So if the Worm Hole was created by 'Them' which ends up actually being McConaughey...

So if the Worm Hole was created by 'Them' which ends up actually being McConaughey. How did the Worm Hole open up in the first place?

Yes the books falling was gravity being unaffected by time directed by McConaughey, the tesseract was an endless reflection of a few moments in time in which McConaughey could interact with his daughter.

It's clear that his 'love' has given him the ability to do these things in the black hole - but how did the worm hole open up in the first place?

If time is non-linear but still follows a path, without it ever being open in the first place he would never have been in the black hole, and without him being in the black hole he wouldn't be able to distort time through the use of gravity.

So he couldn't have opened that worm hole, how did it open?

>2deep4me

>How did the Worm Hole open up in the first place?
The 5th dimensional love ayy lmaos created it. Its called a causal loop. It only appears to be a a paradox when you percieve time as linear.
Coop travelsinto the black hole, gets the info he needsto send to his daughter, she finishes the anti grav equations, moves humanity into space. They evolve into aliens, create the conditions in the past that lets coop get to the black hole to get the data he needs to send back, so that they can continue to exist.
This is temporal mechanics 101 stuff son.

>Coop travelsinto the black hole, gets the info he needsto send to his daughter, she finishes the anti grav equations, moves humanity into space.

Yeah but the thing is, all of this only happens if the Worm Hole was opened first? It only gets opened because of love ayy lmaos, but love ayy lmaos can't be created if he doesn't get to the black hole which can only be reached through the Worm Hole.

It isn't like he got into the black hole then made the Worm Hole because it needed to exist before he got to the black hole, otherwise he couldn't have gotten there.

>user's first causality paradox

Again, user, the beings who created it don't perceive time as linear. They exist outside of 3 dimensional spacetime.

Ok but let me get this straight.

The Worm Hole WASN'T created by McConaughey?

If that is the case, it was created by future humans as you say.

But what I'm saying is that there wouldn't be future humans if this Worm Hole didn't exist to begin with.

It doesn't matter if time is past, present or future. McConaghey didn't influence the past without getting into that black hole, via the Worm Hole.

That Worm Hole isn't created unless he gets into the black hole. He doesn't get into that black hole unless the Worm Hole is created. The Worm Hole is created by future humans - if not by him - because he got into the black hole ---- but there are no future humans or Worm Hole unless he gets to the black hole, which he can't do because there isn't a Worm Hole.

We know, Interstellar is trash.

It's just a dumb good-looking blockbuster, quit trying to analyse it like it's 2001.

It's a fundamentally dumb movie that glosses over huge plot holes and illogical behavior by being well acted, directed and produced.

Time is fixed. These events were always going to happen and could not have happened any other way.

>well acted, directed
let's not jump the gun here

>babies first temporal paradox

People in the far future opened that wormhole, not McConaughey himself.

That wormhole ride was one of the best cinema experiences ever.

The analog 2D IMAX felt more 3D than 3D.

I enjoyed the film, all I'm trying to understand is if there really was a fallacy at work here.

But what I'm trying to address is simple. How did people survive into the far future, how could Murph have gotten the data from McConaughey, how could they get to a point WHICH RELIED on there being a Worm Hole first.

See, the Worm Hole opens. It is opened by future people, the reason is because they have the means because McConaughey went through it to begin with, right? But that's the problem, this future scenario doesn't happen if McConaughey doesn't get into the black hole, which is impossible without there being a Worm Hole.

It's annoying because people keep falling on this 'fixed time' idea. It's not like the story works in reverse. The Worm Hole exists because of future people, they only exist because he went through the hole -- but time IS fixed. There are no future people because they are on a dying planet without the answers, there isn't a Worm Hole because they McConaughey didn't get to the black hole BECAUSE there is no Worm Hole.

That's what it boils down to, that is the hiccup in the story. In reality, there is no Worm Hole because for there to be a Worm Hole, there needs to be a Worm Hole to begin with. I feel people are sitting behind the artistic license but pretending it's 'fixed time' or blah blah theory or whatever.

But the truth in the matter is simple, the Worm Hole couldn't have been made before they had the means to make it, time isn't reversing.

