You'll see some misinformation about the Iraq War in this election cycle. Hillary is dishonest and Don is...not smart about non-economics.
Necessary:
For decades, the US was accused of, and did, prop up dictators for our own purposes (tbf, as all other world powers do). It was used as a club against us.
Bush proved that they didn't want freedom.
It was a gamble, but the payoff of a democratic Iraq would have been enormous. The chance had to be taken, just once. The question had to be settled.
Justified:
9/10 of Americans wanted it. We had September 11, a beltway sniper, at least two other planes crashed into buildings, and mass-mailings of poison to political leaders. Saddam was paying bounties to suicide bombers and claiming WMD's, which we knew he'd used recently.
Then, like now, we all agreed that something had to be done about those arabs. We were being attacked, and none one else could do it. Bill Clinton signed the removal of Saddam into US law.
>9/10 of Americans wanted it.
That's not justification.
Regime toppling for the sake of it is retarded, there was no long term plan to support a democratic Iraq.
Justified, necessary AND well executed.
Top war in my list, no side consequences or mistakes.
>That's not justification.
In a Republic, it is. But the evidence supported it. He was launching attacks against our UN-mandated overflights, and paying jihadis to attack our allies. Alliances means something. They aren't just empty words.
>Regime toppling for the sake of it is retarded,
It is. That's a meaningless statement.
>there was no long term plan to support a democratic Iraq.
Yes, there was. The same support as for Poland, or Malaysia, etc.
Just like the atom bombs
>Top war in my list, no side consequences or mistakes.
Every war, every time, has consequences and mistakes.
The US only SEEMS to be flawless, but we're just humans.
Or sneak attacks against civilians.
Side note: all the western nations who opposed us (Germany, France, etc), Russia, plus UN SecGen Koffi and his son, made millions on saddams oil-for-food and/or selling weapons to him.
That's why they opposed it. Euros are the only people since Japan in the 1930's, and the whole world in 1989, who have went to war specifically for oil.
>In a Republic, it is.
Well I guess you'll be closing the banks and allowing negroes to commit "petty crimes" with no repercussions then.
>But the evidence supported it.
The evidence seemed to support it, but was outright fabricated, maybe there's a reason they wouldn't release it to congress?
>He was launching attacks against our UN-mandated overflights
>UN-mandated
Not an argument. The UN has no authority. If they mandated anything in America you would rightly tell them to fuck off.
> and paying jihadis to attack our allies. Alliances means something. They aren't just empty words.
NATO allies? The alliance which was created to combat the present and dangerous threat of communism? Anyone with an ounce of brainpower knows NATO should have been dissolved 20 years ago.
>>Regime toppling for the sake of it is retarded,
>It is. That's a meaningless statement.
Not an argument.
>Yes, there was.
No there wasn't, simply saying there was doesn't change reality.
Side benefits:
Libya had an active nuke development program.
Our Iraq invasion scared him. He gave it all to us.
Remember the Lebanese street demostrations, demanding that the US invade them so they could have a free election?
*9/11 Americans wanted it
of course Iraq war was necessary
it created many radical organizations that are now attempting to get a hold of WMDs and detonate them in US cities.
And I wouldnt be surprised if american media covered an incident like that up, should it happen. Or try to blame it on Iran n shiet
>Well I guess you'll be closing the banks and allowing negroes to commit "petty crimes" with no repercussions then.
en.wikipedia.org
>The evidence seemed to support it, but was outright fabricated,
Read, user.
Don't let someone else decide for you.
WMDs:
un.org
The investigation of these rockets is still proceeding. Iraq states that they were overlooked from 1991 from a batch of some 2,000 that were stored there during the Gulf War. This could be the case. They could also be the tip of a submerged iceberg. The discovery of a few rockets does not resolve but rather points to the issue of several thousands of chemical rockets that are unaccounted for.
>Not an argument. The UN has no authority.
Look up the event of 1990 after the Kuwait invasion. You're missing a chunk of history from your brain.
>NATO allies?
