/who/ Doctor Who General

Heaven Sent edition.

Would you spend 4.5 billion years in a prison, fighting your way out just to save the one you love?

Last fred

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(already posted on other thread, but in case people aren't using notifications…)

In the novel Interference, there's an implication that Fitz may have managed to hold onto his memory of the Doctor for 800 years despite dying multiple times and being recreated from other people's remembrances of him each time.

That's actually a lot sweeter (without getting into the running theme/joke/whatever of whether his love is romantic/sexual or not) than Rory or Twelve. It's just plausible enough that you can imagine someone sane actually doing that. And he's not uselessly throwing away dozens (or millions) of lifespans worth of life, he's still living.

I understand why Moffat wants to exaggerate the idea to make it more grand and dramatic, but I think the subtler version could be more effective, even on a 45-minute TV episode.

Who /nilso/ here

For Clala. Hell yes.

Thread theme: youtube.com/watch?v=nqpzv6v5KBM

Turn this around:

If you loved someone, would you want them to go through 4.5 billion years of self-inflicted torture to save you?

I think he was so much better in S2 in part because he was de facto in charge of the show, whereas in S1 RTD was trying to run things but basically not getting the job done because he was overworked.

That's mostly based on reading between the lines in The Writer's Tale and RTD interviews, so it may not be true, but…if it is, then it's a hopeful sign for DW S11.

>this thread
>Immigrant reveals there is a new secret trip club where they exchange fanfics about their mutual bumming fantasies
>Cloister reveals the memes about his imminent death aren't just memes as he could literally lose consciousness and die any second
>Danny Pink Husbando user has a crush on Edge Lord Victorious, who is some kind of pre-op transexual

wew lads

That's true. I still hope we all find someone willingto love us "forever".

Oooh that's pretty nice, wasn't he a companion of 8? Yeah that sounds way more subtle than Moffat's grandiose scripts, and it's also cute in its own way. Never forgetting, whatever happens.

... I never wondered. That's a horrible thought to have, God no.

Reminder not to respond to obvious mongo posting.
>if someone calls you cats or cloister.
>he's reeing now, good
>bored, kiddo?
>he's touching his peepee
>mongo likes candy
>anything about Jason/Billy/Connor/other random names
>this post has given you out
>thanks for confirming [whatever]
>anything about VPNs
Report these and move on. Do not reply to obvious bait.

However, in Heaven Sent the Doctor's grief is still fresh for a large part of each 'loop'. So he's not allowed to forget Clara or come to terms with the loss.

He doesn't remember all the previous loops when he reaches room 12. And each time that loss and grief multiplies thousands/ millions/ billions and eventually trillions fold.

SECRET TRIP DISCORD LINK:

discord.gg/pq7BaQ4

Not even if I was promised a night with the teninch

I regret ever letting 'the secret trip discord' become a meme

Wew lad I only said his Fady drawing almost looked like me.

Sorry, he doesn't remember all the previous loops *until he reaches room 12.

And each time that loss and grief multiplies thousands/ millions/ billions and eventually trillions fold.

>Oooh that's pretty nice, wasn't he a companion of 8?
Of course, because 8's the one everybody falls in love with. :)

Anyway, it does get creepy at the end (this is a Larry Miles book…). The Doctor offers to use the TARDIS to reset him back 800 years to the Fitz he remembers, and Fitz agrees to it. They both seem to realise that amounts to a murder/suicide, and even lie to the other companions about it. But every once in a while, Fitz (just like Rory) remembers, even though it's impossible.

Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
Time Lord psychopath killing all the people.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
Psycho killer, with the ill behaviour.

Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
The Doctor's nemesis, a returning villain.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
Now called Missy, with the ill behaviour.

It's the Renegade Master.
Killing all the people.
It's the Renegade Master.
With the ill behaviour.
Time Lord psychopath killing all the people.
Psycho killer, with the ill behaviour.

