/pol was it justified for Russia to take Crimea? Seems like it was to me?

/pol was it justified for Russia to take Crimea? Seems like it was to me?

Discuss.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

why not, ukrainians are white niggers and were collaborating with the islamic state

From what I understand, Crimea was given to Ukraine when they were a satellite state of the USSR, when the USSR collapsed, Russia lost Crimea.

When the Ukrainian revolution happened, Putin protected ethnic Russians, and took back Crimea without a shot fired. Also extremely important military asset because of ports.

Yes because otherwise Crimea would have become a NATO base for Ukraine.

Anyway, like they can do something about it.

World has grown soft and static.

It was unreasonable to actually allow it to secede from Ukraine and join the territory of the Russian Federation. It was fine to wrench it away from Ukraine after the CIA-sponsored coup in general though, since it's pretty much a russian territory.

It should've had a similar status as South Ossetia, Transnistria and Abkhazia. That way the Western countries, aside from the United States, wouldn't have flipped shit and started all the "Hitler zomg" comparisons.

I agree, I am just more or less asking if the stated reasons are legit.

Every Ukrainian I talked to either don't care or is pro Russia.

Yes 100% justified, Crimea is rightful Russian clay

>Sup Forums has no problem with Russia taking Crimea because it's their historical land

>Sup Forums has a problem with Jews taking a small portion of Greater Israel because it's their native and historical land

>ukranians were collaborating with the islamic state
>that's a reason for annexing Crimea
How the absolute fuck do you figure that.
Never mind the part where it didn't happen, how about the part where ISIS didn't even rise until the summer of 2014 and Crimea was annexed in the spring.

Seems like the only people who don't understand that are the ones who couldn't point out Crimea on a map and have utterly no understanding of history. Seems like /pol comes out on top with a lot of issues because of this.

To begin with Ukraine was never a country.
It litelally means "Borderland" in slavic and was always a part if Russian empire, then a part of USSR and while it was in USSR it was like a state in US but without local laws, and Crimes was considered a part of that state.

Ukraine to Russian is like if Texas actually comitted Texit and claimef to be the greatet and proud nation of Texasians opressed by filthy Murricans.

At least 1 person got shot

People here don't think rationally. They will just call you kike and shill because it was the meme buzzwords they were taught. For some reason people think Russia is "le savior of white race xddd" because why not.

rofl Ukraine means borderland? Hahaha

That's what you get for creating Macedonia out of rightful Bulgarian clay you imperialist fuck

No it was not.

Russia broke international agreement and did show the world that the word and honor of russia is a shit worth.

You got a contract with russia?
Nope you dont they do what they want. Because the given word cant be trusted.

Russia did not just invade ukraine and ocupies krim. They destroyed there nations credebilety.

What the fuck...

Nope. Thread is full of Putin shills.

Neither Ukraine or Russia should own it.
Crimea should be an independent state.

Actually

it should be given to China

Shouldn't you be stopping your wife or gf from getting raped? Are you talking about the UN? Because I've taken shits larger than the UN's authority.

Crimea is Detroit with a sea.
They were sucking our money for 24 years and now Russian politicians steal hundreds of billions of rubles from that "Bridge" they are building. Ukriane, Russia - same shit, different proportions. We are the same. We get fucked by our own politicians.
Retards from both sides fight while (((they))) make money. It's been like that forever.

Stated reasons are "protecting russians in Crimea".
I remember how in 2014 state TV blared "evil ukrainian neonazis are marching towards Crimea as we speak!" shit 24 hours a day. I even remember the exact phrase, "кapaтeльныe бaтaльoны Пpaвoгo Ceктopa".
The real reason was to avoid paying for a naval base there. What they said on TV is just hot air. They lied to us, to russian citizens who pay taxes that go into their pockets. It exactly the same as Iraq WMD bullshit.

Ethnic Self-Determination is a precedent set by Europe at the end of WWI, no idea why they get so butthurt when Russia puts it into action.

Crimea is culturally and ethnically Russian, if they genuinely wanted to leave the Ukraine and join Russia, why the hell not?

