Why the FUCK can't he win shit with his NT?

Why the FUCK can't he win shit with his NT?
>muh piguian
>muh di maria
>muh gago
Reminder that GOATnaldo brought these scrubs to La Liga and CL title glory

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If it wasn't for Dimaria and Bale, Ronaldo would have one CL less, Higuain blew it against Lyon and lmao at Gago, also who gives a single fuck about who wins La Liga?

You now remember that Cristano has unironically only won La Liga twice in 8 years

Why haven't you killed yourself, you retarded maplenigger leaf?

true, but he did win 3 titles with man utd in a row
>who gives a single fuck about who wins La Liga?
idk maybe like half of spain?
Not an argument

Please try to keep posts on topic. We all know Ronaldo has won every competition he's been in. This is about Messi's national shortcomings

>Reminder that GOATnaldo brought these scrubs to La Liga and CL title glory
Higuain and Gago didn't won the CL.

That's not my problem

It's not, it was your argument.

Still took them to a title with a record 100 points. Please stop ignoring tidbits of info that you don't like. Now please tell me, why can't Messi perform with Argentina?

because he's a choker and Iniesta alone can't save that wreck of a midfield Barcelona has had for about 2 years. He can only score against decent opposition if he's given clear-cut chances and that doesn't happen often, he doesn't have prime Xaviniesta to bail him out anymore

I never said you were wrong, I was just correcting a misconception you had so your argument doesn't sound retarded.

Argentina is overly in awe of their messiah. Their "passion" and "emotion" are a massive problem for any manager trying to do a good job for the NT. The team should be more important than any individual. They should function much more as aunit, rest and not play messi when it's appropriate too, but with all the "love" for him and frankly obsession by the normies, no coach can do a good job for the NT unless he has absolute balls of steel. Frankly, only Simeone could manage it right now..

Thank you for the well thought out and informative response. I too agree that the Argentine FA relies too heavily on Messi. The fact Messi gets a first hand pick at who gets to join 'his' team and who gets to run it only exemplifies this. Argentina has a large talent pool with combination of both youth and experience with players that know how to win titles. Whether or not certain areas of the team are weaker than others is not ultimately Messi's fault; he should know from his career how to patch things up or even help out in build up play. That being said, the Argentina NT is still a powerhouse that needs refinement. Whether or not they can make the required fixes before the World Cup is yet to be tested.

> only Simeone could manage it right now
oh...

To add onto your statement, Messi's appointment as captain places himself as the leader of the team. He is now in more control over the team by simply being on the pitch. If your leader chooses to retire after a botched penalty attempt, this makes me doubt not only Messi's leadership qualities, but Sampaoli's decision making. This now places more questionablility in the Argentine FA and how it is being run.

bump

I think you'll find that, like most of modern football, the dramatic stories, the hype, the general fan interest is more important to those in charge than the actually sporting success. Sure they want to win the WC but if it means getting into an ugly power struggle with Messi and him actually quitting international football, they would experience a massive drop in viewing figurs, fan interest, etc. i.e. revenue, which matters most for all of the clubs and NTs. In Germany there is discussion over coaching decisions, but at the end of the day, its the coaches choice and noone is above him in the decision making. Evene established fan favourites like Müller can be dropped whenever they are not fitting into team requirements. In south america, some mafia gang might just murder you for making an unpopular decision..

Although this may be true, Messi's inconsistency and lack of performances in bigger matchups is his bigger problem. While he may a top scorer during friendlies (when his team appears to play at their best), his lacklusters recent performances against Bolivia and Peru leave much to be desired. Although his most recent game against Ecuador provided a most crucial win with a clutch performance, his 3 most recent finals appearances achieved nothing of this standard. It can be said that the team sans Messi played very well into the ourney to these finals, with Messi's untimely manner of disappearing in these games. And although his World Cup 2014 performances in the group stage were second to none, he was nowhere to be found in the latter stages of the competition, whereareas players as Mascherano and Di Maria were crucial in the Argentina games. It is Messi's job, whether he likes it or not, to step up more consistently in key games. His inconsistency may be said to be his greatest downfall with the national team.

