Why is abortion wrong? I'm not a religious man...

Why is abortion wrong? I'm not a religious man, so the concept of there being a soul transported into the fetus by God (or however that works) doesn't really convince me

Is the whole argument pinned to when people consider a fetus to be a "human life"?
I've got a particularly pointed argument against the "it's a living human" argument:
Say your son's liver is failing. Without your body (or someone else's), they will die. It is your legal right to refuse to give your son a piece of your liver to save their lives, even if it will not harm you long term in any way.

Why is this different in the case of a fetus? Yes they may be their own autonomic being, separate from the mother yet dependent upon her, but how can we say that it's not right to force a parent to donate their body to their child in one case, but not the other?

Other urls found in this thread:

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-25/american-babies-are-no-longer-mostly-non-hispanic-white
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population
anyforums.com/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

You don't need to be God fearing man to oppose abortion.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Whether your creator is God, or nature, you should still value life.

By the way, my personal opinion is that abortion is disgusting and I would never suggest it to anyone; however, when it comes to rights, my personal feelings about a situation shouldn't get in the way of the debate.

Sorry, but you can't debate it without some kind of moral judgment on the value of life, and that means invoking religion even if you're an atheist.

Might be better off arguing about whether or not it's moral to eat vegetables or for your very blood to eliminate pathogens.

Sup Forums is instantly BTFO on any defense of abortion because approximately 10 million niglets in the US have been aborted as a result of it.

Like I said I do value life and think abortion is fucked. The problem I'm having is whether it's rational to allow someone to deny their child their organs in the case of a transplant and then turn around and allow them to abort their child.

Its really not. Retards on tumblr just turn it into a social justice issue.
Plus you don't want rapebabies running around.

Nothing wrong with it, I simply don't agree that my taxes should pay for a woman's bad decision.

Don't get me wrong, the suction of the fetus is horrid, but an unwanted baby will only increase in the struggles for the woman and society in general.

No it's not rational, denying an organ transplant is different from actually killing somebody.

because it's the woman's fault the fetus is dependent on her.
the hole son's liver argument is valid since you did not cause it. if you damaged his liver on the other hand, it would be logical to demand you help him.

In law, there's such a thing as intent. If there's blood on your hands, it could be anywhere from negligence to murder depending on why you did what you did. In addition to whether or not you consider a fetus to be equal to a human, you'd have to ask whether you're acting to save a life or end it.

Does lack of organ donation count as murder more than forcibly terminating a fetus does?

If that's why your'e against it, then you're extra stupid.

Your taxes will pay for her gibsmedats and a few years in the future for all the expenses incurred by incarcerating her son or paying gibsmedats for her pregnant daughter.

Abortion is bad when the parents' average IQ exceed 100

My only argument for why abortion is wrong is that you are hurting those who wrongly believe in souls and/or want a maximum number of people to be born.

I think you're going too far in putting money above life. That's what what the nigger who robs you at gunpoint does. That's the message in the good movie Soylent Green.

It's also what Obamacare does by having a computer evaluate the worth of your life vs. the cost of keeping you alive. It's next-level Jewish Communistic USSR stuff.

Personally I think it's wrong because I value human life. If it can't last until birth, or dies of SIDS or something, well that's just unfortunate. But give the kid a chance unless you know it will kill the mother if she carries to term or something is terribly wrong.

Usually people try to counter me with "It's not a person yet." To which my thoughts on it are "Would you eat an abortion then? Why the fuck not, if you think it's not people?" If they would, fuck em, cannibals are shit people with shit opinions. Being a real human isn't something you magically acquire at an arbitrary age, no matter if it's when you're born, when you become self-aware, when you've developed the ability to use abstract thought or the ability to reason, it's in your DNA.

>I simply don't agree that my taxes should pay for a woman's bad decision
Then you should be against them having their children, then.

Our abortion rate is absolutely disgusting. Combine that with the Millennial mindset of "No kids, no permanent housing" and we are effectively killing off the next generation.
That's what's wrong with it.

If your argument against murder is "it is your legal right", I will add you to my "consequences of atheism" list.

