Arrival

What went right
and why was it everything?

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Nothing. Go back. Amy Adams sucks villenueve sucks

why does everyone say that?
I got all ready to watch a bunch of bullshit but the movie was great.
what specifically didn't you like?
wasn't there enough action for you?

>wasn't enough action for you
Nice meme. No the direction was lifeless and the characters sucked.

the characters weren't quite up to scratch but the direction for me seemed interesting,
she was gifted an ability to see time non-linear and that's why she was mourning her child before she was born.
the part about language was pretty cool as well, right?

Whats the deal with recent nonsense Sci Fi movies?
They seem like sci fi when you start watching it, then they go full retard and new age at the end to explain the plot...i Fucking hate it

>Interstellar
>Muh human emotion love somehow interacts with space and time....Fuck you Nolan... fuck you and your hippe bullshit, this is not sci fi

>Arrvial
>Muh language trencendes space and time... wat? makes no sense, fucking hippe/SJW bullshit in my sci fi again... REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>nonsense sci fi

my god you are an imbecile. it's fiction, science fiction, yet you fucking gritty reboot millenial faggots want shit to be grounded in reality and with real world explanations.

I need a more sciency explanation yes, some bullshit i could bu....... i cant buy that emotions somehow interact with space ands time... thats retarded

>they go full retard and new age
That's been around a long time. You could argue that Event Horizon was all that.

This one was a lot less new age than most, it was just sentimental about the 'technology', that's all.

Why would DV think that to show transition of time and scientific progress a commercial-like video is a good idea? I didn't like that.
Also, from what I got, only Amy got the gift from heptapods, the others didn't experience the learning process as she did, which to me was as important as the language. Simply reading symbols from her book is not enough to adopt a way of thinking. Unless the gift really was th unification after all...

It's not science fiction, based on current understanding of physics, for beings to somehow or another perceive spacetime as nonlinear, like the octopods. Maybe if they developed in some really bizarre environment with time distorted by a black hole, or maybe they just evolved into this quasi-godlike beings after thousands of years of evolution.

That part of the movie is gray. Not entirely science fiction or nonfiction, somewhere in between.

The part that was hocus pocus was Louise becoming like them, through an understanding of their language. I don't think--no matter how many times you read Rosetta Stone--you can alter your neuro pathways. But, hey whatever.

The point behind the author's book was just the thought experiment, of how human psychology would be altered if you saw the future like Louise did.
T

I don't know how to use spoiler tags.

Louise writing a heptapod rosetta stone at the end of the movie implies that the "weapon" can be learned through truly immersing yourself in their way of thinking.

yeah I didn't really get why the guy didn't get the gift also

LETS MAKE A BABY

ah, that explains he scene where they are talking about how language can rewire your brain

Because he wasn't a linguist--a special one at that. Louise was implied to be uniquely suited for the language because she understood a linguistic concept, that depending on where you grew up, that determines how your brain thinks. Basically she was open minded and really good at deciphering shit. Jeremy Renner's character was just a mathematician...

>why the guy didn't get the gift also
He was a white male, he basicly just in the movie to be bashed
>Hahaha.. silly white man think he best language man but get btfo by strong womyn
>Then he is milked for his sperm and throw in the trash once she got the baby the future/space squids told her she would have

Also, Ian character should have been better developed. I find his decision in the future, to leave as soon as he finds out about his daughter death unreasonable, to me at least.

Yeah, but I still stand by my own earlier admission, at my skepticism of being able to re-wire your brain. I'm not a neuroscientist, but my understanding is, human brains aren't very malleable. You're kinda stuck with what you were born with, with environmental stuff influencing little afterward. But hey, not an expert. And this is highly contested.

