Empire accomplishments >ended the Republic's corrupt system and began it new >destroyed corporate oligarchies and ended the possibility of trade conglomerates taking control of the galactic economy >brought about a massive economic boom in the core worlds >expanded colonization and claimed hundreds of new worlds for the empire >terraformed many uninhabitable planets >brought law and order to the outer rim >restricted black sun and the hutt families >saw leaps in technological progress, especially military >ended alien supremacy in galactic governing processes >gave political representation to peoples that didn't have it before, like trandoshans >expanded hyperspace routes and made the outer rim space inward much safer >piracy became nonexistent in some areas >established a standing defense force which the republic sorely lacked >had corruption problems, but was significantly less corrupt than the republic
Rebel Alliance accomplishments >sent galaxy into total war after 16 years of uninterrupted peace >killed the monarch that the majority lawfully voted into office >restored previous corrupted form of inefficient bureaucracy, the New Republic
New Republic accomplishments >----------------------
We're supposed to root for the Rebels...why?
Oliver Robinson
>killed the monarch that the majority lawfully voted into office
Let's not lie
Oliver Wright
Well they did destroy an entire planet just to send a message.
Andrew Smith
>New Republic accomplishments in all fairness the concept of new republic itself is an accomplishment. planets that wanted to coordinate as a democracy could otherwise theyd have to suck up to imperial rule. also they literally just formed so they havent had a chance to do much
and you can add some of these achievements to empire
>most fashionable military attire >horde kyber crystal store to prevent jedi cult access supplies for their traditional weapons (a vital component of them attempting to reform) >increased overall moral of citizenry by giving them a unified goal to work towards (imperial glory)
Robert Price
I dont think none of those things were in the Movies? Excuse me sir could you please point at which point the movies this information is showcased?
Daniel Stewart
>saw leaps in technological progress, especially military >Implying
Hunter Roberts
The Empire needed a reformer like Pellaeon, not a whacko like Palpatine.
Hudson Gray
It's the truth, smaller ships needed a ring to go into hyperspace in the prequel era, this doesn't happen in the imperial era, also the shields on the AT-AT and the Death Stars
William Green
TIE Fighters have no hyperspace capabilities.
Jose Scott
just the fucking jedi starfighters, you dont know about the other ships.
Why do you assume stuff that was never said or shown in the movies?
Lucas Ward
That's because they're cheap.
Julian Gonzalez
Vader's probably had, he escaped into space at the end of IV
Camden Lewis
>Sheev dies >his successor is a mongoloid like Vader >empire goes to shit in one generation
And that's why hereditary/one ruler governments don't work very well.
Aiden Cook
>why are we supposed to cheer for the rebels? Because the Empire routinely engages in genocide, slavery, and censorship. No cost is too high for them to achieve their goals, as they're willing to hold entire planets hostage. Not to mention that their monarch is actually evil, with literally zero shades of gray.
Life without the Empire isn't perfect, and they did accomplish some good, but this "Empire dindu nuffin" attitude is disingenuous at best. Supporting them is like supporting Big Brother with a tyrant at the head on a level that far surpasses anyone in human history--Mao, Hitler, Stalin, etc. >inb4 they did nothing wrong
Chase Howard
>hitler >killed a bunch of jews and tried to prevent them from taking over the world >bad guy
>stalin >secured the well being of his regime for the well being of his people >bad guy
>mao >took over china and made it great again >bad guy
Leftists like you fucking disgusts me. You need to stop spreading your cuck opinions on the internet, just accept it already, you lost the election.
Parker Cox
Mao and Stalin were leftists.
Isaiah White
they had it coming
Austin Sanchez
>for the well being of his people >took over china and made it great again
Even the Chinese communist think Mao was a massive mistake.
Luis Bell
>their monarch is absolute evil >with no shades of gray
I see someone didn't read any expanded universe.
>planet gives aid harbors weapons harbors supporters and has government officials who lead the rebellion and has powerful defenses and is building up its military and is secretly opposing on the empire on a huge scale >alderaan dindu nuffin
Ian Perry
>leftists cucks think based authoritarian dictator making their country great again was a mistake
Noah Ward
>The villains of the film are actually the good ones!!! >10,000 replies and 7 images omitted. Click here to view.