>He can only score against decent opposition if he's given clear-cut chances and that doesn't happen often, he doesn't have prime Xaviniesta to bail him out anymore
Wow.... 47 goals last season, 15 goals this season with 5 assists so far....... clearly struggling....

We're discussing his national team performances.

Because winning a WC is too fucking difficult, you don't only need a great team but a bit of luck. Since he's from South America it's hard to have a competitive NT, European teams like England, Germany or Spain have all the players playing in the same league so it's easy to have them together to do some trainings, South American managers just don't have that option

For Copa America, the 2011 was a shitfest with all the players hating each other and the last 2 that lost to Chile we got blatantly refballed

It isn't easy to win titles with some team you barely see 3 or 4 times a year. The big 4 (Messi, Agüero, di María and Higuaín) only played 10 games together in all history (won 8 and 2 draws, no loses) and could never be available to play a final. The rest of our team is mediocre at best, we've unironically used Romero (not saying he's bad for us, he actually never has to touch the ball, our defense is solid) for over a decade and he's a benchwarmer, the midfield and defense is full of literally whos and benchwarmers too, when some guy up front gets injured our subs are memes like Palacio or Papu Gómez

People seem to overrate us and think we are a disaster if we don't win a title, while on paper we aren't even top 10

because argentina's strategy consists of: let's give the ball to messi and let him figure it out
not even the GOAT can win matches when he's constantly got at least two defenders breathing down his neck

>Please try to keep posts on topic. We all know Ronaldo has won every competition he's been in

Except the WC, and he wasn't even on the pitch for the euro win. He's a fraud who's been bailed out in every major final he's won up until this year.

>European teams like England, Germany or Spain have all the players playing in the same league so it's easy to have them together to do some trainings, South American managers just don't have that option
Admittedly I hadn't taken that into consideration. The top teams of the Copa America (ex. Brazil, Uruguay) too do not have the option of many homegrown players, the upper echelon of them playing for top teams. This in a way levels out the playing field.
This as well does not rule out Messi's lack of performance in tournament finals.
>wasn't even on the pitch for the euro win
Lad, please use your head. Ronaldo was involved in 6 of his teams' 9 goals (3 goals, 3 assists). In the final, it took Portugal 110 minutes to score, and they didn't even manage to achieve a shot on target for 80 minutes. Ronaldo was their top scorer and missing him clearly affected their performance.

>Admittedly I hadn't taken that into consideration. The top teams of the Copa America (ex. Brazil, Uruguay) too do not have the option of many homegrown players, the upper echelon of them playing for top teams. This in a way levels out the playing field.
>This as well does not rule out Messi's lack of performance in tournament finals.
But we did better than both Brazil and Uruguay in all those tournaments

I'm trying to not say "a fucking leaf" but if you keep being smug without knowing shit about the sport I'll have to do it

It's literally this one cucknadian that goes into messi vs Ronaldo threads and sucks Ronaldos dick to no end. Probably a Muslim trudeau let in

>manlet
>winning anything

>But we did better than both Brazil and Uruguay in all those tournaments
It comes down to subjective opinion. Brazil brandished a new style of football away from Joga Bonito and it seemed to work out very well for them until the semis. Whereareas Argentina scrapped 1-0 wins against Switzerland and Belgium, and then a win on penalties against Netherlands. Again with minimal Messi impact.
If you and the American must resort to flag posting then I am powerless to stop you, but keep in mind that your opinion will be discarded.

Which big name had a great 2014 WC? Ronaldo didn't even get past the groups stage, same for Iniesta. Nerman got injured against Colombia, Cavani and Suárez were irrelevant. Lewandowski? Gerrard? Some Italian guy?