Israel, princess. NATO is up north of this.
The rest appears to be nonsense sentences.
...
>Israel
Finally we get to your real point.
>it created many radical organizations
Islam has been radical since it's founding. Why do you think it spread out of the Arabian peninsula?
Did you not cover history in school yet?
>american idiot thinking they have a clue
as usual
Oh, fuck, a dindu.
Please, honey, tell us how you are dominated by a tiny minority dat go be stealin yo moneys.
Worthless fuck. If you'd get a job this wouldn't be a problem for you.
Waiting at home for a welfare check is no way to live.
Did I use big words, hon?
Get you mom to help.
Can someone please greentext the Iraq War?
ok Chaim
>justified
Of course, after all "right", as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
>necessary
Not really. Getting bombed, occupied and killed some more has nothing to do with "freedom". The world still (rightfully) accuses the US of propping up dictators. The US still (rightfully) doesn't give a shit.
Nothing has changed from before.
>Get your mom to help.
Aborting the post doesn't abort the post.
Thanks, Japan.
Now I feel Polish.
>defending Iraq war
You're welcome, Jamal.
But we're all getting tired of supporting your lazy ass.
It absolutly wasnt justified or necessary. All that it did waa destablize the middle east for decades to come.
What a retarded war for globalist interests
So facts don't matter.
Only your fucking feelings matter.
Which is why your country is 10% muslim, now hosting rape nights.
Feelings are for families. Use your brain.
Not reading your picture. Is typing too hard?
You aren't thinking, Fritz.
You saw my post, but didn't understand.
Just think about it. Grow your intellect, don't shut it off.
I know it doesn't make you feel good. I'm sorry. Life before the US made it easy is hard to understand for many, not just you.
9/10 of the burgers wanted it because they are uneducated and were fed lies.
Also, no this war was not justified. Irak didnt do anything else than provoke discontent from america for being a stable strong nation in a region the US want unstable. The funniest thing is that today the influence of Iran over Irak is great. Last time I checked US and Iran were not best pals.
So the irak war enventually gave power over irak to Iran and to a smaller extent to the saudi because they are the the regional powers.
Not only was it not justified, it was a big strategic mistake.
Admit it: the US wasted their power because of greed, and after 25 years of uncontested supremacy they are losing grasp because they are too incompetent to rule the world wisely and proved it too obviously.
WMDs:
500 tons of uranium shipped from Iraq, Pentagon says - CNN
www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/07/iraq.uranium/index.html?_s=PM:US
Jul 07, 2008 · The United States secretly shipped out of Iraq more than 500 tons of ... of materials to Canada "Yellowcake" uranium ... be sent by truck to ...
3 posts in a row, by you, only containing ad hominem.
I rate this thread American/10
You reduced a functiunnal country in ashes for oil and Israël benefits.
You made an illegal war by fabricating proofs and lying to the entire world despite having allies intels telling you the whole WMD was bulshit.
Only a retard could believe the whole meme of "establishing a democracy by bombing the people".
Iraq war is 1000% your fault, it was fueled by corporate interests and your retarded population just swallow it all.
Now we are all in deep shit because of this retardation.
You want to know why no one posts in these threads? Because it's too late. People know.
>9/10 of the burgers wanted it because they are uneducated and were fed lies.
Stopping right there, princess.
Every intelligence organization that looked, including yours, said there were WMDs. We KNOW he funded terrorists.
THREE FUCKING TIMES you've been attacked by muzzies, and you still want to lay down for them. Unbelievable cuckery, user.
>all the western nations who opposed us (Germany, France, etc), Russia, plus UN SecGen Koffi and his son, made millions on saddams oil-for-food and/or selling weapons to him.
France accepted mass deaths in Iraq so they could keep getting oil.
France caused current-day Libya, and 10s of 1000s of deaths...so they could get oil.
Oh, so the Brexit referendum should definitely be ignored then.
Look at what they were replies to.
Including your own.
Are there any adults in this thread?