I don't know or care. What I do know is that the people voted strongly to join Russia in the referendum, not to mention it brought that beautiful prosecutor into public discourse, though.

Dragons shiting bears.

A nigthmare.

Face the facts.
Russias word is a shit worth. Proven by russians them self.

No
Pinkos fuck off

>"кapaтeльныe бaтaльoны Пpaвoгo Ceктopa"
I thought it was a joke. It was serious?

All depends on your degree of moral relativism.

Did they not only bend, but break international treaties?
yes.

Did they benefit considerably from it?
yes.

Were they provoked?
yes.

Going by hardline stance, russia broke the sacred commandment that borders are never to be redrawn, no matter the reason, and so was never justified.

Going by realpolitik stance, there was provocation, since Maidan had extensive outside influence. It was an oportunity to salvage something from the loss of a powerful sattelite.

Going by tibla stance, it was all just, all former sattelites are russian blessed soil, Putin dindu nuffin wrong, plus Ukrainians are now hitler/homo combination.

Well, we have our fleet there, there are a lot of people who service that fleet and many more who in general sympathize with Russia. Leaving it as it is was compromising. So may be there were no clear legal reasons other than referendum, but real geopolitical reasons were present. I also think that Ukrain was ready to sell Crimea to chinesewho want to build their neo silk road and would probably used it as one of the end ports.

It was only given away to the ukrainian republic under USSR because internal borders inside USSR were seen as bureaucratic formalities.

And to be honest, the fact that Ukrain did not oppose it in any form other than whining invalidates any claims they have. They had the opportunity to fight for it and they retreated.

The justification lies in the referendum held by the crimean people asking to be anexed to the russian federation.

There are also geopolitical justifications, such as the coup in ukraine was perpetrated in order to leave russia without their only warm water naval base and their acces to the mediterranean.

Without crimea russia would have died as a protoempire, it would have meant no power projection aka no help to syria and their allies aka their international suicide.

Literally their options were, accpet defeat and surrender to the globalist, or fight and claim rightful rusian clay.

it was subhuman slav russians chimping out as they are wont to do

It's not rightful Russian land though
And only faggots think Israel doesn't have a right to the land
Acis lost WW2 therefore the land belongs to us and that land was gifted to the Jews to keep them out of Europe
Spoils of war is a thing

>trusting a Russian
>ever

Fuck guys this shit isn't hard. You shake their hand while having a weapon in the other, ready to strike them when they strike you. And they will strike, be sure of that.

they have their own language

IDK, I thought that everybody new what's up.

Yes. It was Russian long before the first US president was elected.

LMAO you dumb nigger.
Ukraine did what is permitted by Right to Self-Determination. They are a sovereign nation by law. If I apply your logic of "they were in Russia for so long, therefore they are Russian" to Russia itself, we'd have to run back to Swedes or Mongolians and submit to them.

what do you mean by justified?

justified according to who?

only proper way to judge is by cost-benefit analysis

felemenderit USA

Yes, it is the exact quote from state TV.

Everything is realpolitik, there is just more bullshit, more smoke and mirrors in modern times.

trust but verify

Yes it was historic Russian territory for the most part so it was justified for it to be Russian. However taking it by force was not the best way to do it.

I don't really care either way because it was just going from one slavic shithole to another but the way Russia lied about it using bullshit like "muh self-organized militia with full military equipment" kind of pissed me off. But in the end there was no actual war so it doesn't matter.

Now the shit Russia pulled in Donbass on the other hand is a complete mess and should have never been done, but with Jewtin in office it was inevitable.

The referendum wasn't legal
It had no point because they never had it made into a legal vote before ha in the vote take ace
Thats how referendums work
You go through the required laws to make the vote legal
Then you have the vote
Russia should be nuked for stealing the land and killing Ukrainians

what treaties did they break?
as far as I know ukraine should have allowed the crimean referendum to be accepted.
Ukraine also break a treaty were the soviet union allowed them "independence" but only if they allowed russian use of the crimean naval base. With the coup poroshenko told the russian to gtfo of crimea, what meant a break in the treaty.

