Who does it better?

Who does it better?

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youtube.com/watch?v=y-NeKMhc-ro
youtube.com/watch?v=hrn1ROq2XFk
youtube.com/watch?v=vqiAPslxrqI
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

I hate our /x/ sound

WHY

Classical Latin desu, none of that palatal BS

For clarification:
-Lines 1 through 4 delineate how to spell each sound on each language
-Lines 5 and 6 specify how ce, ci, ge and gi have softened in that language.
-Lines 7 and 8 specify how to spell the previous "soft" sound when used with vowels that don't soften it.
-The sounds may (and usually do) vary slightly between regions, but it is only noted when there's no clear standard.
-French and many Spanish regional dialects don't really have a ʎ sound anymore, but it still follows the specified where it used to be.

I personally believe that Italian is the most elegant on the way it handles things, followed by Spanish, then French, then Portuguese and Catalan.

You and me both. /h/ all the way.

>not wanting to add some spice to the language
This idiosyncrasies make things fun.

Here's a second version keeping the difference between /x/ and /h/ in Spanish in mind. I personally don't find this one as significant as the /θ/-/s/ split, because the former one does not merge two different sounds while the latter does.

While it varies between region, you can mostly go with the rule of thumb:

/θ/ and /x/ = Iberian Spanish
/s/ and /h/ = Latin American Spanish

learn basque, catalonian or galician if you want to get rid of it

many andalusians and canarians pronounce the /h/ and/or don't pronounce the /θ/

That is exactly the reason why I put the "while it varies between region" disclaimer.

As far as I know, Andalusians are precisely the reason we exhibit those two phonemes, since they were the first group of Spaniards to come to the Americas in large numbers.

>mfw hear /ʒ/

>mfw spaniards pronounce j like h.

Catalonian, the official language of independent Catalonia

/x/ is a pretty nice sound tho

you can add yeísmo

>h
still bad.

>no Romanian

Mexican

French and Latin sounds the best

French sounds like arab.
Portuguese is the language of the suebi,that's how it diverged from the eastern iberian languages

youtube.com/watch?v=y-NeKMhc-ro

who cares
rromani-an doesn't have half of those sounds

That's what this clarification is for:
>-French and many Spanish regional dialects don't really have a ʎ sound anymore, but it still follows the specified [orthography] where it used to be.

There's really no nice way of putting that information on the table without making a mess, and this is mostly a orthographic comparison rather than a phonological comparison.

>tfw I only just now realized I omitted a crucial word in the claritication.

Romanian works the same as Italian for the c and g stuff and does not have the /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ sounds.

I'm still mad because I had to make more research for it than for the rest (information was less available) only to find that out.

That sound exists too in basque

Why do you hate /x/? It's a cool sound.

romanian obviously

Neither Spanish nor french has the real LL sound, so theyre instantly desqualified

I don't hate it but I like it, and use it in both languages

That fucking catalan flag

i thought you were

Different anons.

In basque we've got the same sounds as in castilian, although there a few more in basque in some dialects.

Spanish does depending on the region, and since we're talking about orthography it doesn't really matter.

What is the matter?

I'm not implying anything, I just needed to represent the Catalan language.

You speak Basque? That language is interesting as fuck.

Yes I do. If you don't learn it when you are a child... Well, good luck lmao

I'm not entirely sure but I thought Mexicans used /x/

that's just the independentist flag not the official catalan one that has been used since idk, ever.

This one is going to be a lot less accurate and a lot less comprehensive.

A few caveats:
-French is a mess. I decided to ignore any trigraphs and the circumflex entirely, but even then there's a lot of stuff left out. It is too contextual for a simple comparative chart, so this is the best I could do.
-Information of Portuguese is a little contradictory, particularly regarding ã. It may be a difference between European and Brazilian Portuguese.
-While Spanish has diacritics á é í ó ú, I omitted them because they never change the quality of the vowel. In Spanish, vowels are sacred and never changing.
-I planned to include Romanian on this one, but the thread's going to die on me if I take longer so, sorry.

Not really, but it does vary by region. Areas with more influx from Spaniards with the north my exhibit /x/. That said, I always hear /h/ when speaking with Mexicans.

I see, sorry about that, but that's a shame given that the actual flag is boring as fuck.

You are comparing and eastern Romance language (Italian) with all western languages

>French sounds like arab.

Don't mind me, I'm just taking the bait.

