Which one is true Xeno kino?

Which one is true Xeno kino?

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Alien is an original movie that was done perfectly,

Aliens is a sequel to an original movie done perfectly.

It really comes down to taste desu.

I side with Aliens cause it birthed my favorite game, Halo.

Neither.

I prefer the first one. The sequel is too action-y and Cameron-y.

That being said, I prefer T2 to the first Terminator.

I liked alien better because it was more of a horror movie than an action. One alien in alien felt like more of a threat than the hundreds in aliens, they're both great though

Agreed.

Prometheus was fantastic, can't wait for Alien: Covenant to come out and add to the lore

Aliens >>>> Alien

I wish buttmad alien 1 fags didn't kill Prometheus 2.
I wanted to see the engineers planet but now we're getting the same movie as alien and alien 3

>T. Pleb

Aliens completely shits on what made the original so good. It removes all the sexual fear and Lovecraftian undertones for
>Muh Vietnam

That being said, Aliens is still a great flick. It just doesn't hold a candle to the atmosphere and masterful direction of Alien

Bad friggan bait.

It just slasher flick after slasher flick with Ridley though. He's a fucking hack.

Honestly, it seems to have the worst elements of every Alien film
>The slow drag of Alien (while it worked for that one, I don't think it'll work for this)
>The aliens are now bug creatures that pounce all over the place like fucking velociraptors of Aliens
>The interchangeable characters of Alien^3
>The gung-ho heroes of Resurrection
>The stupid characters of Prometheus

same except metroid series for me

Alien is a good tier film
Aliens is a God tier flick

Alien.

There is no contest. Alien is a legitimate classic of the genre and one of the best space horror movies ever made that extols the virtues of the subgenre nigh perfectly. Fantastic set design, great actors, iconic monster design distinct and unique to everything that came before and after, top tier atmosphere. Aliens is a Marvel-tier quipfest that absolutely misses the entire horror and point of Alien in favour bullheaded one-dimensional characters. The single redeeming feature, if it can even be called that, is Ripley's absolute insistence that the place be nuked from orbit because she knows how dangerous a single one of these things can be, but even she is reduced to a quiplord by the end.

Alien=Predator>Aliens=Predator 2>Alien 3>Predators=Prometheus> Alien 4>AvP>AvP 2

>yfw the Alien 3 Assembly cut is actually pretty good
>yfw Fincher's undeterred vision would have been the best entry in the series

Aliens has Bill Paxton

Alien has that last climax with the sirens and the darkness and the cat

Impossible to choose one

>Aliens has Bill Paxton

All he did was ham it up with a vocabulary right out of the 80s. It was a performance more expected of Matthew Lillard. Not that Bill doesn't have a history of playing caricatures.

you're literally criticizing Aliens for not being a horror movie which it never intended to be

Bill Paxton was such a fun guy to watch in Aliens. Of course he's a caricature, all the military characters are but the way he breaks is so ridiculous and funny. The desperation of the middle of that movie wouldn't work with the Game Over scene and his insistence that they're all fucked and going to die

I think he's saying Aliens has more in common with Marvel movies (in terms of story structure) than it does with the original Alien, even though the latter shares a common setting/universe with the former. It's not a totally out of left field comparison. If he doesn't like Marvel, then following his logic, it's easy to see why he wouldn't like Aliens.

>Sequel to one of the greatest horror movies ever made
>Not a horror movie

Don't get me wrong, I love Aliens, but is right in saying that it missed the mark of the first movie, as well as ruining the franchise by making every tie-in and adaptation have to be somewhat action-oriented

You're right, I should have said I think James Cameron and the producers tainted one of the best horror movies ever made with his completely generic 80s action flick who only standout features come from a better film. The franchise is sci-fi action now, as the movies fell to shit this is all that people care to remember because loud noises and big monsters are all that grab their attention. The only other alternative is a hackneyed ancient aliens plot provided by Prometheus. I'd rather neither ever happened.

