Pay Equality

I'm here with my lady friend, and we're having a debate. She's not being a bitch about it, but she's made some good points.

What does Sup Forums think of pay equality?

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rule34.paheal.net/post/view/1885718
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap
eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/epa.cfm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Equity is not equality

>but she's made some good points.
0/10
there are no good arguments for a false point

Maybe if Wonder Woman sold as many Comics and Batman and Superman, she'd make as much money as them

The wage gap is bullshit. Women make less money for a variety of reasons, such as working fewer hours, working in lower paid positions and career fields, having higher worker turnover, ect.

Earnings are different than wages.

Women actually earn a slightly higher wage in the same positions as men. They just generally choose to work jobs with fewer hours, or stay at home more once they have children.

It's not normal or natural for women to have/want high-power, high-paying careers.

>but she's made some good points
No she didn't because pay inequality is bullshit.
If woman did the exact same job for less money why would ANYONE employ men?

If women do the same work as men for 70% of the pay, why would a company ever hire a man?

Can someone please post the pay gap infographic? My mom and sister believe that crap. I don't argue with my family about politics or convert them like some people here but I'd like to be able to bring up actual facts next time I meet a stranger who believes it.

PAY EQUALITY MEME IS LITERALLY INCOME DIVIDED BY NUMBER OF PEOPLE

MORE WOMEN TEND TO BE STAY AT HOME MOMS OR GET SHIT DEGREES AND SHIT JOBS BECAUSE THEY'D RATHER GET FUCKED ALL NIGHT IN COLLEGE THAN ACTUALLY STUDYING FOR A GOOD DEGREE

MORE FUCKING NEWS AT 11

What are some of these "good points"?

...

Average earnings of all men and women is not an indicator of individuals being discriminated

>woman
>valid points
Pick one

Women earn less over the course of their lives because they choose to. Not because of some sexist conspiracy.

The statistic is false because it has not been corrected for the fact that women choose lower-paying jobs, negotiate for lower wages, and work fewer hours over the course of their lives, and many retire early to have children. Once you adjust for those factors, the gap narrows to effectively nothing.

The myth has nevertheless been perpetuated by feminists and female politicians who need it to keep existing in order to justify their wages.

Politely tell your lady friend that she is wrong, and she has always been wrong.

She's saying that it goes deeper than that: That there are gender roles that are more traditional for men that they are for women. She cited the military as an example.

I NEED MORE HELP, GUISE! LEND ME YOUR STRENGTH!

>saving the thumbnail

John and Jane both work at Corptron.
Corptron pays both John and Jane $20 per hour.
John works 50 hours a week and Jane works 40 hours a week.
Should John and Jane's paychecks be equal?

That's the pay gap in a nutshell.

Forgot to put the main basher of the pay gap. The reason people think there is a pay gap is that they take the average pay of ALL men, and put it up against the average pay of ALL woman, not taking in any factors, such as position or job.

>trying to change a woman's victim mentality

You must be under 20

>free will does not exist
That's cute.

>That there are gender roles that are more traditional for men that they are for women.
Tell her she is completely right. That the only way to fix it is by quotas. And that's the State is now re-assigning her to be a driller of oil wells. All of her female children will be assigned to that profession until the patriarchy is slain and 50% of all drillers of oil wells are female.

>gender roles
Did you tell her that her military example falls under biology? And that women literally need the standards lowered for them because they fail at simple Physical tests that the average fighting age man can pass easily.
Or is she going to say "biology is sexist!", because that's the point.

Like all feminists, she is assuming women have no personal agency. Women consistently choose lower paying jobs of their own free will, as there they value other qualities than pure earning potential.

it doesn't exist. unless there is a women exclusive gold mining or petrol drilling company.

The COMSAD study literally disproves the existence of a discrimination-based pay gap. Most of it is different choices in the job market. Women have different time preferences to men and value different things. Men are more inclined to do stupid shit for money.

