Why did so many libertarians turn into alt-right fucktards?

Why did so many libertarians turn into alt-right fucktards?

I'm asking because I've been browsing Sup Forums since it was called /new/, and I feel like I've witnessed a pretty giant swing in the average Sup Forumsack's ideology. I feel like GG was the turning point. Pre-GG, the most popular ideology seemed to be libertarianism. Posts on Keynesian vs. Austrian economics were probably the most popular debates. Of course, you had the alt-right white nationalists and the cuckold porn spammers at that point too, but they were mostly a minority and a giant percentage of them were memers from the /new/ days. But post-GG, it seems like the entire board's focus has shifted to a culture war of sorts. That seems weird as fuck to me, since normally libertarians think the government should stay out of cultural issues and give people, well, liberty in that regard. The alt-right philosophy seems to be entirely opposite to that. The logic seems to be "restore the social and cultural conditions of 1950s america and the economic and politic stuff will sort it self out".

So, Sup Forums? How do you go from a political philosophy that stresses cultural apathy to one that's almost entirely based on a perceived culture war?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=MUO9L577GS4
latimes.com/politics/la-na-trailguide-updates-1468001199-htmlstory.html
youtube.com/watch?v=Tb8cErokGFs
reason.com/blog/2011/07/20/being-libertarian-may-cause-au
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Edgy reactionaries reacting 100% to tumblr. It's sad that 2 websites reacting to each other created such a bunch of bull shit now.

Is that really all there is to it?

I mean, that seems like that's all there is to it. But I'd like to hope there's some actual train of thought behind most Trumposters aside from "muh ess jay dubyas". Like, I want to believe that there's some actual logic behind these people.

I really don't want to think that Sup Forums meme'd a man into the general election.

Because desperate times call for desperate measures. Libertarians may have good intentions, but they in effect will be no better than neo-cons, which in effect are no better than Dems. Johnson is pro open borders, pro amnesty. That tells you all you should need to know.

A Libertarian president may have been helpful in a world where USA was still 90% white.

Maybe they went back to re ddit where their jewish ideology is more welcome. Have fun for voting for legalize weed open borders man.

MUH ROADS

Been here since 2013. Libertarians were never anything more than a retarded and loud minority.

It's become increasingly obvious that people literally want to exterminate straight white males, and all the economic policy on the world doesn't mean shit when Muslims are raping your women and the thought police are silencing you for suggesting maybe we stop that.

I know what you're talking about and yes, the world has gotten that much worse just the last few years and yes, everybody notices, which is why we have occasional threads about 'man shit sure has gotten terrible just the last few years'

I hope for trump because I'm a poorfag and him winning pisses off richfags. When it comes to politics, I always tend to agree with Gary Johnson more and with Trump quite seldom. But that's besides the point. Johnson's not going to win. Trump or Shillary is.

Reactionary shift because of Obama and Hillary. They'll swing back to the left when we get our next Bush-tier Republican president

Libertarians are contrarian by nature, for better or worse

No dude, you give Sup Forums way too much credit. They don't believe in anthropogenic global warming, most of them are christian, and Sup Forums has one of the lowest average IQ's of any board on Sup Forums.

I only come here for humorous entertainment. It's like watching the retarded kids at recess trip and fall.

National Liberalism is here to stay. I want to see white trannies and gays holding hands with a gun in the other and joints in the pocket and a nigger skin wallet.

because I am 24 instead of 18

I fell for the lolbertarian meme

now I realize gary johnson is a retarded faggot who wants open borders

>been here since the exact point where I said the board shifted
Libertarians used to be the minority, man. Threads on economic theories were like 70-80% of the board. The guys screaming about culture were the ones who used to be the minority.

>assuming you know everything about my personal political views or who I'm even voting for based on my question

i'm not a libertarian lol

I could buy that.

During the late bush years Sup Forums was super liberal.

Libtertarians are worthless, enjoy never being relevant to anything, ever.

...

>Libertarians may have good intentions, but they in effect will be no better than neo-cons, which in effect are no better than Dems.

This.

Libertarians try to stay out of cultural issues, but when cultural issues are thrust on libertarians, that is when you start to see the swing.

Gamergate wasn't until summer 2014. It was ancaps vs Nazis from 2013 until then.

