Believe in Liberty Prime
Believe in Liberty Prime
Matthew Edwards
Other urls found in this thread:
aei.org
twitter.com
Jeremiah Perry
kys
Chase Smith
Lucas Campbell
Kevin Garcia
Wut
Wut
Daniel Butler
Nani
Jackson Torres
Better grab all your shit and throw it into the streets now that the private property is outlawed
Aaron Smith
> occupy Wall Street, antifa, the 60s hippy movement, Cuban revolution, Italian resistance movement, pitchfork uprising, New York draft uprising
Because revolutions led by dumb young fucks have always known the difference between good and bad.
Robert Morgan
I prefer death TO communism.
Charles Perry
>Daily reminder
Anthony Watson
tfw you don't know the difference between private and personal property
Jace Cooper
You do know the commies in the USSR took personal possessions when it suited them, right? There was nothing protected.
Justin Baker
tag yourself
Owen Brown
Arbitrary distinction made by the "People's Council", "Central Committee", "Workers' Republic", etc.
>But the current private property regime was just as arbitrarily set, but it was done over centuries and is polyfurcated across jurisdictions
Arguable, but it does not make Red nonsense any better.
Cooper Green
Plz come to Canada
Austin Rivera
Newsflash, the CIA and sister spook agencies vilified socialists, communists, anarchists, nationalists, and ethic separatists for decades: these factions all disagreed with one another, and cannot all be correct, but they all had one thing in common: being threats to Atlanticist hegemony.
Grayson Hughes
Did your parents intentionally drop you on your head as a kid?
Thomas Miller
Mmm, that's good irony. A commie defending the USSR and complaining about propaganda.
Cameron Evans
Daniel Parker
excuse me sir, you might want to read that again.
Chase Wilson
Personally attacked by this relatable content.
Jose Evans
William Barnes
lrn2economics
Blake Clark
argument: communism kills people
counter argument: point it as popaganda
Your argument: "The previous argument defends the USSR"
Eli King
Are you honestly positing that the communism doesn't result in:
- gulags and other death camps
- mass starvation (see the holodomor and Mao's five pests campaign)
- secret police and no free speech
- zero human rights of any kind
- no due process
Benjamin Torres
>oversimplify the top right corner
>specify the top right corner on the bottom left corner
Can you at least specify what is your argument?
Austin Myers
Alright, so according to you having common control over the means of production directly causes this events.
Explain how this process works
Evan Roberts
Any economist will tell you that capitalism is the way to go and that socialism / communism does not work, ever. And no, the Nordic nations are not socialist, they're capitalist with welfare.
Leo Price
Adam Ross
Every time communism is tried it results in that. It's basic 20th century history. So we have evidence that it happens. Why? Probably because you need a violent revolution to seize the means of production, and then you need a deeply authoritarian state to keep the means of production and control the populace.
Lincoln Ross
>And no, the Nordic nations are not socialist, they're capitalist with welfare.
yeah
Now, how does the bottom left corner not fit in the top right corner, I honestly find no logic in that picture of yours
Nathaniel Evans
Mason Howard
Notice he visited the best supermarket in all of Havana. I challenge you to visit one of the average ones.
Gavin Ortiz
the fact so much commie scum try to justify their elementary shitty beliefs at all is just absolutely hilarious
Christian Robinson
Well if you're looking for more than a meme, I'm more than happy to help! Start here
Jace Adams
Real talk here. I'm sick of the shit show that is capitalism and the neoliberal world order. Workers and the common folk are fucked over through outsourcing, little social programs, costs of living, you fucking name it. And don't get me started on the wealth disparity.
But what's the alternative? The fucking USSR? North Korea??? I'm at a loss, what the fuck works for the common man? Are people just fucked in whatever system?
I want off this ride.
Jack Davis
Ever heard on ancom?
Also there are plenty of ways to establish communism without being authoritarian or making violent revolutions.
An alternative to the previous mentioned violent uprising would be worker unions or organized desobidience.
I honestly disaprove state style communism because as you previously mentioned It starts a negative chain of events, the only thing Ive got a problem with is the use of this tragedies to shut down pacific movements like most worker unions.
The argument should be statist communism causes...
Jonathan Garcia
the weak are always trampled upon. the best thing we can do is make it easy for stronger people to rise from their depths rather than making it impossible like socialist pigs do
Joshua Sanders
The joke is democracy like liberty prone, is just slowly moving towards mutual destruction.
Gabriel Cooper
If you make an argument even if it is with a meme you have to face the concequences of its fallacies.
Nicholas Hernandez
So you've got industrial equipment and a distribution network in every home? Without a boss-worker hierarchy nothing more complicated than home-made artisanal goods can be produced.
Blake Watson
Democratic socialism.
The soviets mistook personal rights for bourgeois rights, and dismantled them. The means of production shouldn't be in state hands, they should be co-operatively, owned, democratically administered.
Isaiah Martin
>Ever heard on ancom?
>Also there are plenty of ways to establish communism without being authoritarian or making violent revolutions.