Are our abortion rates really that high? I thought that number was inflated thanks to how much blacks have abortions

Killing an unborn child is technically murder.

Plus forcing medical staff to kill babies is fucked up.

The corresponding drop in crime rates, though.

Sup Forums loves crime, it gives us reason to bitch

>user admits he'd willingly eat shit

Yeah, black abortions still take the cake, but all the free-loving college girls are certainly not helping.

It's hurting white people too.

anti-abortion means pro-nigger
christcuck spook preachers fuck off

Now think of it. Why wouldn't said medical staff just quit?

Oh, right, because then they wouldn't get money. So they are forced to abandon their morals and act as slaves to the money masters instead. If a doctor takes an oath and he deems it moral to do that then that's one thing. Not being allowed to nope out of what you do not deem to be moral, even without taking an oath, is different.

Dude we give niggers abortions for free. Of course they're going to abuse free shit. And then we pay them to go on welfare if they crank out more babies.

MONI MONI MONI

Slide.

This.

>state-funded abortions for niggers
what's wrong with that?
just abolish the fucking welfare then
also give tax deductions to families with both working parents, so that it won't be niggers receiving the benefits

Because abortion is murder of the unborn, and murder is wrong.

The reason why it's different is because the mother CHOSE to have sex. She willingly made the decision to engage in sexual intercourse even knowing that pregnancy was a potential consequence.

In accepting that fact and making that choice, she assumes a certain level of responsibility.

Additionally, if the mother's life is in danger than the argument in favor of an abortion is strengthened, because killing the fetus could be "self defense"

I swear to fucking god these christcucks are the original SJWs
deport all the slims before you can worry about outlawing abortion

You're making a false equivalence.
I won't say abortion is wrong, but I recognize that it's a form of eugenics and that it is a human life being killed.

I'm not Christian or even religious.

It should only be allowed in rape situations. Otherwise, nigger, you gave consent, meaning you should be ready to take responsibility to any complications that may arise, such as an unwanted pregnancy due to improper or failed use of contraceptives

State funded means I'm funding it, and I don't care for eugenics. At least if it's privately run then people can chose whether or not to pay for it.

But the scary part is most people don't even know they're paying for abortions when they fund certain foundations. Why not just advertise it? Why hide it? Why trick people into it? You always have to be suspicious around liars.

>"murdering people is morally wrong"
>HAHHA WOW WHAT A FUCKING SJW

Are you retarded?

>niggers
>muslims
>people
you cucks are the reason the US is 60% white

>He thinks Muslims have abortions.

No, the Jews on the top that trick us into it and force it on us are the reason.

how the fuck will eugenics ever be profitable you utter moron?
how will science be profitable?
how will roads ever be profitable?
fucking christ neck yourself lolbert faggot and just become natsoc already

Awww, you are retarded.

No one said anything about blacks and Muslims.

You do realize that white babies get aborted too, right?
Even if you believe that blacks and Muslims arnt people, there are still hundreds of thousands of white babies that are murdered.

Nothing. My mom had 2 abortions when she was young and stupid. If she hadn't have had them, she would have introduced 2 fuck-ups into a shitty life instead of marrying and having 3 children that actually contribute to society.

>profit
>profit
>profit
Thanks for making my point, Jew.

They can all be made profitable if they're implemented correctly. What we have now is a rigged system that profits off of tricking dupes into murdering each other. It's the same thing with war and terrorism.

Because people have abortions so thry don't have to raise their children.
1-2% of abortions are a result of rape or incest, the rest are to prevent inconvenience. Over a million are performed annually in the United States and the Democrats fight for abortion rights for women.

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-25/american-babies-are-no-longer-mostly-non-hispanic-white
how will privately ran eugenics be possible to run if not by being profitable? kill yourself braindead nigger

By the government giving cartel powers and raping the tax payer for tax-free status, duh.

In current societies abortion is fine.
In a healthy one it is not.

>bloomberg

That link has nothing to do with your argument.
Additionally- are you saying that it is morally GOOD to kill some white babies as long as the majority of the babies being killed are not white? Really?

