Humans are irrational and temperamental creatures

>humans are irrational and temperamental creatures
>aliens give them more power beyond imagining

What the fuck?

The entire movie was retarded

They see the future, but allow themselves to get exploded, but also react by moving away when humanity gets violent, but they knew it'd happen, they know what will happen, what is the fucking point

If they can see the future why can't they just see how to understand us the exact same way the stupid bitch does it with the chink?

So stupid. I didn't mind the movie as I watched it but the more I think about it the more fucking stupid it was.

It's like, you know whats going to happen but you are powerless to stop it. Amy didn't have free will so why would the aliens?

She could just not have the baby in the first place.

Also, do all humans now have her ability since she released a book teaching the alien language? If so why didn't Jeremy Renner also see his daughter's death?

Because they already knew the future, dumbass. If something bad happened they wouldn't have done it, or maybe they had no choice at all.

The aliens only cared about their own survival, they didn't care if the average person just got better at killing another.

I'm not entirely sure how the foresight works, but what the movie made quite clear is that she had no real choice about the baby. She herself realized the non-existence of free will. She knew she would have the baby, knew about her death and knew she would tell hawkeye about it.

>Also, do all humans now have her ability since she released a book teaching the alien language? If so why didn't Jeremy Renner also see his daughter's death?
Just read this out loud ten times and ask again.

>Just read this out loud ten times and ask again.

??

When did she write the book? After her daughter's death? I'm assuming it was immediately after the aliens left which meant that they were still a couple.

>Amy didn't have free will so why would the aliens?

Why the fuck do you retards say this? The whole movie, the whole fucking thing is about free choice.

What would happen if the Aliens did absolutely nothing, you know, sat on their hands? in a scenario where they take action, there is ALWAYS< ALWAYS the other option, of pure nothingness, doing nothing. They had the choice to do nothing, to simply die off like they saw would happen 3000 years in he future.

THEY CHOSE TO COME TO EARTH TO ASK FOR OUR HELP

They gave Amy the ability to see the future

WHICH SHE CHOSE TO TAKE ANYWAY

I mean, she literally fucking asks her future husband if she should change her future, and he says no. That's literally the last line in the movie, showing the power of choice in a world where you see all the options.

Explain the rationale which makes you think there is no free will.

The aliens, Amy Adams, everyone sees the future EXACTLY how it's going to happen. If you tried to change it then you wouldn't get that vision in the first place, you would get a different one. Everything that will happen has already happened in the 4th dimension, there is no changing it because it all runs together.

First calm down, it's okay not to understand, no need for triggered caps lock. And don't use the word "literally" if what you saying isn't actually literally true.

She can't change the future because she already "saw" it, so whatever she chose or wanted to do in the first place will be in the vision she sees.
She knows what's coming and is embracing all the moments, appreciating every waking moment of it. That’s basically what the film is about, appreciating every moment of your life.


Here's an excerpt from an interview with Villeneuve to maybe clear things up for you:
>"The idea is that the heptapods see life like a [scripted] play. They know what will happen, so they have the choice — either they do it bored to death, or they embrace it and try to be at their best, like an actor on a stage."

she explained that the gift comes from truly understanding the language.
watch the movie again, listen to the entire dialogue and character interactions

or do yourself a favour and stick to capeshit

Have you ever tried learning a foreign language? I'm guessing not.

Calm down you turbonerd. There is an easy answer to this. If you can see the future, you should already know you can't change it. Otherwise you are not actually seeing the future, but a hallucination. I think we can say for certainty Amy was seeing the real future.

least someone understood it.
the gift broke time, it made it non linear.
time is fluid conventionally, but it was temperamental after getting the gift as it all ran simultaneously, any 1 action in time affects all actions across time and visa versa

the aliens comunicate in coffee cup stains. fucking wow.

Dude why are you being such a cunt from a simple question which you still can't answer? I understand the 'gift' is simply to understand the language but her duty to humanity was to teach it to everyone else, hence her book. So why was it that other people, like Renner didn't have the gift when she obviously passed it on? Give me a proper answer this time otherwise you don't have a clue.

No, you don't understand. They don't see one singular choice, they see all choices and they choose which one to take.

> Everything that will happen has already happened in the 4th dimension, there is no changing it because it all runs together.
No, as doing literally nothing changes this. You are missing the point, they see 2 futures, obviously, the one where they die, and the one where they live. They chose the one where they live. It's explicit, free choice.


Oh, so it was written by someone who has no idea how fee-will works and has some scy-fi understanding of time.