>Saudi is responsible
>Destroy Iraq
>fuck up everything
>DON'T GET THE FUCKING OIL
>now there is a death cult taking over arabia
>europe is getting fucked for it
Nah, as much as I respect american, everything about it was a fuckup.
>You reduced a functiunnal country in ashes for oil and Israël benefits.
Functional?
100,000 southern shi'ites died post 1990, when the world kicked them out of Kuwait.
Are you even conscious?
Not one thing you've typed is supported by anything but your feelings. Aren't you cried out yet? At least go get some water.
>It was a gamble, but the payoff of a democratic Iraq would have been enormous.
and yet it wasn't. You bumbling fascist retard.
God, I can't believe I'm even replying to this, it's like you made it intentionally to cause me harm.
>Because it's too late. People know.
All I see is ignorance. People who've replied don't know.
In fact, every reply to me has been Party Line propaganda and rivers of tears.
Is America talking about how the Iraq War was a good idea again? You fucked up, let it go, move on.
>9/10 of Americans wanted it.
You don't need to explain to us that Americans are dumb burger.
but who supplied iraqi machinery to refine before iaf strikes
if only there was a way to find out, like a search engine for the internet. we'll never know sadly
Nothing you typed made sense, except in a broad emotional way.
>Saudi is responsible
And when a Brazilian shoots a tourist, all of Brazil is responsible.
>Destroy Iraq
Iraq was never blamed for anything. No one ever tried. The low-information crowd (like yourself) heard some political opponent say that in a campaign speech.
>t. Shekelberg
>The U.S. war in Iraq has cost $1.7 trillion
>After 4,486 U.S. soldiers died in Iraq and 2,345 U.S. soldiers died in Afghanistan, 1 million U.S. soldiers wounded in both wars, and a potential cost of up to $6 trillion
One hundred percent justified and necessary. Not like we have our own issues at home that could have been worked on or something.
>It was a gamble, but the payoff of a democratic Iraq would have been enormous.
>and yet it wasn't.
You didn't understand a thing, but don't let that stop you, hon.
>it's like you made it intentionally to cause me harm.
We're lost. SafeSpaces is invading Sup Forums. And she's proud of it.
>Is America talking about how the Iraq War was a good idea again?
I'm presenting facts.
You and your kind are responding with nothing but emotion.
It's no wonder the world is in such rough shape.
Popular opinion isn't a referendum.
>It was a gamble, but the payoff of a democratic Iraq would have been enormous. The chance had to be taken, just once. The question had to be settled.
In a sense, yes.
The problem is that the savages do not want democracy. They want theocracy, and only a tiny minority of liberals wants democracy.
Also, democracies are militarily weaker and fail in that environment.
We can make a democracy out of a small Muslim state that is not surrounded by other Muslim states.
>oh look it's another episode of "iHaz just got banned from /biz/ once again so he is here to bless us with his autism without his tripcode so he doesn't get filtered on the spot"
Fuck off back to your containment board you revolting parasite, go back there and pretend you are a successful attorney with a 6 figures income, shoo shoo!
Fuck you.
The kurd situation was fine in Iraq (most of them died during the Gulf War).
You guys attacked a MODERN and PACIFIC state (if you havent been there in the '90s you would know that), killed 2kk human beings resulting in mass terrorism, something that was unheard of in Iraq (well it was something known only innplaces such as Pakistan and Afghanistan).
This is the worst case scenario. This happened and it's your fault. Don't justify it.
War never goes the way you want.
That's why it's the last option. It sucks.
But according to you, it should have went to welfare payouts.
Your inflated figure is wrong, anyway. It even counts things like meals for the soldiers...because they'd have been in hibernation otherwise?
Oddly enough, economics isn't a zero-sum game. GDP went way up in the 2000s.
Things are not always as they seem. The Saudis directly fund Sunni fundamentalism (Wahabbism) to the tune of 7 billion a year and turn a blind eye to terrorism funding within their country. Every modern islamic terror organization can be traced bsck to the Saudis. How the fuck are they not responsible? We destroyed a country of 30 million because their dictator gave a few million to suicide bombers, but we let this shit go on? You're nuts. Its not about terrorism and never has been. It's about regional control.