>liking a villenueve movie

you have to go back

I've looked into it a bit before and there is a proven physical difference in brain makeup (neuron pathways and grey matter) with children who learn more than one language at a young age but it only takes place if it happens at a young age, if you learn languages as an adult you use existing pathways... from what I read and understood anyhow

The thought experiment's underlining thesis, or at least, heavily implied implication, is that it would have a calming effect on human psychology, to know future events. Louise accepted her fate like the heptapod that was in death process. You basically become a fatalistic drone in the process, at least that's my cynical take on it. Jeremy Renner's character wasn't implied to learn the language, and he reacted in a very human way to Louise's decision. That's kidna the point. The aliens' way of thinking is enlightened and ascended, and humans are dumb we need to be more like them, to help them out in three thousand years.

I'm a native bilingual and I don't know if it's helped me out much. English and Spanish. The overlap is too great imo. Maybe if someone grew up with English and Mandarin, then that would be something.

>Jeremy Renner's character was just a mathematician
Basically he was a different kind of scientist. Useful but not for this thing.

>he basicly just in the movie to be bashed
I guess they forgot to do that because the only criticism of him in the entire film was that he left her when he found out the truth about her fore-knowledge and the illness. Which wasn't even presented as a criticism of him.

The rest of your post suggests that you've never seen the film, just read Elliot's complaining about it or something?

>I find his decision unreasonable
Louise didn't, she didn't even blame him. I could go either way on it but I wouldn't blame him for it.

>at my skepticism of being able to re-wire your brain
Well language doing it isn't really a thing for anyone except very young children. The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is fascinating but ultimately not really true. It's reasonably well discredited and has been since I studied anthropology decades ago.

>human brains aren't very malleable. You're kinda stuck with what you were born with, with environmental stuff influencing little afterward
More like what you grew up with. In linguistics, you've got about four years before stuff really gets set in, after age four or so, people will usually have trace accents etc that can't be entirely shaken.

The brain is pretty malleable for some things, brain damage can be worked around, other parts of the brain will pick up on functions that used to be done by bits that are destroyed. You can literally train out some visual/cognitive handicaps with sight exercises.

Put it another way, practice doing some manual task until it's reflexive, like blocking a punch or assembling a rifle. Once it becomes an instinctive thing that you could do blindfolded, you've reshaped part of your brain.

>Louise writing a heptapod rosetta stone at the end of the movie implies that the "weapon" can be learned through truly immersing yourself in their way of thinking.
Yeah, I thought that was the point too.

All humanity, or at least the ones interested, will learn the trick.

>The part that was hocus pocus was Louise becoming like them, through an understanding of their language. I don't think--no matter how many times you read Rosetta Stone--you can alter your neuro pathways. But, hey whatever.
Technically, learning /anything/ alters neuro-pathways but that's probably not what you mean. Obviously, the idea of learning a language and suddenly seeing through time is fantasy (sci-fi/fantasy specifically). But there is a kind of interesting idea to it, even if it's probably head canon.

Dawkins talks about an idea called middle world, which is where humans live. We don't see time very quickly like insects can or very slowly like plants do. We have trouble understanding very small things like quarks or very big things like galactic scales. We've evolved to understand the forces and dimensions and scale that we need to survive as a primitive hunter/gatherer on the plains of Africa, it just so happens that we can put our tool use, language and intelligence together and happened to accidentally create civilisation and technology.

Imagine that time isn't really locked in the way that we think it is and the aliens are seeing the 'real' version of time. Now imagine that we didn't need to understand time in this way to survive against the sabretooth tigers and shit, evolution provided 'enough', no more. Maybe human language traps our minds into seeing time in a particular way, ordering events and traveling through them in chronological order because we don't know how to do it any other way. But the aliens give us a language that doesn't have that handicap and when we learn it, enough to think in it, then we're not subject to the same handicaps.

I saw it just yesterday for the first time

Quite ok movie, only thing i didn't like was the illogical first contact, you don't write human on paper, you write something like dots and lines or circles in order to describe prime numbers or helium atom or something universal in all universe. That's how you create "standard language"

>when we learn it, enough to think in it
samefagging here.

