I have watched countless hours of Sargon, Thunderfoot, Molyneux, Paul Joseph Watson etc.
But lately I tried to put my feet on the SJW shoes. Try and justify Social Justice as much as I can.
And it kinda worked. I'm no longer anti-SJW. I think I have a very good case for SJW.
Both SJW and anti-SJW have fallacies that the other side has got it covered but due to their ideological positions they cannot discuss it properly.
Although, I think SJW is slightly more correct. >b-but look at the crazy thumblr feminists They are usually underage dummies that spout nonsense.
Example: SJW: Pay Gap Anti: There is no PAY GAP!! SJW: Well there is one look Anti: Yeah but that's because they choose different careers SJW: Yeah but WHY do they pick different careers? Because of the overall gender roles Anti: NO NO NO, THE DIFFERENCES ARE BIOLOGICAL SJW: Then why every single year the number of women in STEM rises even with minimal effort in promoting? Anti: It's just a few SJW: how do you know? How can you generalize so easily? We lived in caves and bashed eachother in the head like it's nothing, look at the wild west, it was filled with white people and they were savages, today we have evolved x100, in each step there were people like you promoting status quo, and saying we reached the limit, but that was never the case. Anti: WE REACHED THE LIMIT BECAUSE I FEEL OK HAHAH
Mason Lopez
I never understood the hatred for femenism here. I would gladly trade LGBT's for femenism. Sup Forums hates femenism so much they worship the faggot Milo just because he bashes femenism.
Kevin Cox
Sure must be boring living in the Balkans..
Levi Martinez
Just because you are a retard doesn't mean SJWs are not illogical hypocrites.
Remember, all SJW subjects are really a way to push for communism.
Nathan Wood
plebit
>Yeah but WHY do they pick different careers? Because of the overall gender roles
You havent proven anything.
>Then why every single year the number of women in STEM rises even with minimal effort in promoting?
Red Herring, has nothing to do with a probable wage gaop which does not exist.
Further more, women receive more money from thne State, are favored in schools and spend generally 80% of an households income.
Dominic Howard
Is there a point to this thread or have you never TL;DR? BORING.
Parker Sullivan
It fucking is.
You're trying to conflate way too many things. If you know enough about SJW, you'll see judging it anyone who remotely resembles it is no different than conflating right libertarian with a national socialist because "they are both racist XD"
If you actually read their literature, it's solid, it's the actual red pill.
You miss the point, it's not who gets the money. It's about social evolution, the west is the living proof that we can go from primitive barbaric people into highly civilized individuals, the brain is extremely plastic and the tech around you, the culture, etc is the direct proof of that.
There are still disparaties that can be solved but JUST like any person in any point in history, you just stick to your status quo and yell "fallacy" and "not an argument".
You will never understand if you keep yelling, you must start to listen.
Jeremiah Robinson
>that strawman >that subtle "it's the current year" fallacy Did you just justify brainwashing yourself?
Women don't choose STEM and other higher paying careers not because of "gender roles," but because they choose based on the image the career has. Lurk moar and see how even Sup Forums portrays STEM fags, especially engineering.
The only gender roles or "omg sexism" here is that women internalize collectivism at a young age because for some reason they spend their play time socialising whilst boys spend it with sports or fighting. That extreme social bias makes them more perceptible and care more about stereotypes, which is also why they're more racist and sexist and try harder to prove they're not. This is why they're so SJW.
Lastly, the promotion isn't subtle. Women are twice as likely to find employment after attaining a STEM degree than men.
BTW, I've blown you the fuck out. Hang up your balls, drop your fallacy cards, sign out of Sup Forums and head back to tumblr where you now belong.
Cooper Walker
TL:DR Feminism/SJW are the correct causes, promoted by naive individuals which give it a bad name.
Asher Green
The case for SJW is that power to actually force the right to act in real life.
They are wrong but they have more consistent morals. Their opposition are usually more degenerate than them. Sup Forums is a more insidious form of subversion lf morality bexause it provides an illusion of freedom.
And its a good thing that SJWs are trying to shut down games and the internet. They are actually good allies to traditionalists because they will force true right wingers to let go of bread and circuses.