>Politely tell your lady friend that she is wrong, and she has always been wrong.
Bro...you're going to have it that I'll never get ass again.

She's a supervisor at her job (management firm) and she found out recently that the person she's training (male) is actually making more than she is, and she's got 3 years in the company and they just strolled-in off the street. Same educational background for both.

I really don't need this shit right now...I'm already having a fucking horrible day.

You owe me one.

rule34.paheal.net/post/view/1885718
check the date stamp

earnings gap is not a wage gap

>She's a supervisor at her job (management firm) and she found out recently that the person she's training (male) is actually making more than she is, and she's got 3 years in the company and they just strolled-in off the street. Same educational background for both.
Sure she is.

>I'll have to agree with her blatantly erroneous points or she'll stop having sex with me!

Congratulations, you're contributing to the central reason behind the success of feminism.

I'm just trying to have a normal fucking day. At this point I really need to put her in check. I'm raging so bad right now I really don't care about the sex anymore.

My friend is VERY smart (engineering degree) and I kinda feel it's my fault for bringing this on myself. I'm just not attracted to dumb bimbos.

Thanks based user!

Even the Wikipedia page on the Wage Gap says that when adjusted, it's 94%, and the remaining 6% is mostly negotiating skills:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap

There is not a single example where a woman is getting paid less money for the exact same job as a man for the same amount of work, for the same amount of time.

One of my grandmothers was a nurse, she was chief of nurses or whatever, and got paid the most out all the nursing staff, including male nurses.

My other Grandmother had her own company, and then went to work for another company as a consultant on the side. She was the highest paid at her company obviously, and fourth highest paid at the one she worked for.

My mom sales dental supplies to dentist at a statewide dental supply firm. She is currently only second to the CEO in pay.

So, the wage gap is horseshit. It has all to do with how you apply yourself in life, and the fact of the matter is, most woman DON'T try as hard as men because if you are a good looking, or even an average looking woman, you'll always have the house wife backup to fall back to as security. Men don't have such luxury, nor are we allowed to take things like "maternity leave" and expect to have a job when we get back.

How does that have anything to do with the pay gap myth?

She is free to work whatever the fuck work she want(As long as she is capable of doing it, like any other human being)
The reason that the "hard most paying jobs" are dominated by males and "easy, low paying jobs" are dominated by females is that females are lazy, its only their own choice.

>She's a supervisor at her job (management firm) and she found out recently that the person she's training (male) is actually making more than she is, and she's got 3 years in the company and they just strolled-in off the street. Same educational background for both.
It's illegal to do this, if it was true she'd sue them long time ago because its a sure win.

eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/epa.cfm

>smart woman

Did you also find bigfoot?

>artist thinks wonder woman gets paid for being in the justice league
>not being in the justice league because you are an exemplar of heroism

The mind of women.

OP CONFIRMED NUMALE

ABANDON THREAD

Why are you defending a point that you don't have enough information on to form your own opinions?

>flag

Oh, it's just another identity politics obsessed American

>It's illegal to do this, if it was true she'd sue them long time ago because its a sure win.
She's saying she actually did consider suing.

BUT bringing this up has calmed the waters. Thanks, based Nordic bro!

That's the thing: Women like her are so rare, I really don't want to fuck this up.

>been there 3 years

That's her problem. Our culture nowadays, in terms of jobs and careers in everything, does not reward loyalty to any one company - they only reward people who constantly, aggressively move around. This is especially true in places like Silicon Valley. As an anecdote, I've never worked a job for longer than a year and a month - and yet I make more money than my peers, who have worked at my current company for years.

You have to be willing to move around. To change. To threaten your current employer and say "Listen, I can go make more money here, doing less work. What are YOU going to do about it?" And if they won't respect you, move on.

This isn't a gender problem. This is a problem with comfort. Tell her to start looking for a new job (which she should easily be able to do if she's as qualified as she says), make sure she gets to the interview process, then have her tell her current company that she's received an offer from another company - and that if they don't at LEAST match what she wants, she's out.