Gotcha. Humans are beings capable of meta thinking. If you are given a map of the future, the events that happen you don't just accept it and go about it, you question everything at every corner, what will happen now, what will happen here? Unless, the Aliens see literally ever single choice at all times, it's still a choice on which path to take in order to get to the desired point.

Like, you say I have no understanding, it's pretty evident you haven't even thought about the points being made past their surface value.

>Calm down you turbonerd. There is an easy answer to this. If you can see the future, you should already know you can't change it. Otherwise you are not actually seeing the future, but a hallucination. I think we can say for certainty Amy was seeing the real future.

How do they know they know there is a threat if in the future there is no threat?

>Calm down you turbonerd. There is an easy answer to this. If you can see the future, you should already know you can't change it. Otherwise you are not actually seeing the future, but a hallucination. I think we can say for certainty Amy was seeing the real future.

>you can't change the future
>even though that's exactly what the aliens are doing

>they see 2 futures, obviously, the one where they die, and the one where they live

No they only see the future where humanity is there to save them. There are no other outcomes. I know it's hard to understand because it's a paradox.

>even though that's exactly what the aliens are doing

Please explain how

>You are missing the point, they see 2 futures, obviously, the one where they die, and the one where they live. They chose the one where they live. It's explicit, free choice.

Nice preconcieved headcanon right there.
You just pulled that information out of your ass because it certainly wasn't even implied anywhere in the movie

No, it's not. The only paradox in this movie is Amy calling the general. There is no other loop.

>There are no other outcomes
Kek, how can you be so fucking idiotic. The other outcome is blatant non-existence via not getting the help they need.

Are you seriously telling me, even if we are given the future map like Amy did, there wouldn't be some nihilistic humans out there saying we have to do nothing. Doing nothing is always a choice, just because they didn't do nothing in their movie doesn't mean doing nothing is never a choice. Hell, those aliens could have an-hereoed themselves, we didn't see it, but it's choice.

Literally the only way you can say there is no free-will is in retrospect of the choice. You say
>he had steak for breakfast
>so he was always going to have steak for breakfast

Totally disregarding the second I am in thought thinking
>should I have steak?

You rebuttal is literally 'no'. Try Harder.

precisely, actually watch the movie, listen to the dialogue. This movie is dialogue centric, not a visual light show for zombies, like capeshit.

When an author, and by proxy the director added the dialogue between adams and renner in the helicopter, there was a reason.
When there was dialogue between adams and the daughter, there was a reason.
When adams had dialogue with the colonel and said ask the guy, his second choice, "what is the sanskrit definition of war" there was a reason it is in the film.
When adams said to the colonel that there is more to the language when you truly understand it....there is a reason that dialogue is in the movie.

Of course, you would understand this IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCHED THE FUCKING MOVIE

so again, to reiterate...you should stick to capeshit, this type of stuff goes over your head.

or watch what the bleep do we know, it is catered for your attention span.

This is cute.

???

>see future where they die
>see ability to live via getting help from humans
What were the aliens doing again?

What the fuck are the aliens doing then? Acting on some pre-programmed code? Are you seriously trying to imply they didn't chose to build their space craft, they didn't chose to come to earth? Doing something in the absence of nothing is a fucking choice you pleb. The simple fact that they are doing something shows that they are making choices.

They NEED humanities help in 3,00 years, which means they HAVE to give them the ability to survive that long. If they didn't go to earth and give us the map they would fucking die, are you seriously implying that is not a conceivable choice in the world, simply because in the movie they did not? You didn't see them dispose of their waste, yet I bet they do somehow, and they would choose where to put it.

Oh, you actually haven't a clue what you're talking about. Nice rant but you sound a bit autistic.

Are you aware that you don't agree with the opinion of the dude who actually made the film?

I posted that excerpt from the interview with the director where he clearly says there is no free will in their choices in the movie, and you just dismiss that entirely and go on your autistic crusade of what you think the movie is really about.

Just think about what you are typing, it's a bit sad really to see someone so delusional.

I know exactly what I am doing. Kek. I am explaining to you just how it doesn't work.

I like how you stoped to even bother to touch the points. Time simply doesn't work how this director says it does.

Trust me, I invented my own time travel theory literally never thought up before. Free of any and all paradox involved in any other time travel theory.