>why can't I perceive time in a non-linear fashion?

Because you're a 3. dimensional being, get over it.

The future always existed. You're not thinking four dimensionally.

why did the ayy lmaos open the worm hole to begin with?

don't tell me some DUDE TIME NOT LINEAR so in the future we need to save us in the past or we never exist bullshit

It was actually "them".

Nolan fuck it up per usual.

This basically Same as Arrival.

Past, present and future, dont really exist, every event exists always and we just perceive them linearly and put the connections beetween them.

Exactly, we perceive time like a highway. Just because I can't see the other end of it doesn't mean it isn't already there.

Great effects
Good acting
Bad script

a solid 7.5/10, 8/10 if you like sci-fi like me

only way the movie works is for the wormhole to have always been there. Brand and crew go through it (without coop) brand goes straight to edmund's because love, humanity dies out on earth, brand's descendants evolve into bulk beings, those bulk being start clumsily trying to get humanity through the wormhole earlier and give earth gravity magic in time to save more humans. The latter is why coop was necessary. Then coop cowboys the entire mission into just about total failure.

Bootstrap paradox.

/thread

Time travel is just an excuse for lazy writing

When you percieve time non-linearly, you experience the past, present and the future at the same "time". All the decisions are interconnected and dependent on each other. The future exists just like the past, it isn't just a series of events that happen linearly

Are you a child or a retard? He literally says time isn't linear in his post and your entire argument is "but time is linear."

What? The fictional story has holes in it?!Impossible!

nah, just going "etz uh paradox" is lazy writing. Time travel can be done well.

With that line of thinking though it's like the story starts with the ending and works itself backwards to make sense.

For example if I said to myself that I want to be a AAA list movie star but I'm actually a lazy fat NEET, achieving that would be near impossible - but if I somehow could start off as an AAA list movie star but had to work backwards to the point I was originally at, it wouldn't be impossible.

If that is the case, if that means humans went to the brink of extinction and struggle only to never have to worry because there is a future in which we're totally masters of spess n shit - how is that possible.

It's like a story with a beginning and an ending but no middle.

>The future always existed.

In the film we're at the end of our tether, we're going to die. We need to find 'our' future. How do we find it? Worm Hole.

But the Worm Hole is there because we DID find our future - but we only found it because of the Worm Hole - you see but if we're talking about 'the first revision' of time, there isn't going to be a Worm Hole for us to get into.

It's like what is the difference in sitting in a ship in space and wishing for a solution to our problem and poof a fucking solution works itself out.

It would make sense if there were any other way to get the data needed, but there isn't. It relies on the Worm Hole, and it can't exist without them first getting that data. Everyone saying 'the future already existed, we already had the means because the story happened'. In the story we were fucked without that Worm Hole. It poofed into existence, because apparently we DID make it.

But this is what you aren't seeing, linear time or not, that data had to be acquired and transmitted through the means we see in the film - this is what allows us to survive into the future -- but before we had that data originally there couldn't have been a worm hole.

It's a beginning and an ending BUT NO FUCKING MIDDLE.

He is not the first McConaughey going down that wormhole probably

I suppose you know this from personal experience.

>why can I still not perceive what living in the 4. dimension would be like?

Retard

You've been given an answer and now you're just repeating yourself. We get it, you don't understand it, move on with your life.

You don't understand it yourself, all you do is rationalise it like unfathomable.

If you still can't wrap your head around the concept just google "nonlinear time perception", we can't help you anymore.

user, you are not getting it, it is a paradox from our point of view, it should not be possible. You're asking for a starting point, if time isn't linear, then their isn't one. For these beings humans are not simply the past version of themselves because they can percieve time in a non linear fashion

>brainlets like this are keeping us from becoming 5th dimensional love ayys

Watch Arrival, they beat your head with the exposition on non linearity there so you maybe that will help you understand.

non-linear perception of time doesn't mean you can just do whatever #yolo.

If the wormhole is necessary for human survival and humans need to survive to make the wormhole, then there is no way for the wormhole to exist. Its a reverse grandfather paradox, and its not even a paradox, as its something that doesn't exist creating the means of it's own existence. Where the classic paradox is something that does exist preventing it's existence, but still needing to exist to prevent it's existence.