>While the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) takes seriously the threat of terrorism within Saudi Arabia, it has been an ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist financing emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority.
> Still, donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.
>Popular opinion isn't a referendum
As OP, I'm glad you get it.
Now apply that to the topic at hand.
>War is justified if enough people want it.
That's literally the rationalize the terrorists use.
We had nothing to benefit from meddling in the Middle East. The money would have been better used for our ailing infrastructure. You know the shit we ignore that allowed things like Hurricane Katrina do what it did and so on? An infrastructure re-haul benefits all Americans.
Stupidest nonsense I've ever read
war in Iraq was literally Haliburton trying to take over the Middle eastern oil supply. The bush family has long worked for Haliburton and Cheney was it's CEO WHILE IN OFFICE.
>do not want democracy.
But it had to be shown. Without that, a large part of the world wouldn't believe it. People in a free society tend to believe everyone wants freedom.
That was Bush's big failing. He didn't understand that many people don't like to make decisions, and just want to go along with the crowd and be told what to do.
apologist shill detected
so how much do they pay you shill
Click the string of numbers by the post you want to reply to.
The French, the Germans, the Canadians didn't trust the intelligence agencies that turned out to be fabricating evidence and overhyping how sinister aluminum tubes were and demanded UN approval, Americans blindly trusted them because they're retards and their media at the time was under tight government control. Americans remember a universal consensus for the war and everybody agreeing it was a good idea and that we should support the troops, their media was literally 100% pro-war. The rest of the world remember the biggest anti-war protests ever and people pleading with the US to stop being retarded from the very start of the war.
Americans own government conspired against them and they ate it up, and now are trying to justify what happened, it's sort of like listening to somebody with stockholm syndrome. They're trying to rationalize what happened was just bad luck, they didn't really put their trust in corrupt crooks and total retards, what would have been crazy is NOT wasting a bunch of money in Iraq! George W Bush was a FANTASTIC president!
>The kurd situation was fine in Iraq (most of them died during the Gulf War).
Anyone that reads past your embarrassingly ignorant first line is hopeless.
Did you ever wonder how all those dead people are managing to push ISIS back? Fucking ZOMBIES!1!
Instead, check this out:
un.org
WMDs:
The nerve agent VX is one of the most toxic ever developed.
Iraq has declared that it only produced VX on a pilot scale, just a few tonnes and that the quality was poor and the product unstable. Consequently, it was said, that the agent was never weaponised. Iraq said that the small quantity of agent remaining after the Gulf War was unilaterally destroyed in the summer of 1991.
UNMOVIC, however, has information that conflicts with this account. There are indications that Iraq had worked on the problem of purity and stabilization and that more had been achieved than has been declared. Indeed, even one of the documents provided by Iraq indicates that the purity of the agent, at least in laboratory production, was higher than declared.
they want tradition. Their tradition is Islam. Islam says: no democracy, only a khalif.
Arabic modernisers are mostly 100+ IQ atheists. The average Arab IQ is low, so there are few right-tail-of-the-bell-curve atheists who reject Islam and want some more efficient system.
You are right. The Sauds are dicks.
But they aren't responsible to the King. There's no FBI to knock the palace doors down and haul them to jail.
They are just like NBA players, or lottery winners.
The only way to fix that Saudi government would destabilize them. Doing that back then, because of their oil, would have meant world war. There's no way around that.
>We destroyed a country of 30 million
No.
So few people understand what it was. There were a few million of one type who used terror and heavy weapons to dominate the majority.
In the US, it would be like south-side Chicago gangs running Illinois.
It appears everyone who was against our Iraq action knows nothing about it. Surprise.
>the US went to war for the kurds
That's hilarious. The kurds only revolted because the US promised to back them. Once it started we just sat back and watched them be slaughtered.
>War is justified if enough people want it.
>That's literally the rationalize the terrorists use.
