Is there a SINGLE rational argument against Capitalism?

Is there a SINGLE rational argument against Capitalism?

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Bezos.

The thing with socialism is that it is has a noble goal but it's just not feasible in a prescarcity world

biocide

I think capitalism is great as long as people are willing to kill their masters. Let the rich be rich, but they need to fear for their lives if they get out of hand. They are currently out of hand.

Also automation will make it untenable. How the fuck can the slave class consume resources with no good ways to make money? Not everyone can be a tradesman or a programmer. You can't just go get a factory job and live comfortably anymore. There are factors at play which will break the machine of capitalism in the long run but the prime movers don't want it to change out of greed. Thus we must kill them.

Quints of truth checked.

Socialism's goal is to fuck over hard working people and and eliminate the very essence of human nature. It's not remotely noble. Taking something from one person by force and giving it to another is neither charity nor just.

Rational arguments are useless. Human beings, by nature, are not rational creatures. That is why no system will ever work for long.

>as long as people are willing to kill their masters

I think there is much truth in this. People occasionally point to unions being a successful form of true capitalism. But only private unions. Public unions are bullshit subversion of our government. But a private union gives power to employees.

People need to be stronger with their powers. We have made taboo some key aspects that empower workers. People should be open about their pay. Keeping pay and benefits secret helps companies fuck employees better. People should not buy into any notions of "loyalty". No company is loyal to its employees, employees should not be loyal to their company, insofar as sticking around when it becomes disadvantageous.

fair point

that is why I said it would work in a post scarcity world. Because at that point every one could live comfortably. However seeing as we have literally no means of which to get to this point capitalism will remain the superior system.

Having a factory job only provided a comfortable living for a short period of time in the US after WWII destroyed most of the factories in the rest of the world. For the rest of the time that factories have existed they have been the employers of last resort for the unskilled and unmotivated.

I don't want to pay for literally everything, basic needs should be free. Free healthcare, free education. And of course there should be free things like water, basic food, basic clothes, basic apartment and all that.

Demand economies will always result in scarcity because demand economies have proven time and time again that they cannot manage resource distribution.

>Also automation will make it untenable. How the fuck can the slave class consume resources with no good ways to make money?

This is one of the best arguments against all iterations of planned economies. I remember being in a classroom and having 1 chance to explain what I fundamentally opposed about socialism/communism/etc. it's the idea that we can decide now a single way humans should live. I don't like that. Humans should be free to live and redefine a "life" anyway they want.

We build infrastructure to accommodate the kinds of lives most people live, but if you look back over the last 200 years there has been NO "way" to live. The idea of what a life is, is ever changing. Authoritarian systems presume to know how everyone is going to live from birth.

The fear of automation assumes people need to have jobs to live. What if I just walked into a forest and lived off the land? I should be free to do so. What if I decide to form a commune community of co-subsistence? I should be free to do that. I shouldn't need "money" or a "job" I should need options. Choices.

That's what capitalism is, it's what humans do when they get to make their own choices. And what they do is ever changing. If a small percent of techies put everyone out of work, they won't have money, and they won't be able to buy the tech, and the companies will run out of money. What next?

The answer has always been up to free thinking people to make shit up and see what they like. The market follows, the market doesn't lead. Socialism/Communism dictate markets, they have no foresight. They presume, they do not innovate. Jobs and money are just means to an end. Capitalism at its core is an ideology that humans are entirely capable of thinking through and creating solutions that never existed before.

That's not really the goal of socialism. That's the goal of politicians and bureaucrats who use whatever political system is in place to their advantage.

Most socialism these days amounts to people who want to vote for tax money that goes to social program spending as opposed to corporate welfare and military.

Capitalism obviously isn't working because cocaine is still illegal in most capitalist states.

I'm sure teachers, nurses, doctors and home builders would be thrilled to find out they are singled as their labor being without value and must be provided without compensation.

You dumb fuck, the government should pay to those people, not you (not even with taxes)

Based.

Time to eat rich.

It may not be the goal of socialism, but that's the way it goes everytime it's tried.

Where does the government get the money to do that retard?

Let me make it simple for you, taxes.

"the government should pay"

Where does all of this magic money come from? Thin air?

Welfare is a capitalism or a socialism? Some people just can't work at all, like me.

