YOULL TAKE RUSSIANS OVER SAUDIS?!? OK THANKS LOL!

YOULL TAKE RUSSIANS OVER SAUDIS?!? OK THANKS LOL!

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youtube.com/watch?v=wHmhf_wrcrM
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
youtube.com/watch?v=hg_lQNv6onw
salon.com/2015/05/20/george_w_bushs_cia_briefer_admits_iraq_wmd_intelligence_was_a_lie/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

saudis are our second greatest ally

>You'll take our WWII allies over a non-country cesspool of violent extremist degenerates who have funded attacks on America?
>*fake liberal chuckle*
>*thunderous applause*

Spooks (as in CIA spooks, not the other way of using that word) like that guy don't understand that John Q Fuckstick out in Murca doesn't see a relationship with the Saudi royals as something great. Maybe he knows all of the ways in which we benefit from that relationship, but most of those details are kept secret and the alphabets just say "Trust us guys, things are cooler with them." Without the bias of knowing the benefits, we can look at it with sober eyes: a fucking savage theocracy that harbors terrorists and hordes wealth even worse than our oligarchs do. With the Russians, we see a bunch of white/Asian people fucked over by their own flavor of power-mongering fascism and think "I could be friends with fucking Yuri over there, why are they so bad? Ahmed is the one trying to blow me up."

I'm rambling, but the gist is tell us why they're so fucking great instead of pretending they are and we should just be on board with it because you said so.

>WWII allies

Not that I like Saudis or anything but that's really grasping for straws. Remember the 50 years that followed WW2 where your country was locked in a cold war with Russia? They're not your friends though neither are the Saudis.

Stating a basic fact isn't grasping at straws.

Imagine the Cold War with an islamic Russia.

Russians actively work to subvert american interests. Saudis are good trade partners regardless of how awful they are as people. although they do fund some terrorist groups, like hamas in palestine, they're anti-destabilizing fundamentalists because the saudi royal family above all care about getting paid. both countries are awful 3rd world shitholes, but russia is and has been America's greatest existential threat for the last 70 years, but not because they're actively trying to kill americans, their weapons have always been subterfuge, espionage, proxy wars, disinformation campaigns, etc

Russia and the US has shared the same enemies throughout their histories

im still shocked by the tenuous grasps of basic history I see on here. russia was never an ally, just an evil we dealt with while fighting a common enemy. as ww2 ended, attention immediately turned to russia and their attempts to export communism. I thought Sup Forums hated communism, why are they all feverishly sucking russias cock now? just because trump speaks kindly of putin?

Portraying Russia in the light of "our WW2 allies" is kind of tacitly ignoring the fact that the US & USSR were at each others throats before the war even ended.

Makes it sound like things were all hunky-dory and we were best of friends instead of the reality of there being intense suspicion & antipathy on both sides.

>allies
The US and Great Britain were both praying for Germany and Russia to wipe each other from the face of the Earth.

That's why they fucked around in Africa for so long.

Saudis funded 9/11. The CIA is a fucking renegade organization. Watch The Good Shepard. They aren't some patriotic entity.

nobody says the Russian people are our enemies. the question is who's worse, authoritarian dictator A or authoritarian dictator B. one does a lot of business with us, while the other actively attempts to disrupt our economy and influence our politics.

>Saudis are good trade partners
Maybe if you're a weapons manufacturer/oil company.

>Russians actively work to subvert american interests.

As does the US. For example, the annexations of Crimea was in response to US subversion in Kiev. It's a vicious cycle that should stop though.

But both parties are on equal footing when it comes to fucking each other over.

basically

What's wrong with saying as Americans that we should do business with Russia instead of SA?

>Saudis funded 9/11
Good. Saved us taxpayers from footing the bill

>but russia is and has been America's greatest existential threat for the last 70 years,
the Cold War is over. it is now the War on Terror. Islam is our current greatest existential threat.

>Russia is now our greatest enemy, except four years ago when we mocked the Republican for sayings Russians are our enemy

What you're saying is spot on, SA is a better trade partner and they do help us fuck shit up in the ME, but I'm talking about general public opinion on the two countries. Half the country wouldn't care if Josef Mengele put his brain into a cyborb and himself hacked into the DNC because they don't give a fuck about the DNC anyway. And that same half and a portion of the other half can put "Islamophobia" in the rear view and admit to themselves that the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi and that generally shitty people who actually fuck up our country on a direct (and visceral) level come from that country. Russia never sent a single person here to blow up anyone (that we know of, at least).