No my dear Doctor, you must die.
Die Doctor. Die Doctor. Die. Die.

The Doctor's nemesis, a returning villain.
Now called Missy, with the ill behaviour.
The Doctor's nemesis, a returning villain (Die, die Doctor)
Now called Missy, with the ill behaviour.

Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
Killing all the people.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
With the ill behaviour.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
A returning villain.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
With the ill behaviour.

Back once again the original Master. (Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!)

Yup, that's what the whole "And that's when I remember" shows perfectly. We only saw the 7,000 year one but imagine after 4.5 billion years. The grief turns into so much more.

Threadly reminder

Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
Time Lord psychopath killing all the people.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
Psycho killer, with the ill behaviour.

Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
The Doctor's nemesis, a returning villain.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
Now called Missy, with the ill behaviour.

It's the Renegade Master.
Killing all the people.
It's the Renegade Master.
With the ill behaviour.
Time Lord psychopath killing all the people.
Psycho killer, with the ill behaviour.

No my dear Doctor, you must die.
Die Doctor. Die Doctor. Die. Die.

The Doctor's nemesis, a returning villain.
Now called Missy, with the ill behaviour.
The Doctor's nemesis, a returning villain (Die, die Doctor)
Now called Missy, with the ill behaviour.

Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
Killing all the people.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
With the ill behaviour.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
A returning villain.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
With the ill behaviour.

Back once again the original Master. (Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!)

If you want to shitpost about her just go on her Twitter.

Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
Time Lord psychopath killing all the people.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
Psycho killer, with the ill behaviour.

Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
The Doctor's nemesis, a returning villain.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master,
Now called Missy, with the ill behaviour.

It's the Renegade Master.
Killing all the people.
It's the Renegade Master.
With the ill behaviour.
Time Lord psychopath killing all the people.
Psycho killer, with the ill behaviour.

No my dear Doctor, you must die.
Die Doctor. Die Doctor. Die. Die.

The Doctor's nemesis, a returning villain.
Now called Missy, with the ill behaviour.
The Doctor's nemesis, a returning villain (Die, die Doctor)
Now called Missy, with the ill behaviour.

Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
Killing all the people.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
With the ill behaviour.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
A returning villain.
Back once again it's the Renegade Master (Die)
With the ill behaviour.

Back once again the original Master. (Mwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!)

Christ that sounds like a proper downer, erasing 800 years of his life. Why did he accept? Didn't he move on? And why does he remember?

Yeah, that does make a difference. He's basically committing to it before he realises what he's committing to, then having the full pain hit him all at once when it's too late to back down, and knowing he's going to do it all over again, and again, and again…

Except that it really isn't too late to back down. At some point (probably after only a few times, not billions…) I would decide I can't take it getting any worse, and there's no way I'm going to make it through a billion times as much as this so I won't be able to save her anyway, and even if I did what kind of lunatic monster would I be by the end of it?

Of course the Doctor is stronger than us. He is a bit of a monster by the end of it, but really not that terrible, and he'll be able to recover from it and rebuild.

Theres something about Christel Dee that I can't stand. What is it?

The ill behaviour

That's Renegade Master filtered for me, alright.

Don't know why but I read that in Moffat's voice. Good points all around.

R3negade M@ster filtered? youtube.com/watch?v=eJR_dX8i0ww

The lesbianism

And thinking about it, Hell Bent makes perfect sense in retrospect.

By then, the whole hybrid thing means nothing to him. He's spent billions of years grieving for Clara, she's all that matters to him by then.

The 'memory wipe' was the only way he could move on after that, ensuring that the emotional connection was gone.

Yeah I think that
Is she actually a dyke? I didn't know

...

I actually kind of liked her, she's a Classicfag and that's always nice.

