Doctor Who General - /WHO/

Lazarus Experiment Edition

Reminder:
twitter.com/brinatello/status/805871890585632768

Other urls found in this thread:

doctorwhogeneral.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lazarus_Experiment
doctorwhogeneral.wikia.com/wiki/The_Long_Game
anti-moffat.tumblr.com/post/51962691845/not-so-tragic-back-story
youtube.com/watch?v=RPAyUXHOweU
youtube.com/watch?v=MogTR2RpcSU
youtube.com/watch?v=jRAerEdo6xA
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Lazarus Experiment gets hated for no reason.
It's alright. Has a lot of character development.

Reminder that /who/ is canon now.

they were clearly fucking

The page on it is really short:
doctorwhogeneral.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lazarus_Experiment

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anyone got that webm when capaldi and jenna were both asked a question and jenna was just staring at him and didn't answer until capaldi nudged her.

I would be happy with that list but maybe chuck in Matt Fitton and Cartmel

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Cool as that would be, they can't get Cartmel until at least the next major license renegotiation.

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Well, hate's a bit strong, but I find it pretty generic - just "mad scientist makes dodgy-looking CGI monster, followed by chase scenes". Gatiss does a decent job as the Professor though.

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What? Why?

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Never heard of this - what sort of license is he under?

Chibnall era logos

what character development?

The giant scorpion villain of this ep used to freak me out as a kid

Holy shit you don't just do that by accident, what made him do that?

He wanted to erase the interviewer

Well, the show is produced by BBC Wales under license from the BBC. During the initial licensing negotiations, RTD made a lot of very peculiar stipulations (one of these was saving Big Finish from the garbage heap). I mean, everyone did, it was a weird time. The Nation Estate's stipulations are responsible for the annual Dalek episodes, after all. Most of the stipulations get renewed along with the license every time, and only a few particular ones have been changed or altered since the show came back in 2005. The last major change was the alteration of how NuWho elements themselves could be licensed, which is why new series elements suddenly started showing up in Big Finish just a couple years.

Anyways, the key stipulation in this regard was made by RTD, a special requisite he placed into the license agreement along with some of the steps he took to preserve Big Finish, he was able to create a black list of creative talent he wanted unconnected to the new series. Among the names were some obvious (Ian Levine), some controversial (Keff and McGann) and one stick of dynamite in the form of Andrew Cartmel. The reason, of course, is long and storied Who Lore, though it's summed up concisely here:

doctorwhogeneral.wikia.com/wiki/The_Long_Game

>tfw you will never be in a threesome with Jenna and Capaldi

The old Malcolm Tucker habits die hard

Martha's family

I have a story about this episode.
Series 3 were shown in 2007 in Russia, and episodes were once a week.
When this episode was supposed to air, for some reason TV-channel decided not to show Doctor Who, but shown Dune of Lynch's instead.

I was mad.
I wanted my weekly doctor who so bad that I sent a letter to STS(channel's name) office.

There was a gap in the UK as well for football or something like that.

Yeah, it isn't too bad. Awfully generic, but far from terrible.

Stop shipping.

i'm not shipping

I can remember seeing some of the promotional stills for the last two episodes of series 3, and billboards which had "Vote Saxon" on them also had Lazarus stamped on them.

I had a worrying feeling that more of the scorpion creatures would come back as Saxon/The Masters army.

It all started with Sherlock BBC, for me. I absolutely loved it; the quick, snappy dialogue, the rushing pace of the plot, the twists and turns of the characters. At the time, I didn’t know anything about Steven Moffat or Mark Gatiss, because I had yet to throw myself into tumblr and become obsessive over the production process as well as the shows themselves. But I watched every episode eagerly, and since there were only three at the time, I was bursting with frustration for the next season. So I decided to find another show to fill the hole in my heart until season two.

So, I started watching Doctor Who – relatively late, compared to most. I started when Tennant was in the middle of his run, and Tennant was my first doctor. Actually, the Moffat episode “Blink” was my very first Doctor Who episode. I was caught by the tiny glimpses we had of Ten – it was as if I was struck by a lightning bolt, and I consumed as many episodes as I could, as fast as I could.

Somewhere in there, I scoured the depths of tumblr looking for more Sherlock and Doctor Who, and was amazed at the community lying in wait for me. I devoured everything I could lay my grubby little hands on. I learned about Russell T. Davies, and his tendency towards what-the-fuckery. I learned about Steven Moffat, and his tendency towards crazy and clever plotlines. I learned about Mark Gatiss and Neil Gaiman and a bunch of other behind-the-scenes staff.

