Who was in the wrong here?

Who was in the wrong here?

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the white guy

No niggers in this movie, try again retard

there are no innocent white men in the movie (or society at large)

neither. dubs guy just fucked up and that shit happens

Angier for not working out the trick and having Tesla make a magic machine to compensate.

to be fair even if he'd figured it out, there was absolutely no way he could ever reproduce it

uh he did figure out the trick, and he did copy it without the machine. It was his pride that drove him to create the machine.

Anyone who thought Tesla's Clone machine worked.

Seriously, the entire movie is a series of explicit lies from the journals of the characters explicitly trying to trick each other. Why would you believe anything Angiers said about his trip to America? Because he wrote about it in his journal?

Haven't been able to watch Star Trek the same way since.

>Angier for not working out the trick and having Tesla make a magic machine to compensate.

There never was a machine. It's a joke on the audience.

The whole movie isn't from the journal though unless you can write your own cause of death in a journal

>dubs guy

If there never was a cloning machine then how do you explain all the dead bodies? How do you explain why Bale was locked up if he didn't murder Jackman?

There obviously had to be a dead body, where did it come from if it wasn't cloned?

Lifelike dummies in tanks. Magic tricks are often elaborate. Same as the hates in the field.

So the drowning Bale witnessed was a dummy?

You mean the journal entry you stupidly believed?

>I may just be a simple country doctor, but that there doesn't look like a human corpse to me
Simpler times

I'm pretty sure that nobody would arrest and sentence Bale to death with a "lifelike dummy" as evidence.

It had to be a real, human body. You can't explain that, so stop with your shitty theory that there was no machine.

Wait, you STILL believe that the journals were written by a reliable narrator in spite of all the evidence being slapped across your face repeatedly?

How else did Bale get executed in prison for the murder of Jackman? You aren't explaining this, you aren't even trying.

Holy shit you fucking retard stop, like the first and last 20 minutes of the movie take place outside of journal entire why the fuck are you autistically obsessed with a small part of the movie?

He never went to jail you stupid idiot. Rewatch the movie.

Stop

Yes he fucking did, and he was executed for the murder of Jackman.

nolan. the movie went to shit once tesla dublicated stuff

this. he fabricated the entire story about a secret twin as a scapegoat for his obsession with magic, and ultimately the destruction of his personal life.

It was a ruse to discredit jackman and drivee him crazy. The whole point of the movie is that "a magician never reveals his secrets" e.g the prestige. The journal's are literally nothing but lies

Only sub-140 IQs believe Tesla's machine worked

Proofs?

>Only sub-140 IQs
well yeah I don't have an Iq higher than 140, neither do you or nolan, there is nothing in the movie that hint's to the machine not being real

This level of stupidity is off the charts

The entire movie is the prestige. You're constantly lead to take what you see as fact, but if you really rewatch and pay attention alot of it is taken by faith by the viewer.

The entire premisis of the movie is that magic isn't real. It's all an act.

The first clue to this is when jackman finds out the journal entries he had been following were straight up fabrications. All a lie. Now after taking that into consideration, in what is the "19th/20th century", how likely is it that jackman actually decided to find tesla and how likely is it that tesla actually made a machine that can clone shit?

Jackman had a secret twin. Are we supposed to believe they found the drunk coincidentally?

The only body that Bale saw drowning was the drunk. The bodies in tanks were dummies (they were created for the trick the same way the tanks were created for the movie.)

The movie posits that magic tricks are always disappointing once you explain them. "Once you know the trick it's very simple."

Angiers drowns his drunk double so Borden goes to jail. He creates tanks to trick Borden into thinking he made the ultimate sacrifice, to maybe die for his art. Borden doesn't give a shit. "Do you know where we are right now? Look around." Borden doesn't look. "I don't care."

Nothing that happened outside of the journals was scientifically implausible.

The movie made you believe the impossible with a simple trick. It was a trick on the audience. "You're not really looking. You want to be fooled."