Its almost perfect. And these aliens essentially take on the role of 'fate' which is how I express the universe. Trust me, it makes total sense, but there is still choice. A sense of pseudo-choice, which the director is completely wrong about.

could she and the aliens actually manipulate their future at all? for instance, could she actually have not have had the kid, or was it impossible not to?

here is the picture. Try to find a hole apart from the obvious technological restrictions.

No, choice is an illusion because the outcome has already been decided.

I would have liked if there was a hint of what was going to happen to the aliens.

I did not want to spoiler it for you because the movie clearly slipped through your intellect

helicopter dialogue
>renner is too mathematician thinking to understand the subtleties of really understanding language and communication
daughter dialogue
>father understands more about material things than people
dialogue with colonel about second best
>second best does not truly understand language and it's real meaning, only has intellectual understandings, implying adams is the best person in the world who understands what language really is
last dialogue with colonel
>she blatantly says, (which is obviously directed at the viewer, as narrative to tell the story) that there is a deeper level of understanding the language, and when you do, you gain the gifts she had received from the decopods

watch AND listen to the fucking movie

I wish you all the best user, I really do.
There's no point of me saying anything more.

Hope you have someone to talk to and that you are not left alone by yourself.

kek. Nice try.

Thanks for staying in the thread but I actually looked up the real answer while you were thinking of your pseudo-intellectual horse crap. The real reason not everyone had the gift yet was because the aliens only gave the Americans one part (1/12th to be exact) of the rosetta stone so to speak. It would be later in the future when humanity came together that they could truly understand it all. So yeah, maybe you should pay attention also.

i dont understand it, what exactly prevents her from simply not having the kid why must she have it

>The real reason not everyone had the gift yet was because the aliens only gave the Americans one part (1/12th to be exact) of the rosetta stone so to speak
this is no in now way some sort of mystical answer you need to find on the internet, it is shown in the movie.
the reason no one had the gift was because they did not understand the language...she was the first one to decipher it.. then she taught it.
renner didn't truly understand the language as he did not have the mental capacity to understand it, only she did as she is the best linguist in the world, which is what the entire movie is about..

TIMES NOT LINEAR.

But seriously, the director fucked up if he actually said there was no free choice, they literally have dialogue expressing the fact she is choosing to have her child.

Not that user you were replying to either.

what's the bluray RIP called senpaitachi?

why would he say that? The main emotional impact of the ending was that she still chose to be with Renner and have the child despite knowing that the child would die and she'd divorce Renner.

>renner didn't truly understand the language as he did not have the mental capacity to understand it

Are you saying a top level scientist wouldn't be able to understand the language even though the rest of humanity is expected to learn it also? He already had a good grasp of it while working with her, there is no reason why he couldn't learn the rest when she finished her book.

>But seriously, the director fucked up if he actually said there was no free choice, they literally have dialogue expressing the fact she is choosing to have her child.
Perhaps during that dialogue she simply didn't know what she was talking about? It was like a fuck you to the viewers who actually understood what was going on.

>The main emotional impact of the ending was that she still chose to be with Renner and have the child despite knowing that the child would die and she'd divorce Renner.

Sorry to say it but the only people who cannot understand this are emotional detached people, i.e. the majority of this website.

People want to live regardless of their circumstance, ask anyone on their death bed if they would have rather never lived or dying now, chances are they will say they wanted to live, even knowing they would live a short life.

I mean, why wouldn't you bring a child into the planet, even if you knew it was going to die, semi-young?

You cannot prove your child will live into old age, anyhow.

whoopsie, i totally misread your post.

My fucking bad.

Here is what he director supposedly said.
>>"The idea is that the heptapods see life like a [scripted] play. They know what will happen, so they have the choice — either they do it bored to death, or they embrace it and try to be at their best, like an actor on a stage."

What is the evolutionary benefit of communicating with ink you shoot out of your hands?

We cannot answer that because we do not know the circumstancing leading to their evolution.

for all we know they are communicating with their cum

I recommend the whole book, most of the stories are pretty interesting

as I said already, and as it says in the movie, truly understanding the language is what gave her the gift.
Like her second best peer, who teaches language, but could not give a real definition of the sanskrit word for war. Someone may be able to intellectually understand the symbols, but that does not mean they truly understand the language. She was the first, the only one we see in the movie who does understand it.
She explains this in the movie.

From what we see in the movie :

- they look squid like
- their side of the barrier has lower gravity and it looks viscous somehow
- they communicate by ejecting an ink and manipulating it mid-air

It's likely they evolved from squid like organisms in a water environment and the communication was done through low hum frequencies and through squirting of ink which become more elaborate later.

