Why cant they get along?

why cant they get along?

Russia is just a big North Korea. Even Brazil has a bigger and more prosperous economy.

Because winners can't like other winners.

Because Russians are untrustworthy, warlike and devious. Unlike the US.

lol

This is going in archive of "The American" posts, no matter if there is irony involved.

Friendship requires reciprocity and there's nothing that Russia can give us.

a truly American response

To be fair, this is why the relationship with Continental Europe is also breaking down.

God Bless

bullies usually don't get along

Russia is an essentially aggressive wasteland that gravitates towards tyranny and dictators, while US is the greatest example of a country that bases its governance on the principles of democratic rule and that tries to maintain the status quo on internationals relationships, thus participating in the overthrowing of despotic regimes

Because Russia is afraid that it'll lose its ability to defend itself if it cooperates with NATO and the US doesn't exactly want to let them in as is

good goy

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>imagine being this naive

t. Russian diaspora

Because we're constantly competing for influence by any means necessary.
Also jews.

How is that an American response? It's both sober and accurate.

not an argument

>friendship is about what I can get from people
Wew lad

Not sure if irony or not

american history is just siding with whoever gets us the most benefits

Neither is what you posted

I am completely fine with US citizens.
You should've asked the guys from both governments, OP.

That's essentially the history of all countries. Wishy-washy sentimentalism in foreign policy is very rare.

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But France helped America in the revolution because we were special.. R-right?

>implying this is unique or even undesirable
Stop being a retarded cunt

In the past, it was for economic benefits. Since 1945, we've aligned ourselves for security at the expense of economic benefits. Now the pendulum is switching back to aligning for economic benefits.

During our last era of 'dollar diplomacy', we had a good relaitonship with Russia because they had a growing population that could consume our grain exports. Plus, they were in many ways opposed to the British Empire, which was an existential thread of sorts to us prior to the Great Rapprochment. Nowadays, their demography is less than favorable for consumption, so there's not as much to be had from being their friend.

It really is that simple.

but the governemnts are the legitimate representatives of the respective citizens

"No."

It doesn't need to be true if enough people believe it

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Paranoia. Mostly on the Russian side.

Why can't team plasma and team aqua get along in the pokeverse?
Why can't neymar and cavani get along at PSG?
Why can't Brooke and Donna Logan get along in the Bold and the Beautiful?

Answer: no one knows but conflict between the top dogs is always inevitable

completely justified paranoia

I dont get it

My sides. The Russian government is only a legitimate representative of Russian inability to change anything about their government.

We try

pic is people wanted for espionage in the U.S>

the four whites are Russian/working for them

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Like 80% of Russians support Putin

Coming from their polls which are done by government run organizations.

>80% of population support Putin
>he actually trusts numbers from Russia

What you have to learn is that you can't trust any statistic that comes from there or concerns Russia. Every figure that can be manipulated will be to sway the opinion in Russia's favour. Even if you ask the common Russians, what does it mean they "support" Putin? They can be bydlo with a hard-on for stronk president, they can be a common apolitical Russian who says he supports Putin just to be on the safe side just like he did in commie times, they can be ones who dislike Putin but don't see any alternative.

I am not refering to elections. Surveys done by western institutes confirm that majority of Russians support Putin

Not with this attitude. Friendship encourages trade and diplomacy. Saying you have nothing to gain immediately and disregarding the potential for mutual benefits makes you shortsighted.

There's nothing to be gained from either trade or diplomacy from Russia right now. Russia doesn't have any commodities that the US needs and it doesn't have a market for the goods we export. Ergo, no meaningful trade relationship can exist.

One thing USA would benefit from is military cooperation with Russia in fight against international terrorism

>>right now

Like I said, shortsighted.

we cooperate to an extent with that

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>Surveys done by western institutes confirm that majority of Russians support Putin

They are still asking Russians who are not known for telling people what they really think.

How can you be friends with people whom you have to constantly suspect of wanting to fuck you over?

Also, USA isn't capable of removing regimes in middle east if Russia doesn't allow it any more

Then how do you know what Russians really think?