Ethan Ramirez
2/10
Sebastian Harris
Is keanu going to be alright?
Christopher Torres
The only argument for the Rebellion/New Republic is that they're not the Empire, which is a weakass argument. >we gotta stop the empire they do slavery! >but do you have any plans at all to actually put in place when you take control of the galaxy? >no but the empire does slavery we gotta stop them now! >do you plan on keeping any of the good changes the empire made? >no because they do slavery kill them all now! >so you have absolutely no idea how you're going to do things after the empire's gone >no but the empire does slavery come on rebellion war now! Slavery sucks, but tough titties. Slavery's the big and usually only thing brought up, and again it sucks, but that doesn't mean the Empire didn't do good things, and it sure as shit doesn't mean the Rebellion was a better choice just because muh slavery.
Asher Hall
>leftist cuck thinks an authoritarian dictator that did nothing apart from fuck up a country so other more competent people could fix it later made a country great
Nathaniel Adams
>orderly and legal government with a strong military and lawful rule = villains >disorganized militia serving an elitist royal line with nepotism everywhere = heroes
Hmmmm
HMMMM
Anthony Smith
Bet you also voted Hillary, didn't you little cucky boy? Hows it feel to know nothing about history?
Mao didn't do anything wrong.
Adrian Wood
Even The Emperor would be disgusted by your pretend worship. Sad!
Nathan Butler
Keanu will always be alright, just for us.
Jack Jackson
I'm not a niggermerican you commiecuck.
How's it feel to worship Mao "Let's kill 40 million people because we don't know what the fuck we are doing" Zedong?
Christopher Watson
Trump is aiming for line 1. The reality is line 2.
Cameron Jones
if only they werent made out to be the villians (ie, wearing sinister clothing and dark musics), a lot of what they do wouldnt seem bad at all
Landon Young
>I see someone didn't read any expanded universe. I have. It's also established fact that the Dark Side of the Force is evil and corruptive. Anyone who embraces it is evil, they become evil. A Sith Lord doesn't get to hide behind moral ambiguity.
Also >sympathetic members of the government help aid a rebellion against a government committing human rights violations on a galactic scale, so it's okay to blow up their entire planet That's how stupid you sound.
Elijah Gomez
The empire went and blew a whole planet to kingdom come just to get a bunch of rebels.
Xavier Carter
>HUURRR GUYSSSS THE BAD GUYS ARE GOOD THEY DID NUFFIN WRONG >DUURR THHE GOOD GUYZ ARE ACTUALLY BADDIES >HURRR IT WAS A DREAM >DURRR NONE OF IT IS REAL IT IS JUST THE MAIN CHARACTERS LAST HALLUCINATION BECAUSE HE DIED IN THE FIRST SCENE
fuck off, edgelord.
Chase Bennett
Evil, yes, from a certain point of view.
Owen Jackson
>>we gotta stop the empire they do slavery! >>but do you have any plans at all to actually put in place when you take control of the galaxy? >>no but the empire does slavery we gotta stop them now! >>do you plan on keeping any of the good changes the empire made? >>no because they do slavery kill them all now! >>so you have absolutely no idea how you're going to do things after the empire's gone >>no but the empire does slavery come on rebellion war now!
Literally nothing you said can be implied from the films.
What's shown in the films is the military arm of the rebellion. There were senators etc supporting them. There's nothing to say the higher ups didn't have plans for what would happen after they won.
Levi Jackson
>b-but killing 2 billion people is alright if it means stopping a tiny amount of insignificant rebels
James Ross
...
Nathan Lopez
>Trump is aiming for line 1. >The reality is line 2.
Trump is aiming for line 2. Why are Americans so naive.
Joseph Turner
>bombing an apartment building in Iraq that's harbouring ISIS insurgents is morally justified >blowing up a planet that's harbouring Rebel insurgents is pure evil
Civilians die in war. Fucking deal with it.