Yeah, those guys in revolutionary Catalonia? The ones who had their own Red Terror and slaughtered tens of thousands of innocents? The ones that were crushed by the combined forces of the Fascists and the Soviet Communists? Wiped out by the enemy and the "friend" of their system. Unable to even defend themselves because... surprise surprise, you can't organize a defense when you're in a state of literal anarchy!
Let's recap:
- still blood thirsty killers who murder innocents
- unable to stand up to """real""" communists
- unable to organize anything
- wasn't even given enough time to collapse on its own
Super, let's try again!!!
Chase Hill
>Democratic socialism.
Forgive my skepticism, but wasn't the USSR supposed to have been democratic? And North Korea? They're the Democratic People's Republic of Korea after all! I've heard some commies argue that the USSR had human rights enshrined in their constitution. Funny how they never followed it. Why would -your- brand of communism be any different?
And what happens if/when the people want to democratically go back to capitalism? Even just a tiny bit? Are you saying there won't be a bloodbath by the communist state then?
Justin Perry
Yup. That's the democratic part. Factions and parties must be permitted. Otherwise, who chooses which candidates can run and who can't?
But if we go back to capitalism it won't be through the vote. The owners will wage war, as they always do when their interests are threatened.
Aiden Wright
Gavin Adams
I made a reference to anarcho communism to disprove you argument about "all communism is authoritarian"
And separately mentioned pacific ways to establish it, I never coorelated one with another retard.
Christian Nelson
It cant be democratic socialism unless it practices democracy even if the state names itself democratic socialist.
Its just basic critical thinking.
Kevin Ramirez
Eh, capitalism-socialism is a sliding scale. The US is one of the farthest towards the capitalism side but it is not burying the needle by any means. There wouldn't be government-owned roads in a purely capitalist state. Same with government-run fire departments, dams/levies, public schools, or any of that shit. Hell, even things like national parks and monuments aren't capitalist. Early in our countries history these things were not government-controlled. Shit changed because it was found that the market wasn't great at all things. Especially when one portion of the market used their power or the government as a cudgel to suppress other portions of the market. Monopolies are the classic example but there are others. Like with passenger rail service in the US. The auto and airline companies had the government build and run all the infrastructure they needed while the government taxed and regulated the rail company's infrastructure up the wazoo. Any pure form of government doesn't work where there are humans in change. Too many conflicts of interest and self-serving influences.
Brody Nguyen
>fallacies
THE CONCEQUENCES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME
Juan Morales
>implying these aren't valid arguments
cope harder
Luis Peterson
...you didn't refute anything I said there? You didn't explain how your special version of communism won't be an authoritarian nightmare?
Ryan Carter
This is just capitalism. It requires profit, but on a finite planet the amount of profit possible always falls.
Capitalism is inherently unstable, it creates its own crises. To continue to profit it colonizes weaker countries to open up markets, improverishes workers, piles on irresponsible debt, and promotes speculative bubbles. None of these can go on forever.
The end result is depression, or war. It's socialism or barbarism.
Jeremiah Carter
And you missed the part where they had their own Red Terror and held collective power through violence and fear. Like authoritarianism, but different?
Eli Wilson
Just take a look at those filthy capitalists.
Cant they understand that monarchy may not be perfect but its the best thing weve got so far?
Just look at how the french are doing after they killed left us.
Its not the entire world marginalizing them into submission, its thei retarded economical system.
Logan Smith
What I was saying is that they all call themselves democratic, why wouldn't your version of socialism be the same? Sham elections and all that. Socialism has never been truly democratic in practice.
Elijah Cook
The only authoritarian state that doesn't hold sham elections is Saudi Arabia. Democracy is wildly popular, dictators recognize this and put on a show of it.
Nolan Brooks
Its not my version, if ots called democratic it has to be, if it isnt then the name doesnt apply for the system.
Benjamin Sanchez
Then I ask you for examples of this existing. Given that you need force to seize and hold the means of production, how would democracy work? People would merely vote back the old system for the prosperity, meager it may have been.
David Evans
>> Socialism has never been truly democratic in practice.
Except for all of the socialist programs in stable first world democracies.
Charles Rogers
Meet your boss.
Ayden Torres
>Except for all of the socialist programs in stable first world democracies.
Learn the definition of socialism before commenting. Socialism: where the workers control the means of production
Jeremiah Robinson
Honest question: why does the American government allow that plaque to be there? Memorializing labor is the most unAmerican thing I can think of.
Ayden White
There's this thing called the first amendment.
Isaiah Lewis
When has that stopped the government?
John Cook
Worker unions and syndicates are an example, their meanso of existance depende on the approval of its members and the public around it.
With these you can gradully seize the means of production, the process would only work with popular approval and the means of production would directly owned by the workers.
Xavier Peterson
So this means Bernie isnt a...
Carter Watson
We need to go 1960's on this commie shit. Just have your name mentioned on the same sentence as the word would land you in prison.
This I like
Dylan Butler
>Worker unions and syndicates are an example, their means of existence depend on the approval of its members and the mayority.
>With these you can gradully seize the means of production without any violent uprising, the process would only work with popular approval and the means of production would be directly owned by the workers.