The worst thing to happen to this board was Trump. Half of these people are from r/the_donald which is nothing like Sup Forums no matter how hard they shill

libertarianism is a joke

thats why, a fucking JOKE. The Libertarian Party today is indistinguishable form leftists SJWs on social issues, they support open borders, and 90% of their policies are in regards to legalizing WEED.

Have fun with your meme ideology that will never gain traction

SJWs, ISIS, and BLM happened

>the planet goes through seasons therefor we must be responsible.
>i can see no god therefore i am in charge
your arrogant.
do you know what the downfall of most great societies is?

>I feel like GG was the turning point.

The SJW invasion provoked a response of a kind. Socialism inspired ideologies love to slice people up into groups and pit them against one another because they perceive this process to be the main agent of progress. If the identity "FUCKING WHITE MALE" is gonna be imposed upon us, by which I mean that this is the way others will think of us, then we will do with this identity what we will and will naturally try to defend it, since we will be included in it whether we want it or not.

Hence the alt-right. Now as to why it is libertarian precisely who reacted this way, it is because it was they who were most likely to react negatively against the collectivist lens imposed on them by the SJW ideology. At first the libertarian response to it was to deny the possibility of collectivized thinking all together, but as this line of argumentation has been found to be ineffective, pragmatic dictated that we made the collectivism in question our own, since it seemed to be used advantageously by the other parties.

There are some people who still reject this type of thinking in term of group, but they usually self describe as "classic liberals" and anti-SJW. They're not alt-right.

You can't prove any of the assertions you just made, you sure the board users are the ones with low IQ and not you?

...

I can buy that former libertarians may now believe
>It's become increasingly obvious that people literally want to exterminate straight white males,

But, as for
>and all the economic policy on the world doesn't mean shit when Muslims are raping your women and the thought police are silencing you for suggesting maybe we stop that.
Wouldn't the average libertarian see a situation like that and say something like "We shouldn't have thought police and there should be a free market of culture where no one fucking wants to follow the rape religion"

There wasn't much left after the defeat of Ron and Rand Paul, so Americans that knew they were anything but leftists basically moved away from failed libertarianism into the Alternative Right.

youtube.com/watch?v=MUO9L577GS4

No.
>libertarian here.
free market of culture?
what the fuck.
no
whatever happened to you stay where you are and ill stay where i am.

most importantly don't go where you are not wanted?

Christ's sake, what is she edgy and pissed off about? The size of her feet? I guess I'd be pissed about that too.

libertarianism is for children

I only fell for it because I hated school and being told what to do and I wanted to be a special snowflake

>free market of culture
>islam

lmao

the main tension seems between wanting to have a free society and free market but also wanting tight border control to keep the swathes of freedom hating brownies out, I noticed a big shift with the refugee crisis in europe kicked into high gear

I'm not sure why they don't just consider border defense apart of property rights defense and see there's no tension in keeping unwanted people off your land

all the cultural tensions come from welfare tbqh since all these useless immigrants, degeneracy and crime factory single mothers can only behave that way because they state gives them money to pump out more kids

>free market of culture

That was a fucking dumbass way to describe it by me.

What I meant was what said,
>Hence the alt-right. Now as to why it is libertarian precisely who reacted this way, it is because it was they who were most likely to react negatively against the collectivist lens imposed on them by the SJW ideology. At first the libertarian response to it was to deny the possibility of collectivized thinking all together, but as this line of argumentation has been found to be ineffective, pragmatic dictated that we made the collectivism in question our own, since it seemed to be used advantageously by the other parties.

Also, seems like a pretty good answer to my question. Makes sense.

>self describe as "classic liberals"

I can assure you this is not a self descriptor, and it should not at all be surprising which race or religious group actually started using it. The idea, and it is flawed, was to separate them off and drive them to the right. However anyone who sees through this is relatively intelligent (though still bluepilled enough to be on the left) and all it does is cause infighting.

t. definitely not leftypol, i'm a pure blooded libertarian please believe me

This whole post makes sense. I can see why people would believe this.

I still don't understand most of the alt-right, though. Mostly types of folks. I'd like to, but I feel that's beyond the scope of this thread.

>Why did so many libertarians turn into alt-right fucktards?

Because it's currently the ultra progressive left that's seized enough power in the right places to fuck with the shit that said libertarians like.