International terrorism has been demoted on our priority list, and the few times we've attempted to work with them in the past, the results have been mixed. The fact is that the kinds of terrorism each state targets is very different. This is fine. Russia has its own problems with homegrown Chechen extremists and that's accpetable for tehm to focus on. But we're never gonna get them to go all in on in Africa.

And when benefits emerge, then a friendship can as well. I get that Canadians are naive, but international cooperation doesn't happen just because it's what you're supposed to do. There have to be incentives for both sides, and right now there isn't much of an incentive on either side.

We're going isolationist, man. I dunno why you Europeans still think we're going to be internationally involved when we've told you to take care of NATO yourselves.

>We're going isolationist, man. I dunno why you Europeans still think we're going to be internationally involved when we've told you to take care of NATO yourselves.
Because your military-industrial complex wont allow it. For all his isolationist Talk, Trump sure did increase the military budget

Because Russia doesn't like Israel, and Israel is our friend.

You have to start somewhere, trading with each other builds trust and puts money in your pocket. Let's not put 'suspect of wanting to fuck you over' as a one sided agenda.

If you want to have good relations you need to start somewhere and not constantly expect the other to capitulate to your demands.

>Because Russia doesn't like Israel
What gave you that idea?

And yet we've reduced our presence in the Persian Gulf every year since 2015. We don't need to wage wars to keep spending on military hardware. And we don't need to participate in NATO or topple middle-eastern regimes so Eurocucks and Asians can get easy oil to wage wars.

We're refocusing our forces to the Pacific and Latin America. Europe is no longer our problem.

Again, shortsighted. You will never have an incentive to improve relations if you don't start somewhere. Trade is always mutually beneficial. There will always be a demand for a good in one country that another wants.

You mean to tell me there's absolutely no benefits to America from trading with Russia? Since when did you guys hate money?

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Youa are literally participating in NATO exercises right now.

>Trade is always mutually beneficial. There will always be a demand for a good in one country that another wants.
But there isn't you stupid Canuck. What does Russia mainly export? Oil and natural gas. What does the US export? Oil and natural gas.

You're talking about the equivalent of a trade relationship existing between Iran and Saudi Arabia. It doesn't exist now and it's highly unlikely that it'll ever exist in the future.

NATO exercises are meant to scare Russia

yes. Thats why you will stay active in NATO

You don't even know your own countries most valuable exports. Google your exports. Machinery including computers is twice your exports then oil. Guess what Russia imports most of? Machinery.

That's just it, you can't know, end of story.

>You have to start somewhere

Why? As the Yank said already, it's just not profitable. Also, Americans tried to have good relations with Russia back in the 90s and there was American investment into Russia. It all ended up stolen because rule of law in Russia was a novel concept. Nowadays, do you think Putin and his watchdogs will allow Americans to own anything important inside Russia? If one side plays the game as zero-sum the logical step is to play it that way with them.

We really won't. If we were serious about NATO, our troop deployments would have increased substantially in 2014. Hell, we would have coordinated a NATO strike force during the incursions into Georgia by Russia in 2008.

Neither of those things happened. For all intents and purposes, NATO is an institution that survives on institutional momentum and is slowly being disengaged from on our end. When the next round of BRAC happens, maybe it'll finally sink in that we don't have any interest.

>Hell, we would have coordinated a NATO strike force during the incursions into Georgia by Russia in 2008.
How is that related, Georgia is in not in NATO.

And USA will remain dedicated to NATO; since it gives them leverage over EU countries

Russia and the USA is an unstoppable autistic force meeting an unsolvable rubiks cube.

How is it not profitable? Russia imports the most machinery and America exports the most machinery. Do you guys not like money and hate economic leverage? That's how good relations start, through trade.

>they can be ones who dislike Putin but don't see any alternative.
most people actually like this, even me.

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You vastly overestimate the value of that 'leverage over EU countries'. For one thing, only a handful of NATO partners in Europe have increased their defense spending commensurately. What's the point of even having the alliance if most of the members don't have a properly-funded military? For reference, Germany isn't even in the top 5 naval powers in the Baltic Sea. Why should we continue to have any sort of alliance with a country like this?

Second, NATO requires the US to outlay men and materiel to defend a bunch of countries that are so appreciative that they use the money they don't spend on NATO to simply buy Russian natural gas and oil instead. Who's the top offender in this category again? Oh yeah, it's Germany.