I made a 17% raise doing that just recently.

Welcome to the new millennium - loyalty is for shitters.

Equal pay for equal work is a great concept. Unfortunately retards and people with agenda's do a complete analysis of ALL the work done in the country, ASSUME that its completely equal, and then complain women are only making 70%.

When you adjust for hours worked, dangerous jobs, commitment to higher paying jobs over pleasant working conditions, etc, the "wage gap" basically disappears.

I'm pretty sure if you are paying women less for doing the exact same job you can already be sued under current law, but, big fucking surprise, pretty much no one does that.

>implying I just sit around thinking all day about pay inequality

Fucking based user. This makes a LOT of fucking sense. I shared this with her and it's cooled her temper, but she's still pretty bummed.

I don't think it's right that her company is treating her like shit like they are. I don't agree. I for one can vouch that she's an excellent worker and very good at her job. She doesn't deserve the way they're treating her, BUT, you,sir, have made an excellent point.

>the day Sup Forums actually helped get a dude out of the doghouse
I will nevar forget!

Of course, I might also be biased because I'm tapping it.

This entirely. I give a place max 6 months to give me a raise, and if they don't, I move on. Don't even give two weeks notice, because your time isn't worth it.

>buh muh blacklist

Complete myth and scaretactic created by the jews to keep cheap labor on longer.

Notice she doesn't use her lasso on him at all, even they know they can't accept the actual truth.

>implying you should be fully for or against a subject without understanding it

This is you

I REALLY DONT LIKE THIS THING BECAUSE YOU GUYS DONT! BUT CAN YOU TELL ME WHY I DONT LIKE IT.

Has she tried actually going in and demanding a raise or she walks?

Employers don't just hand people raises.

70% of 0 is 0 so yes.
Although batman puts a lot of money in the league so her zero is more than his negative.

Why would Wonder Woman ask BRUCE FUCKING WAYNE a question as to whether she gets paid the same amount?
And Superman works for peanuts at the Daily Bugle. Maybe WW should go get a real job like the rest of them and quit complaining!

I think we already have it

work the same hours, take time off the same as men do, take the same length of vacations and never take maternity leave and the ratio is 1 to 1

If woman could be paid less then women would have all the jobs because it'd be cheaper for employers to hire them.

...

Also Lois Lany makes more money than Clark Kent does, because she's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, and Clark is just a beat reporter.

I'm not going to rebut that. What I'm saying is that no, I really didn't have a position on the matter, and all I had was anons here saying that pay equality is just a meme.

My GF isn't normally a bitch. But today, she came at me pretty hard about it and I didn't have a position to give, except, "I've heard it was all bullshit you're making-up in your head".

I feel like she's getting a shit deal, for sure. BUT, she is the one that came at me all ready to debate about it. I have no idea where it came from.

That's the thing: She's been very vocal about getting the last few pay raises they've given her thus far. This situation is making her think that they're training her replacement.

What makes this all even more frustrating is that I earn enough that if she falls on hard times I can help cover her expenses. But she insists on making good on her degree and earning her way up the corporate ladder, and I have mixed feelings that part of me is proud but another part of me is extremely annoyed by it, and I'm caught in the middle.

And fellas, some of you know what it's like to have to comfort a woman when they're being irrational. That's bad enough but she also has a good point.

>People in the Justice League getting paid
FUCKING NORMALFAGS STOP USING THINGS THAT YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF JUST TO SHOVE YOUR RETARDED AGENDAS

LEAVE COMICS, ANIME, AND VIDYA ALONE!!!!!!

[insert multiple r's followed by multiple e's here]

>What does Sup Forums think of pay equality?
It goes both ways for various reasons. Stop being an uninformed faggot.

>lady friend
C U C K
U
C
K

>implying I just sit around thinking all day about pay inequality
Nice infographic, tho.

>*as opposed to virgin cuck
I'll take it.