While Russia *could* be playing some bigger picture chaos game with our society, we're not briefed on all of the details so we're not going to have a gut response. Only the people who eat up all the spoonfed TV news gruel have a gut reaction to it becaues they're Pavlovianly trained to do so. Without that training, not even they would. Only a small fraction who reads the applicable portion of news sources that deal with Russia's fuckery would think that way.

But in this day and age, when we find out we're spying on Germany and that the UK has become a nanny state, nothing is certain, so even reading that small portion of sources wouldn't necessarily elicit that gut response that "Russia is THE #1 baddie on the planet."

>when you ran a perfect campaign and were right about everything but lost

>implying goat fuckers pose a threat

>goat fuckers pose a threat
Yeah, everything is fine!

because, like I said, putin administration actively works to subvert americas economy and politics. and, while the propaganda campaigns are much larger when directed at eastern european states, they still attempt to influence public opinion in america. we don't have the same relationship with saudis, they are dedicated to disrupting america. evil, probably. and it's possible that some officials in their government supported 911 terrorists. but I just don't think it's equally destructive to deal with saudi royal family as it would be to lift sanctions on russia and give putin more influence to carry out his expansionist desires and affect the geopolitical map

the saudis brought down the twin towers you traitorous cunt

>Saudi Arabia doesn't attempt to influence American politics
>But Russia does by having their propaganda on our internet
American propaganda is all over the fucking internet, but I doubt you'd care if anybody accused you of influencing global politics, since it's common knowledge that you do.

>because, like I said, putin administration actively works to subvert americas economy and politics.
and Saudi Arabia doesn't?
>but I just don't think it's equally destructive to deal with saudi royal family as it would be to lift sanctions on russia and give putin more influence to carry out his expansionist desires and affect the geopolitical map
but you're perfectly OK with the Muslim diaspora in Europe? I'm not going to get into this lesser of two evils shit. The Cold War is over. There is a new threat which became revealed on 9/11/2001. Did Russia have anything to do with that? No.

if you're dumb enough to be a Mormon you aren't fit to lead the country. also that leaked bit where he shat on average americans and was winking to all those moguls killed his campaign

>*EU subversion

Which more or less amounted to a tactic approval of an unlawful coup by a populist, pro-western contingent. In no way was the annexation of Crimea a proportional reaction.

Your average Russian sees Ukraine as a border province guaranteed by Russian manifest destiny. The rest of the world, a majority portion of Ukrainians included, do not. This fact is the crux of the disagreement between parties.

Then why weren't on the ban list?

okay so you're just complaining about muslims in general. I thought we were comparing us relations between saudi arabia and russia. I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up for a substantive discussion

Saudis literally did 9/11

>thought Sup Forums hated communism, why are they all feverishly sucking russias cock now? just because trump speaks kindly of putin?
Sup Forums bought into the meme that Russia is some white man's paradise that is stopping the Islamic hordes
in reality Russia has more Muslims than any European country and as a percentage of population they're only behind tiny shitholes like Albania and Bosnia. They're also the only part that has positive population growth.
Oh and there's also parts of Russia that the federal government doesn't even touch and Shariah runs rampant.

But of course Sup Forums runs off of memes and RT headlines so they think Putin is some badass that personally hunts down terrorists and snaps their necks

>I thought Sup Forums hated communism, why are they all feverishly sucking russias cock now?
Because Russia oppresses gays and just legalized wife beating.

Because they weren't on Obama's collection of destabilized countries.

>I just don't think it's equally destructive to deal with Saudi royal family
Tell that to everyone who died on 9/11. Not to be a fucking 9/11 hornblower (I'm firmly in the "we let it happen" camp), but Russia hasn't directly killed an American on our soil that I know of. Evidence of the negative effects of their purported fuckery has never been presented. Even if they hacked the DNC, shining light on DNA fuckery leading to a few more thousand voting Trump is not a negative effect, it's just tipping democracy. If Trump turns out to be a shill and he's going to blow Putin for 4 years in a way that fucks over Americans (and it's proven they hacked the DNC, as well), fine, I will gladly concede that Russia has fucked with us and it's affected us negatively.

then why did we attack afghanistan and Iraq instead? one things for sure, isis has the saudi royal family rethinking their previous support of various extremists. they don't want that shit on their doorstep

It's not crazier than any other sect of Christianity.

Tell me, friend, how many goats constitute a respectable dowry? I always forget that part of the bible.

Russia isn't communist anymore you braindead yuppie.

>EU funds pro-Western political elements
>Russia arms militias and sends SPETSNAZ to annex half the country

Yeah that's totally a proportional response

I am fully aware the US is in bed with Saudi Arabia and we shouldn't ever question why, and blindly considers Russia a huge threat and we should never question why (even though they weren't 4 years ago).

