How come Spain wasn't able to colonize their American territories like England?

How come Spain wasn't able to colonize their American territories like England?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Argentina#Spanish_colonial_era
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

>implying that cucking everybody isn't a far better way to pacify a population
Spain's the original bull and the Amerindians are the cucks.

Spain DID colonise their American territories, it's just that their colonies in the Americas weren't settler colonies like the British had.

Because they were retarded.

1 billion niggers and amerind in land they conquered, 50 million Iberian's only, Spains system of colonization should never be implemented.

Single men seeking riches and glories went to Latin America, whole families escaping poverty or religious persecution went to the United States and Canada.

Spanish people to a large extent hoped to get rich then go back to Spain, British people wanted to build a new home in the Americas.

Spain had a very primitive economic system of slavery, England had an economic system of human capital and land development through programs and land grants, obtain wealth through taxes and tariffs while controlling the supply of commodities.

Britains slavery wasn't the sole creator of wealth, nor the purpose in most of its colonies, simply 1 economic factor.

Read Civilisation by Niall Ferguson. I'm just on the part where he goes through why NA did so well compared to SA. It's basically that the Spanish just plundered the shit out of their territories since there was over £100 billion (by today's prices) worth of silver in one mountain alone, plus thousands of tonnes of gold that the Incas and Aztecs had, whereas the settlers in the USA had it pretty hard, but had to cultivate and own their own land with no feudalism or barons, etc. which lead to a property-owning population (as opposed to the UK with only the most wealthy owning land), which lead to representative democracy.

Slavery was forbidden in the spanish empire.

Were the natives in Mexico and South America more resistant to disease?

Retarded, the sole reason is that they brought too many negroids and didn't kill the natives, only reason Latin America isn't like NA.

Why did you all leave these colonies?

Africa is an unbelievable shithole now, and its inbred retards are leaking into Europe.

Spain became frail on late 19th century then with various revolts on their colonies and the Spanish American war was the end of it all.

now that's rich

Read your second paragraph and that's the answer

SA used to be majority white, Negroes immigrated.

It's a shithole because you left.

the cape was majority white, perhaps the vrystaat at one point, but neither the transvaal/natal or the whole of SA was ever majority white.

Well, you can take logistic matters as the first glance. Back in the day they didn't have the panama canal, so apart of the central america territories the spanish often had to make a huge journey in order to reach the most longinquous parts of the empire, going deep south in order to reach the western coast at the south american continent.
While the portuguese, french, british and dutch had only to reach the east coast, making an easier journey than they used to.

At a second glance, there's the thing between an settler colony and a colony for exploring goods. The climate played a huge part on this, once tropical good were very expensive in europe by the time, as they didn't have the proper weather for cultivating some shit. So they took the real profit by exploring the resources rather than properly colonizing the land

this
and this also this Basically the anglos went to stablish themselves wether the (first) spanish conquistadores just wanted to plunder and take all the gold emeralds and silver they could.
Also they wanted to make history by conquuering civilizations like the aztecas and the incas.
Also is important to note, that the catholic church saw natives as humans but more like (lost souls) that should be saved from ignorance instead of just being anihilated. This is not something good, because most catholic missions treated natives as slaves to build more missions and to farm the land etc etc.
But not everywhere it was the same like this retarded faggot says because in my country for example we killed all them natives. Argentina also tryed to kill them all but it was just to big. Chile attempted to do it too.

Also, and this is very important. When the US was fighting for independece, we, as in sauth america, were also fighting for indepndence.
But after the US won its independence first, they started to sabotage all and every diplomatic attempt at stablishing a a south american union. especifically during the cuban meeting, can´t remember the actual year.

So our George Washingtong, aka Simón Bolivar, mad as fuck, tryed to create a south american union anyways, and almost succeeded, but there were a lot of internal struggles for power.
Simon created what was called La Gran Colombia, that united venezuela, colombia, peru, ecuador, and parts of central america and the caribean. But every one of these "states" or "provinces" had a local leader, and they did not want their power and influence to be vanished in the air under some idealistic fag like Simón, so they rebelled and left the union.

IT could have been marvellous, just imagine the entire america as one united empire
but no, better the US have half the continent and use the other half as cheap labour, drougs and a market to sell their products

>massive aristocratic meltdown killed Gran Colombia
>but it was the US lol

top laff

Americans had niggers too. The only place with few Indians and huge imports of niggers like America would probably be Brazil.