And you will be at the vanguard.

Skyrim Belongs to the Nords

Oi, we learned from you, western world. You taught us realpolitik, and we learned well.

Yeah it's too bad the Crimeans were only good at slave trading the slavs. Maybe they can go back to doing that? Make Crimea Great Again?

So...do you guys support -anyone- attempting to get land that was historically theirs?

>voting at gunpoint
>"""""referendum"""""

also you should educate yourself before speaking argentina

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

Right after I met some crimeans on holidays, they were quite ok with the situation politically since ukraine is slavic, russia is slavic. Both countries were considered ok because they were slavic.

She was worried about the economic consequences though.

Give it up. You've been caught

the ukraine's coup was soros' doing, it's yet another puppet government, the only difference is that obviously people are more civilized the farther they're from the middle-east, that's why ukraine didn't turn in a complete shithole after the coup.

Mexicans can try, they will have fun playing catch with hollow points.

...

>but with Jewtin in office it was inevitable

nice try (((Kolomoysky)))

what makes a referendum ilegal? Is the will of the people. Are you somehow saying that a piece of paper redacted by old farts is above the will of the people?
Also, you are forgeting, maybe on purpose, hoping I'm retarded, that ukraine suffered a coup, perpetrated by CIA assets, with an estimatd 5 billion dollars spent by the US.

Did the people vote acording to all legal principples?
Fuck no
Was it legal?
fuck no

the literally chimped out baltimore style

At least crimeans voted in a civilized way, in a way were all crimeans knew whatg they wanted, and it was not being aprt of a puppet state what they wanted.

I don't know where you got this from. A lot of people I know are still believing that Ukrainian gov't are bonafide neo-nazis (as opposed to the same greedy oligarchs as those in Russia), and that there were "millions of nazi soldiers" marching towards Crimea, only stopped by heroic soldiers without identifying markings. I shit you not, this is the exact words I heard from my coworker.

It's funny because by their own logic America wouldn't even exist.

Пpипeклo?

Oficially Russian ensured that democtatic referendum was considered without ukrainian pressure on the people, and without a single shot fired.
As if We only made sure that Ukrainians wont blow referendum up.

And in the same time economic sanctions were applied against all nirms and regulations.
You just broke all trade deals one sidedly.
Nobody ever played by the rules, but you only remember about them when Russian does it.
>Murrika doesnt like Gaddhafy - its ok to blow him up
>Murrika wants to build nato base rightnext to Moscow - its not ok to take that land

>outside influence

i am not naive, but the demonstrations were started when janukovich stepped back from eu negotiations and that was obviously because putin did not let him continue
what could he offer, cheaper gas, which is stolen by ukrainian politicians

is it so surprising people go to the streets after that?

what the fuck are you talking about?
There was NOT A SINGLE SHOT fired during crimean anexation.

do you really think that if the crimeans wanted to be part of ukraine, they wouldn't have fought back?

Whatever, you are probably ukranian diaspora.

We don't care OP, we just want to be friends.
Sorry this is too late to be recognized.

>10% of Israeli population is Jewish, get 51% of the land

>Crimea is 95% Russian, get 100% of the land

And - claim through the Old Testament vs recently lost territories.

no. i'm pro-ukraine.

what is the bigger threat for Russia?
US, EU or China?

exactly, I can't believe what I'm reading, is as if america was born from a legal document sent by the king, for fucks sake.

Anyone can try. Make wars great again. I wan't to see a norlam healthy war with clear goals, not some endless democracy installment and freedomfighting between shitskin terrorists. Fight for clay and colonize shit.

Of course it was justified

Cuckraine should be glad it ended up so well

>what treaties did they break?
Budapest Treaty. USA broke it too btw.
>as far as I know ukraine should have allowed the crimean referendum to be accepted
The one that Strelkov, the commander of that whole operation, admitted was made on gunpoint? Sure thing, bro. Should I remind you what happened the last time a region tried to secede from Russia?
>With the coup poroshenko told the russian to gtfo of crimea
What the FUCK are you talking about? Poroshenko wasn't even known to the country back then. There was NOTHING said about Crimea officially, not even plans to renew or not renew the lease in 3 years.