So, it's natural that cultural battling would gain in prominence.

The ultra christfags by comparison aren't seen as a threat.

Compare that to how much the narrative on, say race and gender has shited in the last 3 years.

>tfw no redpilled qt3.14 stoner gf to smoke dank nugs with

Your right in that we believe the government should stay out of cultural issues, but that has become infected when they feel that immigration (mass) is a government issue (federal) and not a states right issue.

you make the assumption that the current culture is a product of non-government interference. when in fact we are combating a "progressive" agenda that seeks to eliminate the white race by mass integration into other societies no matter how degenerate they may be.
regardless.

why does this matter?
you obviously dont like us and we don't give a shit about the problems that your seeking to cause.
so.
like all libertarians
leave us the fuck alone and count us out of your petty frivolous bullshit.

That's really the point m8. Global free market only works if everyone follows the same rules to ensure fair competition. A communist slave-state like China, by it's very nature, does not follow those rules, therefore anyone else who does follow them will be taken advantage of.

Islam is the "free market of ideas" equivalent. Can't have a free market of ideas when one of the ideas is built upon killing anyone who criticizes it.

Self described classic liberals are people like David Rubin and other types of pseudo libertarian people (Sargon of Akkad) who had a split wit the rest of the left over Islam and identity politic on steroid.

They are still against the possibility of seeing themselves as belonging to a group and acting in the interest of said group. They are individualist at the core.

What's most likely to happen, however, is that they will realize more and more that the left rejects individualism and personal freedom which they reckon is a value system borne out of exploitation that exists solely to mask and protect the "privileges" of the dominant class. As this realization emerge, so called classic liberals will realize that they are confronted with an enemy which is effectively forcing them into a certain camp.

They thought they were in front of someone they could talk to but they're really standing face to face with a kind of aggressor who insists very much on seeing race and gender and analyzing social situations according to these units of measurement.

>Can't have a free market of ideas when one of the ideas is built upon killing anyone who criticizes it
and this.

...

The left has been controling the media for decades imposing its world view on the population.

The internet made it now hard for the mainstream media to control information. Use the migrant crisis for example. If there was no internet we would not know for the Cologne attacks and the.media would be shiling for the rapefugees.

GG was only a candle that started the fire.
It was only a time of when ppl start getting proper informations and open its eyes to reality. Instead of believing in a multikultopia.

I'm not sure if the mainstream narrative on race and gender has really shifted all that much. IMO, I just feel like two separate echo chambers collided, and each side thought that the other was the new "mainstream America". The BLM people think the average person is a 1776er, and the 1776ers think the average person is a BLM guy.


But wouldn't the libertarian response be to, you know, level the playing field and make everyone play by the rules? I'm not seeing why a libertarian would want to get rid of liberal equality thought police, only to replace them with "Islam sucks" thought police.

>The late Bush years

Bush had a 24% approval rating, of course everyone sounded liberal

Libertarian Alt-Right checking in. there's no contradiction. One focuses mainly on monetary policy and rights issues, the other is the cultural foundation needed for a mutually respectful society to work.

The big plus from libertarianism is the boost to trade and unmediated human interactions. But as Ayn Rand famously ignored, there's still the possibility of violence. Only a traditionalist, "alt-right" (which is really just reactionary) ethical context can truly optimize libertarian philosophy

TLDR its the two sides of the best coin

You have to understand that there is many people in the alt-right who have increasingly found themselves being put in the "shit bar".

It used to be that the only people who were in the shit bar were actually racist and neo-nazis. These people were positively proscribed from contributing to the discourse in general. Nobody wanted to see them and nobody had to hear of them. They were pariah. But as the social justice agenda became more and more aggressive, a growing number of individual got pushed into the shit bar. I got pushed into it because of Islam. It suddenly became "racist" to criticize an ideology who had all the flaws of christianity yet deserved none of the ridicule or scrutiny.

But of course, SJW didn't stop there and, soon enough, the "shit bar" part of town started to develop into its own fucking neighborhood, new element mixing with the old in a zone of complete freedom. Since it was just as bad for me to criticize Islam as it was to talk about race differences and diversity, there suddenly was no cost at all to thinking and talking about those thing among the people of who had been pushed into the shit bar.