What you're suggesting results in a monetary unit (think money) that is without value. You might as well suggest we pay them in sea shells.

So, hard working people should prop up your worthless life so you can just basically exist and consume finite resources ever contributing to society.

Wrong, the government should trade with other countries and use that money to pay salaries and not to buy another big ass house or a yacht while poor people starving to death on the streets.

Government welfare is socialist. Private welfare such as churches and benevolence funds are capitalist. People who give willingly to a church or charity do so to feel good about themselves and that's the thing they are buying. Kind of like giving a bum a dollar, you're literally buying a 'God bless you'.

Trade what, idiot? Thoughts and prayers?

Where do you think these magical items to be traded come from?

Governments don't trade because they don't produce products. Companies trade, and governments tax that trade. So it still comes down to taxing someone to get what you want.

So we don't need government at all.

You fucking retard, you can only trade natural resources, if your A: lucky enough to have them, and B: have enough to last the rest of time, anything else traded, would be provided by or manufactured by a workforce, who would need paying.

Then who pays the teachers and builders?

We need governments to keep assholes from shitting on people and enforce good behavior. Society makes the rules and government enforces them, or at least the ones that are seen as most important.

billionaires are assholes

problem with capitalism in times of automation is that people mostly just have the choice between 1-2 classic career paths ... ironically people in the future need more education like skilled in 4-5 jobs ranging from easy to professional level in order to make a living because 40 hrs / week jobs will vanish...

What you're saying is that helping people makes you an asshole. If I got paid 1 cent everytime someone used Google then instantly when the 100 billionth person used Google I'd be an asshole. Does curing too many people make a doctor an asshole? How about a teacher? Do they become assholes after they've taught more than a certain number of students? (Actually I've met a few teachers this has happened to..lol)

but money does come out of thin air under a fiat currency
which is what america has

The US is the sole issuer of the US Dollar, so taxes don't pay for shit. The US treasury pays out directly into people's bank accounts
taxes merely make a nation's population want to trade in that unit of value as the IRS doesn't accept goats as payments
Taxes also curb inflation because you can't print too much money like zimbabwe by over valuing the labor your work force can produce

That air is not as thin as you make it seem. With fiat currency each unit represents a fraction of the total net worth of the entire economy. A government printing more currency is tantamount to a tax because each unit printed devalues all other units in circulation by a marginal amount.
Economics is like physics you can't get away from it by simply making declarations.

We'll start with Bernie

nope a flawed system
is far better then a FAILED system

Fucking over hard working people HAHAHAHAHAHA
Are you just ignoriing the fact that literally NO ONE that makes over 200k does so by working hard? And dont be one of those cunts that claims current america isnt real capitalism like communists do

your explanation of socialism doesn't work out and what you think is the rich is the lower middle class. are you under 25 or NEET?

why do the poor all live off of social programs and what do they pay the rich for in your head? it wouldn't eliminate the rich or the poor. it creates social crisis and class conflcts. look at england the poor people on benefits all think they can become rappers and the poor people on minumum wage all think they can make £12p/h by 70 or break off into a career in beauty therapy everybody else is doing ok.

There are lots of things people get paid for besides physical labor. Intelligence, foresight, managerial expertise, and simply taking responsibility just to name a few. Most have some of these traits very, very few have all of them and even fewer have them in just the right mix for a particular situation or organization. This is what makes people worth those huge paychecks you feel are unjustified, but just like rockstars they are worth it to those who are willing to pay them based upon performance.

No, there are many, but you wouldn't understand.

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Except that's not what it's about. Original point was about hard working people which these are not. These people are LUCKY, except for a select few they are all replacable and those few that have the talents of 1 in a billion, dont even earn that much

>Is there a SINGLE rational argument against Capitalism?

Lots of them. There just aren't that many good arguments in favor of alternatives, since none have ever really worked on a large scale. Of course, some particular socialist *programs* are super successful, but we don't adopt them because of people like OP.

Fig 4. should just be the text of capital but it's too long so it wouldn't fit. and you probably wouldn't understand it anyways

inflation is unavoidable. that is why draining the pool of money with taxes is so important to make sure the money in an economy is flowing and not stagnating

Reminder that fiat means "by decree"

also:
>fraction of the total net worth of the entire economy

not true as the money pool of an economy (the US's) is constantly being drained by hoarders, exports (money wires to south of the border) and taxes.