Context, user. Use your brain.
Keep trying to twist the results shill by spewing your propaganda, nobody is blind.
In the meantime:
- more than 500 000 died and keep dying, the country is a wasteland and now instead of one Mussolini we have an Islamist hydra in the place more barbaric than ever
- you have an entire generation of demoralized soldiers psychologically or even pshycally crippled by endless deployments who fought during years against an invisible enemy, I don't even speak about the 5000 dead who joined the graves for nothing.
- the entire vaccuum of arab nationalism was filled by crazy psycho islamists with a woldwide influence
But hey, keep nitpicking facts to avoid to embrace the truth if it helps you to sleep, it is not like it will change the reality.
>The Iraq war was justified and necessary.
i'd have said misguided, utopian, and a total fucking shambles but whatever...
They're still at it to thIs day. ISIS, AQAP, and the Muslim Brotherhood are all Sunni fundamentalist with Saudi backing.
>so few people understand what it was
The fucking country devolved into a full on civil war. It wasn't just a bad neighborhood or city. The Sunni and Shia were actively forming militias and killing each other.
Its obvious that you read all this in a book, or heard about it on the radio. You have no clue what the hell you are going on about.
>We had nothing to benefit from meddling in the Middle East
Yes. It was spelled out in line one.
>The money would have been better used for our ailing infrastructure
Thanks, democrat party. How about another $1 trillion stimulus, on top of the $8 trillion in new debt you've run up? Didn't do shit, did it?
>You know the shit we ignore that allowed things like Hurricane Katrina do what it did and so on?
You mean building a fucking city below sea level, then trusting democrats like yourself to maintain it? You know nothing about that either, I see.
>An infrastructure re-haul benefits all Americans.
Separate topic.
In the 80's and 90's, congressmen sent paving projects home as pork to get re-elected.
It is physically impossible to maintain all that debt-financed infrastructure as-is.
It's up to the morons in the democrat party base, like yourself, to educate yourself beyond your feelings.
This thread requires a basic education, or at least the ability to think logically.
Did you ever read this?:
un.org
Only reason US economy is number 1 is because of petrodollar. We interfere with middle east to print more money for the fed.
>war in Iraq was literally Haliburton trying to take over the Middle eastern oil supply
Only Europe goes to war for oil.
No President ever made as much use of Halliburton as Obama has.
You know why?
Because they supply a service that is needed. There are two competitors: one French, and one...Qatari? Some muzzie country. Which one would you have used instead?
Two semi-literate responses in the whole thread.
Shame, Sup Forums.
You were wrong from the first sentence, hon.
Don't let your emotions blind you. You're only hurting yourself.
Instead of copypasting uncredited reddit pics, and ranting, why not some proof? Because you're just a bundle of emotions otherwise.
I feel legitimately bad for OP
The whole thread is just a clusterfuck of autism, the poor thing had an entire notepad full of pretyped links with no third party verifications. He literally planned this spergfest in advance, he is taking his reaction images out of google images without even changing the filenames and when faced with his bullshit he just gives out cringy responses like the fedora types who used to post on reddit in 2009.
I was about to post something mean but this...this is plain sad
Ok. Conceded. Now.
But the world didn't think so then. The US was dumped on for decades because we supported dictators.
And look at the replies in this thread. No one has a single fact. And they don't care.
I can admit now that it was a pointless war, but only because people in general don't seem to have the motivation or ability to look beyond their emotions.
>the US went to war for the kurds
>That's hilarious.
Well, you came up with the 'joke'.
I'm glad you amuse yourself, but why inflict it on us?
useful and saved
christ, those guys look like such dinosaurs now
>people are big 'ol meanie poopyheads.
You seem to have an education of sorts. Now apply it. Put your emotions aside.
"Wanting it" does not make the war "legal" and "justified"... otherwise you are condoning revenge for its own sake, and we have the New Testament now to say "eye for an eye" is obsolete.
Oho, Mexico does irony!