Had to correct that
Thomas Mitchell
>seize the means of production
Socialists are all about how the rich steal from the workers and how it needs to be stopped but as soon as they are the ones doing it...
Kevin Roberts
Seize the means of production?
I think you are confused
Jonathan Morales
When you get something back that was stolen from you, it isn't theft.
Alexander Carter
Profit is theft
Kayden Nelson
Jeremiah Myers
Juan Stewart
>Seize the means of production?
It's all fun and games until it's your production being seized.
>When you get something back that was stolen from you, it isn't theft.
My dad worked at a factory for 25 years. He didn't build it, he didn't pay for it, he didn't design the things he made in it, it wasn't his. He operated a press. When he retired he built his own machine shop with his money and he eventually had 30 people working under him. He designed the factory, he paid for people to build it for his specs, he bought all the machines, and trained most of the staff. It was his and any shithead that would "seize the means of production" from him would be deadbeat in my eyes. Do you know why socialism doesn't work in counties that have nothing? Because they have to STEAL the means of production from someone first. When there is nothing to steal, no factories to take over, no capital to build anything with, you don't get very fucking far.
Now, you can argue that workers aren't being paid enough, or the conditions are poor, or that they need job security. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But taking someone else's property just because you think it is yours is bullshit.
Easton Morales
anarchism doesn't work because socialism can only be maintained with the efficient use of state power. Marxism-Leninism provided the best living conditions and protection from imperialism
Jaxon Green
Looking at “Liberty Prime” I’m left wondering just what exactly is your definition of “Liberty” and why you can’t have “Liberty” in a communist society?
Eli Howard
>> Do you know why socialism doesn't work in counties that have nothing? Because they have to STEAL the means of production from someone first.
You have that confused with capitalism.
Matthew Rivera
Property rights are granted by the state, they don't hold any weight beyond what is legitimized through the use of force. The workers sell their labor power to a capitalist in exchange for a wage that satisfies their basic necessities; the relationship however is inherently exploitative because the capitalists profit is the unpaid labor of his employees. Read Wage Labor and Capital by Marx
Brandon Sanchez
literally everything you are attributing to capitalism equally has been done by cumminist regimes
* colonization and exploitation: eastern European countries by the Soviet Union
* impoverishing and enslaving workers: Korea, Soviet Gulag
* piles on ressponsible debt: the Soviet Union was bancrupt in 1989, that was the main reason they had to accept the fall of communism in eastern Europe. They had a severe economic crisis and were standing on the edge of a famine
economic crisis are an intrinsic part of communism, much more than in capitalism (e.g. the famines in China in the 60ies and the Soviet Union in the 20ies that killed millions). Only the reasons are different: in capitalism they are bubbles and greed, in communism it is mismanagement.
Also: remember that the falling rate of profit actually is a good thing. It means that less of the GDP goes to the capital owners and more goes to the workers. The rate of profit in the 1970ies was much lower than today, and it was the time with the highest workers income (in percentage of GDP) in the history of mankind.
Josiah Gutierrez
>It's all fun and games until it's your production being seized.
By who?
Xavier Morgan
In China the deaths were calculated by comparing projected birth rates with the actual birth rates (which had decreased as a result of the greater drive to industrialize) which is shitty for obvious reasons. As for the Soviet union, the holodomor was the result of bad harvests and grain hoarding by kulaks, and every socialist republic in the USSR had the right to leave the union as written in the Soviet constitution
Jason Phillips
>Property rights are granted by the state, they don't hold any weight beyond what is legitimized through the use of force.
So, you are saying you don't want anyone to own any property? I can't retire out to my cabin in the woods because some shitfaced neckbeard might decide I'm the bourgeois elite and take it from me?
>the capitalists profit is the unpaid labor of his employees
Profit is the returns of the owner or the investors. You wouldn't put your money in a bond if it wasn't paying you interest. You wouldn't have a savings account for the same reason, right? Why would anyone build a factory if they weren't going to see a return? If 'the workers' are such hot shit why don't they just build their own factory? Why do they have to take someone else's stuff?
>By who?
Why are you playing dumb? 'The workers'. I guess every shop better be owned by 'the workers' or be a sole proprietorship for fear of the shipping department taking the pace over and having the old man taking out back and shot.
Austin King
Austin Sanders
No, profit isn't the unpaid labor of the employees.
Just because an employer isn't directly making widgets on the assembly line doesn't mean he's not contributing, else janitors are also picking the pockets of the assembly workers by virtue of not directly making widgets.
Value is a collaborative, multiplicative, function -- not additive. A worker able to make 10 widgets per day at $10 each ($100) at the factory, at home, if the worker is able to produce at all, is maybe only able to produce 2 widgets due to lack of efficiency due to lack of collaboration and is unable to sell the widgets at a competitive price if at all. If a worker's value is $100, where did all that money go then? Thus value is not a sole product of a worker's labor.
Xavier Wood
This strikes me as a very “millennial” attitude.
Millennial to Boomer... you did all this stuff and reaped all the benefits from it and while doing so you didn’t make my life easier. That’s not fair.