Why are there people from Taiwan and Hong Kong who unironically consider themselves a different ethnicity from Mainland...

Why are there people from Taiwan and Hong Kong who unironically consider themselves a different ethnicity from Mainland China's Han Chinese? Are they actually in any way significantly different from them?
>inb4 Taiwanese Aborigines
I'm obviously talking about the non-Aborigine population of Taiwan

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they are not communist. therefore they are actually human
(t. john yamanashi)

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They are sellout chinese.

It depends. There are Chinese who don't consider themselves Chinese; there are Chinese who don't consider others Chinese.

Not really, just different governments which foster a sense of different national identity. Sometimes they will say they are different from Mainlanders because Taiwanese speak Taiwanese and Hong Kongers speak Cantonese, but that totally forgets that the Mainland itself speaks over 1000 different language/dialects. Mandarin is also Taiwan's official language and pretty much everyone speaks it now.
They will also argue that they have different cultural traditions but then every province in China is massively different from the next anyway. I know some Han Taiwanese who call themselves "blood nationalists" and they LARP as Taiwanese Aborigines and that pisses off actual Aborigines.

t. Taiwanese

There are Han chauvinists who think only Han are Chinese and then you have the northern Han who consider the southern Han beneath them because southerners tended to be mixed.

Yeah, but for what reasons?

>I know some Han Taiwanese who call themselves "blood nationalists" and they LARP as Taiwanese Aborigines and that pisses off actual Aborigines.
Kek, I've heard about this, too, sounds kinda bizarre.
>tended to be mixed
Mixed with what?

Also, since you're from Taiwan, do Taiwanese have much contact with Mainlanders? Like is visiting the Mainland very common? Or using Chinese Internet and stuff like that?

Taiwanese people have two kinds, I guess.
Ones are from mainland china, others are indigenous.

>Kek, I've heard about this, too, sounds kinda bizarre.
Yes, they are crazy.

>Mixed with what?
There were a bunch of hill tribes who lived in southern China called the Baiyue. A lot of them assimilated into Chinese culture and married Chinese people after the southward expansion of the Han dynasty over two thousand years ago.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiyue

>Also, since you're from Taiwan, do Taiwanese have much contact with Mainlanders? Like is visiting the Mainland very common? Or using Chinese Internet and stuff like that?
We have a lot of contact and we are very economically dependent on the mainland. A lot of people have family living on both sides and most oversea Taiwanese live in China. Taiwanese generally do not use Chinese websites, we prefer LINE, Youtube or Facebook.

>different ethnicity
>conflating ethnicity with nationality
Fucking dumbass Mexicans the wall can't come soon enough.

If by "indigenous" you mean Taiwanese Aborigines then they only make up 2% of the population. The largest division of Taiwanese people occurs within the Han and are based on eras of migration and language spoken.

Why did you leave Taiwan and go to Australia?
I think life conditions are very good in Taiwan. Much better than let's say Russia.

They're Chinese who are unruined by cultural revolution, but are ruined by westernization later on

My parents moved from Taiwan because they were both skilled workers and Australia had a demand for them.

traitors!!!

Would you consider to move to Taiwan or stay in Australia?

Broadly speaking: North vs South; urban vs rural; degree of Westernization. It's not exactly ethnicity so much as cultural differences. All of these aspects interact and play out in different ways.

The first one has a lot to do with tradition. For centuries, the northern half was the cultural heartland of Chinese civilization, but then fell into decline and became increasingly populated by steppe descendants. By contrast, the southern half was initially a tribal backwater; by the first millennium, it came to be of increasing economic importance with the rise of southern metropolises like Guangzhou. Both see each other as less Chinese than the other.

The second is just about the same with every other country. City folk think country people are primitive simpletons; country people think city folk are highfalutin' carpetbaggers.

The third goes without saying. All of China has been Westernized to some extent, but it is very evident in Taiwan and the former colonies of Macau and Hong Kong. Obviously, the diaspora are probably the most Westernized, but some of them have been exposed to Western influence even before leaving the mainland, if they were from cities like Guangzhou and Shanghai.

Stay in Australia. I am an engineer here.

Lol what?

your parents betrayed taiwan like mine betrayed china. Our parents arent loyal at all. Are they cowardly traitors? Isnt that messed up.

Taiwan had way too many skilled workers and they had trouble finding work. It's a little island crammed with millions.

The only ones that doesn't consider them Chinese are the one that promote the independent movement. Also Macau is much better.

Why are there people from Guatemala and El Salvador who unironically consider themselves a different ethnicity from Mexican Indios? Are they actually in any way significantly different from them?

>inb4 Castizos.
I'm obviously talking about the non-Castizo population of Guatemala.

From my experience, taiwanese people don't object to being ethnically or culturally chinese. Quite the opposite, most of them are proud of their culture. What they object to is being grouped together with PRC, which probably wouldn't be an issue at all if not for the unification/independence thing.

>Baiyue
Interesting, thanks :3

Does this mean that Northern Chinese look somewhat different from Southern Chinese? I always thought it was a racist meme desu.
>Also Macau is much better
In what way?
If you're trying to be rude this is a really shitty attempt.

>life conditions are very good in Taiwan
true but job openings suck, if you're a new graduate with above average qualifications - you'd move

this
even polls do this sometimes, either as a mistake, or intentionally trying to push an agenda

Not being rude Amigo, just pointing out that your example is flawed. Race doesn't equal identity.

