If Sub Saharan Africa hadn't been colonized and subjugated by the Europeans...

>If Sub Saharan Africa hadn't been colonized and subjugated by the Europeans, their culture and technology could have been equal (or greater).

Really? And the literal millennia before the colonizers came? What about that? Where was any advancement beyond mud and stick fighting?

If humans originated in sub Saharan Africa, isn't that even more time for development over the travellers who moved across the continents? Africa had a head start!

How do people actually believe this?

We do IQ tests and still, to this day, see massive (at least 1 standard deviation) below average in other parts of the world.

>but muh Egypt

Not talking about northern Africa. Massively different collection of civilizations and mostly Arab/European.

Explain it /b

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Guns, germs, and steel. Americans have africans pox blankets. Can't invent wit pox

Considering all humans originated in sub-Saharan Africa, the Western Europeans who shaped the world as we know it (and the insectoid Chinese who threaten us) followed. So, all the time those civilizations were progressing, afro niggers continued to live in whatever shitholes they lived in.
Oh, well.

That was the indians, retard

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What if the lazy and stupid genes didn't travel.
SSA became to bottom of the barrel from the start.

Your causality is reversed.
The INSTANT we got away from niggers, civilization sprang up out of nowhere, unbidden.
We had these ideas when we WERE Africans. We couldn't act on them because we were surrounded by niggers who would just tear it down faster than anyone could build.

Bill Burr believes that shit because his wife was like "we was kangz"

This does follow most sociological models of expansion.

What is
>Nubia
>Carthage
Further the earliest instance of iron ingoting was found in sub-saharan Africa, dating to something like 3000 BCE. Marrekash was a center of learning under the Moors and produced the gunpowder formula the Spainish would proliferate across Europe.

Archaeological evidence seems to suggest that pretty much the whole world was seeded with modern humans by about 10,000 BCE, save South America. This is still 7000 years before Egypt, 6 before Mesopotamia/Babylon.

Africa had several big backslides, plague and climate brought low Egypt, then the Romans and Alexander the Great burned their libraries. The Moors genocided the indigenous polytheists. And then colonialism locked it in place.

Egypt predates the Arabs peoples arrival into the Mediterranean. And Europe was still in the stone age. They were likely their own ethnic group, the Aegyptids,

IQ tests require a certain kind of schooling to score well on.

You are not intrinsically better than anyone else.

Not sure what you were quoting or is it just a meme post?

read guns germs and steel, basically the environment/landscape forced the need for technological change

OP, even Darwin knew this.

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Carthage is the best counter example in this thread. Nubia was culture rich but nothing that would convince these people otherwise.

Look up Carthage. If you have a hard on for euros and rome, look up Carthage again.

Africa never reached the same "heights" of Europe by those standards. They were never on the same track.

Everyone js wrong in this thread because you assume linear technological advancement which has been your personal experience.

Africa would have done whatever culture and tech worked best for them. There wouldn't be a Wakanda, but people would be happy.

Europe/Middle East had interplay that nececitated their tech paths. That worked better for war than SubSaharan Africa during colonial periods.

There was no straight line defined by white skin.

There were no astronauts on the moon in 1968.
Try again.

Dumbass

Spotted the nigger with a dictionary.

This is literally the only educated post in this thread full of people making up or repeating pseudo theories to rationalize their fears of different people.

This is not that. Let's cut white people out of this. Let's use India, China, or Japan.

Sub Saharan Africa still loses like the dumpster fire it always was.

Lets look at culture, and none of that "all cultures are equally valuable" or noble savage shit. What about their culture had even memetic analogs for future advancement for their own people?

Did they form lasting civilizations that spread and had useful ideas in the real world and time they lived in? Comparatively no.

How about complex symbolism in religion? Oops. Still very far behind except for a few splinter tribes that dwindled or was forgotten.

How about the ability to assimilate? Both out-group to in, or tribal relativity? You still don't see it.

Military history? Tougher for spoken word stories that don't match up even within a mile of another opposite tribal story.

They made a few good myths. Maybe they melted iron down once or twice. But don't rewrite global importance.

>moors produced the gunpowder formula
That was the chinese

Africans are in the native human habitats so they've had to develop with the environment. However, humans in the rest of the world are in a foreign environment that aren't equipped to handle them, so they developed to handle interactions with the only other African species in the area: Humans.
That's why they can jump high and run fast, but everyone else can get through life without killing people.

Evolution doesn't necessarily prefer intelligence.

That gunpowder link has been entirely debunked. There was no Moors to Spanish proliferation of that recipe if it even existed.

European gunpowder usage came in two "waves", with a period of loss between them. Both came from Asia.