It's a manly sound. No /dz/ faggy bullshit

Yeah, but since orthographic conventions have little to do with linguistic divisions, that's pretty much irrelevant. The spread of the written word and the spread of spoken language are two different beasts.

/x/ just sounds arab.

No brazil????

Good thing we have its even manlier evolution, /χ/

What do you mean by inconsistent orthography ?

/x/ sounds slavic/germanic

What about guttural vs alveolar R ?

guttural r's sound like how a retard would pronounce the master race rhotic sound, /r/

>/x/ just sounds arab.

it exists in scottish and celtic languages

IIRC it's pretty much just you, us and the Danes that use uvular R (dialects aside)

I guess this is obvious, but I should also specify that I'm ignoring diphthongs (and triphthongs) and semivowels for all languages.

Personally, for this one, I'm tempted to disqualify Spanish for the sole reason that hey didn't even have to try. Since the Latin long vowels shifted into clean diphthongs, they're left with a perfect system.

Italian, Catalan and Portuguese (sans nasals) are elegant and concise, while it's fun to see the french struggle to fit all their fucking vowels. This is a clear sign of Germanic influence on the language, if I ever saw one.

I really like how Catalan uses the grave accent for stressed open vowels and the acute accent for stressed closed vowels, while the Portuguese would probably have the best system if it weren't for their nasals. Also, I just noticed that I forgot to include stressed vowels with acute accent in Portuguese. The reason being that Portuguese was the first one I did, and I wasn't going to include stress indicators until I realized it was necessary.

Only at the end of a syllable. At the beginning of a syllable, it sounds terrible.

I considered using the flag for a second, but then I realized that would devolve into shitposting, so I abstained.

If you meant that the chart does not accurately represent Brazilian Portuguese, please explain.

Aside from the French R and the fact that Portuguese alone uses like 3-4 different Rs (for different areas of Brazil), there's not much to play with on that end.

I think /x/ fits slavic languages

Close your eyes and try to guess this language

youtube.com/watch?v=hrn1ROq2XFk

It sounds like a slavic language but i wouldnt be able to guess which one
But i also think its a trick question and it actually is some kind of disgusting creole

trick question? it is ugly portuguese

youtube.com/watch?v=vqiAPslxrqI

That's not Brazilian portuguese

meu deus kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
wtf eu amo portuguesas agora

Portuguese maybe?

It's a matter of taste, but I guess it does fit Slavic phonology, at least more than it does Spanish.

I knew before even clicking, but I was surprised that I could actually understand what she was saying. So far, every time I hear European Portuguese, I'd assume they were speaking Russian until I heard an specific word that tipped me off (like "mais" or "porque"). With this girl I'm actually understanding as if it were Brazilian Portuguese (so, better, but not perfectly). I don't know if I've gotten better or if she's just not mumbling as many vowels.

Here's one for sibilants and affricates. I dropped Catalan on this one to focus on Old Spanish (represented by the old Castilian flag). The reason being that Spanish is the language that has changed the most when it comes to sibilants, as well as one of the ones that has updated the spelling the most.

I think this one is quite incomplete, so beware.

>forgot picture

I'll take the time to clarify the color coding for Spanish:
Yellow is for places with seseo, red for places without it, and sky blue for Rioplatense Spanish.

>Jey jello, jow are you

Almost there.

>Jey, jelou. Jau har yu?

shameless self bump

This is a good thread

I honestly didn't notice any difference between the Buenos Aires accent and the Patagonian accent.

At most, it was the lack of voicing for the Rioplatence y/ll, but I thought that was a young people thing, not a Patagonia thing.

isto é português ALGARVÉU, tu nao me enganas com esses E's, moça

>S and Z the same sound
Kill yourself imediately.

>Yellow is for places with seseo, red for places without it, and sky blue for Rioplatense Spanish.
Fernando pls.

Damn, this time I posted the image before the actual post.

This is the last bit of autism I wanted to leave on this thread, glad to see I could make it before it died.

Pronouns that are underlined are pronouns that change the conjugation of the verbs from the original originating from Latin.

I hope everyone is smart enough to figure out the color code (this time).

I looked through many different Romance languages/dialects this time and tried to pick the ones that were sufficiently different. Leonese, Gelician, or Occitan, for example, do not differ enough to warrant a spot. Romansh would have been an interesting addition though.