Then I looked at her social media and all she talks about apart from Doctor Who is that she's gay and goes to the gym and hates Donald Trump

>Is she actually a dyke? I didn't know
user just look at her

Thread theme remix: youtube.com/watch?v=lJSd2hJLn2g

I guess, but thats not it

Christel talks to Pearl and Moffat youtube.com/watch?v=npLrFm0_KJ0

I haven't read it in a while, but I don't think it's explained. But all the possibilities are creepy and/or depressing: he thinks original-Fitz was happier than Kode-FItz, or a better person than Kode-Fitz, or he knows it's what the Doctor wants, or he doesn't believe the Doctor's really giving him a choice… But Fitz gets a happy story in the long run, so don't feel too bad. (Or, if you want to feel bad, he has so much other horrible shit happen to him before and after this book…)

As for why he occasionally remembers… magic, I guess. If you pressed Miles, he'd probably say biodata. If you pressed Moffat on how Rory sometimes remembers being plastic, he'd write that Night and the Doctor minisode where the Doctor tells Amy that it's not possible but it's true anyway because sometimes the universe is just like that. But either way, magic.

Bingo. I never looked at it this way, because I thought the grief from her loss was fresh enough for him but I hadn't realised it had been multiplied this much. This reinforces his behaviour in Hell Bent and why he really had to forget her. It was the only way anyway, she'd been part of his whole life (with Name) and even if he didn't notice her all the time, he spent 900 years on Trenzalore with her in mind since he remembered her when she came back at the end. Forgetting her truly was the only way.

...

Imagine what would have happened if her memory had been wiped instead of his. The universe would not be safe from that Doctor.

>tfw you're suicidal and just want to "go away"

This is why I don't understand why people hate on Hell Bent so much. Yeah, he got back to Gallifrey. But as an emotional drama it works if you're paying attention.

And Gallifrey can be returned to anytime, by a show runner brave enough to tackle the vast mythology without annoying continuity obsessive fans.

THE VALEYARD

Moffat writes character-driven farces, not showy-for-the-sake-of-it stories.

Which part of emotional drama works?

Speaking of Hell Bent, where were all the silver trees, snowy mountains, and red grass that Ten described? It just looked like all of Gallifrey was one big badlands.

Thats whats in the basement

Theres probably different areas like earth, desert and forrest etc

It wasn't the story anyone expected. Gallifrey returning is supposed to be epic timey-wimey deep-lore fanwankery, and instead it turns out to be an emotional drama where Gallifrey is just the backdrop.

Some people didn't even notice the bait-and-switch and just thought it was a really crappy version of the epic they expected. Others noticed it and resented it (and these people are, honestly, harder to fault than the first group) But if you notice it, and then take the episode for what it actually is rather than what you were led to expect, it's a good story.

I didn't even think of that, but yeah, an emotionally devastated Doctor striking out at the universe is so much more interesting than an abstract amalgamation of all of his evil being evil because he's evil…

>not showy-for-the-sake-of-it stories.

Moffat well and truly went budget conservation.

It looked very different in series 3, pic related

No kidding

Hell Bent is a lot closer to what we saw of the outlands in the classic Gallifrey episodes than what 10 described, so if you really want to blame one of those stories for being inconsistent…

But I think has the answer. If we'd gone to the Master's family estate or the hermit's mountain, it would look different from the Doctor's family homestead, in the same way that if you go to David Tennant's house or a Tibetan mountain retreat it looks different from a homestead in the high desert outside of LA.

It looked very different in season 15, pic related

>Davies' version sounded so pretty ;_;

Yeah I get that there would be different environments but in the pic I posted there the citadel is clearly surrounded by mountains, but in Hell Bent, they're sneakily shoved off to the left

THIS SHOW IS A TRAINWRECK

I need dick desu.

>but in the pic I posted there the citadel is clearly surrounded by mountains

Pre Time War. Who knows what happened.

Why is everything so fucking brown?

They actually shot the Masters fathers estate for the finale. That's what that leaked pic with Gomez and Simm was about.