Today, this particular discursive space (shit bar) is populated by old and new element. The old stock is what used to be rejected back in 2008-2013. The new stock is something different.

My guess is that they have similiar morality with reactionaries and reactionary propaganda is super effective to make them totalitarian fascist bootlickers.

This man is correct. The alt-right is dead OP. Not even the American's on this board believe in the founding father's vision anymore. They've decided to fight fire with fire (not implying they actually achieve anything in society or their own lives).

Sup Forums has become the right-wing, male equivalent of Tumblr. Just another petting zoo for highly irrational, poorly educated citizens who are addicted to the internet.

That's not what national liberalism really is.

t. second biggest party is the National Liberal one

Alt right isn't a coherent ideology.

Its a fucking meme

Libertarianism was a meme for young white males during the early internet years before they realized just how much the media was against white males.

The entire world has shifted to identity politics, why you think whites wouldn't is delusion.

>I'm not sure if the mainstream narrative on race and gender has really shifted all that much.

How young are you? The shift since about 2013 has been incredible. Online media like Salon, HufPost and even now respected media like Guardian and NYT are heavily anti-white to the point of literally saying it without any double meaning or subtlety.

Iq meme that infographic was ridiculously generous to lit

This is exactly it. Hard to argue for a peaceful society when half your society is using state power to destroy everything that is meaningful to you.

Me too senpai

The tipping point was Ron Paul becoming a sellout to Romney, and Rand Paul SPASTICALLY attacking Trump over border control. That was the moment I went to Trump.

Pol hasn't changed much, though. Ultimately its about borders-n-guns, and freedom in general.

The modern libertarian party is anti gun, pro selling heroin to kids, and anti Christian bakeries, so fuck them.

(((Pure coincidence))))

I agree with all of this, but I'm pretty sure there's two separate shit bars. I highly doubt the average American has anywhere near the same low threshold for "shit bar"ing someone as the average tumblr user. If that were true, then Trump would have been given the shit bar by the vast majority of the populace. He probably wouldn't even have lasted much longer than Rand Paul, let alone won the Republican nomination, if that was the case.

IMO, it seems like there's two seperate kinds of shit bars. One that the SJW's put people into, and the other that the alt-right folks do. I mean, shit, look at this thread and see how many people tried to discredit the entire premise of my discussion because they thought I was a libertarian (I'm not). Imagine if I said in my post I was a SJW, jew, or shillary voter? IMO, it's the shitbarring on both sides that has totally fucked any hope of having a meaningful conversation about politics on the internet.

>Why did so many libertarians turn into alt-right fucktards?

Because 90% of them weren't genuine, they were just memers following a trend.

Ron Paul brought them. He brought the anti abortion nuts and the neo confederate racists. People dont realize it but he's been terrible for libertarianism. Eventuality he'll have to be denounced and the Paultards run out of the movement the same way conservatives had to get rid of the John Birchers..

Because the libertarians that went "alt-right" learned that the problems in society can not be solved exclusively through economic goals, and libertarians take pride in addressing everything exclusively through economic goals.

(You)

Hitler has proven one thing, he has right about racial politics. If any race is going to advance their politics based on race alone, whites should be a the front of the line, no questions asked. It's not about supremacy, it is our divine right to protect our land and our people.

The shift comes from the realization of how fucked we truly are.

"The nation-state is still the source of happiness." The Don

We have accpwted the governmwnt isn't going anywhere, so we have adopted authoritarian views so that order may be restored in this time of choas.

Some are memeing little shits, the meme magic shit makes me want to puke.

You take what you can. What's more free, 'anything you want but Islam' or 'anything you want if Islam allows it'? Some ideas are mutually exclusive.

Alt-Right is doublespeak for Nazism. That's it.

You can find libertarians everywhere on the internet still. But Sup Forums became indoctrinated by Stormfront. Ron Paul Sup Forums was many years ago.

God forbid people stop being autists and start to notice demographic trends.

There's probably a pretty big overlap between the old shit bar and low IQ people who didn't have a whole lot of representation in the media outside of the republican party. What's surprising about Trump isn't his popularity among that demographic but the fact that there is a semi articulate crowd gathering around him and figures like milo and vox day. (Vox is pure alt right.)