This stupidity is the result of decades of right-wing propaganda. You like not working 18-hour days, 7 days a week with no safety regulations or guaranteed vacation or pay? Thank a socialist.

You know who steals your hard-earned money? The so-called 'capitalists', the same guys that gut social programs like public health, education and environmental regulations and convince you they are too expensive, but are totally ok blowing a trillion dollars a year on military spending.

capitalism gay

furthermore i have fixed it

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you rely on public sector and international trade to maintain the value of your money and to keep people employed.

otherwise you can not pay tax to hand out to neets and overpay people who like their middle class honest living in human traffic

Inflation is when there are more dollars available than materials to buy (caused by over printing money) therefore the 'cost' of things go up because each dollar has become worth slightly less.
Inflation is not inevitable. If GDP goes up and new monies are not printed then deflation occurs which is where the monetary unit gains value and the price of things begin to drop.
Additionally the government does not take money out of the economy (usually or on purpose). What generally happens is that the government spends the taxes it collects so inefficiently that the work and effort that those dollars represent is wasted.
What you are advocating for is literally government waste.

when there are not enough jobs for the unemployed in england we draft people who's parents didn't want them for eternal neetism whether they are retarded by whatever means or would do a better job without being screwed over by whatever public sector or conspiracy the government funded industry are utilizing to create a 'need for funding'. preventing people from joining in capitalism and making idiots blame private industry like supermarkets and farms for their problems.

It doesn't work.
Like everything.

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a good ewxample is england under jeremy corbyn - he wanted to increase the minimum wage and corporations have profit margins, they would employ less people, who would pay less tax between them and it would cause a recession and increase the cost of living. increasing tax would further increase the cost of living and public sector mental health workers and police would be the only people to benefit. a more socialist thing to do would be to not tax public service and re-allocate funding in healthcare to overcrowded areas and stop listening to nutjobs who believe everybody who got hit as a child is autistic.

private sector pay for all of your working class jobs. chasing them away would stop the flow of money entirely and eventually create a POLICE STATE due to INCREASED CRIME and funding needed for GHETTOS for people who woill NEVER FIND WORK BECAUSE OF SOCIALISM what you want are LABOR UNIONS.

The one you posted?

>If GDP goes up and new monies are not printed then deflation occurs which is where the monetary unit gains value and the price of things begin to drop.

But this will never happen in America. America is too addicted to military spending and that spending directly employs everyone involved in research and in uniform

>What generally happens is that the government spends the taxes it collects so inefficiently that the work and effort that those dollars represent is wasted.
-under a non fiat system. Under fiat there is literally no need to waste effort on redistributing money that can be created anyway,
There is no waste involved in merely subtracting numbers from someone's bank account into nothing to keep inflation down. I'm not talking about destroy dollar bills that cost money to make but numbers that only exist on spreadsheets.

Fiat constantly replaces the money destroyed by taxes on the federal level. There is no need for federal taxes to fund federal spending

How about this.
All successful capitalist countries have 3 things in common:
>low fertility rates
>horrible pollution
>high depression and suicide rates

OP image is pretty much the trope namer for the straw man fallacy.

2/3 good things

horrible pollution can stay it creates jobs for climate change people

and low fertility stops us from creating more climate change people

people are killing themselves more if there is no pollution believe in the bigger conspiracy

plus depression creates jobs in healthcare what doesnt work about that in socialism? nothing look at the suicide rates and mental health in the UK and swizerland. retards win lower class problems every time for NO GOOD REASON.

In my experience, it is not hard to get by.
Save a little, invest in something. I didn't even finish highschool but I make good money and own a house and I see a bright future.

All the socialists I see ranting about the rich just want freebies and they want to make an unfair system when nothing gets done and nothing works. Better to just let people be greedy and tax to cover the people who are disabled etc.

Capitalism is great as long as you prevent corporation from becoming too large. The more choices the consumer has the better. In a lot of modern capitalist systems the corporations hijack democracy to enrich themselves and ultimately destroy real capitalism. Companies face no consequences for bad business practices and are bailed out and allowed to fuck up over and over. . If companies were made to face consequences they would practice better business. This also contributes to the loss of competition within the system. Capitalism is all about competition. Corporations are all about preventing competition which is the cause of the problems we face in capitalist systems.