Some final caveats for that image:
- I picked the pronoun that is more commonly used or the standard in the region. That doesn't mean regional or situational alternatives do not exist.
- Romanian seems to have T-V distinction in third person, which I didn't include because that would have made the chart an even bigger mess.
- I know I fucked up by putting Catalan between Spanish and Portuguese and not between Spanish and French. Likewise for Romanian, which actually should be the first and next to Italian. Imagine they are on the correct position.
- Take Quebecois French and both Brazilian and European Portuguese with an extra grain of salt. They all seem to be on a transition period of reorganization of pronouns. Quebecois particularly, has somewhat little documentation even on French sources.

My problem with the "th" Z sound is I only find it tolerable as the first or last letter of a word.
Thielo, Raith. It complentely ruins the word ending ción to me. The Despathito effect.

TS, PS, DZ, or the English Z as in Zip, would be better

only Caribbean Spanish speakers pronounce it like H. The normal Spanish J sounds like the German CH in Auch or Nacht. The word "Loch" in German and Scottish (as in Loch Ness) has that sound.

thats the Argentine pronounciation of Y and LL (for people older than 30, the youngest generations pronounce them as SH, devoiced)

Why do you people refuse to switch to english permanently and leave those primitive dead languages in the past?

There's more to language than communication. Most of the music I listen to is in English, but every now and then I listen to music in Spanish because I miss (as in a craving) music with real thrilled and rolled rs, real T´s that are pronounced, clear open vowels, hard J.

Only one language is like eating the same thing every day.

>primitive dead languages
>Spanish has just as much if not more native speakers than English
>Romance languages are descended from the language that actual Roman citizens spoke, while English was spoken by mere Romaaboo peasants at the outskirts of the Empire.

I know this is bait, but you could at least try m8.

ajajajajajajajajajj americANO

English is the language of business, and the language of sophistication. Its not "romantic" no.

>Y and LL are already devoiced in two generations
interesting, that was a bit fast. would you say that the same will happen with what happened to J? where it finally ended at /x/ (or /h/)?

France does it better as always

no, the only big change I notice is "Sho" for Yo instead of the older pronounciation among the youngest generations. I think there may have been a strong tendency towards this for a long time, and the change is that it stopped being stigmatized.

And S becomes the English H in words like España (Ehpaña) or Bosque (Bohque). But I think this second thing is very very old.

Sophistication is what French or Italian sound like.

>Its not "romantic" no.
Yeah, not in any sense of the word which you're misinterpreting.

English is indeed the language of business, but I'm sorry for you if that's all you care about.

>would you say that the same will happen with what happened to J?
That's very unlikely given that the /x/ phoneme is already in use.

The situation in Rioplatense happened because both /ʃ/ and /ʒ/ were non-existent in standard Iberian Spanish by that time, while /ʎ/ was lost in almost the entire Americas and those two were apt replacements. Fast devoicing also makes sense since Spanish seems to be averse to voiced sibilants for some reason.

I won't deny that French orthography is very aesthetic, but I think that the consistency and coherence of the Italian system has got to be the best option.

>c and g are getting palatized before e and i
>let's add an h to signal a stop of palatization
(French does this same thing with by the way, to avoid saying /si/ instead of /ti/, but then that's inconsistent with their use of h to palatize "ch" into /ʃ/)

>what about if we want that palatized sound with the other vowels
>palatize it by adding an i before the vowel

French use of "ç-" and "ge-" are serviceable, but using "qu" for /k/ seems backwards when the whole point of the letter Q in Latin was the /kw/ sound. And that's not taking into account the fact that some "que" and "qui" combinations do actually use the /kw/ sound and there's no way to tell from Spelling.

>And S becomes the English H
That thing happens all over Latin America and Spain, and it's heavily stigmatized. Which I find it funny, since the natural sound change that goes /s/->/h/->O is how we got silent "h" in Romance in the first place, to say nothing of how French words like hôpital lost their /s/, how we got from Sindhu to Hindu and then all the way to Ind(ia), or how Hundo Asuras are cognates with Persian Ahura Mazda.

good thread lad

I was trying to make another chart comparing the evolution of the original Latin vowels into the current vowel systems on , but think I bit off more than I could chew this time. I may scale it down a bit and try again tomorrow.

I also wish I could do something similar for the Slavic family, but I really wouldn't even know where to start.

Thanks mate.

Very interesting thread. Don't let this die.