Basically the movie is just really shittily written and you're either an idiot for defending it or doing it for attention.

It's a simple fucking concept, dipshit. I'd think you were trolling this whole time except for your hugely drawn out replies that all could be summed up as "I don't get it."

The only unfathomable thing here is how much of a braindead dullard you are.

>non-linear perception of time doesn't mean you can just do whatever #yolo.

No, but building a 5 dimensional tesseract does.

>I can't be the stupid one, everyone else is!

Why didn't they just make a movie about the first humans to invent wormholes and live into the far future

What you are saying is first there is only linear time and the non linear part starts only in the future.

But once you percieve time non linearly you percieve and act on it in all ways, not just from that point on.

a five dimensional tesseract would be a 7-9 dimensional object (depending on how you want to look at it) intersecting with a 5 dimensional space.

to say you don't know what the words you use mean

You are describing the problem linearly. What you are saying does not make sense either.

Mankind could not evolve into aliens unless they had the info. It is a paradox that has no explanation and can not work.

I don't know why it's so hard for everyone to understand my position on this.

It all comes down to the Worm Hole just appearing, let's agree that if the Worm Hole didn't appear, humanity would be dead, right?

That is the problem, we need to find a solution to our extinction. The planets we need to get to can only be reached through a Worm Hole.

Fortunately a Worm Hole exists at the right time and location, how it does this is because in the future we survive and essentially master space.

We are coming from the point of view of present time humans. The Worm Hole gives us the ability to see the events of the film unfold. During these events it by proxy gives the present time humans back on Earth (Old Murph) the data needed.

Humanity is saved, we go on to now no longer facing an extinction event, we have the necessary means now as future people to create the Worm Hole.

But this is where the confusion starts.

Worm Hole was created by future humans to help save past humans who would then become the future humans by surviving. But before we can get to that future where we are able to create the Worm Hole, McConaughey and team need to get into the Worm Hole whilst being past humans.

I don't know why it's so hard for everyone to understand this point of view. Essentially for past humans there couldn't have been a Worm Hole appear, as it relies on a future that hasn't happened yet.

For there to be future humans who survived and were able to create the Worm Hole, the past humans needed the data Old Murph gets.

All I'm trying to get to the bottom of is this, Is there actual non-bastardised science here or did Nolan bend it to his will true sci-fi style? Pls no bully.

>still trying to rationalize 4. dimensional perception of time

Not possible, give up before you give yourself a headache.

Ok, but can we agree that what we saw in the film wasn't actually a true depiction of four-dimensional space at work?

Literally everybody understands your position, they just also understand you're wrong.

We can agree on not being able to understand it even if it was.

It's time to accept that it was literally 2deep 4 u and move on.

>he thinks anyone on this planet knows what would a true depiction of four-dimensional space look like

user that's why it's just a concept, a theory. No one knows what would it be like for certain, there are only scientific guesses.

Holy fuck you really are a flaming autist
Everybody understands your point of view, but you are trying to explain how non-linearity as a concept is not possible, not just this event in the film itself.

>it relies on a future that hasn't happened yet
Yes, that is the whole concept of it.

It is the same paradox like the ayylmaos coming to Earth in Arrival because they know they will need help from humans in 3000 years
Again, it's not like the nonlinearity starts at some point in the future, it works in all ways and all events and decisions happen at the same "time" because there is no time as we know it.

So you're still saying the same thing and still not understanding why you're wrong.

You're basically saying since I'll eventually have non-linear perception of time, I can kill myself right now, and it doesn't matter, because my non-linear self will still exist.

uh, dude, its actually extremely easy to define 4D space.

x, y, z, w. Length, height, depth, 4th dimension. Literally any numbers of dimensions can be defined this way.

It's a causal loop that just exists from Coop's perspective. Maybe some higher dimensional being(s) created it but he wouldn't know.

No one said anything about definitions, we are talking about realistic depictions/representations of a four-dimension space, which ofcourse don't exist as a consensus "yep that's what a four dimensional space would look like"

It isn't McConaughey who built the wormhole.

So yeah go ahead and kill yourself my man