I also understand how people like you will vehemently deny there is a problem until it's staring you in the face.

>hurr what are historical muslim populations versus modern invaders

Those Chechnyan muslims have been there for centuries, there's nothing you can do about it. You might as well try invading Afghanistan again.

US arms militias too.

it's another Sup Forums thread

Saudi Arabia is the worlds biggest importer of arms and one of the worlds largest exporters of oil.

No one invades mudshit populations. They invade us and they get pushed back no matter how many times the Jews try to let them in.

im sick of this lack of dissemination between 'russians' and the 'russian government'.

saying 'russians work to subvert the american people' is like saying 'americans worked to bomb the shit out of iraq'.

just because a government is corrupt, does not mean its people are, and vice versa.

however, i would rather ally with a people of good conscience, who have a corrupt government, than a government of good conscience with corrupt people.

that said, i think both the american and russian people are of a similar conscience, and more similar than either government would want them to think.

closer at least than the arabs.

>what is the Invasion of Iraq

Saudi Arabia cucks us with oil so we couldn't attack them and won't attack or do anything to offend them in the future.

because we are ruled by our neocon overlords who are allied with the Saudis

youtube.com/watch?v=wHmhf_wrcrM

It's not even Chechnya, which obviously is in open revolt against Moscow half the time. Pretty much anywhere in Daghestan or the middle of the Volga is parts of the country Putin's stopped giving a fuck about because it's not advantageous to him

>and blindly considers Russia a huge threat and we should never question why
I take it you're in the "every US intelligence agency is wrong about Russia, Infowars told me so" camp

not in Ukraine

The Jews riling up their attack dogs.

Terrorist do not constitute an existential threat to the United States. A belligerent Russian does. Putin uses grandstanding against the United States as a means to distract the Russians from the failing fundamentals of their economy, declining birthrates, an opiate epidemic, as well as the rampant top-down corruption of his quasi-totalitarian administration. He has a vested interest to continue to shit things up for us. Just look at his approval ratings.

Russians look back nostalgically on the period that constitutes the Cold War. Don't be so sure it's over for good.

>however, i would rather ally with a people of good conscience, who have a corrupt government, than a government of good conscience with corrupt people.
Eastern European here, our countries have shit governments because we deserve them. Russians are hardly people of good conscience, they're various stripes of drunks, crooks, and people who have just given up

>"every US intelligence agency is wrong about Russia, Infowars told me so"
I don't listen to Infowars. I don't think we should crucify Russia for doing exactly what we do.

>the failing fundamentals of their economy, declining birthrates, an opiate epidemic, as well as the rampant top-down corruption
all of these things are happening in the US.

wtf are you talking about

the US has been doing the bidding of zionists for decades, bombing Muslims and supporting Saudi Arabia so the Saudis could spread their Wahhabi Jihadist views to the entire Muslim world.

Before we started funding the Saudis and their terrorist exportation business the Muslim world was relatively secular. Just look at how Muslim women used to dress.

>it's just tipping democracy
lmao are you literally a professional russian shill? how can you say that with a straight face? holy shit!
also, we're talking about governments, not populations. sure an appropriate response to a bunch of murderers coming out of Saudi Arabia may have been austere economic sanctions, but neither republicans or democrats wanted to be responsible for that economic turmoil. it's possible that some saudi officials may have supported 9/11, but we don't know for sure. and it definitely didn't have institutional support within their government. I'm not defending Saudis, they're a bunch of camelfuckers. but we have to look at the relationships and actions of governments, not their populations. and no, russia hasn't killed anyone directly because like I said they deal in subterfuge and, previously, mutually assured destruction deterrence. but some americans have been killed in our proxy wars with them

>I don't think we should crucify Russia for doing exactly what we do.
oh well if we're letting all countries get a pass when the US did the same thing then I guess we can let North Korea nuke Japan and put a giant "all spies welcome" sign in front of Washington DC

if conservatives would allow us to shift away from a dependence on oil and move onto other forms of energy we could be done with them. but the companies that do business with then have convinced americans that investment in green energy is a liberal pipe dream

SOrry, let me rephrase:

I don't think we should crucify Russia for doing something we're CURRENTLY doing.

we known why were in bed with saudi arabia: oil and arms. it's not some kind of conspiracy, our companies do a lot of business with them. I don't think anybody is defending them as good people. in a perfect world we wouldn't have any kind of relationship with either dictatorship

because of those juicy arm contracts obviously, fucking disgusting

>dude saudi arabia only exports Wahhabi extremism all over the world including the west lmao theyre our friends
>dude russians are nazis lmao