What's even the point?

As of right now, EU has no functional military, so EU countries have to rely on USA for defence and security. This gives USA a huge levarage over an economy that is as big as their own.
If USA was to leave NATO, EU would be forced to create its own military, which would completely remove American levarage

you underestimate the deterrence factor NATO gives the U.S.

also this, the EU might actually become a threat to the U.S. if they were allowed to have a military

>hate economic leverage

Again I ask you. Do you think Putin would allow anyone having leverage of any sort over him? In Russia, politics trump economy and power trumps even politics. Then there is the issue of money. What are Russians going to pay with? Their money has been monopoly money for quite some time and any company doing business with Russians risks being a victim of the political tug of war.

Oh yes, the mighty EU economy. Such a vibrant place with a bright future of economic growth ahead!

Oh wait, consumption-driven growth is basically impossible for the next 60 years in the core EU state, Germany.

The EU will never be a threat militarily. Maybe France, the UK, or the Scandis might field a regionally-effective military, but the rest of Europe doesn't have enough 20 and 30 somethings to recruit into a meaningful force.

Currently, EU countries buy lots of apple products and use google. If EU wasn't dependant on USA, this could change very quickly and EU could develop its own digital sector, like China

>German flag
>Behind the keyboard sits a Russian

Cool, have fun with that. Social media primarily makes its money off advertising to young consumers, which the EU has a startling shortage of. There's a reason why 'Facebook for Pensioners' never took off.

Because it's mutually beneficial. Both sides would have economic leverage over each other to maintain good relations because both stand to financially profit from it. It's money, everybody loves it. What is Russia going to pay for the machinery with? Dunno maybe the euros they are getting from selling oil to Europe maybe? Profit can be had but it seems that anti Russian sentiment is so strongly ingrained into the American imagination.

>Cool, have fun with that
The decision is not up to you or me. USA consideres its levarage over EU important, that's why it remains engaged in NATO

We don't want Euros, Canada. We want dollars. Hell, Canadian dollars are even more sought after than Euros here in the US.

You can continue believing that if you want.

>UK flag
>Behind the keyboard sits a Paki

>buy lots of apple products and use google

Because they are dominant on the market, not because they are American or because Americans have leverage through NATO. For the record, 17% of computer users have Avast as anti-virus, 10% have AVG. Both companies are Czech. The key is not driving Americans out of NATO, it's providing an environment where companies like this can exist.

>russian flag
>behind the keyboard sits a polar bear

You know in America there are places that can literally exchange one type of currency for another.

They are dominant on the market because they have access to the EU market. They are not dominant in China because China keeps them out. If EU wanted, it could do the same, to allow the development of European alternatives

>UK flag
>behind the keyboard sits a paki

Yes, and? That doesn't mean there's extensive demand for Euros from US businesses. Tourists buy Euros. Businesses stick to yuan, canadian dollars, and pesos.

You get euros, you want dollars you go on forex and sell your euros and get dollars. Sure you lose some money on the exchange, but that's the cost of doing business and you should mark up the value of your product in anticipation. That may increase the cost of doing international business but it does make it unprofitable to trade internationally in foreign currencies.

>actually advocating protectionism as a vehicle for development

Ah, you are retarded, that explains a lot

Do you see Russia bending over backwards to save its economy from the sanctions? How is THAT leverage working out?

>euros for oil

Used to buy arms, old people's pensions and so on. Also, price of oil is low atm and Russia is poor as fuck.

Nice whataboutism mate

The best part is that he sees the EU as somehow having equivalent power to the overbearing Chinese police state.

Everybody does that. Why do you think the laws agains Google or Apple in EU happend, or the VW scandal in USA

Because politicians are retarded enough to play that game even though it's about as anti-consumer as it gets.

Because America and Russia never cultivated good trade relations. Just because Russia doesn't cave into another countries demands they are somehow in the wrong for not capitulating as well?

Your view is entirely American-centric.

I'm only trying to say that good relations can be cultivated through trade, where both economies become entwined and where both sides can profit from each other. For America to say they have nothing to gain from Russia now therefor it does not need to cultivate good relations is shortsighted.