Also in a deeper sea-like environment there would be no indication of passage of time so that might be the reason they evolved a difference sense of time than us. We throughout history were exposed to day-light cycles and yearly cycles, forming our perception of how time passes.
They might've evolved with no such cycles and only were exposed to it once they left their initial environment later on.

Yeah man, I get that she was the first to truly understand it, but her job was to then make it so other humans, like Renner, could understand it too. I'm not talking about him being able to see the future during the crisis, (even though it's suggested that he could because of the weird dreams he was getting), I'm asking why the hell couldn't he see his daughter's death afterwards when supposedly the gift was given to everyone. And don't say it's because he couldn't possibly understand it.

>the average Sup Forums poster didnt understood the movie

Cant say I'm surprised

Why didn't the aliens already know English?

Amy Adams already knew what to say to the Chinese military guy.

The aliens should just already know English and the humans should just have to show them a dictionary when they land.

This movie is so fucking retarded, when I first watched I didn't mind it too much but remembering it and reading some of the shit here it really makes you think

Consider it an ultimatum:

-If humans learn to cooperate they'll get to understand time as the aliens do and thrive as a race towards the stars.
-If they can't cooperate they'll just make a lot of noise and anhilate each other.

The whole point of the movie can be summarised in a single word: Communication

Holy fucking shit this place is retarded

>I'll just quote some random people and call them retarded without adding anything else to refute their posts.

thats not true at all, the story was kinda shitty, but i loved the movie for its visuals an i think most people that enjoyed the movie liked the visuals, sound, and music
based on what i've read of reviews
its one of those movies where you need to really shut off your brain, and i know that triggers you but its the truth

It was kind of a dick move of Amy not to tell Ian she knew their child would die.

>but muh choice despite knowing how it turns out!
By doing so, she robbed Ian of his choice. He was right to leave her.

Also, since she was the most proficient in the alien language, wouldn't people want to know what she saw in the future? Wouldn't Ian, her husband, want to know? I guess she lied the whole time. Again, dick move.

It also bothered me that while the whole purpose of the aliens was to communicate with humans and teach them their language, humans did most of the work. Couldn't they like make it easier for them?

You're missing the point, man.
The real reason this movie is great is because time isn't linear lmao

Shit, meant Louise, not Amy.

>So why was it that other people, like Renner didn't have the gift when she obviously passed it on?

So why is it that not every person on Earth speaks Spanish even though there are all these books on how to speak Spanish??????????

Just because information exists doesn't mean people will utilize it. Just because it's possible to learn a language doesn't mean every human will suddenly become fluent in it.

>one of those movies where you need to really shut off your brain
well I guess that is why you and others in the thread do not understand the concepts of the movie.
this story is an adaptation of a book, with a lot of first person narrative.
Of course both the book and movie create a visual idea of story telling but the main story telling in both movie and book is the narrative.

I noticed that there's always several retards in these threads, who come away with the misrepresentation of the facts in the film. No, it's not a predetermined universe. Time can fork and be changed, depending on your personal choice to accept the fate that you currently see, or whether you choose to fight against it like, like a fish fighting against a current in a river.

The fact that the aliens came to ask for humans for help, implies that they foresee some future calamity that they wish to avoid. So some things, they do want to change. But the overall message of the movie is that truly enlightened beings accept their own personal fates, and choose not to go against the grain, for the greater good. It seems like it has a very 'for the good of the collective' type message. After all, the universal language or 'weapon' is gifted to humanity, in order to unite them and get them to ascend to the heptapods' level of enlightenment.

tl;dr the message behind the film is that you should live life in the moment, i.e. journey is all that matters, and accept that you're just a cog in a machine that needs to be kept running. Also, grief is something you are supposed to accept and welcome as a phase in life, as opposed to being embittered by it, like Ian's character.

As someone already sort of pointed out; Amy can see things that will happen based on the choices she will make. If she is able to change her choices then she would have also seen a different future, probably one she would prefer.

>several retards
Pretty sure you're on the nonpopular half of the argument

I didn't see any disagreement with what I just said, I am a bit loopy on a xanax from earlier. I don't want to get into a long spat, cause I've debated the free will side of the argument half a dozen times now in these threads.

Free will may or may not exist. Whatever. But I don't think the heptapods are like characters playing out the roles from a manuscript. They're more like actors who voluntarily accept their roles, and go along for the ride, and do the best they can.

Lets go with that. I'm not ever arguing here, just pointing out things how I perceived them.

Poor Abott