>My GF isn't normally a bitch.

she is, all women are 100% of the time, they just hide it behind a vaneer of s mile when they think they can get away with something with a smile rather than their true selves

>I feel like she's getting a shit deal, for sure.

managers have been training their replacements since the dawn of mankind

The end result of that being that they make 70% of what men make. Obviously, if you isolate all the variables that cause the wage gap the wage gap mostly goes away. The idea is that many, most, or all of these variables could occur from sexism or women trying to live up to societal expectations instead of true personal choice

maternity leave is not sexism, its biologically caused

taking more vacations is not sexism; its the womans fault

taking more sick days is biological AND the womans fault cause they make ever sniff and cough out to be sometyhing more than it is

Tell her to remember to use addblock plus to get rid of triggering images. Block one block all.

> The idea is that many, most, or all of these variables could occur from sexism or women trying to live up to societal expectations instead of true personal choice

That's the claim that's questionable, you faggot.

>actually defending being a cuck
Wew lad

Lots of feminists are misinformed on their own issues, that argument sucks and it always sucked.

The real argument is that women seem to be making less money than men for a variety of reasons, they work fewer hours, work in lower paid positions and career fields, have higher worker turnover, etc... why? Why are women by and large not motivated to have or want high-power, high-paying careers? Perhaps many would if they weren't discouraged at every turn, subtly or otherwise. Perhaps if men weren't expected to be powerful and women weren't expected to be weak and take care of the kids more people would be self-actualizing. Maybe if we test this it will end up working out the same way again. Its a theory, its kinda unfalsifiable, but worth testing.

Women already get paid equally. It turns out that women take more time off work to do things. If you look at statistics on men who take the same amount of time off work, surprise surprise, they get paid 70% as well.

Even NPR, which is notoriously liberal leaning, had a bit on this fact.

Yeah that's horseshit, you can't call a person's personal choices sexism by proxy. "Internalized mysoginy" is the same as saying "women are too dumb to think for themselves" it's basically just scary words made to convince women that even when they make their choices it's due to sexism, and therefore they are victims. Any real, intelligent, self respecting, truly independent woman can see through this for the pathetic joke it is.

You mean like how women are taking over STEM degrees while men still dominate things like construction?

The fact of the matter is that women do NOT want to do certain jobs, and men do not want to do other jobs.

What does she say about women dominating the nursing field, even though men would be better suited for the heavy lifting of patients?

The fact of the matter is that women have agency in today's market. They can pick to do what they want, and they do. Just because some jobs have a disparity doesn't mean its because of sexism.

>What does Sup Forums think of pay equality?

A myth that is the result of women taking lower-paying jobs and lower-pay for the same positions.

Women do not argue for higher pay brackets like men do. Men attempt to be competitive, women take what is given to them. There is nothing stopping a woman from trying to negotiate a higher salary other than the biological need to be non-confrontational.

>What does Sup Forums think of pay equality?

Sup Forums is against it. Women should earn less for same work.

Denying maternity leave disproportionately affects women than men.

Why do men and women take different amounts of vacations? Doesn't matter who's fault it is. I'm not here to assign blame. They might take more vacations due to being expected to take care of the kid or because they are encouraged to not pursue powerful, high paying positions so they don't care as much about their job. That is what people mean by institutional sexism.

> taking more sick days is biological AND the womans fault cause they make ever sniff and cough out to be sometyhing more than it is

Yeah, cause women are expected to be weak. People tend to live up to expectations.

> B-b-but its their FAULT

Individuals can overcome adversity but you can't use the existence of outliers to justify senselessly placing adversity on an entire group. If you want to change society it doesn't matter what people CAN do it matters what people WILL do. Stress a group, they perform worse overall.

>Denying maternity leave disproportionately affects women than men.

Different choices have different outcomes.

It's not sexist, it's reality. If you don't want to deal with it, just kill yourself.