You sound like a turbo pleb who started watching the sport 3 years ago, you are rating a player over a 7 games tournament. By your logic Götze is better than Messi

James, Navas, Neymar are some names that come into mind.
If you feel that I am acting smug then I apologize, but if my answers conflict with your retroactive views then you are free to post elsewhere. If I said anything wrong then please correct me.

James and Navas weren't famous before the WC, they moved to big clubs righ after that cup, Neymar didn't have a good cup and he god injured around the middle of the competition

Are you pretending to be retarded? You talk like you want to teach me about football when you obviously don't know shit. If you want to learn start by not correcting other people

Just for the record, I'm not saying Messi had a good WC either. I'm just saying lot of good players didn't, because the WC is irrelevant to measure a player's quality

Cristiano is elite and would never say he's shit because he got out of the WC in the groups stage

Seriously guys, why can't Messi perform in NT as good as Goatnaldo?

But he scored 2 goals against Hungary in the group stage euros xD

James WAS a big name before the world cup, he moved to Monaco for 45 million after dominating with Porto.
And Navas had an amazing season with Levante in 2013-14, being named the top keeper in the league.
Seriously, these players don't just get called up for being mediocre.

Not saying they were bad, Real Madrid aren't retarded. They didn't buy a player just because of 2 games, but you gotta accept the WC hype helped them

Pic is the ideal team of 2013, almost none of them were good in the WC

Messi hasn't scored against any of these teams either (minus Chile), in a game that wasn't a friendly. Also Ronaldo hasn't even played against half of those teams since he was a classic winger.

I dunno, but CR still won an International Trophy in 2 tries. All this with a switzerland tier team around him.

>CR still won
No, his team won it for him

He was literally in the bench when Portugal scored the winning goal

Ronaldo was involved in 6 of his teams' 9 goals (3 goals, 3 assists). In the final, it took Portugal 110 minutes to score, and they didn't even manage to achieve a shot on target for 80 minutes. Ronaldo was their top scorer and missing him clearly affected their performance.

Messi was involved in all goals but one in the last WC, so? Again, interntaional games are irrelevant to measure a player's quality

> No, his team won it for him
I clearly saw a moth transforming CR7 into our de facto coach.
Did you not pay attention?

>interntaional games are irrelevant to measure a player's quality
So you're telling me, that if Messi or Ronaldo were to carry their team to a World Cup win, while being involved in all their goals, it would have absolutely no effect on their legacy? Would you really be saying this if Messi had his coveted international title and Ronaldo had not?

Because one is a WC and the other a continental cup, not the same, not even close

The legacy would have been better, but Messi isn't a better or a worse player because Higuaín missed a goal

>Messi hasn't scored against any of these teams either (minus Chile)

That's still more than Ronaldo

>Also Ronaldo hasn't even played against half of those teams since he was a classic winger.

"i-it doesn't count since it when he was a winger"

m8 if you think Messi underperforms in NT, at least apply same criteria to Ronaldo and figure out he's not any better at all. And spare me the Euro trophy bullshit he watched from the sidelines.

>Euro trophy bullshit he watched from the sidelines.
You already know pretty well I won't. He was much more of a factor in his Euro campaign than Messi was in his Copa endeavor

>He was much more of a factor in his Euro campaign than Messi was in his Copa endeavor

3 goals 1 assist in 7 games > 5 goals 4 assists in 6 games? Come on m8

m8, if you're going to ignore Ronaldo's Euro win so you can point out his scoring record against some arbitrary teams that he hasn't faced in half a decade, then you clearly don't have an argument
>3 goals 1 assist in 7 games
Please get your statistics correct

>m8, if you're going to ignore Ronaldo's Euro win so you can point out his scoring record against some arbitrary teams that he hasn't faced in half a decade, then you clearly don't have an argument
Why would I take as an argument of him being a better NT performer, since he didn't even play in the final game?

If Messi limped off at 15 mins vs Chile, and Argentina managed to fluke a goal in OT, would you rate his tournament performance more? That's a joke argument m8.