Bentley Thomas
>minimal effort in promoting
>MINIMAL >EFFORT >All these outreach programs >all these tv show >advertisement oriented toward woman >free shit for studying in STEM as a woman >many things I didn't even mention >ALL THAT >MINIMAL >EFFORT
Christian Jenkins
saging in a slide thread
>Greek intellectuals
Benjamin Smith
No, it's a naive cause for naive people fuelled by the fact that it was actually a positive movement until recently (early 80s), where people fail to realise when enough is enough and instead turn things to 11 expecting that to be double plus good superior morality.
It's naive. These people have a complete lack of understanding of virtue.
>It's about social evolution Progress for progress sake?
Our point is that SJW don't understand the right direction and instead want to continue in the same direction... Right off a cliff.
Luke Thomas
>There are still disparaties that can be solved but JUST like any person in any point in history, you just stick to your status quo and yell "fallacy" and "not an argument". Why do you think women would not be inclined to do other careers you fucking sexist? Why won't you let women choose what they want to choose (useless college degrees that require zero effort but make you "smart") en let those who want STEM jobs take STEM education. Stop screaming that there are less female STEMs because of "gender roles" because you are literally oppressing women when you say that.
Nolan Johnson
>You miss the point, it's not who gets the money. >It's about social evolution, the west is the living proof that we can go from primitive barbaric people into highly civilized individuals, the brain is extremely plastic and the tech around you, the culture, etc is the direct proof of that. >There are still disparaties that can be solved but JUST like any person in any point in history, you just stick to your status quo and yell "fallacy" and "not an argument". >You will never understand if you keep yelling, you must start to listen.
Well now your engaging in a totally different discussion buddy.
Furthermore, I am listening. I just think that what you are suggesting is wrong and I show evident and logic for my position.
If I call a fallacy, it is because it is what you are using and it invalidate your point regardless of what you prefer. I want your discourse to be better and to if possible convince me.
Cameron Mitchell
I'm not anti-SJW or pro-SJW. I simply don't give a shit. I do however look down on every single one of you faggots who get absolutely buttdevistated over every single thing any random SJW says in every far off corner of the internet. An SJW is just a troll who drinks beta tears, and as long as your keep filling their glass they'll keep winning.
Elijah Butler
>The only gender roles or "omg sexism" here is that women internalize collectivism at a young age
BECAUSE of existing gender roles all around the society, media, parents, school, entertainment, etc.
>Women are twice as likely to find employment after attaining a STEM degree than men. That's because they are trying to fill quotas, to SHOW women they can choose it too, because they aren't many in STEM, BECAUSE of social conditioning.
Thank you for proving my point.
Gabriel Morris
>minimal effort what are you talking about?
If women want to join STEM and go into higher-paying careers more power to them, but the fact is they are not. And it is not my fault that they are not and it is not the fault of society that they make 77 cents on the dollar. These are natural choices made by women, it's not wrong and it's not something that should be fought against.
SJWs fight against reality and they demand that it reflect their ideology and their viewpoint. That's why they are despicable individuals.
Robert Hughes
SJW are more pure yes, closer to traditionalists, non-capitalist, more in tune with nature and humanity.
Colton Ross
>BECAUSE of existing gender roles all around the society, media, parents, school, entertainment, etc. Those gender roles exist throughout time and throughout almost every single culture on Earth. Perhaps these are just natural differences in gender?
Ayden Bennett
> if we talk about it they win You can't be this stupid
Jayden Robinson
How do toi deal with the fact that marriage between a man and a woman is the onlt one that produces a stsble family. And homosexuality is completely destructive. I dare you to justify why fags should have the right to adopt children or men change their gender.
Cameron Watson
Yeah ok, pure b8
Nicholas Murphy
Yeah that's great and all but pay debts.
Dylan Morales
See Start with the Greeks
>It's naive I'm not seeing arguments >Progress for progress sake? Holy hell man, lets go back to 40 years ago and say "treat black equally? why? just for the sake of progrsess? lol so naive"
Or 100 years "what voting to women? why? just for the sake of progress? lol so naive"
200 years, "what stop slavery? fucking naive senpai"
S.T.A.T.U.S Q.U.O FALLACY
Ryan Flores
The frog's spoken and the shill must shut the fuck up.