The mountains probably got destroyed during the Time War.

I think they moved the Citadel. What's to say they don't move the city around Gallifrey every few years

Have you missed me /who/?

That could be interesting to see.

If it were a proper Time War, it would be more likely that the Daleks somehow changed history so the mountains were never there in the first place, or the Time Lords changed their own history so the Citadel had now always been in a different location than the one the Daleks knew about, or something like that.

But it's pretty clear the Time War wasn't a proper Time War, so… yeah, probably just got blown up.

reminder that this unrelated art makes a better gallifrey than anything we've ever seen in the show

"Ah yes, let's move our beautiful snow globe city a couple miles left of the beautiful mountains so that when everyone goes outside in the morning they can have a stunning view of ALL THIS DIRT"

Or they accelerated time around the mountains until they eroded away.

>THIS SHOW IS A TRAINWRECK
In Classic Who, if a story references another story, more likely than not it contradicts that story.

(That's especially true for Invasion of Time, given that it was a hastily slapped-together replacement story after Holmes pulled out. But I'll bet Holmes' version would have retconned just as much, since he hated continuity. It just probably would have been a much better story.)

Yeah, that works too. The armies in Anachrophobia were able to do that, and they were just fighting a planetary-scale war and were just on the verge of discovering time travel…

Or simply, this takes place at the very end of the universe, meaning not just after the Time War.

When you're in the middle of a total war, fighting for the very survival of your people, I'm not sure nice views are the top priority anymore.

My sisters, the Doctor has returned to Karn.

You know, there's a part of me that really wanted to have the Doctor ask them what the deal is with the Curse of Pythia and be told of course it was just propaganda by Rassilon to control the Gallifreyans after we left and you idiots fell for it.

I mean, I know that would completely ruin the episode, and it's not an argument fandom is really invested in anymore, and there's something horribly autistic about me for even thinking this way, but it would stop people from making "muh Looms" the centerpiece of every lame canon argument.

I miss Clala.

RTD on set today filming a plogical.

Big news today. Apparently Nilso on set. More news at 3pm (that's in 3 hours gmt for you americans).

PROTIP: If you have to be assured you're right, you're wrong.

Would many of you agree that the Seventh Doctor is the most "powerful" (as well as the least moral)?

Yep.

t. Nilso

what a wanker

She's cancer.

I hate these NuFeminists.

>tfw i will die in your lifetime

Seven blew up Skaro, killed a few gods, all pretty impressive. But War-in-Heaven-era Eight completely fucked up the way history works by destroying Gallifrey.

Seven often ignored the harm he caused by focusing too much on the big picture, but collapsing-multiverses-era Eight did that on an even grander scale.

There's also War, who's… basically a smaller-scale version of Eight in both regards, but being powerful over moral was the whole point of being him. (And I know that sentence doesn't work, but I hope you can figure out what I mean.)

PROTIP: If you think a self-deprecating joke is actually a brag, you're looking way too hard for things to get triggered about.

1. That's not true.
2. I'm sure you wouldn't think twice about this joke obvious self-deprecating joke if it weren't related to le ebin culture war against the essjaydubyoos.

>self-deprecating joke
Do you actually know Sarah Dollard?

Hello samefag. She's not joking.

>tfw i'll live to see the 50th anniversary

>mfw you

>tfw i will live in your lifetime

No. I doubt you know her either.

The difference is, I don't look for people who I don't know to follow on Twitter just so I can find things to get triggered about.

>tfw i'll get this tripcode working in my lifetime

God I hate that bitch. I hope her episode flops and she is never brought back

These were retweeted by girlyletters who I follow for spoilers.

Hey look, after three attempts user has revived old cloister

...

>tfw called out the original 3 hours gmt and then posted it a couple times and now others are doing it

Feels grand, father

Where's nu-Cloister, I wanna have a multi-Cloister special with him

>being this bothered by looms
why