Seriously, when you think about it in real terms, not sci-fi terms, not magic terms, what is more plausible, dummies in tanks, or a magic cloning machine?

notice every scene of Angiers in America people comments on how they heard of The Great Danton? It's an elaborate lie. He tricks the audience, but not Borden, because Borden doesn't care.

how do you explain all the cloned hats though

>if the movie sucks you just have to imagine it be good

This level of stupidity is off the charts

this is a much better and more thorough explanation then i made here

>The movie made you believe the impossible with a simple trick. It was a trick on the audience. "You're not really looking. You want to be fooled."
MIND BLOWN

what do you mean, we see at the end a gorillion huge jackedman clones

...

What he's getting at, again, is that this is told from the point of view of Angier's journal.

Question for the theorists, did both Angier and Borden go to see Tesla's demonstration when it was in town just to see it? Or was this written from a particular journal "point of view"?

What makes you think there were any cloned hats at all? Who's word is there to go by? Jackman, who essentially lived in a hotel, with hardly any other guests ever. Oh and these guys show up, which is somehow apparently obvious that they're there to fuck up tesla's work. But no one does anything about it? Of course not, because if tesla's house hadn't burned down, there would be evidence for jackmans story.

See I would believe this if I hadn't seen the movies more than once. The prestige the movie pulls on you is when you dont notice that the assistant is Bale's brother. I'm not sure if you claimed that bale never had a double but somebody did and theyre stupid because they were twins. I'm not seeing any hard evidence from you except me taking a leap of faith based on assumptions you have about the movie.

I don't watch capeshit

What cloned hats? From the fake journal outside Tesla's mansion?

If there were hats from outside the journal somebody bought a bunch of hats.

You're not really looking.

Here's another explanation:

insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196965

Angiers was a shitty magician who used Root to perform the transporting man without tank for 99 shows. The 100th show he brought on a tank. He was a mediocre magician who wanted to trick Borden into thinking he was willing to sacrifice things for his art.

CLONING AND TRANSPORTATION ISN'T FUCKING REAL. Why would an audience believe in the impossible in a movie about how magicians trick audiences into believing the impossible using simple tricks.

This isn't at all like capeshit

>I'm not seeing any hard evidence from you except me taking a leap of faith based on assumptions you have about the movie.
not only that, but actual roof against it from the direct source material gets refuted with "lmao you didn't actually believe that, did you?"

the writing is garbage, period

The journal is written within a journal. Any part that didn't give either man pause (since they were both writer and audience) would have to be real. Meeting Tesla was real and probably scammed Angiers out of his money and sold him a worthless device.

when do you ever see the twins in the same place at the same time? except for "a flashback" What actual evidence is there they actually took turns living the same life? Do we ever see them living the other life of the promotion manager?

I see Batman, Black Widow and Wolverine in the OP image. What else could it be?

You're so fucking dumb

>The bodies in tanks were dummies (they were created for the trick the same way the tanks were created for the movie.)

How do you explain Jackman going from the stage to the balcony in mere seconds? The trick itself is disappearing and reappearing so far away in such a short time that it would be literally impossible to do.

For what reason would there be a need to have dummies in tanks at all if he could seemingly teleport at will?

Your theory is shit and you're wrong. Stop pushing this bullshit.

Why can't I believe the flashback told by Bale at the end? I have no reason not to. He gains nothing from lying to Michael Cain. Not to mention we see his brother get hanged and that isnt based on any journal entry.

you've been arguing with an obvious troll this whole time, you're the idiot

But Hugh Jackman wasn't cloned. They made dummies for the movie. So we agree people are willing to make dummies to trick people, right?

The same tricks the movie uses on the audience are used by the character- it's dummies in tanks. Angiers is like Nolan.

The more simple and disappointingly obvious the trick the more plausible I think it is.

I've seen it like 7 times. I love it.