I'm sorry I didn't make it clear. when talking about saudis and russians I'm referring purely to their governments. we're talking about international relations, the state as an entity is really the only relevant actor

>listening to US intelligence agencies

this is a new level of retardation that I can't fathom it

Ever heard of the Iraq War hoax? The non existent weapons of Mass destruction the CIA claimed existed? The Gulf of Ton kin? Iran Contra? The coup in Iran in the 50s? Fucks sake the current disaster in Syria is just another example of their incompetence

The very idea that the CIA should even exist anymore is

can confirm. russians are miserable and violent. this isn't an exaggeration, I've been there multiple times. they fucking hate america and americans, as well. they gobble up putins propaganda

It's extra funny that the libtards are eating up this narrative from them as well. Up is down. Black is white. Dogs and cats living together. Well...I guess technically the alphabets are "the govt" and the left has clung to the govt tighter and tighter over the years.

>non existent weapons of Mass destruction the CIA claimed existed

At the behest of Dubya so he could get revenge for daddy and Dick could get access to his oil fields.

yeah youre definitely right, it laughable that someone who worked at the nsa can laud that over us, when the majority of their organisations role is spying on american citizens

It's the liberals that won't let us go nuclear and think we can power the world on the wind you retard.

did you really need to post this lazy strawman? this is the shallowest memeing post you could have made about the topic, while every post above and below yours is actually attempting to engage in a substantive and relatively nuanced discussion

>George Soros, an American citizen, openly funds political policies he supports
>literally Satan, should be dragged into the street and shot

>Putin, head of a foreign government, clandestinely uses spies and stolen information to push for political policies he supports
>potential US friend and ally, give him a chance


Man I remember 6 months ago when Sup Forums was foaming at the mouth at the idea of anyone taking power away from the people and clamoring about draining the swamp. I guess Russia hacking government emails isn't a biggie compared to an old Jew buying some ad time

YALL WHITE DEVILS DON'T WANNA THROW GAYS OFF BUILDINGS AND BAN WOMEN FROM HAVING RIGHTS AND ALSO MAKE APOSTATES PUNISHABLE BY DEATH? HAHAHA

THE WHITE MAN SURE AM FOOLISH

RUSSIANS WANNA TRADE WITH YOU, YOU WANT THAT SHIT YA FUCKING KKK FOOLS?

liberals in scandiavian love nuclear energy, most of their energy comes from it. don't know what our problem here is

the state generally is composed of citizens, or from a pool of citizens. if the general citizen is of a bad moral character, it stands to reason then that, eventually, the government will resemble the character of its people.

even if a government is corrupt, if its people are good, one day the government will likely resemble that character.

moreover, because we live in an increasingly globalized period, international relations now exist outside of governments.

think about this: if world war 3 happened, do you think Sup Forums would shut down?

probably not. imagine how odd it would be to be shitposting another country that you're literally at war with.

because of strange possibilities like this, i think its no longer possible to purely talk about governments when talking about international relationships.

in fact, i think the role of governments in international relationships is increasingly diminishing, and the russian governments brashness is merely the death knells of old control freaks struggling to maintain control of something that is becoming impossible to control.

information wars have reached the point that no news source is even credible anymore. the propagation levels have reached such a saturation mark that they are becoming ineffective.

You being intellectually dishonest if you think that the economic outlook of America is in any way comparable to that of Russian. Their economy constitute 3% of the global GDP an is almost entirely reliant on the price of oil.

Russia has net negative population growth. In the United States they are at a net positive (yes, even among whites)

Corruption is paltry in comparison to Russia where bribery is a daily occurrence for normal, everyday people. Even in political spheres it is far, far worse. Hell Putin has made himself one of the richest men in the world while serving in official capacities.

>russia and urss are the same

Oh yeah, circulating propaganda in an attempt to destabilise Western and European nations is such a minor thing.

Russia is still run by a Cold War KGB boss, so why not.

>hurr muh daddy muh oil
>has no idea who Robert Kagan, Bill Kristol, or Elliot Abrams, or the neocons are

Bush was literally too dumb to do "anything" without being told what to do

The entire Iraq War was a neocon project and had been planned for years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

You have to be retarded if you think Bush even knew where Iraq was. The fact is a cadre of ex- Trotskyite communists known as neocons ran the Republican party up until a few years ago.

youtube.com/watch?v=hg_lQNv6onw

>tfw burgers are ignorant of their own history

Holy fuck this user has proof of russian hacking

You got that evidence senpai? Cause all I've got is hearsay so far and I don't wanna look like a dumbcunt