Thomas Garcia
>bombing an apartment building in Iraq that's harbouring ISIS insurgents is morally justified It isn't. >blowing up a planet that's harbouring Rebel insurgents is pure evil It is. >Civilians die in war. Fucking deal with it. Should the entirety of America or Europe be bombed out of existence because there are ISIS insurgents here? That seems morally just to you?
Mason Hill
>conveniently forgetting the mass genocide the Empire enacts Slavery is actually low on the scale of their transgressions.
>but do you have any plans at all to actually put in place when you take control of the galaxy? >no but... What are you even on about here? The Rebellion's opinion on different policies aren't really addressed. And I'll admit that we don't really see if they set plans on how to rebuild or what their stances on particular policies are. But here's the thing though, many of the Rebel leaders are politicians, royalty, government officials, etc. It's not unreasonable to presume they have plans and are able to help fill any power vaccuum.
The fact is that the movies are simple. Even in the old EU, we never learn too much about the intricacies of the Rebellion's politics and understandably so, as it might make for a boring story. But when faced with the question, "why should we cheer the rebels?" the answer is also simple. It's because they stand against an Empire that very openly executes millions of innocent people and significantly violates the rights of the rest. That's enough to get an audience invested in a cause.
Oliver Jackson
>blowing up sand that's uninhabited apart from terrorist tunnels >the same as exploding a planet full of life
Jordan Sanders
Civilians are legitimate targets in a total war. Just war theory calls for civilian deaths to be minimized, not eliminated, because such a standard would amount to suicide. You are either suffering from moral insanity or you are evil.
Evan Scott
Seriously, it's just those few instances of torture, galactic conquest, and blowing up one teeny tiny planet. Compared to all those bad things the Rebel "heroes" do it's a wonder how people just accept these roles blindly.
Eli Martinez
At least the made the trains run on time.
Oliver Cruz
And killing 2 billion people too stop a government that isn't supporting your current government isn't minimizing civilian deaths. That's actively using the most destructive and civilian killing method there is. That makes the Empire evil.
Hell it can be argued any government that actively encourages war and destruction over peaceful democracy is morally unjust.
Jason Long
The two aren't even comparable. One is accepted collateral damage and the other is a show of force.
That's not even getting into how the scale of either event aren't even remotely similar or how the Empire has more than enough resources to stage an actual coup/campaign against an insurgancy as opposed to glassing an entire planet. Individual bombings in the ME don't result in the literal genocide of over a billion people.
Matthew Ortiz
torture is just a part of war, every country tortures, and if new land was discovered everyone would fight to say they have ownership of it
Austin Williams
Blowing up Alderaan is literally the equivalent of bombing a hut in the middle east. There are so many planets in the SW universe destroying one doesn't change a thing.
Jonathan Cox
>Blowing up Alderaan is literally the equivalent of bombing a hut in the middle east. No, it is literally the equivalent of blowing up a planet like Earth
Jayden Turner
There is only one planet inhabited by intelligent life that we know of. On the SW universe, there are millions and millions of those.
Juan Smith
>genocide is okay if it's against unimportant targets
Man. I should go on a killing spree one of these days since it's just killing a few people and we have millions of those anyways, I might even kill a pedo or two who knows so it's totally justified.
Carter Taylor
Don't bother replying bait that shit.
Joshua Mitchell
Noone would hate you if you went to Syria and killed the leaders of ISIS. Collateral damage happens, there is nothing you could do to stop that.
Liam Baker
They would if I then killed every other person in Syria.
Cameron Rogers
Sure torture isn't immoral and Genghis Khan and Hitler were heroes, but what about destroying an entire planet full of humans and disgusting frogpeople? Take your time.
Jack Russell
>isn't supporting That's a funny way of saying "supporting guerillas attacking your soldiers."
Juan Collins
Is it? I thought it was quite an ordinary way of saying it.
Levi Perez
Wasn't the queen of those 2 billion people a central figure of the rebellion, the same rebellion those 2 billion people hid on their planet?
Jaxon Williams
>great hero kills ISIS, Assad and ends the syrian refugee crisis all at once Yes, I'm sure everybody would hate you.