William Bennett
i was sjw before becoming anti-sjw because i actually started to use my brain to think and reason all of this points that made an sjw in the first place.
people like you are fucking idiots, you base everything you think from bullshit propaganda from jewtube.
now get the fuck out of my board degenerate piece of shit
Jaxon Kelly
Except for the faggot and anti marriage part.
If you took the anti corporate and pro nature views of the SJW and dumped the rest and adopted the morals and social conservatism of the Right then you would be right.
Actually guess what that's called? National Socialism.
Eli Watson
no one on Sup Forums reads anything academic so no one will agree with you.
Angel Phillips
The wild west was actually pretty safe, OP. I think you've been taken in by historical fictions.
Wyatt King
Also if SJWs are truly anti capitalist why do they push women to work in corporate jobs instead of things like making their own clothes and providing anti consumerist alternatives to the wage slave life entirely?
Christian Thompson
Also in leadership positions, they are too few. BECAUSE OF SOCIAL CONDITIONING.
>Social conditioning doesn't matter THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING IN FRONT OF COMPUTER? GO FUCKING MURDER A DEER AND RAPE THINGS YOU FUCKING NERD.
Oh you're too afraid? Why? Oh yeah because of social conditioning, you are a gentleman and a scholar.
Parker Gonzalez
stop roleplaying and pay denbts
Lucas Butler
>BECAUSE of existing gender roles all around the society, media, parents, school, entertainment, etc Which somehow start taking effect at young girls at the age of 6? Ask yourself if this makes sense.
>That's because they are trying to fill quotas, to SHOW women they can choose it too, because they aren't many in STEM, BECAUSE of social conditioning. So because of something they can't control, men deserve double the difficultly in finding employment just to send a message to women. Sorry, this is fair to you... How? And why is this even necessary? Why not just accept unequal outcome in the face of equal opportunities, which is currently at risk from your moral hazard?
Thank you for proving my point.
You realise how badly you're being BTFO? Not even by me. SJWism requires fallacies, it's why pointing them out to SJWs always leads to "fallacies are just buzzwords" or attempts to belittle fallacies themselves. These people are habitually intellectually dishonest because they have dishonest intentions.
Why ignore my arguments and tell me I had no arguments?
Progress is great.. in the right direction. SJWs don't have the right direction, they're just picking the old one and marching right ahead blindly.
They are virtue signalling, because you're right no one can argue against emancipation or the equal treatment of demographics, but when you start arguing for special treatment to correct something that might not even be a real problem in competitive societies, you're arguing against our definition of equality. Equality of opportunity.
Jaxon Gonzalez
You've already cited all the sources that have clearly explained why you have to go back (to leddit).
Gabriel Bennett
>I have a good case fow sjw
> fictional dialogue
FUCK YOU STUPID RETARD.
Julian Mitchell
SJW always want to use force and coercion to promote their shit. (Laws, regulation, subsidies, disciplinary board, intimidation, etc.)
That's why they're annoying as fuck. They're also parasitical in nature since they don't produce anything. So yeah, they suck.
Charles James
I gave you things to work on. Can you reply with WHY they are fallacies? You can't. You know why? Because you're just another ideologue that bought into Sup Forums meme so hard that you actually believe it's memes.
>Being apathetic, uneducated about the environment I live is the superior way to live, I'll let my retarded neighbors decide for my life
RETARD ALERT DING DING DING
Levi Rivera
>It's a "Somebody do my thinking for me" thread
Evan Nguyen
What's the right direction?
Cameron Ramirez
Holy shit you're retarded
David Roberts
Literally this. Currently working at a botanical garden and literally everything is "we're making a push to get better representation of women botanists in wikipedia" or "look at this rare book by a WOMAN botanist isn't it great that a WOMAN did science?"
William Martinez
Bitch got upset how Chasing Amy ended Never got the deep dicking she needed
Grayson Mitchell
the right direction.
Dylan Perez
What's wrong with gender roles?
Men and women are different physically. They are different hormonally. They are different emotionally.
With all those differences, why should we expect equal interests, equal duties or equal function?
Roles provide guidelines for people to follow to function in society, create a structure for family units, social gatherings and relationships.
It's no coincidence that the most successful marriages are based on traditional values.
Grayson Scott
??? You can't refuse people a job because of their gender. it is literally illegal and has been since the 40's.