The only problem with that idea is that as far as we can tell, humans don't really think in any language. We seem to think just in ideas without words and then express those ideas using language, which is why we can think of things and have trouble putting them into words.

That's kind of the opposite of Sapir-Whorf but that's where we seem to be these days, blame Chomsky, he's responsible for a lot of what we know about the relationship between thought and language.

According to modern theory, it seems like we think in language but the ideas didn't actually use language, we're really doing a second process where we express the ideas in language. It happens quickly enough and naturally enough that we don't necessarily notice it or that that it's a separate step from the thought itself.

>you write something like dots and lines or circles in order to describe prime numbers or helium atom or something universal in all universe
Yeah, that's standard first contact protocol but it was said that another site tried that and the aliens didn't understand/care about it. They could understand very complicated stuff but not the simple things.

Yeah well the aliens fucked up too because they immediately unloaded a ring of black jizz that contained way more information than just a basic number or letter system

Didn't notice it, if that's so than ok, but that's what i didn't like

Yeah, aliens were stupid as fuck also

Just watched it, what the fuck is going to happen in 3000 years?
How will the society with everyone seeing time as a whole work?
is the arrival 2 a possibility?

>Imagine that time isn't really locked in the way that we think it is and the aliens are seeing the 'real' version of time. Now imagine that we didn't need to understand time in this way to survive against the sabretooth tigers and shit, evolution provided 'enough', no more. Maybe human language traps our minds into seeing time in a particular way, ordering events and traveling through them in chronological order because we don't know how to do it any other way. But the aliens give us a language that doesn't have that handicap and when we learn it, enough to think in it, then we're not subject to the same handicaps.

I never got into philosophy. But the implications of this would be a truly deterministic universe, no? I mean, if you have no free will to act out against the future that you see, then you might as well be a character in some writer's manuscript. If in that universe, it's possible to act against the future, and re-write it, then that would be very, much more, interesting indeed.

Arrival is prequel to Prometheus

>If in that universe, it's possible to act against the future, and re-write it, then that would be very, much more, interesting indeed.

There are two instances in the movie of using fore-knowledge to change the past/future.

The first is that the aliens actually bother coming to do all this in the first place, so obviously they think it's worth the effort.

The second is the phone call near the end, that: uses future knowledge that is used in the past to change the future, so obviously, it's not 100% deterministic.

The take I had on it was that time was like a path of least resistance. You could fight against fate if you wanted to, otherwise it was going to happen the way that you knew it would.

Remember that Louise simultaneously knew That she hadn't made any phonecall and That she made a phone call. Those two scenes showed the moments where the future changed.

>Just watched it, what the fuck is going to happen in 3000 years?
Who knows? Maybe time-blind humanity are just really shitty neighbours and the aliens want us to be able to see the consequence of fucking with them so that they don't have to actually punish us for it?

If I could go back in time, there might be a few adults that I'd go back and give a hug to so that they weren't such shits now.

Use your imagination. Maybe a Mass Effect type Reaper invasion-- some galactic war. Maybe something quite boring, like just establishing trade relations (thinking of Star Wars I).

>How will the society with everyone seeing time as a whole work?

Realistically, great social upheaval. Pandemonium worst case scenario. Entire countries and professions turned upside down. It would be the biggest mindfuck to the human species. But you would have to spend weeks/months trying to see the future. So the human race would have to grapple with the question: do we all want to collectively open this pandora's box? I'm sure some people will refuse the future seeing, like how Amish people refuse modern integration. The aliens expect, though, we will eventually, maybe over hundreds of years, become enlightened and have that Louise 'I don't give a fuck' attitude.

Why did the aliens want to give humans their circle future language anyway? And why do they disintegrate in the end?

>Why did the aliens want to give humans their circle future language anyway

The alien said they will ned human's help 3000 years from now, that's why they ave them this "weapon". The nature of this help wasn't explained, that's why I want a sequel so fucking bad

>that Louise 'I don't give a fuck' attitude
I think it's more like: "It's worth it"

>Why did the aliens want to give humans their circle future language anyway?
Because they wanted our help in the future, or that's what they said anyway. Could be that they wanted to shape us into something too.
See: and >And why do they disintegrate in the end?
That was just them leaving. Job done.

leave this board you triggered sjw faggot.