Probably due to my budding interest in film and television production as a career option, I started learning much more about the production process in general, and came to appreciate the production staff more than ever before. I was fond of all of them, and playfully said things like, “MOFFAT!” while shaking my fist, and “WHAT THE FUCK, RUSSELL T.,” when something really fucking weird happened in a Tennant episode. The writers took on their own characteristics in my mind, and I started to identify their individual writing styles and preferred plot points and underlying messages in their episodes.

Since Doctor Who was run by RTD at the time, the overarching plots and character developments were all heavily influenced by him, and Doctor Who had his mark all over it. I loved it. I was, of course, taking some of RTD’s episode resolutions with a grain of salt, as well as throwing my hands up in the air disbelievingly at some of his more… interesting decisions. But I never hated him, because it was always meant well.

Though the science of the thing might not quite have matched up, or the cheese factor was so strong it burnt the inside of my nose with its smell, I forgave it because the reason he did stuff like that was always to get a message across. A good message, one about the beauty of life or the infinity of the universe or the intrinsic uniqueness and importance of every single person alive. And by looking past the weaker plotlines of some of the episodes, I happily accepted the messages of affirmation of life, beauty, and happiness despite all the suffering that the Doctor had endured that RTD sent.

Basically, even though I laughed at some of Russell T.’s cheesy dialogue, even though I found some technical faults in his plots, the overall effect and meaning of his Doctor Who inspired me. Because Russell T. might not be all that when it comes to specific episode plot resolutions, perhaps, but he is one of the best world-builders and character developers and ongoing season plotters I’ve come across. Bad Wolf, anyone? Midnight?

Then I reached Moffat’s episodes again, with this new world-view that allowed me to peek into the episodes from a production standpoint, rather than just accepting what happens on screen at face value.

I was pissed.

With the “Girl in the Fireplace” episode, I’d only been initially angry about the Doctor falling for Madame Pompadour because I shipped Doctor/Rose and couldn’t believe he’d forgotten about her so fast. But with this new knowledge of the man behind the curtain, I was livid. I knew that the writer of the episode was pulling the strings now, and I knew that he’d gotten some stuff pretty wrong. When it came down to it, it wasn’t really what the Doctor would do. Not the Doctor that I’d come to know, at least. I was shocked out of my suspension of disbelief, and extremely bitter about it. Moffat got it wrong, I thought. It felt like a fanfic that had missed the mark and had gone into OOC territory.

what?

Like, the Doctor revealing that he’s always had a thing for the historical figure Madame du Pompadour, who’s known for being a prostitute, for the very reason that she is history’s biggest prostitute? Like, what? The reason he falls in love with this girl in ten minutes his time is because he heard she was a pretty good prostitute. Really. Nothing else about her, no actual character traits or anything, is mentioned by him. Yeah, okay, she was a real, fully rounded person in history, and Doctor Who is about seeing people for more than what they are by society’s standards and labels. But hooking up with Madame du Pompadour and being in love with her and all this other stuff because of the label? Without even really getting to know who she actually is? That shit is weird. And it seems counter to the RTD message. (Also it’s creepy that Moffat literally makes her life revolve around the Doctor from her childhood until her death? Anyone else creeped out by the fact that she has no other choice but to spend her life waiting for him and then never has the life she wants with him? No? Just me?)

(By the way, definitely going to do an episode-by-episode Moffat analysis, in which I will further elucidate my feelings and thoughts on that particular episode. There are many more things to say and many more problems to address that connect with other episodes and Moffat tropes, but I’ve got to stop talking about it here. Moving on.)

So I started to get pissed about Moffat’s writing in a general sense, but was pretty blasé about it for the most part. I figured that every writer has their strengths and weaknesses, like how I loved RTD’s overall plots and developments but he went overboard with cheesy dialogue and whack plot resolutions sometimes. I figured that it wouldn’t disrupt the Doctor Who message in the long run. I figured that Moffat’s fail at character development would just be the bit of contention that I would always hold with Moffat, while also appreciating his other qualities. Kind of like how Moffat was balanced out by Gatiss so well when it came to Sherlock BBC. I figured that they would continue to balance it out in Doctor Who, too.

Ha. Haha. Hahahahaha. Ha.