Bale's brother reveal is a wonderful twist, but if the movie is a magic trick, the prestige being bale's brother would be like explaining the trick to the audience.

Root is the Prestige.

No, Jamal, you be trippin.

>How do you explain Jackman going from the stage to the balcony in mere seconds?

He's using a bloody double. Root.

>For what reason would there be a need to have dummies in tanks at all if he could seemingly teleport at will?

To make Borden (and the movie audience) think he used Tesla's machine to sacrifice himself for his art every night. Angiers wanted to be the bird that maybe died and maybe came back.

>journal within a journal

bravo, nolan, you've done it again

Because he would never reveal the prestige to his trick, he would never do angier the justice of putting him at peace with that information. Borden lives act. Magic was so important to him he loved it more than his own wife, ultimately destroying there family.

A magician never reveals his secret. He tells Angier he has a twin to fuck with him, "hahah you wasted your time to replicate a trick that you pretty much figured out from the beginning"

This movie is fucking shit. All it is is people dropping exposition and explaining the twist that's going to happen and some Tesla shit for I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE retards.

So Borden's twin was a duplicate from the first Tesla's machine right?

Do yourself a favor and watch the movie. Better than any capeshit before or since

you forgot to mention david bowie ((may he rip in peace)

If I remember correctly, Jackman hated using his double because if he were to speak he would be outted as a double because of his accent.

Does Jackman talk on stage before the trick? Its been a few years since I saw the movie, but I'm pretty sure he did.

The science being completely fictional just like climate change is really satisfying

It's based on an epistololary novel.

It was an accident and Wolverine was stupidly obsessed about it

>He tells Angier he has a twin to fuck with him
then how does he not get executed?
because the hanging takes place outside a journal as does the final confrontation

I'm willing to bet he either learned to live with it to get revenge or taught his double how to do magic.

>movie ends
> it was all a journal entry

You know as much as you probably believe this version this is still just speculation by you. I dont think Bale cared about his trick anymore when he couldnt do it because his brother died. This is way more likely and fits in with story. There would also be no motive for Bale to kill Jackman unless he actually killed his brother. I want to here some hard fact based on story events rather than based on speculation.

So borden had a secret Twin brother that no one knew about ( who was Fallon )

they switched roles multiple times through the movie which ultimately destroyed his marriage

Jackman's character made clones of himself and killed them off

it's not actually his twin. There are two people, Borden and "freddy". Freddy is not around in the beginning of the movie, he doesn't show up till later. When he does show up, he even tells his gf "of i've got a new trick that show them, oh yeah this guy is my manager". Both the idea of the trick and freddy are introduced at the same time.

Because Borden did exactly what Angier did, he found someone who looks exactly like him. The reason freddy gets hung is because Angier knows that Borden has been attending his shows and can't figure out his trick, so ultimately organizes the trick so that borden gets framed for the murder of Angiers double.

Why do you think he chose the premisis of "drowning" the doubles? so that when needed, he could drown his double, and you wouldn't be able to tell because the only way you could was by hearing his voice. Guess what you can't do when someones drowning? Hear there voice properly.

The real borden is the one who gets hung, the jackman that drowns is the double. Why do you think we never see things from the perspective of Freddy the manager? because borden never actually lives a second life, thats retarded. That would be so easily figured out because there two seperate people. It also suggests that borden was doing it the entire time, even before becoming a solo magician

You will never change what I believe.

There's no such thing as cloning.

Borden sees one clone in the movie that drowns. But Root already existed. It's a bloody double.

>I'm willing to bet he either learned to live with it to get revenge

It would literally ruin the illusion, there would be no revenge if the trick didn't work. The drunk, english, double would eventually be outted and everyone in the audience would know how it was done.

>or taught his double how to do magic.

What?

you think it's conviently more likely that a magician, whos so obsessed with "magic" that he would give up when his partner/best trick is no longer viable, and that jackman, who was fucking tricked into going to america in the first place, actually does meet tesla, tesla just decides "yeah sure ill build you a magic machine", and then he goes on to not only clone himself, but in a way that involves teleportation?