Liam Collins
>Hell it can be argued any government that actively encourages war and destruction over peaceful democracy is morally unjust. How convenient for the democrats, isn't it?
Carson Roberts
>Hell it can be argued any government that actively encourages war and destruction over peaceful democracy is morally unjust. Was the mob being "peaceful" and "morally just" when they voted to set a convicted murderer free and crucify Jesus in his place?
Asher Russell
Morality is a question of qualities not quantities. If it's justified for a state to kill one person in self-defense then it's justified for a state to kill 2 billion people in self-defense.
Cooper Myers
Sup Forums tells me that Jesus wasn't a jew, so him going around LARPing as messiah when he didn't fulfill one of the basic requirements to be the messiah would be justification to have him killed.
Eli Long
> the same rebellion those 2 billion people hid on their planet? I doubt a lot of people had much say in it. My country support things I don't like but I wouldn't want to be bombed out of existence for it. Many would. And they would be right to call me evil. I guess? I don't know, I've never read the bible or watched the passion of the Christ. It really isn't.
Dylan Cruz
If you support the enemy then you are the enemy. No sympathy.
Zachary Powell
lol That's the dumbest thing I've read all day, which is a high bar as far as this thread is concerned. 10/10.
Dylan Brooks
So 2 billion people should be killed because the actions of a government? Seems you've been sucking a bit too much on the Muslims hookah user. Sure you are not gonna strap a bomb to your leg and start running over innocent people with a truck?
Sebastian Gray
>a person with the moral sense of a two year old hasn't read the Bible Colour me surprised.
>It really isn't. It really is.
Brody Martin
You're just dealing with edgelords now, don't even bother.
Evan Roberts
>BUT IT WASN'T A DEMOCRACY >PEOPLE DIDN'T GET TO PRETEND THEY HAVE SELF DETERMINATION
Michael Reyes
You don't kill 2 billion people in self defense, not when you have the ability to avoid billions of lives being lost like the Empire does. Also, it was a show of power, not an act of defense.
Benjamin Mitchell
>I didn't read the thread!
Samuel Stewart
Read Thrawn. It's actually pretty good and really gives a good look into the Empire.
Christian Smith
Nice all-or-nothing jihadist attitude.
Jose Richardson
A state has the right to defend itself. Policemen shoot criminals trying to kill them everyday. Soldiers shoot enemies trying to kill them everyday. Civilians get caught in the crossfire. That doesn't make policemen or soldiers evil. People like you need to be rounded up and shipped off to reeducation camps and given basic moral instruction about what it takes to keep a society functioning in reality before you do any more damage to yourselves or society.
Benjamin Fisher
That planet was aiding and abetting a military force that had openly declared total war against the state. It wouldn't have mattered if the population was 20 billion or 200 billion. The state was within its rights to eliminate the threat.
Easton Jones
Even a Jihadist clock is right twice a day.
Asher Gray
Sick false equivalency, bro.
Hunter Sullivan
The lives of 10 people only have any value because they're 10 individuals. Same goes for 10 billion people. A group of people only has moral worth because they're people, not because they're a group. Big numbers might dazzle your eyes but look past them and you'll see that the death of one person is enough of a tragedy. Morality doesn't follow the laws of mathematics. You can't weigh and measure human lives like that. The question of "how many" isn't as important as "why."
Aiden Diaz
>The lives of 10 people only have any value because they're 10 individuals. Same goes for 10 billion people. I didn't know we're telling spooky stories
Joshua Powell
That isn't a false equivalence. It's a metonymy. Don't use terms you don't understand.
Brody Gutierrez
>It's an op says hitler did nothing wrong thread
Wyatt Rivera
Stirner was literally an egoist.
Christopher Scott
uh yeah, the star destroyers in the OT are supposed to be able to kick the shit out of a couple of the clone wars era star destroyers at once. they're so big they cant even land on planet surfaces
Thomas Perry
So was hitler's national socialsim
Juan Fisher
>ctrl-F >no mention of how Sheev was preparing to defend against the Yuuzhan Vong >no mention of how pathetically the New Republic fell apart under the YV invasion