Then Moffat took over as showrunner of Doctor Who with Matt Smith as the Eleventh Doctor. RTD was gone. Tennant was gone. Moffat was in control of everything.

I didn’t fully understand the scope of it at the time, because I was incredibly cut up over Tennant leaving. I mourned for a good two months after I heard the news before I finally got up the courage to watch Tennant’s final episode specials. After that, I couldn’t move on and watch Matt Smith’s new episodes for another couple months. It was bad. I’d gotten way too invested in Tennant’s Doctor, as he was my first and most loved Doctor probably of all time. I’d even started getting a bit resentful of Smith, just from the fact he wasn’t Tennant, and I knew that was a terrible attitude to have. I knew that I had to wait it out until my resentment died down to watch Matt Smith’s Doctor. So, I waited.

what??

Finally, I watched the New Who.

It was the Christmas special taking from A Christmas Carol. It was all right. I was a bit annoyed because I knew I was being emotionally manipulated the whole time. But other than that, I passively enjoyed it. I wasn’t emotionally connected to any of the characters, sort of liked the plot, whatever. I accepted that Matt Smith was not offensive to me personally as the Doctor. I could start watching the new series. (I still wasn’t over Tennant, of course. I’ll never be over Tennant)

So I watched the Eleventh Hour and all the rest that had come out while I had been in mourning.

But they were boring.

I stopped watching every week. I’d randomly catch up on episodes sometimes over weekends, when I started feeling guilty and behind. But honestly, Amy was boring, the Doctor was boring, Rory was boring. River Song was boring to me, too, when she showed up again.

They were so boring to me because I couldn’t give a shit about any of the characters. I did not give a single fuck. I could not give a single fuck. I tried, desperately, to give all the fucks that I had given before. Because I was still in love with the idea of Doctor Who, and everything it represented from the RTD era. But no. No fucks could be given.

As I watched more episodes, desperate to cling on to something in them, it became clear to me that this New Who was nothing like the RTD era in terms of message. If there even was one.

what's happening

I started getting pissed off at Amy. I started hating her. Why? Because I couldn’t give a damn about her, even though I really wanted to. She just wasn’t anyone to me. She still isn’t. To me, she’s just a character with bad lines and bad story development instead of an actual human being. All the other companions were people to me, real people with families and history and reasons for things. Not her. I’ll probably only ever see her as Moffat’s plot device. Probably because that’s basically what she is. (And don’t even get me started on River Song. I’ll need a masterpost.)

But yeah, I got pissed at and bored with Doctor Who. Got pretty bitter, stopped watching regularly.

I was still in love with Sherlock BBC, though. I thought it was masterful, didn’t see any problems with it, loved the three episodes of season one as I always had. (There’s a ton of problems in it, of course, that I didn’t see or perhaps even refused to see. Problems I will talk about later, of course.)

Then Scandal in Belgravia came out at the start of the new year.

Oh man, here we go. This was the domino that really just knocked everything the fuck over – Irene Adler.

To be specific, Moffat’s Irene Adler.

Just. No. Sherlock BBC had gotten me into the original canon that Doyle wrote. I’d bought the book, read the stories, loved it. Loved the Irene Adler story, too. Had been looking forward to her episode, because I trusted them to handle it well.

Nope.

Sure, fine, dominatrix. Sure, fine, Sherlock’s female doppleganger. Sure, fine, time skips. All that stuff.

But then the whole episode, Irene had the worst lines – an onslaught of poorly fabricated innuendos. And she had the worst developments. Oh, you know, her entire character was degraded until she was dependent on Sherlock to save her. Oh, you know, the whole scheme wasn’t actually Irene’s, it was Moriarity’s. Oh, you know, there was no actual logical scheme in the first place, not really. It was just a bunch of shit thrown together by Moffat from a bunch of different Holmes stories to look cool but came out like shit. Oh, and Irene didn’t actually win the way she was supposed to, sailing off to America with her husband she loved, no no no, Irene had to be humiliated in the very last scene only to be saved on the whim of Sherlock. Oh, and the reason Sherlock liked her and respected her enough to save her or even consider her an equal was because he was into her, not because she was a badass who really did beat him with the sheer power of her intellect.

Just.

No.

It was too much. It broke the dam. I hated Moffat. I loathed him. I couldn’t stand it. And that feeling has intensified over time; the more of his stuff I watch, the more I loathe. And the more angry stuff I read online about him and his writing to assure myself that I’m not crazy.

All leading to this blog’s creation.