The Andes and Mesoamerica just had a lot of Indians and half descent societies that could not simply be slaughtered.

Divide and conquer was the game Spain was playing at, and that required allies and assurances which one does not achieve with wholesale slaughter which would hardly be feasible anyhow.

But yeah also the Spanish were shitty colonizers.

>imagine the entire america as one united empire
Sorry, I'd rather not have an Empire full of mestizo mudskins.

Spain wanted material wealth from their colonies, Britain wanted living space.

no really, slavery is outlawed by the Spanish government. They even took part in hunting down Moorish pirates that took part in the Islamic Slave Trade

No, that was when the Criollo aristocracy saw the unwillingness of the US to cooperate with a united south america and thus the weakness of Simón.
US bassically offered during the cuban talks to leave alone all the greedy oligarchs only if they did not follow with that silly idea of a south american empire.
Also they offered to buy some things like coffe or bananas or guano just to put some extra money on these oligarchs pockets.

AJAJAJAJAJAJAJA

>implying that is not exactly what you are right now

at least my country is 90% white brah

>South American thinks he's white
Why do they all keep doing this?

>60%

I can feel the tears rolling down your cheeckbones brah...
Don't feel bad, you can come and live here, but only if you are white

The New Laws
Habsburgs were fucking cucks

now look at it, a crime laden shithole full of filthy mutts and niggers

I will answer you with the same answer I gave your girlfriend

AJAJAJAJAJAJAJA

>implying that is not exactly what you are right now

at least my country is 90% white brah

>Urugay
>white
pick one

>when the decolonisation hits hard

The Spaniards burnt their heretic nutcases. Our rulers gave them almost an entire continent to play with. With hindsight, the "Pilgrims" would better have been got rid of with a short sharp auto da fe.

t. Ingleson en Andalucia

How did this happen then? Countries like cuba were part of the spanish empire and they received more slaves than the US did.

>You went backwards instead of forwards
This chink, the absolute madman

why don't you circle the mudskins brah?
oh right, you can't lol

this a catholic school in a conservative and traditional town in uruguay. This is the future of my country.

Would you mind showing me a pic of yours?


that is what I thought...

and yeah, just read about cuba's history. they were indeed importing hundreds of thousands of slaves while under spanish rule. maybe you guys should learn your history.

>Why do people keep smuggling drugs when it's banned?

At least they didnt get a gorillon niggers

Thanks Portugal

Spain didn't really wanted to colonize the Americas, they just wanted to ship all valuables they could find back to Europe and then get jewed by the Brits.

Portugal itself only tried colonizing Brazil when the royal family ran away from Napoleon, which is Brazil managed together while most of Spanish colonies broke down into a bunch irrelevant countries.

You're making me jealous. My daughter's school is similar, but is unusual for our area. I deliberately sent her to the monjas. I really toy with the idea of going over there. My wife has an uncle in some arse-end of Argentina, so it's not so unrealistic a prospect at all.

>maybe you guys should learn your history
Maybe you should learn our history before talking like you know shit about it

All points and other posts in , but also look at the fucking size of Spanish America. The English (later the Brits), had a sliver of coastal North America to colonise, while Spain had most of the continent. Combine that with the good gender balance, incentives for owning and cultivating land and the whole freedom from European woes thing and you've got one hell of mix.

You do know it was just like the black market of today

no pun intended

Well if you are looking for a quality education mixed with good christian values and a loving comunity you should definitly come home, white man... but it will cost you a little bit, since most catholic schools are private of corse.
But there are no mudslims over here, nor wild feral niggers, our niggers are very few and they have integrated pretty good.

You are going to cry when you see how much taxes they take from you tho, that is what is killing us, the jobs are not abundant and the commies in gov keep increasing the taxes in order to keep the welfare state

...

>Muh AMISTAD film

GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU FUCKING AMERIcuck, YOU GOT KEKED BY THE JEWS WHO WERE THE REAL SLAVERY DEALERS YOU FATFUCKS GO AND DIE IN A NIGGER GANGRAPE YOU FUCKING SCUM.

tfw beady master race

...

...

Leyes de Burgos
Nuevas Leyes

>american education

Gracias por la informacion! Interesting about the taxes. I'm a UK and Irish citizen, though, and could probably arrange a solution quite easily. I just work online, freelance, so I'm flexible. If anything, I bring money INTO whatever state I inhabit, and just export an intangible service. Governments should PAY me to live in their jurisdictions, hehe!