>Please get your statistics correct
Correct me then m9. He had 3g+2a in 7 games?

>Correct me then m9. He had 3g+2a in 7 games?
3 goals, 3 assists. Since I claimed he did more in the final than Messi than I'll count it in 7 games.
>Why would I take as an argument of him being a better NT performer, since he didn't even play in the final game?
Again I reiterate, Ronaldo was involved in 6/9 of his teams' goals. They did not have a shot on target until the 80th minute. They did not score until 110' in. Clerly they missed Ronaldo.
Meanwhile in the copa America Centenario, Messi was involved in 10/18 of his teams' goals. Based on these numbers, who would you say was more important to their team? Keep in mind Messi's penalty miss.

>the bosnian messifag is at it again

Shame it comes down to numbers crunching with these people. I should have a top tier job with ESPN. All they have to do is turn on their TV and we wouldn't have these discussions.

>assblasted leaf cant accept that messi is better

youtube.com/watch?v=9RgJ77BaZnY

WOW!!! he scored vs probably one of the worst teams sweden has ever had!!!

>3 goals, 3 assists.

Did you unironically count that missed shot vs Croatia as an assist? :D

>They did not score until 110' in. Clerly they missed Ronaldo.

No. They played a patient cautious game, as most teams do in the final game and ultimately reached their fruition through Eder goal.

>Meanwhile in the copa America Centenario, Messi was involved in 10/18 of his teams' goals. Based on these numbers, who would you say was more important to their team? Keep in mind Messi's penalty miss.

Messi for Argentina. Porgual won the tournament final against a superior side WITHOUT Ronaldo.

I ask you again, if Messi limped off at 15 mins and Argentina fluked a goal in OT, would you rate his tournament performance greater? You should, based on your own idiotic reasoning.

How do I filer Canadian posts ?

I swear this leaf is worse than the retard Romanian that was shitposting during the summer

to be fair Sweden's best team ever wouldn't be much better than the one TSU scored against and also Portugal was (is) just as shitty

>no this doesn't count because I said so
C'mon at least try next time.
Somewhere in the options I think, maybe you need 4chanX.

i wouldnt say that, recently sweden managed to win against france (even if it was through a fluke goal).
and historically sweden have botha a WC bronze and a WC silver

Messi carries a sub-par team that has something around a 26% win rate without him. Ronaldo's team can win a trophy with him standing on the sideline.

>C'mon at least try next time.

You are avoiding to answer my questions, Trevor. Why is that? :-) Let me try again:

Did you unironically count that missed shot vs Croatia as an assist?

If Messi limped off at 15 mins and Argentina fluked a goal in OT, would you rate his tournament performance greater?

>Did you unironically count that missed shot vs Croatia as an assist?
No, I took official UEFA statistics. No idea why you would count a missed shot. Maybe you're trying to embarrass me, but I don't understand why you thought that would work.
>If Messi limped off at 15 mins and Argentina fluked a goal in OT, would you rate his tournament performance greater?
No because Ronaldo's team contributions were were greater then Messi's. Argentina had no trouble scoring until they came up against Chile, and suddenly Messi did too.
Are you done shitposting so I can avoid you now?

well Portugal also won against France, that doesn't mean Sweden or Portugal aren't shit, it's just that the french, or should I say africans, are a bunch of chokers despite having a theoretically great team, much like Argentina.

>and historically sweden have botha a WC bronze and a WC silver
that doesn't really mean anything, though

>No idea why you would count a missed shot.

Because it was a shot on goal (not an attempt to pass the ball) that the keeper saved and it landed on Quaresma's foot. It's not an assist by any assist definition you can dig.

>No because Ronaldo's team contributions were were greater then Messi's.
Nope. In KOs 2/5 goals scored/assisted in the contrast of Messi's 6/8. Again, the same question emerges: how would you rate him if he limped off and Argentina fluked a goal for win?

>Argentina had no trouble scoring until they came up against Chile
Yes, because Messi was single handedly making it happen. When they crowded him in the final, so did they disappear.