In all fairness, what actually bothers me most is the absolute tonal dissonance between the two films, which I should have mentioned. Aliens feels like Marvel at its worst and most generic compared to Alien that genuinely stood out as new, shocking and original. The only thing Aliens had to make it stand out was the monster, relegated to a horde of pests and needed a bigger, badder monster to make them seem like a true threat. The Queen Alien pisses me off so much since it assumes things about what was supposed to be an alien in every conceivable aspect. Now, instead of a totally alien creature divorced from human understanding of life, it's a space bug.

>The only other alternative is a hackneyed ancient aliens plot provided by Prometheus
>hackneyed

How is a storyline about the origin of humanity tied to higher-minded extraterrestrials "hackneyed"?

alien if you've never heard of or seen the xenomorph before
aliens if you have

they actually cheekily reduced it to a "bug hunt" in the beginning of Aliens. it's what one of the Marines calls it when they're first being debriefed. you're right, they took the terror of the unknown out of the monster by making it a generic horde

Because that concept was written in 1931 under the title 'At the Mountains of Madness' and is a subject that has been written about by dozens upon dozens of other writers afterwards and even has its own dumbass show in the History Channel. It's by no means a fresh, new original take on the idea in any way, shape or form.

Can anyone recommend me a sci-fi movie that is tonally similar to Alien? I'm craving more creepy, insidious, chock-full of dread, "helplessly alone in space" films. It doesn't even have to have a monster---I just want something that also builds on themes of isolation and paranoia and the unknown.

Why are we comparing film to literature or TV made for LCD types? You're setting up an unfair juxtaposition out of spite, probably. There haven't been many movies which tackle this issue; even less which do it successfully.

Event Horizon

I've seen it, it kinda sucks dick. Awesome premise, though. It was inspired by Lovecraft, right? Or people compare it to cosmic horror at least? Maybe I should start reading Lovecraft.

Aliens is fucking garbage.

>The Queen Alien pisses me off so much since it assumes things about what was supposed to be an alien in every conceivable aspect. Now, instead of a totally alien creature divorced from human understanding of life, it's a space bug.

Fucking this! The alien queen was nothing but a big boss at the end, and because of it, detracted from the mythos of the original. Part of what made alien so scary was not knowing what it did with its victims and not knowing where the eggs came from. The queen answers both those questions, and isn't even all that scary beyond being a big spoopy monster. I much preferred what it did in the deleted scene from Alien, turning Dallas and Brett into eggs. That was genuinely frightening, and raised more questions as well as added a cosmic horror element to the whole thing. But instead we just got big bad queen monster

>the end of Aliens is basically Cameron's fetishization of animu robot vs monster

fucking rubbish

At the Mountains of Madness is great. If also recommend watching John Carpenter's In the Mouth of Madness as preparation

You asked how it was hackneyed and I told you how. Prometheus' central idea doesn't bring a single new concept to the table that hasn't been done already - this isn't an 'it's not original' criticism, you can't actually do that, the problem is it just doesn't even try to present an idea with a new angle or spin. It's an ancient aliens backstory that's been in existence for so long already.

What makes Aliens and Prometheus even worse when compared to Alien is their sheer lack of awareness for what made Alien such a good movie. The alien has no backstory, no origin, it's simply that, an alien, it's the figurative Other, it exists outside of your experiences and understandings. It's already an automatic, perfect villain. Then Aliens gives us a Queen Alien, which lays the eggs and already we're narrowing down the existence of the alien into a space bug with smarts. Already it's heavily diluted a terribly effective villain into a quantifiable state, which is anathema to horror. Prometheus goes even further and shows us more or less exactly how this shit even comes into existence. It spits in the face of Alien and doesn't even do it in any kind of interesting way.

As it stands, the assembly cut is a lot better than either of the two earlier films..

fug u event horizon is great

But if you want to read some Lovecraft, which you should, start with some shorter stuff like
>Dagon
>From Beyond
>The Picture in the House
>The Rats in the Walls
>The Music of Erich Zann

Then move onto longer stuff (like The Call of Cthulhu, The Colour out of Space and Shadow Over Innsmouth), his writing style can be both very staid and obscure, and also really in depth and interesting. At the Mountains of Madness is a long ass story, really ponderous and atmospheric.