This. But the lack of Catholic Hispanic abortions compared to white ones has fucked them

The species of that life-form is homo sapiens since conception

You are not allowed to murder another member of your species if they are not a threat to you

it has everything to do with my argument
more non-whites are being born now than whites, and non-whites abortions are performed disproportionately on non-whites
therefore, abortions curb the birth rates in favour of white children

...

>and non-whites abortions are performed disproportionately on non-whites
and abortions are performed disproportionately on non-whites*

Abortion is totally fine, as long as it is being done by niggers and sand niggers

Except when Muslims and Christian Africans don't get one.

the solution is to deport them, then
but then faggots like this christcuck preaches we are """""""""brothers""""""""" with sand nigger

Or we could ban abortion, and thus not need migrants to begin with.

...

Except it's not money against lives, it's lives against lives. Money is just the unit of accounting.

If it costs 30,000 hues to save a life and 1,000 hue a year to incarcerate a monkey, any monkey that we don't need to jail for 30 years means another life saved*
So even if you consider abortion murder, there's still a net 0 lives lost.
*Of course money allocation is not perfect, but that's the idea.

didn't really help in the american south, where niggers are outbreeding the whites
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population

There's nothing complicated about it at its core. If you consider it to be a living human at a particular point in pregnancy, then aborting at any point beyond that is murder. Even most pro-abortion individuals acknowledge that there's a point where it becomes murder, the question is really just where that point is. If you became pregnant as a result of consensual sex, there's the "assumption of risk" element, in which case you have to be held responsible for your actions.

>Say your son's liver is failing. Without your body (or someone else's), they will die. It is your legal right to refuse to give your son a piece of your liver to save their lives, even if it will not harm you long term in any way.
The fundamental difference is that the life in your example will end as a result of you living your life as normal, which is your right to do. In the case of pregnancy, continuing to go about your life as normal will result in the child being born, not dying. You have to go out of your way to kill it.

meant to quote

But this is a question of morality.
Obviously abortion is beneficial economically and socially.

But morally, it is wrong to kill those white babies.
Additionally, it isnt justifiable. Who cares about the numbers game? The issue with race in America is culture based, not race,based. The multiculturalism is the cause of conflict.

Abortion is not banned in the US, and the black population is shrinking in the US. The Hispanic, Mormon and Evangelical populations are the ones doing all the growing.

Abortion is an easy way for women to rid themselves of their personal responsibilities.

if you get in a car accident thats your fault, you arent required by law to give blood/organs/w/e to the schmuck on the other side of the accident. im pro-choice and obviously abortion is killing of a fetus, that's entirely up to the person that its inside.

That's still a valuation of money over life, even if it's practical. I would rather look in to avoiding the monkey and the abortion.

Like this guy here says They don't belong in a first world country where we don't need eugenics to keep the population of criminals in check. Kind of like how we should not be spending money to fund overpopulation in Africa when they would just be a comparatively few jungle people doing jungle people things if we left them alone to do as they please instead.

abortion and gun violence are the only means of black population control. how is this not evident?

The supreme court basically ruled that "we don't really know where to draw the line between bunch of cells and human beings, but we're going to just go ahead and say that the first trimester is the former and for the sake of sagacity, we'll assume the rest is the latter."

I think that's reasonable from a jurisprudence perspective, but there's still room for shame in the equation. Because abortion should really be a last resort to encourage women to seek all other options.

People refuse to perform abortions all the time.

What are you on about?

Gun violence is still wrong, niggers staying alive is just worse.

See, that's how reasonable people act. That ruling isn't entirely consistent with my personal beliefs, but the law (and least of all if it has to be escalated all the way to the Supreme Court) is only needed when reasonable people can't act in a way that doesn't require state courts to adjudicate. At least with that particular ruling, you can kind of hand wave it away as not being too terribly horrific in the same way you wouldn't expect to go to hell for jerking off. The problem is abusing the option.

I was just responding to the claims made in the post I was responding to. But it's an important point. Kind of like when a nurse's union or whatever used collective bargaining power to not all get fired for not taking the H1N1 vaccine when they decided it wasn't a good idea and the state shouldn't be overreaching for power like that.

>a question of morality
fuck off nigger lover

What if you learned that your mother almost aborted you? would you be okay with it? Of course not, the thought that your mom thought about denying you the life you have now would sicken you.