Stop replying cuck
The US supported dictators only as far as it was absolutely necessary geopolitically against the Communist block.
The USSR supported its own dictators, not democrats.
Right now it looks like even the more euro-mixed Turks want to slide back into their own caliphate.
The world looks bleak. Everybody goes into confrontational ideologies.
>The Iraq war was justified and necessary.
>i'd have said misguided, utopian, and a total fucking shambles but whatever...
It can be all those things, user. War always is, isn't it? That's why it's the last resort.
I wonder what people will say in 10 years, after Iran has nuked Paris?
>dam you US why u not attack iran i hate you bushhalliburtoncheney!1!
No there was chemicals munition. Most of it was from pre 1991 war which are said to have been lost track of during the war against Iran, and guess what? It was developped with the assistance of... The US! (and germainy and Italy apparently) trying to contain Iran. So they theyr were still lost ammunitions somewhere, but did you know in the last decade there were chemical weapons found in the US the the army lost track of ?
Weapons of mass destruction is a term you use now too broadly. It was at the time implied that IRaq had a nuclear program and that was false. There was chemical ammunitions (and they have been used during Iran/Iraq war) it was just not Weapons of mass destruction just "Weapons of Mass Destruction the usefull term that scares the average burger". Russia and China do have Weapons of mass destructions under the form of Nuclear weapons, and I dont see you invade them, funny isnt it? If Irak had weapons of mass destruction why didnt they used it against US military when they were shooting thousands of uranium based ammos against them?
We've been attacked by muzzies 3 times in the past year, and many times before that. Guess what? Saddam was not an Islamic leader. Do I have to tell you that the US are the ones who facilitated the Islamic coup in Iran in the 70s? That the country you help the most (and you politician receive most money from) are the Saudis who are financing the Mosques all over europe to islamize and radicalize people here ?
And yes after France joined NATO under Sarkozy, we went to Libya and caused all that shit. This has nothing to do with the current topic though. The fact that my governement is guitly of provoking thousands and thousands of death does not makes your government less guilty of its own mistakes. Additionnaly this Libyan war was made with the blessing of the US.
>The Sunni and Shia were actively forming militias and killing each other.
We had the same situation in the 1860's.
In fact, most countries have.
>Only reason US economy is number 1 is because of petrodollar.
Oil is the only thing that gave us civilization.
We still have it today, because of oil.
Energy is life itself.
>"Wanting it" does not make the war "legal" and "justified"
Those concepts are meaningless outside the borders of any given country. Was it 'legal' to invade Africa in 1942 to kick out the Germans?
>revenge for its own sake
Not revenge at all. That's all you.
Saddam was waging active warfare against us, just like ISIS is today.
>and we have the New Testament now to say "eye for an eye" is obsolete.
That's one book of many, that disagrees with the others, and is meaningless in this context anyway.
Shut down speech you don't like?
That's why you've always been a dictatorship. Like Iraq, you need a strongman.
iraq was a fabrication by fat dumb fuck americans to destabilize a whole region and kill countless non combatants and save there pathitic economy the same economy that is going to crash. nice try in turkey also you dumb sloppy cunts
AMERICA GET YOU SHIT TOGETHER
how about i clarify - it was a total fucking failure that destabilized the entire region and made the world a much more dangerous place.
>iran nuking paris
oh, that's in the cards, is it ? you have some link to intel that proves this is planned ? please share if so.
if, on the other hand, you're fear mongering and pulling stuff out of your ass in an attempt to prove your point... well, that's pretty much on a par with the level of propaganda the US used against it's own citizenry to justify the war, isn't it ?
Nothing wrong with a political discussion, but you are autistic and this thread is getting nowhere
>The US supported dictators only as far as it was absolutely necessary geopolitically against the Communist block.
Well...not entirely. We did a lot of that in Central and South America for economic interests.
I think that past has a lot to do with the feelings of today. We call it 'white guilt'.
...
OP BTFO
you are such a dumb cunt...
>muh gubmint was right in invading a soverign nation because they had proof given to them by themselves....