Two things:

1. You're way too honed in on the Alien as the Other. The entire point of Prometheus is to allude to grander things at work, which when put to scale vs the unknowable identity of the Alien initially, is an extremely intriguing concept.

2. You're comparing vastly different mediums to one another. Film can accomplish things neither literature nor low-budget, LCD television can due to its monopoly on ambitious visual interpretation. Therefore, I think Covenant and, more importantly, any direct sequels to Prometheus are incredibly exciting. Obviously YMMV, but you really should stop comparing different avenues of imagination to one another.

Is it action packed? Don't really want to watch something more like Aliens. If it has even half of the paranoia Fincher put into Zodiac, though, then sign me the fuck up.

It's fine to simply read his work in chronological order, right?

That's how I did it and I still loved the shit out of it

>You're way too honed in on the Alien as the Other

Yes, because this is exactly how 1979's Alien presents it. The creature presents one shock after another to the hapless human beings who are mystified by the bizarre gestation and biological processes of the alien. Furthermore, the design of the alien is catered towards triggering responses from every base fear. Its colouration as camouflage in shadow, its faceless distended head (this is a very important factor), its body resembling both an insect and a human corpse, its tail betraying an atavistic and animalistc aspect, and fact it's just bigger than you. It's horror is all of this, all of it to reduce human beings back into prey animals. You're on your big mini ship flying in the depths of space, master of technology, and all of a sudden, you're thrown back into a very primal situation with something you cannot understand or quantify. The alien is designed for this so utterly perfectly that tacking on origins and explanations is completely unaware of what makes it iconic.

>You're comparing vastly different mediums to one another

I am comparing stories and concepts. I can't compare cinematography with paragraph spacing. I'm talking about the stories of these works and how they present their concepts within them. For me, Aliens and Prometheus have absolutely nothing going for them except for an iconic monster design that has nothing to do with their stories.

The latter half of the movie has a bit more action than I care for; nobody fights the xeno, as in Aliens, but there is some running as they try and lure it into traps. I think that the first half will raise your expectations for the film, just understand that the story reaches its high point and then is lazily carried by action bits until the conclusion. The first few deaths ought to feel good, but by the end you'll just be satisfied with the movie, rather than impressed - which, bear in mind, is more than I can say for either of the first two movies. Culturally, I love them for what they've done. As movies they're mediocre.

You can, nothing's really connected. He's very self referential, but that's not to build a setting or make a chronology, it's to give verisimilitude to his horror stories, to make it seem like he's referencing an actual real bulk of mythology. A lot of stuff now attributed to him were stories he ghost wrote for other authors, so even though they'd appear under someone else's name, he'd still sneak in references to his own stuff, and people who didn't know Lovecraft worked with Zealia Bishop would read about R'lyeh in two totally unconnected stories and assume it was a real world thing. Smart lad. He and his writer buddies would also reference each other constantly, too.

Sounds like you're just off-put by the universe being expanded on rather than contained as a single story with no light at the end of the tunnel. That's great, but it's very subjective criticism.

On the other hand, it's objectively true that the story concept of unknown or known forces mightier than the human race exist, but very rarely has it been successfully executed in a visual medium. Towards that respect, it's unfair to call Prometheus hackneyed; it has set out to accomplish what is unfurling as a unique story. You're just hastily judging it when it's purportedly not even close to being finished.

One is more broody and serious. One is fun and action-packed.

Both are all-time greats. It just depends on which you're in the mood for at the moment.

>lovecraftian
you fucking child

you mean cosmic horror

>Alien 3 apologists

something must exist for someone to be an apologist of it

I would be less irritated were Prometheus presenting to me an idea with a spin I hadn't seen before. Precursor races are a dime a dozen in sci-fi and the Engineers are no different. In fact, Halo, a game inspired by Aliens, had the Forerunners something like over a decade before Prometheus was a twinkle in Ridley Scott's eye. And before them both was Lovecraft's Mountains of Madness where a hyperadvanced alien species is responsible for life on Earth and left behind their genetically engineered black goo slave race that went rogue. What I need is something more than just godlike precursors with supertech because this is all Prometheus gave me with a Giger-esque coat of paint.