Let's take a look at this WC qualifying cycle:

>Argentina without Messi: 8 games, 6 points (out of 24 possible)
>Argentina with Messi: 10 games, 22 points (out of possible 30)

Jokes aside, how can anyone in their sane mind imply he doesn't perform in his NT?

Daily reminder the manlet scored a header in the cl final against CR7 Man u

>implying based papu dance won't lead you to the WC

>messi scoring a header is cause for celebration
It was crossed in from Xavi btw

>muh piguian
>muh di maria
>muh gago
>La Liga and CL title glory
mmm no sweetie...

>Why the FUCK can't he win shit with his NT?

Cristiano Ronaldo vs France HD 1080i (EURO 2016 FINAL)

youtube.com/watch?v=Qd82YFfAXYI

#RESPECT #MOTHLIVESMATTER

#GOATSI PLEASE COME TO ANTALYASPOR
>youtube.com/watch?v=tW3GdF9U5DU

he truly is the best player ever

there's a reason why they call him 'pecho frio', 'chest chest', 'pulga' (because hes annoying and not much else)

>ronaldo free kicks purposefully blasted at lahm
1
>messi free kicks purposefully blasted at lahm
0
hmmmmmmmmmm

the main difference is Ronaldo is lucky
when he doesn't do shit (which is 90% of the time), there are other players that bail him out. And it's not even inconsistent, he's consistently lucky.
Bale, Di Maria, Scholes, Rooney, Ramos, Eder, Sanches, and even Quaresma have saved him through the years from elimination.

>the main difference is Ronaldo is lucky
>when he doesn't do shit (which is 90% of the time)
So that's why in addition to multiple EPL and La Liga, and Champion's League scoring records, he also holds the record for the most assists in the CL. He doesn't do anything. Sure.

what about when iniesta bailed out messi in 09?

>one gets to a world cup final
>the other is eliminated in group stage

is euro supposed to be impressive?
>iceland
>hungary
>austria
>croatia
>poland
>the mighty wales

then didn't play the final against the first elite team

How 'lucky' is it that Messi gets to play a once every 4 year tournament in back to back years ad still fail to accomplish a win.
>beats ecuador for the first time in 11 years
How is that supposed to be impressive?

did messi really say that? it is deep as fuck and rattles my bones.

>La Liga
Ronaldo is worse than Messi in La Liga, both in overall stats (even per game, season's bests, etc) and wins

>per game
Actually he's not. He has >1.00 goals per game average
Also he has the most consistent clasico scoring run.

>Argentina have not won at the Quito, which stands 2,782 meters above sea level, since 2001

check your math.

>air pressure determines skill level

youtu.be/A8x73UW8Hjk?t=1m58s

It's because he's shit. Ronaldo makes other players better by his general play, Messi just leeches off their exertions.

Reminder piguain has more la liga titles than Cristiano even though Cristiano has been there for nearly a decade

So by that logic, Higuain is a better player than cristiano and yet Messi has won nothing with him.
ok

Holy shit a leaf. Messi did there what ronaldo makes 95% of the time, being a tap in merchant. At least be consistent in your shitposting

Messi is probably the best player of all time, but he sure will not be the greatest.
His teamates fuck him up too, to be fair.
youtu.be/El0V22LEcPs

Maradona won World Cups for Argentina with way worse teammates, just saying.

those "way worse teammates" scored in the final to give Maradona the world cup

macacao BTFO

macacão is a type of clothing

They still are way worse. Unless you want to pretend that poor Messi is playing on a NT equivalent to Bolivia or Romania.

>
You gotta be kidding por baiting with that shit. Portugal literally beat a superior french teeam without him, after passing in third place drawing with 3 meme teams with ronnie in the field

wew

yes, i believe so. this fucking leaf been everywhere. maybe need to perform exorcist to remove ronaldo ghost dick from his ass.

ohh you should, but you wont and you cant and will never be i wonder why. gee