I see you use both "native human habitat" and "evolution" in the same paragraph.

I wanted to vomit.

Either you don't understand selectionism, or you're talking lamarckian evolution.

Either way, adaptation is a process not a puzzle piece.

The only subsaharan culture you mentioned was Nubia and the only reason they were barely any better than other subsaharan cultures was because the copy catted things from the Egyptians.

Subsaharan culture throughout its history just isn’t interesting. They have some neat tribal cultures but nothing that had the depth of European or Asian cultures. Even the America’s had more complex cultures than the Africans without having any contact till the Spaniards arrived.

If you're not dying from the elements, you don't need to innovate better shelters.

Think. If your breakfast literally ran across your backyard on a regular basis, why would you painstakingly cultivate all manners of crop? Why would you even cultivate, if you could trade for goods from an actual rainforest? Why would you need to industrialize, if close-knit communities and religious observance served as a moderately stable way of life? There was no real drive to innovate beyond what had already been established, besides the conditions on the coasts. "Starting first" doesn't change anything; plenty of communities in Europe were the "first" to do something, and were later outright conquered by nation-states that formed much later.

Necessity is the mother of invention. And combined with the number of times that continent has been trifled with, the current state of affairs aren't surprising. Africa is part of the Old World. It wasn't left in isolation. By the time anything particularly grand had come out of it, ignoring the obvious, people were moving
>in
and taking their invention with them. At one point, nations in Africa were capable of debasing an entire currency.

At one point, there was too much gold circulating an economy, that it became almost worthless. Think about that.

>had useful ideas in the real world
Yes. There are probably several tenets of "African" invention that you use on a daily basis without realizing it.
>complex symbolism in religion
I can't believe you would say this about a continent whose stereotype involves shamans and tribal warlords. You're missing the concept of culture in its entirety.

>How about the ability to assimilate
There are former colonies in Africa that still speak the language of their colonizers, to this day. All of Africa isn't one big desert.

I resent the invention of fertilizer.

Sadly, they can't even maintain the infrastructure that the Europeans built through the early to mid twentieth century. If not for european colonization, it stands to reason that they would still be in the stone age.

Yo OP talkin shit forget we got big dik energy from the start wildin cuz u hatin on my white boi thread I new it was u cant handdle heat u betts get out the kitchen u think we don got it good in atlanta nigga hatin on me cuz we laff

Explain invention in peace time or novel production for the purpose of commerce or trade? I'm not knocking what actually comes out of defense or necessity, but that's missing the forest for the trees.

Invention happens without necessity all the time. Even more so I'd say. Necessity can shape "form and funds" but is not the impetus some think it is. Culture and market are massively more powerful.

Nobody needs an iPhone to survive (bad example but common enough to use here).

If a culture cannot foster innovation outside of wartime or starvation- that. is. the. problem.

Subsaharans could have been riddled with geniuses crushed under their own cultural shortcomings. That. Is. A. Problem.

Maybe because there is no need for maintaining a costly train for the purpose of sitting in it having a banquet and looking out for wilderbeasts and other mammals in the bush? Lmao this a whitey thing

Better question. Who actually uses whitey outside of old 70s movies?

Why do they come to Sup Forums?

I can solve this whole thread because fuck colonizers.

Zulus beat the brittish

Didn't take technology. Just power of spirit and people indomitable.

>At one point, there was too much gold circulating an economy, that it became almost worthless. Think about that.

you're thinking of a story about ONE king that built his fortune out of the salt trade or something and then traveled to mecca, along the way handing out so much gold that it destabilized the economy for like 20 years.

Total bullshit your theory is garbage. You completely ignore evolution. Brilliant minds in sub sahara? Not with a skull like that. Sit

Oh fuck.

Someone taught this guy wrong.

I bet hearing about the Boer war will crush your spirits. The second one too.

Craniometry was the first completely false belief system to emerge from the advent darwinian evolution.

Congratulations. You're only 300 years behind.

They lost one skirmish out of months of desolation. What are you talking about? The zulu people got massacred by MACHINE GUNS. They had gatling guns. Zulu warriors had wood shields and stone clubs. It was not a win for them. How do you think the colonies happened?

>Explain invention in peace time or novel production for the purpose of commerce or trade
What's happening during peace time? Is winter coming? Do you need larger housing? Do you have an abundance of wood? Do you need to smoke your meat? Is it harder to hunt for food? Are there not enough resources for your growing tribe, that you are forced to merge with a more prospective tribe?

Besides, you explained novel production through that exact sentence. It often comes through commerce or trade. If everyone is subject to the same conditions, what is particularly novel, save for that which comes from chance alone?