Macau: higher GDP per capita, not a urban hellhole, has actual historical districts, delicious Portuguese treats, wonderful Cantonese food, qt3.14 miss Macau 2017, low tax, high wage, government gave out money every year, no sexpats. Etc etc

Macau is literally a casino and a tourist trap. The only person who would say it's worse than Hong Kong is someone who hasn't been there. It's like saying Las Vegas is the real America .

>no sexpats. Etc etc
Outside of Japan and Korea, what is the point of visiting Asian countries if not to fuck little girls?

Is this a serious question? This is like asking why Thais consider themselves different from Kinh when they are both Southeast Asian. Indigenous ethnic groups in Latin America still exist.

Sometimes you can tell, sometimes you can't. But generally it is a racist meme since many southern Chinese are of Han descent with no Baiyue ancestry at all. And people are migrating all over the place all the time.
Some differences in appearance are also environmental. People in the south eat rice while people in the north eat wheat so northerners tend to be taller. The south gets hot while the north can be freezing so southerners tend to be darker skinned due to sun exposure.

>Macau is literally a casino and a tourist trap.
Casino is only part of the city there is a historical district. Also its casinos are not party city filled with 21 yr old kids being degenerates.

>People in the south eat rice while people in the north eat wheat so northerners tend to be taller.
Why does wheat make people taller than rice?

Wheat contains more iron and this makes people grow taller.

Okay, well one last question on my mind, does the Taiwanese diaspora ever mingle with other overseas Chinese? Be it from older Chinese communities or recent immigrants from the Mainland?

No. They literally are all originally from the Mainland.

Most overseas Taiwanese don't identify as solely Taiwanese or reject Chinese identity like a lot on the island do (Jeremy Lin, Eddie Huang, Lucy Liu are all Taiwanese but identify as Chinese American). When you live overseas, you tend to put aside nationalistic differences because your government isn't there to manipulate opinion. What's interesting is that Taiwanese actually get along better with mainland immigrants (who aren't commie drones) than they do with the older Chinese communities because these historic Chinese communities were dominated by Cantonese immigrants. There was a language barrier between the two groups (Cantonese vs Mandarin) and so the Taiwanese generally didn't settle near them.

Generally by the second generation they tend to lose fluency in whatever Chinese language they spoke and English becomes dominant, so the language barriers with other assimilated Chinese people are no longer an issue.

thanks

You're welcome. I had fun answering your questions.

>Why are there people from Taiwan and Hong Kong who unironically consider themselves a different ethnicity from Mainland China's Han Chinese?

Some Taiwanese who strive for independence do. They will talk about how they have Aborigine blood when they don't, or they treat 1/64th Aborigine ancestry like it means something.

Hong Kongers not so much but they tend to view themselves as "more Chinese" than mainlanders and they are highly defensive of their language. They believe Cantonese is an older and "purer" Chinese language unlike Mandarin which is more "new" and was "mongrelised" by northern invaders. Some even argue that the northern Han were replaced by Altaic peoples which isn't true (northern Han are genetically the same as those from over 3000 years ago). Some Japanese ultra-nationalists also cling onto this false belief to deny Chinese people from claiming their own culture.

I'm not Chinese or Taiwanese or Hong Kongese, etc. so correct me.

It's a cultural and occasionally linguistic difference

>Some Taiwanese who strive for independence do. They will talk about how they have Aborigine blood when they don't, or they treat 1/64th Aborigine ancestry like it means something.
Yes, they are called blood nationalists.

>They believe Cantonese is an older and "purer" Chinese language unlike Mandarin which is more "new" and was "mongrelised" by northern invaders.
This is annoying because all Chinese languages apart from Min descend from Middle Chinese. Northern invaders did influence Mandarin but they completely leave out the part that Cantonese was influenced by Baiyue peoples and it has lots of English loanwords due to British colonial rule of Hong Kong. Cantonese people also have the most Baiyue ancestry out of all Chinese provinces. But that's not a bad thing. They are still Chinese and identifying as Chinese was never really about blood in the Imperial era as China was full of all sorts of people. All this blood purity garbage is stupid.

I do want Cantonese to remain in use and I can understand why Hong Kongers are so protective of it. The government pushing Mandarin on everyone is damaging linguistic diversity. I don't want all the Chinese languages to go extinct because of Mandarin.

>Some Japanese ultra-nationalists also cling onto this false belief to deny Chinese people from claiming their own culture.
Lmao I have seen this too. Idiots actually believe it. But then again Sup Forums is a weeaboo site that doesn't know shit about Chinese history. People get freaked out when they find out about basic shit like the Battle of Suiyang or Mao killing sparrows, and that's all they ever seem to know. Stop relying on Sup Forums for your education, thanks.

It's fascinating to see that Taiwan has a thriving Freemasonic culture in Taiwan, mostly run by Hakka.

>unironically consider themselves a different ethnicity from Mainland China
I don't, it has nothing to do with communism though. Those who do are mainly separatists with political agenda.

>saging my thread

the answer is they only consider themselves have different nationality, the problem is some dumb people think ethnicity should be tied with nationality, that's how the entire shitstorm come from.

t. real Taiwanese who live in Taiwan and doesn't immigrant to another English shithole

I don't even know she exist until your post.

They just do.

My girlfriend is Taiwanese Aboriginal

pathetic Uncle Zhangs

i think the confusion is caused by the lack of a english word to differentiate between chinese from PRC and chinese from other chinese country.