worst and Revelation the best, right?
Yes.