>Invention happens without necessity all the time.
Absolutely false. For example, there is a drastic difference in the behavior between a man who is not drowning, and a man who is. One will do anything to survive, even if that means dragging someone else down. The other could be more concerned with fidgeting.

How do you birth ideas without a discreet, independent impetus? Define culture for me, user. Tell me how the aspect of culture, or the aspect of a marketplace, intrinsically brings forth distinct and novel concepts through their entertainment.

>Nobody needs an iPhone to survive
And so not everyone needs an iPhone. See the pattern? Not everyone needs to insulate themselves from the cold. And if it's a bad example, user, I invite you to use a better one. I don't know why you'd choose to make the weakest argument instead of the strongest one you possibly could.

>a culture cannot foster innovation outside of wartime or starvation
You are deciding what is innovative, as if there is some kind of standard with which a community must operate in order to succeed. What needed to be innovated? Tell me, user.

You would never rotate your crops on a salt bed that used to be a body of water. It doesn't matter how impactful that practice is. If you are not in an area where you can successfully implement it, it is not suited for your community. You're better off pursuing avenues that work. Avenues that commit longevity to your community. What good is a insular castle, in the dead heat of the equator? Who will build that? Why? What purpose could that possibly serve, in the same vein of innovation you seem to demand be the standard? How is expending the resources and time to built a monolith in the Sahara going to ensure that those multiple tribes exist long enough to be discovered by anyone else?

>Subsaharans could have been riddled with geniuses crushed under their own cultural shortcoming
And so that would be a consequence of their environment. Plenty of geniuses are likely to have mt the same fate in other places that would be considered "innovative".

>ONE king
>one point
Fancy that. At one point this one thing happened. What else, user?

Tu Sas mas punch child with stick

Chinks invented paper... without it you’d be stuck carving down words onto marble...

They also invented gunpowder, and of course, the whites had to use it for violence.

Pajeets also invented the fucking number system. Arabs invented modern mathematics...

>tfw the whites were once the niggers of the world
>literally stealing and looting
>confront any white person about it and they’ll bullshit “to the victors the spoil”
>by that logic niggers are doing nothing wrong, and hence, whites were the niggers of the earth.

Yea sure when the african skull is something in between of a white mans skull and that from a chimpanzee.

My girlfriend was raised in tribal Zimbabwe she was more content with that life than office work in Johannesburg

Trips, but nigger.

No rewards for you

I mean, you're talking about useless monoliths on a continent known for them, and cultures that are the envy and fascination to this very day.

Non sequitor since we are discussing sub sahara but do you see the absurdity?

Buildings do actually do something long term. They are meant to be. Architecture does something. Even in stable weather. It creates structures that can be used intergenerationally in ways that mud brick does not. That's not nothing. Many cultures thinking ahead have done this. You may have heard of them. They left physical proof of their accomplishments even if it is a stable wall.

The drowning man/safe man dichotomy is too molar vs. molecular for me to take seriously. Youre reducing culture (the many) to a single man's struggle for one optimal behavior. It muddies the point. That's the "data point of one" anecdotal stuff that people talking big picture find annoying to waste time on.

No one says necessity doesnt matter. The point is, it doesn't drive all invention and innovation. Competition is not always survival based. Who would make art if that were true? Who would make leisure commodities? Do you think the makers are always hand to mouth? No way. Look around at any modern development. We are not in survival mode at every technologically pivotal turn, yet the wheel keeps spinning.

Checked. Good for her. She should live the life she wants, but that speaks nothing to the point of this thread.

>Fancy that. At one point this one thing happened. What else, user?

he was from west africa in mali, and the gold thing happened in cairo. the rest of africa (subsaharan, like the topic at hand) was still shit and unaffected.

You see niggers behave and you come up with that we are all equal again and only cause its cold in Europe the white race advanced? Hahahaha just study the niggers actions. Its a state of an ape.

Chimp out is real. Go to any Wal-Mart.

White people go Karen and raise their voice, but they don't trash the area or throw things.

>you're talking about useless monoliths on a continent known for them
Make up your mind. If culture is massively more powerful than consequences that demand purposeful solutions, then why is a monolith lacking any obvious purpose useless?

>do you see the absurdity
I see absurdity in something, that's for sure.

>Buildings do actually do something long term
>They are meant to be
>Architecture does something
>Even in stable weather
>It creates structures that can be used intergenerationally in ways that mud brick does not
How did you manage to reason that a mud-brick structure is not, in fact, a structure? How did you manage to reason that a mud-brick structure does not do something? How did you manage to reason that a mud-brick structure cannot do anything in stable weather for the Sub-Saharan climate?