Any good SF movies in 2016/2015? No capeshit pls

Guardians of the Galaxy 2

Can't think of anything. Good Sci-Fi movies are few and far in between. A film like Arrival is like a once or twice a decade treat.

Dunno, sometimes i totally enjoy objectively flawed movies like edge of tomorrow and sometimes i really dislike sf blockbusters like interstellar

dropped this shit right after the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis

everything they tried to do failed, it was flawed from the very beginning

>I DON'T FIND THIS PART OF THE NARRATIVE REALISTIC OR PLAUSIBLE SO IT MUST BE SHIT

Everytime the same shit "dicussion".
Reminder that film is a visual medium and if you base your whole opinion just on the literal plot points then you are in fact a first class supreme plebeian

>everything they tried to do failed

Tell me how did they fail in framing and composition, editing, production design, soundtrack and sound design please

why the fuck does she decide to have a kid knowing it's going to get cancer

She already loved her daughter (just like her daughter loved her) and she thought that the moments they had together are worth living for.
Renner is more of a rational man so he thought that was a bad choice so he left her.
Every action makes sense in terms of their character traits.

And do you think that parents of kids with cancer wish they never lived in the first place?

Selfishness and supreme individualism of the Western culture

soundtrack? who gives a fuck when im asleep with this dull ass plot. the pacing is atrocious

If u want tech porn, open up a car manual or watch some gay trek.

Dude, wasn't the movie only like 90 mins long? How do you sit through 2-3 hour movies? Also, the book the movie this was based on, reads like a diary.

>And do you think that parents of kids with cancer wish they never lived in the first place?
i'm sure when gene editing and shit comes out and people know in advance if their would-be offspring are going to have life-ending illnesses that everyone will just let nature take its course :)

You said that "everything they tried to do failed", give me one argument of how did they fail in any of these elements I listed

Also
>dull ass plot

Not an argument.

i'm not making an argument. this is declarative. the movie is dull. it's another in a long line of second-rate sci fi. i don't know when this became a thing but it's got to stop.

Well it isn't possible yet and it isn't possible in the movie too.
Also in your situation the parents don't know their child yet, while Amy Adams character is already deeply connected to her and choosing not to have a baby at that time would mean erasing her daughter from existence and the moments they had together.

what you retards seem to forget is that she saw the life her daughter had and it was a good life. up until the cancer that is the kid had a great fucking life... everybody dies, but you have to be alive for that to happen

Checked.
Time is structured in a certain way. Non linear perception of time is not time travelling, she couldn't have changed it. She has a daughter in the future. Daughter dies from cancer in the future...
To put it better, she wouldn't have changed that. When you perceive time in such way, you also understand the concept of fate in a different way.
That's a different example. Parents of the unborn children, don't have the same connection as the parents of the kids that die early, with their kids. Louise had already experienced good moments with her daughter, so the decision is not the same.

it would also mean sparing her daughter the suffering of dying of cancer in prepubescence, which i'm sure we can agree ethically trumps bringing the sentimental feelings she has for her theoretical future daughter to fruition.

Would you still say that Louise's decision to have like 10 good years with the daughter, and whatever time she had with Ian, was worth it? She basically chose a future where she would have bliss for a very calculated amount of time and then endure the ultimate grief, RATHER than roll the dice, and maybe get nothing but bad break-ups/unfulfilling partners/loneliness.

>entire movie dedicated to learning and communication between humans and aliens

>in the end she just learns the language through space magic and all her work was for nothing

>she couldn't have changed it
>retcons the course of time from the future with the 'weapon' that aliens traveled to give her, aliens that are also trying to change what is going to happen 3000 years in the future by forming an alliance with humanity
really makes u think. *gives it 10 stars on imdb*

and what about the grievance of the dad who separates from her after learning that she knew? i understand that you neets know that nobody will care when you die, but we didn't see the kid shitposting on Sup Forums, so we have to assume she's normal.