MAGIC IS NOT REAL.

This all-caps post only applies to certain posters ITT

So the Telse journal entry is just a ruse to waste money?

He want's to kill jackman because jackman framed and killed borden, the real magician. Freddy is just part of the trick, he's not the mastermind.

It's obvious from the interactions between his daughter and borden when he's in jail. You can't for a second actually believe he lived 2 lives, and his wife nor daughter actuall noticed? The wives story is told in a way which is kind of believeable, but no chance you could fool your own daughter.

It's more likely that bordens obsession with magic ruined his relationship with his wife, and drove her to suicide when she realized that she isn't what he really loved.

there's a scene where he shoots his clone.

told by who? Who witnessed it??

I just rewatched the part with Jackmans final trick, he asks to the crowd, clearly in his own accent, for volunteers to check the machine, to which Bale volunteers and gains access to the backstage area.

It wasn't Root, it was Angiers on stage.

Fuck you. Just watch the fucking movie and stop doing mental gymnastics.

it wasn't told by anyone, it was jackman's memory shown as he was dying.

>stop doing mental gymnastics
>believes CLONING and TELEPORTATION is a conceit of the film

>more likely
>isnt it more believable

Agin, I need proof or this is speculation nothing more. Take your fan theories somewhere else. Nolans writing isnt that intricate.

You just have to think about it, that's the whole point of figuring out a magic trick. You have to look past the misdirection to find the secret of the prestige.

That being said, theres 2 realities; reality 1, Borden is living double lives the entire movie with his twin brother freddy, the only one who knows is his michael cain. (how long he knows, who knows?) This also implies that they bother to live double lives even before they come up with the idea for the "transporter man", or the introduction of Bordens "manager". Jackman, after being duped by Borden, uses his journal, which is later revealed to be entirely fabricated, to follow this fabricated story which ended up being true. Finds tesla, convinces him to create him a machine that would allow him to teleport, thus giving him the opportunity to perform the transporter man, but allowing him to basque in the glory of the audiences applause. EVEN THOUGH, it's out write said by borden in his journal, "oh yeah and btw this was all a ruse to get you to travel all the way to fucking america in search of a magic scientist capable of magic machines"

Sup Forums is full of stupid people.

Also, I hate Hiro.

Or reality 2; They both used the exact same trick, in the exact same ways. They were so good magicians though, and so obsessed with one another, it blinded them from truly being able to see the key to the prestige.

Now this makes more sense because; 1) it;s established the journal entries are lies; 2) why would you marry someone if your sharing a life between 2 people, and that one person doesn't even love her. 3) The lie that lead to Angier going to america, ended up being true and actually gave him a magic cloning teleporting machine, but evil men drove tesla away and burnt down his house so theres no evidence left. 4) When the wife says "its ike you dont love me! stop lieing!", when in reality it's because of 2 things, hes having a fucking affair and he's obsessed with his fucking job. NOT because he lives two lives.

What is willful suspension of disbelief?

This

Do you know why Bale knew the trick with the old man and the fishbowl? It is because he knew about living the trick. That is why it is believable for them to be identical twins living the same life. This movie is pretty simple but takes a second viewing to get a better understanding. Again, I see no proof and more speculation based on assumptions.

Tesla's machine worked

Jackman cloned and killed himself dozens of times

Bale lived double lives with his twin brother for most of their lives

Deal with it you slack-jawed faggots

see thats the point of the movie, it's misdirection. it's an act shown to fool the viewer into believing in magic.

Tesla's machine worked.

are Nolan flicks so bad that you have to play mental gymnastics to this extent?

Your point about his wife would be believable if not for the fact that she says I don't believe you today when he says I love you. You will cherry pick shit to fit your narrative. Fuck off again

Angier went a little overboard to be honest

The machine worked