What are you going to build with in a place with low-grazing vegetation, lack of strong wood, and miles upon miles of actual desert? Stone? I don't suppose you'll innovate, or become nomadic, and built impermanent structures using hides and, of course, mud bricks with grasses mixed in. God forbid. What would it even say if the generations had to reconstruct their own homes after a period of time, I just can't fathom it.

Christ, user. You've completely ignored the environment while embellishing weather and permanence.

>They left physical proof of their accomplishments even if it is a stable wall
>you're talking about useless monoliths on a continent known for them
>cultures that are the envy and fascination to this very day
user.

>The drowning man/safe man dichotomy is too molar vs. molecular for me to take seriously
Why?
>Youre reducing culture (the many) to a single man's struggle for one optimal behavior
I never equated innovation to the efforts of the many. I suggested that it was borne from a very discrete impetus. A very molecular one. The only one making it out to be otherwise is you, as evidenced by suggesting that culture births such a thing, while failing to explain how. I'd not received an explanation, just accusation.

Culture does not drive invention. Invention drives culture. You suggest the sentiment at the very least, multiple times in your replies. Multiple times. And I would ask you whether an entire nation, or a few individuals, would be responsible for the kinds of invention you imply are of dire import to a culture in its entirety. The kind that occur outside of a dire demand for purposeful solution.

>anecdotal stuff that people talking big picture find annoying to waste time on
>missing the forest for the trees
We are talking about a specific grouping of peoples, are we not? Why are we then generalizing the categorization of the concepts we discuss here?

>No one says necessity doesnt matter
Someone said it mattered less. I disagree very strongly.
>it doesn't drive all invention and innovation
It drives the kinds of invention and innovation that cause a culture to produce things like advanced agriculture. Nobody does that for fun. They do that, because they need to eat. If they don't do that, they don't eat. Or, it could be said that they don't need to do that to eat. Either way, you do such things, because you must.

There is a reason that a drowning man panics and flails.

>Competition is not always survival based
Competition is rooted in our behavior. The very sentiment of competition alone implies that there is something to be obtained or won through contest. When you say that it's not survival based, what do you mean? Because you can't mean that purposeful innovation comes without competition or demand.

>Who would make art if that were true
Everyone who would make art if it weren't true. Art doesn't follow that convention. Nobody will starve because you failed to paint a circle. Art is a form of expression. It's not intrinsically purposeful, but it's supplementary to the human experience, so long as it captures and exemplifies the purposeful. Art can communicate, but only if there was an intent to communicate something in the first place. It relies, needs, something to serve as the foundation for its existence.

Shit on a canvas. Tell me that'll solve all your problems. Now, show me the Vitruvian Man, and say the same thing.

>Who would make leisure commodities
Anyone who sought leisure? I want, I want, and suddenly, I need. I can make, so I make, and now I have. I want, and now I need, more.

>We are not in survival mode at every technologically pivotal turn
That's a consequence of technology. Running, clean water means you don't have to transport or seek it out anymore. It comes to you. That is a luxury. An innovation, a desire that came from a very crystal-clear somewhere. And still, just about everything we've employed serves our demand for knowing the world, or controlling it. Anything devised for fun these days rarely serves any particular, purposeful benefit.

An app on your iPhone won't necessarily revolutionize the world, but it's an invention nonetheless.

And the water? We don't just survive because of it. Now, we thrive because of it. For some, it is in abundance. The amount of effort and time that would go into procuring it, can now go to the idle wanderlust of devising a new kind of dessert.

How useful.

Where did the gold come from, user.

>>If Sub Saharan Africa hadn't been colonized and subjugated by the Europeans, their culture and technology could have been equal (or greater).
AHAHA! HHHAAAAHHHAAHAHAHA!

No.
They were perfectly adapted for their surroundings and didn't need to invent anything beyond basic stuff because nature delivered everything everyday for almost free all year round.
Same with South American tribes in the jungle. Similar theatre, similar life style.
And then the distant cousins came back with swords, blackpowder weapons and shit, so the poor natives were thoroughly fucked.

No its not because out of the cold the modern human evolved. This process happened way earlier and the civ of babylon and the like proves it. In fact modern humans moved out of africa already with an advantage to their niggerparts.

The first people to return to catch themselves some slaves were the Arab people. This was very convienent for local entrepreneurs because they could sell their own kin into slavery.

Mali empire bro. The richest kingdom ever been. Whiout this Europe will still be a shit hole

Your probably the most retarded person on earth if you didn't think chicks used gun powder for war.

No one says that about white history, you sound like a angry hapa.

That's what he said, I think.