Alien executed the idea of unknown, inhospitable forces better than most iconic horror films, and is a shining beacon of the sadly underused space horror subgenre. I hold it in very high regard, I'll fully admit that, but only because it really is a great film and the attempts made to expand its setting seem to not really care for what made it so interesting in the first place.

Both of these, 3, and Alien vs. Predator were the best and ONLY Alien movies that exist IMO.

>gung-ho heroes of Resurrection
lol

Alien has Lovecraftian concepts, but it's not on the whole a fully Lovecraftian film. The fact the company knew there was some alien shit out there mars the more Lovecraftian set up of an accidental discovery of a wider universe. It's cosmic horror in general more than it is specifically Lovecraftian, although some elements of that are to be found within. It is a legitimate thing to say, moreso than what people these days think Lovecraftian actually means.

Yeah, I definitely get it, man. I watched Aliens fully for the first time last night and was pretty disappointed by such a fascinating mythos being reduced to a "bug hunt," as Cameron himself puts it.

However, I enjoyed Prometheus quite a bit. I think Ridley asked a lot of ambitious questions, and as someone who hasn't been exposed to much in the way of interstellar ancestors through video games or literature, I'm looking forward to how he plans on answering them. I think you can at least agree that the current installation is not doomed for you as a whole just yet, right?

Aliens by far.

Aliens is a very serious movie. It just has a lot of memorable humorous lines.

How so? Alien is literally better in every aspect

Moon

Personally, I remember coming out the cinema after seeing Prometheus and getting more annoyed the more I talked and thought about it. To this day I'm pretty decidedly not a fan of the film. I can have fun with Aliens, I have beef with it, but it's still fun. Prometheus wasn't so fun, and I think it's telling that Alien: Covenant isn't being called Prometheus 2 or Paradise.

I hope Covenant is good, I hope it shows some awareness, I sincerely do, but I won't lie, I'm pretty pessimistic about it at this stage. Seeing the alien as you do in the trailer, although I know it's a marketing gimmick, bothers me.

Unironically Das Boot, even though its not about science fiction or aliens or space.

If it wasn't for Cameron, Alien sequels would have become diminishing return slasher flicks in space. And for all 3 and Resurrections flaws, they also avoid this trap. Ridley, for some fucking reason, is now doing exactly that with Covenant.

I'm not worried about the renaming—after all, Ridley said he envisions six more movies if all goes well, which gives plenty of time for him to tell the story he wants, regardless of what the films are called.

I agree, seeing a fully CGI alien landing on top of a spacecraft and leering at the protagonist(s) in broad daylight was weird. At the same time, I'm curious to see what they can do to further develop the Xenomorph's character through advances in motion capture. Some of the movements seen in the trailer (i.e. skittering on the walls in narrow hallways) were true to its nature, IMO.

This is true, sequels trying to cash in on what made the original great will always be shit. So instead of 10 shitty Alien sequels a'la Halloween or Jason we got 1 good action movie in Aliens and then shitty action sequels. Be happy the Alien universe birthed 2 great movies instead of 1. Its delusion to believe that Aliens robbed us of a long line of well executed space horror Alien sequels.

>Resurrection
not a slasher flick but had diminishing returns and was in space

You can always just each Alien 2.

This is rumour control, here are the facts. Alien3 is the quintessential Alien film and rape me/preggo Ripley beats hide/cry Ripley and marine Ripley.

I'm having a hard time seeing an 8 film epic actually make it to the end. You know, Lost was originally supposed to have 12 seasons. I assume he wants it to lead up directly to minutes before Alien begins. I'm not sure I like that idea, to be honest.

The other thing you have to be careful of, which is pointless now since we've seen so much of it, is showing too much of the monster. Only seeing bits of it and flashes of it add to its presence, and the shot of it straddled atop some ship in the trailer tells me immediately this isn't a horror film, nor is it likely to contain any real elements of horror. It'll be tense, but you can be tense without being scary.