>Denying maternity leave disproportionately affects women than men.

women stuff their cunt with penis, its no ones fault but their own unless they were raped. So i dont see how its sexism

>Why do men and women take different amounts of vacations?

cause women are pansies and like to take two week vacations

>hey might take more vacations due to being expected to take care of the kid

or see above

>or because they are encouraged to not pursue powerful, high paying positions so they don't care as much about their job

awww did the bad man say you arent as good as he is? you poor thing, better do as he says and not try in life. Newsflash thaat happens to men just as much if not more. We get over it


>Yeah, cause women are expected to be weak.

heres the cure to that. Ignore it and take vacations when you want to and for as long as you want. Which they do.

Victim complex much?

>Individuals can overcome adversity but you can't use the existence of outliers to justify senselessly placing adversity on an entire group.


oh no! adversity! we should stop doing the same to women as men have had done to them for the last 100,000 years.


We should make EVERYTHING EASIER on women cause they have cunts. That way we truly are equal.....wait what?

>you can't call a person's personal choices sexism by proxy

Its not a free choice if the choices you tend to make are manipulated from birth. People tend to live up to expectations.

> "Internalized mysoginy" is the same as saying "women are too dumb to think for themselves"

The fact that people tend to live up to expectations justifies the idea of internalized misogyny. No one can think for themselves, our thoughts are a reflection of our society.

Just cause certain individuals can see through it and make more rational choices doesn't excuse the manipulation of the entire group. Most people won't see through it. Like seriously even you are admitting that there is sexism, just that you can "see through it" and not have it impact your behavior, but realistically its almost impossible to tell the difference between what you are manipulated to want and what you actually want.

What did she say?

Ok so why is one group of humans making trending to make these different choices to such a large extent? JUST biology? Prove it.

>Its not a free choice if the choices you tend to make are manipulated from birth. People tend to live up to expectations.

you almost made a smart statement here


Yes, its called your DNA that holds sway over your actions in life

>The fact that people tend to live up to expectations justifies the idea of internalized misogyny.


no thats DNA again, were a sexually dimorphic species, and theres no denying it

>Just cause certain individuals can see through it and make more rational choices doesn't excuse the manipulation of the entire group.

DNA doesnt care

Not an argument.

get out Stefan

>thirsty faggots want to justify feminism in hopes of getting laid

wow what a surprise

Prove it. Oh wait, you can't. Men and women haven't been proven to be that significantly different mentally, in fact science points the other way that we are pretty much the same. So try again.

...

they've been proven to be different biologically time and again you raging autist

feminists are worse than creationists at this point.

okay thats easy

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA


TADA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here ill prove I'm not an SJW

Faggot nigger never forget the 6 trillion make america great again

I'm only a feminist because its philosophically sound.

You realize that men and women both have DNA? Sex is just one possible difference out of countless. It shouldn't be having such a massive impact on society.

I said you're thirsty you dipshit not that you're an SJW

>I'm only a feminist because its philosophically sound.

kek

Nope! Go do some more research.

>Justice League
>getting paid
that defeats the whole purpose of heroic sacrifice. Wonder Woman isn't paid to be a hero, just like Superman and Batman aren't paid to be heroes.
Liberals ruin fucking comic books.

> Why are women by and large not motivated to have or want high-power, high-paying careers? Perhaps many would if they weren't discouraged at every turn, subtly or otherwise.

Because bitches are bitches.

>You realize that men and women both have DNA?

indeed, only theres differences in the DNA between men and women

>It shouldn't be having such a massive impact on society.

DNA encodes your behaviours, your instincts, your body structure, your genetic diseases, your lineage, your bloodline, and various other things
are you 12?

...

>Ok so why is one group of humans making trending to make these different choices to such a large extent? JUST biology? Prove it.

No, you have the burden of proof.

>there are no differences based on sex

I can't believe this is the modern world

>in fact science points the other way that we are pretty much the same.

No, it doesn't.

If I was thirsty I would go wear a this is what a feminist looks like t-shirt in san fransisco instead of spending all my time on Sup Forums.

read this thread, we had a caninist this morning here on Sup Forums.