As for the reason why we cannot hold a meaningful conversation with the opposition, it actually, I believe, boil down to the philosophical supposition each side makes. You'll notice that the way to left treat reality and language isn't the same as the way the right does. The left sees reality as being constructed by language and thus every speech act isn't so much a way to communicate information as it is a way to build reality. In that universe, the notion of true and false doesn't really apply. There is only the "social object" you construct and the power dynamic you embed within them.

This is why it's very difficult to talk with a modern day lefty. They don't use words the same way we do. If we say something which they perceive will perpetuate a certain power dynamic they may not like, they'll see us as being complicit in a system of oppression and exploitation, at which point they'll go for the jugular in a non discursive way.

This is part and parcel of the reason why these people consider speech aggression. A good example of this is the notion of rape culture. Rape culture is the idea that language and attitude generate a mindset whereby sexual violence against women (at the hand of the privileged ie. white men) is more likely. (There's a logical reason as to why it is always the "privileged" who are targeted.) In this view, language creates reality, creates the action of rape and sexual assault. Therefore, if you talk wrong about rape, you're complicit in rape culture and hence rape.

Of course, since speech causes rape, it becomes very important to control speech.

The majority doesn't do anything, they just follow the extremists. It is, in fact, a minority of society that ever makes anything happen, the majority just jumps behind the popular idea. All those psychopaths on college campuses and out in the streets can and do drag the bulk of society along without an opposing force.

libertarianism is pretty fucking easy to understand, if you're not a retarded little faggot. It's basically classic Republicanism re: small government, but leaving out the Christian morality bullshit.

Seriously, it's that simple. Small. Government. That's it, you illiterate nigger.

This. There are two types of people that are naturally attracted to Libertarianism: autistic diehard philosophers and completely drugged out conspiracy nutters.

The majority of the alt-right don't fit this at all. Sure you have a few conspiracy nuts here and there, but for the most part the alt-right is just young, dumb and angry males eager to take their frustration out on whatever they perceive to be the problem at the time. Now that there are recognizable leaders with a violent, meme-friendly message to rally behind, they've revealed themselves for what they truly are.

>most of them are christian

Slanderous. We worship Kek.

I'm pretty fucking old, pal. Old enough to know that Salon and Hufpo have been practically self parody since they started. The only difference is, you didn't have a giant collection of man-babies on Sup Forums whining about how one guy said in an article on a site targeted at a specific internet subculture represented the decline of America.

And it's not just Hufpo and Salon. The Guardian, or any NYT article you find online, isn't the "mainstream" media. Anything you find online is geared towards millennials. A large chunk of the demographic that reads online news (hint: millennials, and a minority of the population) are much more receptive to SJW rhetoric. The demographic that watches news on TV and reads newspapers (non-millennials, aka "the mainstream") aren't as into it. That doesn't mean that some of them won't be receptive to ideas like "white privilege". Hell, fucking Newt Gingrich checked his privilege earlier today. latimes.com/politics/la-na-trailguide-updates-1468001199-htmlstory.html

But, when CNN and Fox News are praising cop killers, that's when I'll think that the mainstream media is anti-white.

libertarians are autistic and retarded

youtube.com/watch?v=Tb8cErokGFs

they think "hurr get rid of le governmnet" is a legitimate cure all for the world's problems.

Sup Forums was all about Trump MONTHS before /r/the_donald even existed.

reddit isn't shilling here. Sup Forums is shilling on reddit.

libertarianism is just applied autism

reason.com/blog/2011/07/20/being-libertarian-may-cause-au

anything on earth is better than a retarded ancap

...

In germany at least the mainstream parties drifted to the left after the Liberterian Party (FDP) commited suicide by bad politics and the CDU under Merkel went full opportunistic.
This led to a vaccuum in the moderate right and helped the rise of the AfD.

I imagine in burgerland there happened something similar with cuckservatives.

For Internet libertarians however I think GG broke the camels back when they saw how radical SJW are and how it's getting more mainstream.

It's literally newkiddies being edgy. Funny thing is they don't even realize they're exactly what they supposedly despise: SJW's, but they think they're right wing, totally retarded.

>he thinks being right wing= being a cuck that is fine with being racially and ethnically destroyed by non whites

kek

Before GG, Sup Forums was literally a Nazi board then the nazis got kicked out and went to cripple chan.

You sir, are a fool.