Moon is in the same universe as Alien (and Blade Runner). That's why it's similar.

You just know

Like it's been said - Carpenter's The Thing is better. But really there is NOTHING WRONG with liking both. Equally even.

The first one is a masterpiece, the other is a good action movie.

I like both for different reasons. I think they're both pretty different movies.

Yeah, those are valid concerns. Thankfully, we'll find out quite soon just how well Ridley can execute something this dicey. I'm cautiously optimistic he'll pull it off if 1) the screenwriters are good; 2) there isn't significant studio interference.

Wtf are you me

If it wasn't made by James Cameron, Sup Forums who have shit on Aliens.

>good
>action movie

This,

Alien. Cameron turned them into easily killable bugs.

Both cosmic horror. It makes sense.

Plus Cameron totally pussied out on the fact the aliens were inherently embodiment of "the fear of homosexual oral rape".

Imagine throwing that kind of organism at an 80s macho military.

I dislike "Aliens" because it betrays the sexual horror of "Alien" (which is androgyny, "birth = death", and males' fear of being raped by other males).

Unironically the last good Alien Movie : youtu.be/sv-3m8dr5Yg

Although, in fairness, we have only seen one male being chestbursted in the proper "Alien" franchise.

"Alien: Resurrection" tried to recapture the fucked-up sexuality of the aliens, but it still left out the key part: the aliens prey on men too.

...

Hell, even fucking Fincher couldn't get this right in "Alien 3".

You put the embodiment of omnisexual rape in a facility full of human male rapists....and the movie does nothing with this irony.

The Xenomorphs are always about rape.

If anything, Cameron really fucked up the aliens. He made them FAMILIAR. He gave them a hive-structure. He made them pretty stupid. He gave them a queen. He made them relatable to us, which they must never be.

They're meant to be as far from our understanding of sexual norms as possible. Birth is death; and sexuality is indiscriminate universal rape, androgyny and violence.

The brilliance is that it's never spelled out for us. But instinctively, we know something is seriously off about the aliens. We know subconsciously these things are fucked-up.

Yeah, Rob Ager did a pretty funny segment about it, watch it :

youtu.be/M__6IKp2E68

I don't understand why there are so much appreciation for Alien movies. The first movie was good, the second too. But he rest has been shit. Prometheus was good also, I like it when I watched it in the cinema but there is nothing special about this movies anymore.

It's a fucking monster over an over again killing people in a ship. The new movie is basically like the first movie. They developed the characters and then somebody gets infected and then the monster appears and kills them.

It's like the terminator movies. Their story is dead, is wasted.

The only reason people keep going to the cinema to watch them is because they have good effects, for the accion, some for nostalgia to see the alien again and because people that doesn't know a shit about which movie watch they see ALIEN and is a title they already know and think it's a good movie, a safe election.

Post-script: "Alien" should have not have cut out the scene of a human transforming into an egg so a facehugger from it can latch onto a cocooned human.

It would have been harder for the sequels to ruin the xenomorphs with the scene in, showing how truly fucked-up they were.

The sequels abandoned the inherent but unspoken sexual creepiness of the alien's design and behavior.

>93 replies
>no Daisy
I'm disappointed Sup Forums

Alien is a genuinely classic horror movies whose setting and monster work on several different levels from faceless evil corporatism, to a cold hostile universe, isolation, humans turned back into prey, perverted sexuality, alien sexuality and primal animal fear. It's just a really good fucking movie.

Aliens people like for the action and Bill Paxton one-liners and because it pretty much shaped how the franchise is perceived these days. Alien left a mark of horror, but Aliens' big macho space marine sci-fi action left a mark that is debatable as to whether it was fortunate or not.

...

I consider "Aliens" a bad move because it gave us the reassurance that if we just had enough guns, we could repel the monster (never mind the fact the aliens were rendered stupid in "Aliens").

"Alien" xenomorphs would never charge into gunfire.

>DONE PERFECTLY
>THAT FUCKING JUMP CUT STRAIGHT OUT OF A FUCKING SCHOOL PROJECT

uh no

Which jump cut?