But then you'll realize that if your life is that important to you, why isn't the potential life of someone else? Why is it okay to deny someone a chance to be alive over being nothing no matter how fucked up life may be.

My Grandparents apparently wanted my Mother to abort me, which is why my Mum did not speak to them for the first 12 years of my life.

Shit man that sucks... Why'd they want her to abort you? (if you don't mind me asking)

She was 17 when she got pregnant.

16*, corrected.

Brutal. When at least you got dubs if that's any conciliation.

I don't care if it's moral or not. I just want to have the option in case one day i need it.

It's potential murder, so it's wrong.

Jesus not even principled, just self interested

A question for prochoice people.

How late in a pregnancy should it be too late for an abortion?

Murdering for self interest is all abortion is.

Stop pretending to be retarded.

There's no such thing as "wrong." We're all just here right now.

That aside, unwanted children shouldn't be born. We're overpopulated as it is. People have this attitude like, "Well, you should have thought about that before. Too late now, you have to have it." Treating childbirth like some kind of punishment for sex seems sorely misguided to me. Hooray, the irresponsible teens have to pay for their mistake, but what about the kid? Too bad for the kid, too? If your sense of justice is fulfilled by a child being born to parents who didn't want it, maybe your sense of justice is more self-righteous than anything.

All that said, I don't place a very high value on human life. People are a dime a dozen because they're so easy to make. People just... happen, and then they proceed to contribute to this big, stupid, fucked up, psychotic thing we call "the world" that itself doesn't really mean anything. It's like a little play taking place in a tiny little box in an empty room. It could be destroyed in an instant and the universe wouldn't give a shit.

Fuck everything.

I know but not even veiling it in "the science proves it's not a life yet" argument. Like they're wrong about the morality but I don't think people are malicious when they're ignorant like that.

Implying moral values have anything to do with religion.

Agnostic here. Used to be pro choice. Then I had a kid.

Abortion is murder, it doesn't matter what your moral values are.

As for your questions about donating organs and abortion OP, I as a person have the right to refuse to give up my organs. That doesn't mean that a woman has the right to abort the living being that she decided to create inside of her. I pray that there is a god. And I hope that God is fucking savage. He will suck pro lifers through a vacuum crushing their bodies for all of eternity.

>but what about the kid? Too bad for the kid, too?
Yes, because being murdered is what every child wants of course.

And? What makes you think human life is all that important? And what if the baby is autistic? Or what if he suffers from some criplling disease? That is why i think abortion should be legal. I even think abortion should be encouraged in such cases. Call it my eugenics little ideas

> principled
Are you 13? Principles and morals are nothing. Just ideas people created to keep the stupid pacified. What matters is who wins.

Overpopulation OP. Abortion is great

>Agnostic here
>muh special snowflake

So what is agnostic exactly?

I'm a christian too...

There is one major difference between abortion and murder, and it is BREATH... Also a CONCIOUSNESS...

I would allow abortion until 3rd month of gravidity, before brain signal and heart-beat starts.

It is absolutelly necessary to allow Postinor pills and condoms. They work BEFORE life starts by merging sperm and egg and are 100% peaceful.

Specially MUST be allowed abortion for africans. Every mother after 4th or 5th living child should be sterilised.

It is necessary to adapt birth rate to live expectancy.

Abortion is unnatural (may be considered -- some women use it very naturally), medicine and peace are unnatural too. If we want to have a medicine and peace, we must use birth control accordingly.

Otherwise helping rescue 7-9 children per 1 mother is crime against humanity (unless it is a rare exception)...

We are obliged to preserve this nice planet to our children in a livable condition, being here just guests in the house...

And also consider - if 30-40% of gravidities end with spontaneous (or home-done) abortion, adding few more percent artificially (safely medically) is not much difference...

And also to consider:

We need not preserve EVERY life.

We need to preserve ALL future life, all following generations, and that requires responsibility.

atheist but pussy

Why shouldn't it be legal when it's not rape? Yes, "it's her fault, etc", but why is itwrong?

You prefer crime to "killing" a mindless bunch of cells