Not space magic, she learned it "from future"

>im a returd

The Sup Forums contrarianism is out in full force with this film- even worse than Avatar and Interstellar, and that's saying something.

ngl, a lot of "criticism" about Arrival is written in a reddit-style condescending tone. Maybe that says something about these posters?

Arrival was fucking space kino, perhaps flawed but great

you need to be able to understand the language before you can see the future, how did she see the future without having learned the language?

You retards in every one of these threads have to be shitposting.

She didn't learn it through space magic. She just learned it. That was it. The movie was a simply philosophical question, about what would you do with the knowledge gained from seeing the future? We saw Louise's decision.

You need to be 18 to access this website, you insufferable moron.

and her deicison was pants on head retarded

>this 1/12th of the language required to see through time will take us years to decipher

>never mind, i'm just going to go into the magic alien fog.

We all die anyway you fucking ignorant retard, why not have the kid and enjoy your life together, however brief it may be?

>he doesn't understand the difference between science fiction and straight up fantasy

>you neets

what about the father? he ditched the kid. he wasn't even there. he put himself, what he felt above his kid life.

>hurr durr i'm going to lose my kid at a young age, better see her only on weekends

>Guardians of the Galaxy 2
That's 2017. user wanted the recent past.

>i totally enjoy objectively flawed movies like edge of tomorrow
Read the book, it's short and takes an hour or two but it's good. Also, like any Tom Cruise butchery, totally different to the movie with only the basic premise unchanged.

>Well it isn't possible yet
For a very small number of conditions, it's possible to fix them in an egg/sperm and then do IVF with the result. Huntington's is one. It's complicated and expensive and we can only do it for a handful of genetic diseases. Doesn't change your point but I thought I'd mention it.

Most cancer isn't one of those conditions. They're usually clusters of genes that interact with environmental influences and they're all different anyway.

>Non linear perception of time is not time travelling, she couldn't have changed it
It's clear that information can travel and that we can change future events based on that information, see So she could have changed it if she wanted to, she just didn't want to because of: and

Smartphones, cars and planes would seem like magic to medieval peasants. Why can't you suspend your disbelief in an attempt to appreciate what a far more advanced being could look like

Honestly, go back to fucking reddit. Fuck you.

That's your opinion.
That was just done for suspense. The aliens could've just dropped off a Rosetta Stone with an English translation of their language. It wouldn't have made for an interesting film. The point was to highlight the tension and rash nature of humankind, before sending a message of kumbaya and unity, by accepting 'the universal language'.

>how did she see the future without having learned the language?
Part of it was a flash back but really, the visions/future memory started when she started learning the language.

>That was just done for suspense.

It invalidated the entire movie.

I think some of you may appreciate this
youtube.com/watch?v=igZi4iyJiq0

he leaves when he learns she's going to die, because he's heartbroken.
only weapon in this movie is the fucking weaponized autism

If I remember correctly, the aliens basically grew impatient and knew they had to light a fire under the collective human ass because they only get shit done under conflict. Just look at the 20th century, where did most of the progress come from? Well anyway, Louise started to scramble to put it together and start asking the right questions.

Your critique is borderline autistic.

Nah I think it in different way. Aliens don't try to change the future. They just do what has to be done so future is the same. They don't say they got destructed in the first place and then decided to go back and change that. That's time travelling. They just say they will need help. And they get help. It's just like the scene with the general. Though he doesn't fully understand what happens, he plays his part and gives her all the information so time in all of its course will remain the same. There is no time travelling in this, yet changing events rather than perceiving them is what you keep thinking.
>IMDB joke
I prefer you criticize my theory on the fact I base it on a book by Vonnegut I have read that has little to nothing to do with science fiction than the assumption I browse a site I don't, memer

the aliens could see the future, they knew everything that was going to happen, so why didn't they just 'light the fire' right away? The last 10 minutes of this movie turned it from a realistic look at how an alien contact would go into throwing it all out for the sake of a bad emotional payoff.