>in fact, i think the role of governments in international relationships is increasingly diminishing
this is only true in first world countries where ngos and non government actors are actually allowed to operate and habe influence. any kind of international action that comes from Russia comes straight from the kremlin, it's an authoritarian regime

>Ever heard of the Iraq War hoax? The non existent weapons of Mass destruction the CIA claimed existed?
They didn't though. You can look at the documents before the war. They literally said "Saddam has some limited stockpiled chemical weapons, not mobilized, and the potential to produce more." It was Bush and Colin Powell who oversold the whole thing by twisting it into claiming he was actively building more right then

>The Gulf of Ton kin? Iran Contra? The coup in Iran in the 50s?
You do know those aren't things the CIA did by itself, right? Those were things the current administrations wanted to happen so they told the CIA to make it happen. Eisenhower wasn't sitting around one day when he got a telegram that Mossadeq was overthrown by the CIA acting alone and then just decided to role with it. He was planning that shit for months with the Brits who were the driving force for the whole thing.

Russia was systematically destroyed after Yelstin was elected and it was handed over to, and subsequently destroyed by jewish neoliberal billionaire oligarchs.

The only thing that stopped the economic carnage was Putin kicking out every billionaire that attempted to cease political power.

Their team is winning. It doesn't matter how or why.

russia is an authoritarian dictatorship with no functioning democratic institutions and a government controlled economy than the majority of russians have no opportunity to participate in. it's a 3rd world shithole with a population comprised entirely of criminals, addicts and future suicides

well its true, SA funds mosques that spread extremism to western countries, russia is not some big bad guy to America anymore they have a gdp similar to italy

are you retarded? are you implying dowry and courtesy are a religious belief?

well by the Russian shill's logic since both sides do it's fair game and can't be criticized

Also Russia has done so much more to destabilize European nations than the US. In the 3rd world I'll give you that both sides have an even track record of shit, but the US hasn't pulled anything close to what Russia is doing in Ukraine since 1950

>putin saved russia by eliminating democracy, free media and making everyone poorer
lmao look at Sup Forumss new official russian narrative hot off the press.

RUSSIA
>gays get beat up and publicly shamed

SAUDI ARABIA
>gays get publicly tortured to death

hmm realy activates my almonds

I'm implying that Christians love to gloss over all the stupid shit in their good book while criticizing other religions for what's present in their's.

You're all fucking kooks.

the funny thing is that it isn't. They've elected a billionaire with a Jewish family who's put more CEO's and billionaires in his cabinet and adviser positions than any other president. And Sup Forums thinks he's going to deliver them from the Jews and Wall Street plutocrats

Sup Forums's tied their identity to Trump so hard he could do anything and they'd spin it as a positive. He could come out with the Interracial Breeding Grounds Act of 2017 tomorrow and they'd come up with a way to justify BBC's breeding with white women as something they've always supported

international relationships as a word is being redefined. for instance, i could say that Sup Forums is an example of international relationships. or facebook. or twitter. or any place where people of different nations can speak.

because even if russia is a terrible government, i can talk to russians on Sup Forums. or on twitter. or facebook.

because i can directly talk to them, i dont need to look at RT or NYT or any media outlet. i can talk to directly to the people.

as a result the fundamental relationships of /people to people/ has changed. these are undeniably, relationships. and perhaps more meaningful than diplomatic/bureaucratic ones.

the russian government is causing shit, but russian citizens actively continue to denounce the actions of their government online. this russian generation can talk outside its borders, more and more easily. and when they reach power, their opinions will be globally colored. perhaps for the first time in russian history.

its not necessarily relevant right now, trump and putin are dinosaurs; but it will be soon, in twenty-thirty years.

russia has never been a powerful nation. they just have a lot of nuclear weapons and a self perception of entitlement to half of Europe. putin is still heavily engaged in a cold war with america, he wants those sanctions lifted and trump winning was his better option. but don't kid yourself, they still utilize subterfuge, espionage and propaganda all across eastern europe, as well as the us, though it's definitely less common than it was 39 years ago

Russias economy was on a constant climb up until the sanctions over Ukraine. Which is another excellent double standard.

Imagine how the US would react if Canada went through an FSB funded coup and allied itself with Russia.

>Deputy Director of CIA literally goes on national tv claiming Saddam has WMDs
>hurr it was just Bush guise XD

salon.com/2015/05/20/george_w_bushs_cia_briefer_admits_iraq_wmd_intelligence_was_a_lie/

just kys

The CIA were the ones pushing renowned Iranian liar, Ahmed Chalibi as "proof" Saddam had nukes

Unless you are younger than 15 there's no way you can forget how full of shit the CIA was.