Are you all part Italian in Uruguay, by the way, just like over in Buenas Aires?

Anglos colonized a territory populated sparsely by a few thousands of hunters gatherers that were easily pushed out throughout a few hundred years. The thirteen colonies were just a line of coastal towns guarded by some forts. THEN, after independence, and having had 200 years to create strong and large enough settlements to provide for the genocide effort at a close distance did the United States start out to move West and wipe out the nomads that had previously been pushed there.

Spaniards colonized a territory with a population of up to 50 million people, including an Ocean that wasn't directly facing Spain and thus needed to settle for peace quickly, as to not go bankrupt by attempting a genocide that would have taken them a hundred years. In the area of the Patagonia, which was populated by nomads like those of the United States, there WAS a genocide.

Moreover, Britain is protected by virtue of being an Island, so it could afford to go at it slowly. Spain is surrounded with enemies on every side. Spain couldn't afford to send large military forces into the Americas or to send too many families to populate the Americas, or it would have ended up empty and annexed by France, so it basically HAD to send only "leftover single men", as to not decrease its population too dramatically.

Also, consider that hindsight is 20/20. Nobody 500 years ago could have predicted democracy or industrialization, nobody could have predicted 200 years ago that vaccines would allow populations in tropical areas to explode, nobody 100 years ago could have predicted the green revolution and you would have to be retarded to believe that Spain should have colonized land with the wellbeing of rebellious separatist colonies in mind. And those are the things that made the Spain's colonization plans a "bad idea".

Maybe has something to do with weather? Or lots?

Lol most people is 100% european, not only Italian, but from all over europe. Hell, we even have towns and villages that are russian or swiss or german and they still dress and live like menonites.

then there is like a 30% that is mixed to some degree with africans or natives, but most of this mixing happened when the natives where still alive and the niggers where still niggers, like 200 years ago. So most mixed people are between 1% and 50% max

Nowadays there are almost no niggers and no natives, aka we absorbed them into our gene pool.

IT is important to note that in Uuruguay we do not have the concept of ethnicity, we are not black or white, we are just uruguayans.

I only shitpost with the come home white man meme (it is true tho) but we are not racist nor retarded and cucked europeans are.

We are one of the few examples of a multicultural society done right (take notes, schlomo)

Sure, I know it's Euro, and there are a few specific type communities - that's just like Argentina (my Italo-Argentine dentist has a Russian wife, for instance), and I don't really care about "mixed" stuff, I just wanted an idea of the "typical" Uruguayan - is he still mostly Spanish, or is he almost guaranteed to have an Italian grandmother? i just ask out of ethnological curiosity.

Traditionally america has led a warlike existence. A fascist state built on immigration!
-keep birth rate high.
-high birth rate means more soldiers.
-replenish population with european immigrants.
-from foreign immigrants you keep intelligence and interests in their regions.
-formation of the middle class and business commerce.
-fill the citizens with hate and ignorance towards certain crowds. This strategy allows easier manipulation of the political arena.
-repeat over and over.

Thats all it took to build the U.S. 240 years of it. The spanish didnt think like that. They did multiply but many latin americans cared very little for whatever was happening in europe.
This is where the legend of america being founded by morrocans come into more common misunderstanding. It just means that the southern spanish who came here and settled these lands were darker than the germanic spanish. And had a more moroccan phenotype, moorish skinned. While spain was being conquered by the hapsburgs so many nobility came here losing all interest to the germans. So they cared very little about their old world politics they were more interested in its academia. They colonized all the territories but did nit believe in big govt the way the 13 colonies did.

Also, note that there are two examples of British colonies in territories similar to those of Latin America. And the result is that given a similar geography and base population the outcome is pretty similar to Spain's result. As would be expected, given that the optimal strategy for colonization depends mostly on those two factors.

Belice should give you an example of what a Mesoamerican territory colonized by Anglos goes like. It would be safe to Assume to Guatemala and Southern Mexico would have fallen a similar fate had they been British colonies. Result: A lot of mestizos, but considerably more blacks due to acceptance of slavery, as well as slightly more whites and pure-blooded Native Americans than in the vicinity, due to less acceptance of mixing. Economy built upon agriculture, like in other countries in the region, but more stable due to acceptance of free trade and also some touristic base due to the benefits of being a tropical country that speaks the lingua franca.