>civilization sprang up out of nowhere, unbidden
no, it arose from having to adapt to harsher climates

whites adapted and their civilization incorporated everything they came in contact with

says his gf is a lazy nigger

Bill Burr is fucking hilarious and a decent chap; doesn't necessarily mean his politics are very based though:/

He's not some screecher at least...

Didnt they build the first mobile multiple rocket launcher? Something like an ancient nebelwerfer just with bottle rockets

Fun fact, the curse of africa is they had no beasts of burden, no horses, no trainable ox like beasts.
Every other continent had those

OP specifically mentioned Nafris didn't count brainlet...

Personally, I don't, based on the data we have, believe it's because the sub-saharan are actually lesser people (most of them at least... Congonese and isolated tribes tend to be missing the second "sapien" for sure...), but rather that living conditions in Africa are not ideal for human society and culture developing. Environmental and other factors limit the capacity for expansion, communication, and production.

"We was kangz n shiet" is just as retarded as "ooga booga mud-hut niggers"

Native Sub-Saharan Africans are at a disadvantage because they live in shit-holes, not just bc they're black...

And another excuse. Sure its everything else but the nigger DNA

extraterrestrial cope Sup Forums btfo

Watch Empire of Dust. Neither Africans nor Chinese come out of it well, but it does show the entitled and retarded attitudes of the African "workers"

youtube.com/watch?v=1a-QpyF7rNc

Long, but worth the watch.

And who the fuck generated these shitholes in the first place? Are you nigger? You be like dam da hood is no easy game yo fuck life is rough - lets hit em up and shoot dem motherfuckerz.

>ignores any other factors in favor of the one they prefer, then claims other dude is ignoring factors they don't like

Sounds like you're the one with nigger DNA...

Mother nature? It's fucking awful on that continent. Western people definitely do better there, but starting off in a giant desert is a real disadvantage. Praise be for nomads moving North and losing melanin, else we'd all still be stuck slinging mud...

Ok niggerdefenders than arent you embarrassed by the fact that wakanda only exists cause white man created it with white tools and is a CGI kind of vision? Lul

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nobody identifies or even really cares about wakanda

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I meant an illusion. Isnt it sad? But i do want it happen though cause im not racist.

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>the same thing happened in every pre industrialised nation
>6-8 of those kids mentioned in th pic die for this exact reason plus illnesses and cruel twists of fate
its to reduce the odds of being childless past menopause of the wife which is a death sentence
brainlet

That is blatantly untrue. There were civilizations all over the African continent with stone building, domesticated animals, agriculture, and mining, notably gold.

Read a book, brainlet

You're not claiming the super-Saharan cultures, are you?
>wewuzkangs.jpg

Life is RNG. If you’re born in a shitty place with shitty values, you can’t really take a step back and think about your actions and morals and ethics and all that. People experience life drastically different based on where we are born, what we observe and what we are taught. You obviously have enough frame of mind to step back and talk about human psyche, but someone who has no use for that in day to day life will not care about it.

I don’t really know if I have a point I’m just talkin

Good thread here DKtxnwu

deserved

Not OP.
The real point is, that's as far as they ever got.

rng stands for retard nigger government

Have you tried organising civilisation in the heat? Fuck that.

There is an anthropological movement afoot, many scientists believe that humans, as we know them today, are made up of three separate lineages.
One group from Africa, one from Asia and one from Europe, because of perceived racism many will not openly discuss or back what seems an inevitable conclusion.
After forty years of Africa being heralded as the cradle of humanity because of the discovery of "Lucy" the evidence that we are not descended from her at all did not make the mainstream media for the same reasons.
There are inherent reasons for our differences, but before anyone gets all bent out of shape, just remember different doesn't mean better, we're simply better at somethings than other groups and they are better at things that we are poor at.

nice strawman faggot. nobody of note is saying that. you're making up fake arguments because you're too retarded for real ones.

w-w-w-w-wrong! Only humans from Africa are 100% sub-saharan. Asians have devonian dna and whites have neanderthal dna.

Here you go bro. Don't forget to thank me

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americans landed on the moon in '69
since then we haven't progressed human space flight at all, arguably we've regressed

>You are not intrinsically better than anyone else.

Citation needed

I suggest you go fuck yourself with your racism and arrogance.

Who cares. Just post more tribal tiddies.

More info about this please?

Not true at all. Just you have to see whats behind the curtain. We are preparing for missions to Mars, kid. Soon you will see it on TV and you gonna tell yourself how retarded you are for making this post. Also many more nations have space programs today. You dont make sense man

Sentinel Island is basically a microcosm of uncontacted Africa.

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