>that 1 shill who posts the same shit every thread using the same non arguments

Fucking kys.

"Everyone is equal and everyone gets a vote" sounds great until you realize women and niggers vote for stupid shit that ruins your country.

what is cripple chan?

Right wing is being against big government. End of story. Now go suck Moshe's circumcised cock shill.

>been here since 2013

Fucking newfag

I think libertarianism is on the decline because of Donald Trump. Usually you get a shitty democratic candidate and a shitty republican candidate, and you're just choosing between the lesser of two evils. This is not the case this time around; Trump is actually a good candidate and would make a good President. Many libertarians like Trump and know Gary Johnson can't realistically win. I also agree more with Trump's immigration policy.

It's not that the philosophy of libertarianism is on the decline, it's that nobody is dedicated to the party enough to not vote for Donald Trump.

because it's true

libertarians are the most autistic people on earth by a mile

kek you are literally retarded

the right began with monarchism

lrn2basichistory and not libertarian propaganda

Globalism, for or against, is the only issue of our time. The rest must fall to the generations who inherit the rubble.

Libertarians are not centrist. They've always been right wing in nature. Because capitalism, private property and freedom in general have to do with respecting the natural hierarchy of human society, which is a right-wing concept.

But since there are so many threats to liberty as of now―the Obama administration, Hilary Clinton, Black Lives Matter, ISIS and general Islamic terrorism, the European Union, SJWs directing how governments and corporations function and so on, the Right is becoming more and more militant. Hence the abandonment of traditional libertarianism (which by the way cannot work in a democratic context where taxes and welfare can be voted on by people who are inherently hostile to liberty) and the gravitation towards the far end of the right-wing spectrum.

I buy all of this, but doesn't alt-right kind of do the same thing? I mean, this logic:
>The left sees reality as being constructed by language and thus every speech act isn't so much a way to communicate information as it is a way to build reality. In that universe, the notion of true and false doesn't really apply. There is only the "social object" you construct

Isn't that the same logic that lots of alt-righters use to condemn liberal points as simple "virtue signalling"?

Personally, I think what you're talking about is the major problem politics faces in the internet era. No one can judge someone's ideas as simply ideas, they HAVE to attach some ideology to the idea. Then, instead of actually critically thinking about the initial idea in question, they have to argue PAST that and shit on other things they ASSUME that person believes, that have nothing to do with the idea in question. And that's not something that only liberals do. I mean, again, look at this fucking thread. Half the responses are people ignoring what I said and just going "lol OP's a lolbertarian lololol". How's that any different from an SJW ignoring someone's entire argument because they've found some tangential looped-logic way of calling them racist? And how are we supposed to have an actual fucking discussion if either of these dynamics exist?

>The alt-right philosophy seems to be entirely opposite to that. The logic seems to be "restore the social and cultural conditions of 1950s america and the economic and politic stuff will sort it self out".

libertarians kiddies who posted here grew up and realised that
>Freedom ain't free

A free society is dependent on circumstances it cannot guarantee on its own. Once you have uncontrolled immigration of cultures that do not care about a free society, you will no longer have one.

Ideologists like Ancaps tend to become radicalized very easily once they realize that their utopia doesn't work in practice. Look at all those "anarchist" revolutions that quickly turned into dictatorships.

>Libertarians are not centrist. They've always been right wing in nature.

Only in relation to communists, not in relation to anything else.


because appealing to libertarian cucks is pointless

you will say anything to avoid being called "racist" despite the fact the left hates you regardless of what you say

A place that can't be posted here due to the spam filter.

Have you considered googling it?

Que?

>he thinks being right wing simply means "preserving the social order"

Reminder that your actual autistic political compass that claims you can be right wing authoritarian or left win libertarian was created by an anarcho communist kike.

>autistic political compass
>t-the politica compass is wrong not me!!!!

>libertarian was created by an anarcho communist kike.

god you're fucking retarded if you think Rothbard created libertarianism

will the libertarian autism ever end?

>m-m-muh Rothbard

I bet the autistic kiwi wouldn't even know who this was without the file name.

>alt rightists are radicalized libertarians

>libertarians are the most autistic people on earth by a mile
There's literally nothing more autistic than telling people what to do when it doesn't actually affect you in any significant or realistic way. Not everybody has to feel like they're "part of the community".