Guyana could similarly be taken as an example of a North Brazil-like territory, if colonized by Anglos. Native Americans mostly pushed out to the jungle, and replaced by a slave class (Africans), much like Brazil. But Whites didn't mix with Africans to create the low class labor of mulattoes, and instead Hindus were imported by the Anglos after slavery ended. The result was even worse than Portugal's, since the pure-blooded blacks harassed the whites away from the country. The economy built upon agriculture. As expected in the region, so that didn't change at all..

Mate, you don't even know your OWN history, never mind anyone else's. The USA was NOT built on immigration from Europe. Up until remarkably recently, the bulk of the colonists absorbing the new areas to the west were produced by natural increase of the original pre-Revolution population of the 13 Colonies. Arguably, had the gate NOT been opened, you would have grown even bigger.

And for fuck's sake, when the only racial categories you seem to recognise are "Germanic" and "Moroccan", you're past all help!

Their colonies were based solely around the principle of enslaving the local populace and raping the land of resources to send back overseas. British colonialism was based more around long-term sustainability and permanent habitation, and was far more successful in the long run.

Lets say it is a 25% italian, 40% spanish, 5% portuguese, 5% germans 5% french, 5% armenian jews and turks, 5% slavs (russians, ukranians mostly) 5% african, and the last 5% is the rest of europe.

But this is just my personal observations do not take it as fact.

Also, is really hard to know from which country your ancestors came, since, first, nobody really cares, second, everyone integrates in the society in the first generation and when they have kids they interchange the surnames, and in a couple of generations a family can have like 5 surnames from 5 different contries lol

For example my grandma has spanish surnames, but her grandma came from italy.

Good posts

Also could anyone give me the cliff notes on the colonisation of Argentina

When did people start moving there
Why is it, no meme, so much whiter the rest of South America
Why did so many Italians move there
Why is separate from Brazil

Also, the italians here, more in the first half of the XX century, had an uurugayan dialect called cocolinche. It is now almost dead, because the italians that came during WWII now do not feel the necesity to express in a half assed spanish mixed with italian. They still remember their homes, when they where kids, but they do not feel like anything else but uruguayans.

Fun fact, one of my grand uncles who came from italy during the 1950s told me once
"I'm not Italian! I'm Roman! Fuck Napoles!"
I think the WWII inmigrants from italy do not have a memory of a united Italy, but rather of city states trying to survive united under Il duce

Fascinating, cheers. Mind you, Europe itself is undergoing something of the same process now, you realise. My children are half Spanish (Andaluces with some distant Catalan), with the other half being a jumble of English, Irish and Scottish. Many people will have a Rumanian grandparent here, soon enough.

#woke

>90% of drug smuggling is still from Spanish countries
Thanks for bringing that up, Spain. You fuckers just can't stop messing up, can you?

DINDU NADA

Simple, they ran out of religious minorities in need of escape.

Mate we'd have to TRY to fail with all our might to produce something as disastrous as your Haiti! Did you import Swedish experts or something?

This.

Main differences were:
1. The religion (Spain converted the natives, England pushed them aside).
2. Economic system (Spain landed on the best soil for the exploitation of resources (gold, silver), while the english settlers had to make a trade and craft economy).

you may want to take a look at our dear frind Wikipedia bruh.. it will be better than any post here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Argentina#Spanish_colonial_era

>When did people start moving there
read the wiki

>Why is it, no meme, so much whiter the rest of South America

Because they killed almost all the natives? And because they did not mix with natives? and because the african slaves did not arrive in high numbers over there as they did in brazil or cuba

>Why did so many Italians move there

Because they did not have jobs, and they were starving? They started moving en mass during the WWI then WWII.

>Why is separate from Brazil

Because the Rio de la Plata was going to be either an interior river for the Brazilian Empire or the Argentinian Liga Federal so the British, now masters of the seas, decided to create Uruguay in order to have the Rio de la Plata divided between two nations. Since whomever controlled the Rio de la Plata controlled all the trading that goes north through Rio Uruguay to Paraguay, brazilian jungle aka Matto Grosso, argentinian Jungle aka Misiones, etc

Also the Montevideo Port was really important too and whomever had it would have the upper hand over the other and thus it could conquer the other by force in the long run.

tl;dr: we are a buffer state T_T

The Portuguese kept bringing slaves to the US after the slave trade was outlawed in 1808. It's not like Spain had satellites observing the movement of ships across the Atlantic.