Yes, I want to get my own opinion out there. I want to be able to let go of this vitriolic and self-destructive amount of hate that I hold for Moffat and his writings through talking about it. I want to communicate all the thoughts I have about his worlds and characters, because holding them inside me is just unhealthy.

>So I watched the Eleventh Hour and all the rest that had come out while I had been in mourning.
>But they were boring.


stopped reading there

But more importantly, there are so many people that watch Moffat’s stuff that don’t see the problematic things. They don’t notice the dangerous subtext that’s being communicated to them that continues to subtly promote sexism among other things. They don’t see the negative, poisonous ideas that are hidden in Moffat’s subtext, and that’s the thing I dread most of all: Moffat’s writing leading people into dangerous, unhealthy territory, socially and mentally.

If I can just communicate the Moffat stuff that’s so incredibly fucking wrong, maybe someone that needs to see it will see it.

Maybe I can help people take a deeper look into what Moffat is feeding to them. Maybe I can help people expand their idea of what television is, what it can do, what power it can hold over them if they’re not carefully paying attention.

Because television can be dangerous. It can tell people the wrong things through the context of a narrative, when people’s guards are down. And people can soak up extremely fucked up ideas through subtext that they don’t even realize they’re perpetrating.

In the end, the thing that scares me the most about Moffat is the fact that he doesn’t think his work has any problems. And some people that watch his stuff don’t think it has any, either. And I want to be part of a movement that informs those people that no. Moffat has some fucked up ideas in his head, and those translate onto the screen, and you should not let them poison your mind.

The thing about Doctor Who that has kept me coming back is the message of love and acceptance. And I want to be a part of that message in my interactions in the Doctor Who fandom. I don’t want to stomp people’s faces in for liking characters like Amy or River. I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings who love Moffat’s plots.

Instead of doing any of that, I want to open people’s minds to the particulars in Moffat’s work that is not about love or acceptance at all, but is actually perpetrating extremely negative and backwards social stereotypes and stigma.

I want to open people’s minds to think about what they’re consuming and examine the world that they have become emotionally vulnerable towards.

I want people to be able to recognize good writing from bad, I want people to be inspired instead of bored, I want people to love instead of hate.

If you want those things too, if you’re dissatisfied with Moffat and want to let out some of your feelings, or even if you’re generally confused about why people dislike Moffat and want to read up, this might be the blog for you.

I would love to talk to you about this. I would love to share ideas, I would love to communicate with people like me and people who aren’t at all like me.

I would love it if other people cared, because this is important to me.

So if you’d like to come along with me on this, if you’d like to see a box that’s much bigger on the inside, let’s take a look into the working, living, breathing television series that Moffat has had such a hand in.

Allons-y!

...

...how long is this?

anti-moffat.tumblr.com/post/51962691845/not-so-tragic-back-story

It's over. Thank god.

>the Doctor revealing that he’s always had a thing for the historical figure Madame du Pompadour, who’s known for being a prostitute, for the very reason that she is history’s biggest prostitute?
I don't remember this? Did it actually happen?

>mfw Moffat's final series is so GOAT that not even his most vehement haters will be able to deny it and they will be shocked into a stunned silence

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i will never understand how some people just make shit up to bash moffat or just make opinions without a reason behind them. The Moffat era has been far from all smiles, but some people just seem to hate just so they can hate something. I can understand some peoples hatred of Moffat but not when its irrational

BRING SALLY UP

>doctor calling rose a monkey
Father's day is GOAT.

Martha looks so good, wish there was more of her.

_T
TQT
_T

Same. I saw a picture of it in the radio times and had a genuinely terrifying nightmare about it.

How much do you wanna bet that out there, there's a Doctor Who/Pirates of Caribbeans crossover fan fic with Jack Sparrow being an ancestor of Sally Sparrow?

They tried to copy it in the Flesh 2-parter of Series 6 as well

What BBC Three show was this?

Doctor Who World Tour

>i will never understand how some people just make shit up to bash moffat or just make opinions without a reason behind them
In the old days, people only did this for each new Doctor. Nowadays, the showrunner being part of the publicity train almost as much as the Doctor, so they get the same shit.

And there are always idiots that make shit up to make their point stronger, instead of realizing they don't have one. I remember someone insisting that Peter Davison sucked because the real Doctor would never have taken Adric onboard the way he did. Until the Targets came out 2-4 years later, there was no way to prove to him that it was his "real Doctor" that took Adric onboard, but still, he must have known. He just wanted another reason to hate Five, so he made one up.