Kayden Moore
Pay debts
Kevin Flores
Also 8/10 of my coworkers are female cause non profit and affirmative action and an entirely female nepotic HR staff
Juan Adams
>something is illegal so it never happens
Andrew Flores
>Yeah but WHY do they pick different careers? Because of the overall gender roles
gender roles are vital for society to function
there's a billion arguments that can be made for them
Dylan Ward
It was never a good movement it was founded by people who said we should kill all men.
How does that mean it was EVER a good movement?
Elijah Fisher
>pay gag It's an earnings gap, you fucktard. And exists among numerous variables, not just gender, and if affects men too.
Why did I even bother to respond to this fucking bait.
Aaron Hall
Welcome to the real world. The only people who are non-SJW are the people are underestimate the overall societal influence.
That's a huge fallacy and I'll tell you why: Imagine living in 10kBC and find a time traveling machine. Go through various countries and jump few decades ahead. You go throu America, Africa, Asia, Europe for 5 THOUSAND FUCKING YEARS and see slaves, primitive behavior, low culture, women being second class citizens.
You' think "oh wait, that's how the world is, if after so many years shit's the same pretty much, it means stuff like democracy, equality before the law, no owning slaves etc will never work, I mean I have SO MUCH data to prove this duh"
Can you even fathom how retarded you sound?
John Wood
Fuck off you fucking nigger cuck leftie I fucking HATE YOU, I HATE THIS FUCKING COUNTRY, EVERYONE'S EITHER A FUCKING LEFTIE OR A FUCKING ANARCHIST FUCK OFF YOU INTOLERABLE CUNTS.
EVERYONE'S A FUCKING COMMIE HERE, HELP, I'M BEING CULTURALLY ENRICHED.
Hunter Williams
That's the question, isn't it?
Honestly, we need to get over this association with modernism and Nazism, specifically referring to the "no pain no gain" mentality. People must accept that some inequality, or pain, is necessary to provide relative incentives to allow others to excel and thus benefit society either through their labour or their taxes.
Social Darwinism and natural eugenics can no longer be terms or ideas that intellectuals scoff at, even people who aren't in the least bit naive. Although it's a bad idea to control our own evolution, the nature of survival and selection should be accepted.
Basically, there must be "evil" in the world, not just relative to good. You must understand: life is suffering.
First wave feminism, in theory, doubled the work force. Third wave feminism, in practice, halved the work force.
Joseph Flores
I don't hate feminism. It's the bullshit 3rd wave "DON'T ARGUE WITH ME BECAUSE YOU'RE A MAN AND IF YOU ARGUE THEN YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM" feminists that piss me off.
Liam Turner
>watching countless hours of ecelebs telling you their opinions
No wonder you got turned so easily, you're an impressionable idiot who let's other people do their thinking for them
Christopher Myers
>Then why every single year the number of women in STEM rises even with minimal effort in promoting? >even with minimal effort in promoting >minimal effort in promoting
Owen Young
I hate SJWs based on the fact that they RARELY shape their arguments on logic, mostly just emotion, which I see as a short-term fix for long-term """"problems""""
Jordan Adams
bait is too long 1/10
Jackson Baker
yes, goy, they're the logical ones, fighting for justice and equality and not to feel good about themselves sage yourself before you kill yourself
Cooper Nguyen
What are you even trying to say? There is no pay gap and even if there is a small one, it is mostly because females are statistically worse at negotiating. And there are certainly no females in STEM. I work as a programmer and there are maybe 10 ugly girls in a company with 250 coders and believe me when I say, that the company is trying their hardest to employ as many females as possible.
I'm sorry but there is really nothing to discuss about this.
The only thing that SJW have going for them, is that it might be true, that our society/culture is to some extent responsible for the choices most females make. But then again, what does it matter. Why do we need females in STEM? In general feminists seem to fetishize working. Why? I never understood why they wanna make a career. Most men hate work and only do it because they have to.
Jackson Murphy
No woman will accept a man who wants to be a homemaker. And most people don't want their children to be raised by some stranger at a daycare, unless they are degenerate. That bias against men is the reason why woman choose to work less hours to take care of their children. Then, if they do decide to go the hard charging career, they will be chosen before an equally qualified man. My daughter is studying computer engineering, and I have no doubt she will be hired before any male with the same degree.