Great posts, like the other user said. I'd laugh my arse off, though, if you were actually la Tigresa de la Oriente, taking a break to educate us dumb fucks in between recording abysmally awful song and dance routines that you've resigned yourself to making a career of, knowing that nothing else would have such good prospects in your home country...

Yes, but you have to remember, that the sucess of our multicultural society came with a huge price, we had to fight a lot of factions and empires, even between ourselves.

But the most difficult was to create an identity and a comon culture.

These were achieved because in this terrotory now called Uruguay, there was almost no natives. And those that remained alive after our independence, we killed them all in the most cowardly way posible. We set up a party to congratulate the natives that helped us win against the spanish, and when they were all drunk and sleep, we opened fire and wipped them out.

Now, europe is another thing, it is full of natives. Are you telling me, that you are going to anihilate the native population in order for another population to rise from cero?

Maybe you can achieve a multicultural and healthy society if everyone wants to be part of said society, but if you have different groups of people with different kinds of cultures that do not, I repeat, do not want to integrate with the others, but rathers subjugate the others, then you are in for a really really nasty wake up call.

hope I'm not boring you with all these words.

Uruguay may have had the advantage of an almost ideal size, too.

About Europe, I just refer to the organic mixing of European individuals, not the Third World migrant invasion, which is quite another matter. You, luckily have been saved from anything like this, so far.

Yes, we often say here that our most valuable asset is our insignificance.

I guess with the EU a lot of european natives started mixing evenn more frequantly than before.
How do they feel? Do you teach them that they have a certain identity or you just tell them they are europeans?

>Yes, we often say here that our most valuable asset is our insignificance.

And the sheer manageability of it. Nice rounded shape, too! :D

>I guess with the EU a lot of european natives started mixing evenn more frequantly than before.

That's it, yes. It's not even on a social class basis, though, which may lead to problems in future. The elites mix, like they've always done, but the level below them have started to as well. And the underclass at the bottom, though this also fuses into a Third World element. There will be an unmixed portion who may feel aggrieved at it in the end, with God knows what political repercussions.

>How do they feel? Do you teach them that they have a certain identity or you just tell them they are europeans?

Mine are small, but I will try to teach them that they are both Spanish and English. European is a wider category that I wholeheartedly accept, but don't treat the same as actual immediate ethnicity. That said, place of upbringing has a big impact. You can try to move around, but where they go to school and have most friends and formative processes is always going to play its role. If my particular lineage ends up just merged into the Spanish nation, well, that's not the end of the world and I can live with it.

>But yeah also the Spanish were shitty colonizers.

To be fair, they also were the first to experiment it, England and France came way later when technology, knowledge and management were more refined, and were able to start on a blank canvas whereas the Spanish social, economic and political infrastructures were already rooted and tainted by their original mistakes.

It's kinda similar to how easily the US switched to liberal democracy, as the institutional and social fabrics weren't as firmly established yet as they were in Europe.

Now the Spanish send their entertainers to get popular in Mexico. Also:

>California
>Some spaniards.
>The ones who get married are always Male Spaniards with Mexican/El Salvadorian/etc. wives.
>Never meet married female Spaniards.

Are female spaniards the black women of the hispanic world or something?

Men have it in their nature to go exploring and having adventures. Those who do so often marry in the process. The aberrant women who try the same get raped and murdered.

My respect for Chinese people just went up a lot.

The black guy couldn't even protest or play the race card because chinky over there wasn't white.

your questions been answered tenfold already. i'll add the obvious:
>England is a shit place and everyone wanted to gtfo.
>Spain is a cool place and people would rather rape, plunder, pillage, and then return for some tapas y tintos.

>Jewturgal
fixed for you

> spanish colonies speak predominantly spanish
> british american colonies speaks english, french, spanish, chinese etc.

Who is the successful colonizer, again?

Because mediterranean empires ( rome, spain..) were based on agreements with local tribes and government decentralization. You give us gold and pussy and we let you go your own way. Its a win-win situation and thats the reason why US and UK are dindu nuffin and mudslim cesspools while spain is a socialist shit of a country... but we´ll always be WHITE AND EUROPEAN.

Spaniards were conquerors, the english were settlers.

Hispanophone expansion is still underway too, prijatel moi... ;o)