I watched this episode just after the amazing San Junipero Black Mirror episode just to see Gugu Mbatha-Raw again.

>tfw no threesome with Jenna and Doctor Hayley.

Jack Harkness is Face of Boe.
This is my headcanon.

Malcolm Merlyn is the Face of Boe; he just happens to look just like Jack Harkness.

Fitton really isn't a very interesting writer. I'd much rather have someone with zero Doctor Who history than someone who's written a hundred forgettable audios.

Will he be the greatest Doctor of all time?

Moffat says that he's shy and doesn't like being recognised in public. But he seems to make an effort to appear at every publicity event or interview going. He likes being a celebrity and he shouldn't be surprised at backlash when he's such a public figure.

>Afterlife
>forgettable

apart from that i see your point

"This is my ultimate victory, Doctor! The destruction of reality itself!"
"Shut it Davros, you mug!"

>But he seems to make an effort to appear at every publicity event or interview going

Yeah, this is what showrunners tend to do. They play a huge part in the creation of the series so they are expected to go to conventions and interviews.

Moffat clearly doesn't like being a celebrity. How many pictures do we have of him on set? What about fans' pictures with them? There are hardly any.

DONNY DOIAAAAAAAAAAAAH

>tfw Aunt Babe joins him and we have a Blaineposting renaissance

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Moffat's public appearances dwarf RTD's and the classic series' showrunners. Sets are rarely public and he's usually stuck in his office anyway. And he has posed for a shit ton of selfies and looks genuinely happy in them.

LEAKED Series 11 theme reminder

youtube.com/watch?v=RPAyUXHOweU

>he shouldn't be surprised at backlash
Sure, and if he were whining about it, I'd tell him to shut up. But this isn't him whining about it, this is me pointing out that much of it is irrational.

Someone can't admit that he hates Smith for not being Tennant, and hates Amy for loving the wrong Doctor, so he convinces himself that hating Amy is the feminist thing to do.

Yeah, Moffat knew he'd have to deal with people like this, and he's still got the best job in the world despite them—but they're still idiots. That's all I'm saying.

youtube.com/watch?v=MogTR2RpcSU

This is magical. What was your first reaction of this scene?

Just found this - pretty neat
youtube.com/watch?v=jRAerEdo6xA

I immediately screamed That's Gareth!
What a great twist it was to have Gareth Roberts revealed as the Face of Boe.

Blon Fel Fodge Pasamere Day Slitheen (I think) was a fantastic villain. I love villains that come across as merely slightly naughty even though what they are doing is actually horrendous.

Doctor who is fucking garbage.
It can tell any story in all of time and space and it always ends up a shitty looking celebration of mediocrity.
It's a predictable, safe formulaic children's show where the Le wacky man saves the day with some 'witty' banter and a 'clever' scheme.
The Doctor never goes anywhere in his development, just going from dark to light or dark to light depending on the incarnation.
It has no love for science or history, it just boils everything down for lowest common denominator. It's a waste of time and effort,
why don't you losers mature and watch some grown up television for a change.
You shouldn't watch doctor who unless it's with your own children but I really don't want you plebs procreating.

Quit trying to push it. It's nice but it'd never work as a Doctor Who theme. I've seen other people tell you this, and this is like the third time you've posted it.

It's people like you who made Gareth leave.

Our new showrunner ladies and gentlemen...

I'm never listening to this, frank offerino

I have no interested in reading the blog of some muppet who hatewatches. In five years time you'll feel pretty damn stupid about hating on the guy just the same as all the asshats who ridiculed RTD back in the day. Get a life,.

Damn they're cute together.

It's actually the 8th time I've posted it

Stop forcing this meme! /who/ has way better memes than this

Look Who just became unemployed.

>Gugu Mbatha-Raw
She is a good actress, and can be great in the right role, and she's cute too, but… you really think she was good as Tish?

This man is the 13th Doctor. So is Danny Dyer. And that man from Broadchurch. Also Mark Gatiss.

...

Not that user but I've fapped so many times to her since 2007.
>She will never be your secretary

The pedophile childkiller from Broadchurch you mean? That would be hilarious.

Still wonder to this day if the rumour is true that Cap Jack was supposed to return for A Good Man Goes to War, and be made an immortal head by the headless monks. But Barrowman was unable to cos filming other stuff.

no I think he means that dennis terrance guy? idk if thats his name