Chase Cox
>homosexuality is completely destructive It isn't thought.
fag
That's what a normal person would say if YOU posted your own opinion and you'd be shocked that so few people understand and you'd feel superior.
But it's the type of double standards that you shut down so you don't have to think about them.
>I was x before and then I used my brains to become y >w-what? you want arguments lol no I just TOLD YOU I USED MY BRAINS
Literally every single ideologue can say the same about any ideology he doesn't support.
Good talk.
Eli Davis
pay denbts
Owen Edwards
>ImAJEu
Austin Reed
>Country invents gayness >calls me a fag
Loving every laugh, Popadopalous.
Lincoln Martin
>Strawman argument >Concern trolling >Lives in a failed socialist state >"both sides are retarded, so you should pick the one I support"
OP is a faggot. Don't forget to apply your perennial evergreen aromatic shrub to the email field.
Luis Hughes
NOT EVERY JOB IS RUN BY THE GOVERNMENT, PRIVATE CORPORATIONS HAVE THEIR OWN RULES ON WHO TO PAY AND WHAT TO PAY THEM, LEARN ABOUT FREE MARKET CAPITALISM FAGGOT
Luis Watson
The bait was pretty good to begin with, but as the post went on it became a little too obvious.
start would be a solid 8 or 9/10
by the end it falls to a measly 3 to 4/10
Good try though.
Joseph Diaz
OP is only right that SJWs are calmer debaters and spend more time being eloquent. Doesnt mean their ideas are right at all. Many anti SJWs are bad at arguing and fall into their trap.
The anti consumerist anti advertising and anti porn attitude that some of the more radical ones have is actually the only one of their good aspects.
But the homo, anti family and anti gender role aspects and obsession with equality as the highest virtue are completely destructive.
Really both the modern left and right have the truth divided and mixed with lies. You need to figure out which points are right on both sides
Jaxon Brown
...
Jacob Cook
You're a fucking idiot if you think any group of people is currently being systematically oppressed in western society.
I refuse to accept the ideals of perpetual victims and anti-white racists.
Brandon Taylor
Pay denbts and GTFO. Men are talking
Mason Edwards
>I used to listen to all of these people >but now I listen to these people instead.
But you've still yet to come up with an original thought.
Fucking useless.
Asher Richardson
>that fucking ID meme magic
Easton Parker
So you support gay rights but still call someone a fag. Clearly homosex still has a bad connotation in your mind for a good reason.
Nolan Williams
>Except for the faggot and anti marriage part. What kind of ethical metaphysics model you are using to justify that homosexuals are inherently bad?
Actually not even the Victorian England was safe, filled with open bigotry, abuse of the workers and whatnot, anything prior to now is a hell on earth.
Because they are still part of a capitalist country. SJW promote democratic socialism which works with a carefully controlled capitalist system, like Scandinavia
I literally laughed. Also why don't YOU pay denbts? You owe fuckton of money even when adjusted for size of the economy.
Christopher Kelly
faggot
Brandon Collins
This
Thank you based aussie
SJeWs believe that womyn are mentally the same as men anyway, thats unscientific and pure fantasy
Ethan Jackson
Men work on average more than women, but of course, i don't expect a Greek to know about work.
Chase Ward
>hurr durr sOciAl CoNdItIoNinG!!!!!!
No evidence that it is the sole factor. Biological differences are almost guaranteed to to be more revelent. You gotta be retarded to think men in construction industry is related to social determinism more than biological determinism or methodological individualism.
You remind me some insane Norvegian social worker I saw in a documentary who argued that 100% of differences between males and females are due to social determinism. Never heard anyone in a documentary say something so retarded.
>wage gap Yeah that model that supposedly compares salaries between sexes for every kind of jobs, degrees of risk, experience, education. etc. etc. It's fucking impossible, anyone who pretend to have calculated "the wage gap" without 57 flaws in his model is a lying asshole.
Brody Green
>You' think "oh wait, that's how the world is, if after so many years shit's the same pretty much, it means stuff like democracy, equality before the law, no owning slaves etc will never work, I mean I have SO MUCH data to prove this duh"
and it hasn't worked. all have resulted in the degradation of society. the world would objectively be a better place today if niggers were still slaves and women couldn't vote.