>There was NOT A SINGLE SHOT fired during crimean anexation.

tell that to the tatars that were executed by little green men. they wouldn't let international observers in because there were soldiers stationed at the polling areas, how is that a legal referendum?

>Ukraine did what is permitted by Right to Self-Determination.
And crimeans did the same.
Check and mate.

Why the fuck should Tatars vote on Crimean referendum? That is like saying illegal Mexican immigrants should vote in American elections

>1760's politics and rules are the same as modern day Europe
Kill yourself

>Are you somehow saying that a piece of paper redacted by old farts is above the will of the people?
All EU policy is about this.

All of them. "Russia has only two allies: its army and navy"

The USA should be nuked for all the dumb, fat burgers shitting up the world, and the world wide web.

Russia's "crimes" are microscopic compared to the ones of your own state.

If they wanted to be dirty ruskies so bad they should have just moved to Russia by crossing the border
They had no right to steal land from Ukraine, they weren't even being mistreated in any way

As told, its a confusing mix of both. People had a reason to be pissed, but they have had that different grievances for a long time already. Its escalation from a simple political action into an outright coup is however very suspicious.

As told, it was europe who urged the protests on overtly, giving promises that Ukraine would be welcomed into the busom of europe in a heartbeat the moment Janukovich is overthrown. Its not to say that the random peon is completely without a will of his own, but the way this event unraveled was supported, and slavs claim even directly guided by western interests.

As told, its not about if it was just or not that the west destabilized janukovich regime. What matters is that the act itself was done, and no matter its justification, it can be considered a provocation.

You're right, 1760s politicians would have killed and been rid of Saudi Arabia long time ago.

rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/

there is no fucking way, that 97,5 answered yes
it's impossible, so the referendum was cheated

i do think the majority would have chosen Russian, but 97,5 it's nonsense

Whoaaa whoaaa. Whats going on here? Is that banner real?

pretty much this

American education at work again.

Soros. We can deal with all of the above, But if this heartless vampire with his puppets ever manages to make significant progress here, Russia will probably start a civil war and either will burn the whole world in nuklear flames, or will be eaten by chinese and muslims, with cople of northern territories remaining independent( because fuck it's freezing) and european part gravitating to the EU.

Why don't you go make sure that your wives/gfs/mothers aren't being raped.

outskirts correctly

Crimean Tatars are natives of Crimea. It would be kind of like forbidding native americans from voting.

Or it'll be ignored.

95% or something are Russian there though. 82,5% voter turn-out.

>The one that Strelkov, the commander of that whole operation, admitted was made on gunpoint?
2 millions people take 2 millions guns.
Also Strelkov is international terrorist with antikremlin agenda and his voice mean nothing.

>US literally hasn't committed any crimes since 2004
>Russiastan hasn't done nearly as bad
If you like being a pinko so much why don't you go to your glorious commie hellhole instead of shitting up Norway?
Or are you too much of a cuck to practice what you preach?

After they took the barracks and airfields? Ammo dumps and storages. Sry you are full of bulshit.
Kiev did and strikes back.

In Soviet Russia border crosses you.

if you link me a source of strelkov admiting they held the crimean people hostage and forced them to vote yes in the referendum, I will accept defeat, otherwise, my point stands.

Also, I do not think strelkov was responsible at all of the crimean situation, I thought he was involved in the novorossya shitstorm. maybe I'm wrong, I'm not claiming to know it all, but that is what I had read and watched on videos.
The crimean anexation was an entirely russian operation, strelkov is somewhat an independent warlord, if it is correct to call him like that, a warlord that putin did not want to have too much power so he prohibited him from continuing his fight in novorossya.

>there was never a Ottoman ruled Cossack state
>there were never numerous attempts at Cossack independence
These guys wanted out even before the 30 years war.