>he's heartbroken.

is he a faggot?
of course, he is a scientist after all.


>autism

you got that right

>grief and heartbreak are for faggots
You have difficulty understanding humans don't you.

It is the consensus that they can see the future, but it is not set in stone. It can fork in different times. For all we know, it started to fork, when humans were making no significant progress. Maybe they saw a fork where Louise is the 'a-ha' character or the 'chosen one' who can make the translation of the universal language. So they bring in to give her one final nudge: "that shit you've been seeing? Yeah, that's our gift. There now go make your book. K thanks bai". That would be the in-universe justification. That was simply the order that events had to unfold in that particular first contact. But if you refer back to my earlier point, they also made for a dramatic series events, which was needed to make the movie suspenseful,, for wait, here it comes: human audiences!

the only thing that was jarringly bad about this movie was the plot devices to speed it up.

>shot of the TV
>the whole world is pissed about this guys! the aliens are up there doing nothing, but we're all about to go to war
>whole bunch of millitary rash military dudes with guns to remind you that humanity is upset
>we have to hurry humans are getting mad at the aliens!!!!

if the movie actually showed the societal unrest that would result in UFOs hovering over the globe then it would've made the urgency of learning the language more of an acceptable plot point. But all you ever see is shitty news about angry china and people buying water.

In my opinion the entire conflict of this movie felt really shallow because of this.

>i love my daughter so i'm not going to see her all the time.

yeah humans are fucking retards

So why not just send one UFO to america if they knew louise was the chosen one? why not send one directly above her house and abduct her?

>They just do what has to be done so future is the same
...so that the future is what? what????
>They just say they will need help. And they get help
? ??? rewind a bit.
>aliens see that 3000 years (or whenever) in the future they will face some peril
>decide to seek out humanity's help in order to offset or prevent this peril
>give humanity the ability to see the future, which is the definitive means by which humanity will help the aliens, using their knowledge of what will happen
>somehow nobody is trying to alter the future in all of this
>nah there's no time travel so it makes sense
img

i did get it right. it's ok to be special, friend.

also fuck this verification expiring shit

Same reason Abott waits until the last possible micro-milli-second to use a Force push to knock everyone out of the ship, away from the bombs, and dies because of this, despite technically knowing this is the scenario where he dies.

Gaping plotholes and poor writing.

Who would read her book about some ayylmao language then?
How would the humanity the humanity help them in 3000 years then?

"working together" is a big part of the movie and it wouldn't work otherwise

...

>despite technically knowing this is the scenario where he dies.
They can't change the actions, they are just aware of them.

Here's an excerpt from an interview with Villeneuve to maybe clear things up for you:
>"The idea is that the heptapods see life like a [scripted] play. They know what will happen, so they have the choice — either they do it bored to death, or they embrace it and try to be at their best, like an actor on a stage."

She wasn't. That's a fucking retarded thing to assume.

She was a lonely person who didn't get on with her mother, her father is presumably dead as the phone call between the two had no mention of him, and she was quick to end the call. She worked a job which she liked in principal, but if you noticed, all the students had their phones on, and their rings on loud, which implies they're shitty students.

Much like the language, the film is showing you the meaning at a non-linear phase.

Her disorientation is due to her weird as fuck dreams, hence asking the Alien, "Who is this child?"
It's like you weren't even watching the film.

This. I know it's fiction but why does it have to be pandering the keins who give a shit about science?

I just want some realistic, good science movies. Are there any except 2001?

Europa report

That shit was so bad. The story was good and it definitely was more realistic than the mainstream ones, but holy shit that budget and acting. It looked like it was acted and filmed by some students with their $500 video camera.

a big fucking UFO, and a revolutionary alien language would make people read her book and make people work together.