>b-b-b-but we have smartphones now
can someone explain why technological progress has slowed to a halt ever since we started promoting women in the industry and outsourcing jobs to street shitters and dog eaters?
Ayden Lopez
I'm on board for SJW because they still bring facts and evidence, whereas antis rely on conspiracies, pseudoscience, and fringe crap.
Oliver Davis
the longer I am on Sup Forums, the more blue-pilled I get
Brayden Davis
>SJW: Yeah but WHY do they pick different careers? Because of the overall gender roles So you want lower paid jobs to be paid as much as higher paid jobs.
That's not how the free market works. That's communism.
Luis Gray
>the number of women in STEM rises even with minimal effort in promoting >minimal effort >government and all stem programs throwing money and female only opportunities around for girls to get into stem
sounds like you're just an SJW and you never understood shit
Josiah Ortiz
modern sjw liberalism can essentially be boiled down to the desire to tear apart the society they live in. i personally view this as a negative, but if you're an entitled spoiled brat who thinks that society owes you something, i can see how sjwism would be appealing to you.
Xavier Wilson
Men and women are not equal.
Julian Watson
Because this board is a psyop intended to wear you out on redpill and mix truth with lies to shock you until you become completely demoralized and give up entirely.
Brayden Bennett
Not that user but I believe just enforcing good culutural values and to learn to just see everyone as a person. Destroying ideas that are against these ideals is a good first step (destroying islam) and give equal opportunity to everyone by abolishing affirmative action. I'm half indian and half hispanic and I think affirmative action is really unfair to whites. Almost all my friends are white and they have troubles finding jobs and are constantly made to think that they are bad people for what their ancestors did. Is that a fair society?
Isaac Jackson
RARE A R E
also based
Jack Hill
>the number of women in STEM rises even with minimal effort in promoting >minimal effort in promoting are you retarded?
Cameron Wood
>this thread
Wyatt Rodriguez
The fact that SJWs go on fear mongering only makes it worse for women for they are not accepted because of their deeds or merit but by sole virtue of being women. It makes women unable to stand up for themselves in negotiating higher wages for they are constantly told the myth of a sexist world pushing them down. They are told to whine and whine rather than to actually do something about it
Owen Baker
>Which somehow start taking effect at young girls at the age of 6? Ask yourself if this makes sense. No particular age, that's ship of Theseus fallacy tier.
It's an overall effect.
>So because of something they can't control, men deserve double the difficultly in finding employment just to send a message to women. Sorry, this is fair to you... How? And why is this even necessary? Why not just accept unequal outcome in the face of equal opportunities, which is currently at risk from your moral hazard?
Let me ask you this If you lived in a society that men were repressed from pursuing certain things and you could solve it by forcing some men into positions so it can lose the social "stigma".
It would be unfair for a time but 50% of the fucking population would have justice. It's not like the tiny fraction of women that would lose a position would be out of job.
You're being arrogant and absolute, you already PRIVILEGE, so it's easy to speak. Yeah I know everyone dislikes that word but it doesn't make it any less true.
This post is reaching limit, the next one is where I redpill you on Equality of Opportunity.
Carter White
I actually think Islam isnt as much of a problem as western decadence.
I dont like Arabs much but really theure more traditional than modern whites and its the Jews and corporations that are the real evil.
Some SJWs see this part lf the truth but fkr all the wrong reasons.
Benjamin Hill
This is pretty much accurate.
>A priori decide "gender roles are bad"
lel. Traditional institutions exist because they played useful roles in their societies. Some of these traditions are probably pointless, but a larger number (ex. having some sort of standardized family unit) are socially useful. SJWs start from the premise that equality of outcome is a necessary and moral end, and then work backwards to say "everything is bad if it doesn't promote this." Their ideal is impossible and doesn't contribute to productivity or social cohesion. Then they take it a step further and decide to actively reshape anyone who doesn't fit their historiographical ideal ("society must move towards perfect equality"). The entire movement is shaped by Maoism, although most aren't even aware of that.
OP is still a faggot
William Lewis
There's no reason to suport the neo-marxist "SJW" people. But then this is a bait thread isnt it?
Jack Hughes
Actually youre right in that privelege exists.
Anti SJWs fail because theyre actually still liberals.
Instead a traditionalist should embrace privelege and aocial hierarchy as a good thing instead of whining about reverse racism.