Did the Exodus actually happen? Were the Hebrews ever even enslaved by the Egyptians?

Did the Exodus actually happen? Were the Hebrews ever even enslaved by the Egyptians?

Why does so much of Jewish history/mythology centre around them being oppressed?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaqub-Har
simchajtv.com/statue-of-biblical-joseph-found-story-covered-up/
youtube.com/watch?v=3dEh25pduQ8&index=2&list=PLH0Szn1yYNec-HZjVHooeb4BSDSeHhEoh
youtube.com/watch?v=8ferLIsvlmI&index=3&list=PLH0Szn1yYNec-HZjVHooeb4BSDSeHhEoh
youtube.com/watch?v=G_OlRWGLdnw&index=5&list=PLH0Szn1yYNec-HZjVHooeb4BSDSeHhEoh
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_Cycle
chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9927/jewish/Chapter-26.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism)
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

...

Do you know the game "Chinese Whispers"?

That's how science worked 2000 years ago and the result is a lot of bullshit.

Bump

A group of Semites actually controlled Lower Egypt for a few hundred years. They were eventually BTFO by the remaining native dynasty that had a rump state in Upper Egypt and sent packing into Canaan. Somehow, it is a "fringe theory" that these (look up Hyksos) were the pre-Israelites. Ancient writers such as Josephus thought it was the case.

Anyways, history is what you make it, and this history was surely was written by the Israelites. Everyone knows (we are ancient Israelites now) that we came from Egypt, but how? If you are trying to build a separate culture (and a stalwart one at that), you need something to rally behind. Getting your ass kicked out of fertile Egypt and having to settle with fucking shitty Canaan is not a good story, so they came up with a better one that gives you pride.

Consider that significant portion of Hebrew culture was a rejection of Egyptian culture. Ever wonder why Jews are commanded not to "shave the corners of their heads"? Egyptian women, children and men shaved their heads and wore wigs that kept their heads cool. For Hebrews, to shave your head was to resemble an Egyptian. Obviously some people naturally go bald, which is fine, but you just cant shave the rest off (the corners or sides).

If you start to look at things like culture, archaeology, and contemporary histories, you get a clearer picture than just by reading the OT.

The Bible "stories" -- the Creation, the Patriarchs, Slavery in Egypt, Conquest of Canaan, the tales of the Divided Monarchy and the later Prophets like Esther-- all those romantic narratives were written in Alexandria after the Greek conquest.

Egypt ruled the Levant, but Jews were never slaves en masse in Egypt. That the Hyksos have some relationship to Jews is itself an ancient WE WUZ KANGZ Jewish fantasy from a Hellenized Jew with an Egyptian history book, just like Joseph ruling Egypt was a WE WUZ KANGZ Jewish fantasy written by a Jew with a book of old Egyptian stories. These stories were aimed at the Greeks who then ruled Egypt and were meant to make the Jews look important and powerful to the Greeks who ruled them.

>Why does so much of Jewish history/mythology centre around them being oppressed?

Because the Persians who created Judaism by bringing Zoroastriansim to a bunch of nobody Canaanite pagans told them they had been enslaved and oppressed and that they were there to save them, exactly like Western interventionists (propelled by Jews) cover their expansionist and imperialist motives with universalist moralizing.

A tiny nation such as they had, amongst major empires, is surely to be oppressed and oft enslaved. It has always been about existing, when everything points to your culture being extinguished imminently.

I really enjoy these fedora fantasies. They get wilder every year.

No.

No.

Pity sex.

I'm not sure about the Hyksos being a WE WUZ KANGZ story, and I don't think definitive evidence is available. Semites most certainly controlled Egypt, then were BTFO, then you see the rise of Canaanite culture.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaqub-Har

This man, a Pharaoh, was named Jacob. Keep in mind when all of this is happening, Yahweh worship has not even started, Israelite culture does not yet exist and monotheism is hundreds of years away from existing.

No. And actually the opposite happened. The Hyksos (the kikes in ancient Egypt) took over by worming their way to the top via corruption and passed policies that pissed off the native Egyptians until they were kicked out (sound familiar?). Then the kikes wrote war propaganda called Exodus to reverse the roles.

Do you remember when cigarette companies did loyalty programs? If you can't, what you did was collected enough cards from the packs and sent off for things like backpacks and caps and stuff. Jews basically do that same thing, but they swap a never ending stream of pity points for whatever they want, such as countries and the ability to never be criticised. It just goes in a big vicious circle though

>Jews cry about being oppressed
>People feel sorry for them and start giving them special privileges
>Once they have enough special privileges they turn it on the people who gave them those special privileges
>Now they start doing as they please
>Eventually people get sick and Jews get BTFO
>See step 1
>Rinse and repeat

They're sort of like the common cold, there's no real cure except death so you have to put up with it for a while until it's dormant. It's strange because it's just like a Marvel universe, Jews are these "super intelligent" villains with delusions of grandeur, but all villains/heroes have a weakness, the Jewish weakness is that they simply can't fight so instead they use manipulation. Whites can fight, but their weakness is empathy, etc etc.

tl;dr Jews oppress themselves by trying to be the oppressor.

>It has always been about existing

The Jewish fixation on continuing to exist and not disappear has its start with the so-called Returners and their relationship to the natives, matched to how the Persians characterized their former rulers. Ezra-Nehemiah tells the story.

Lots of peoples have been conquered multiple times yet didn't end up with a millennia-spanning obsession with their own genocide.

No it probably didn't happen.
I heard of a theory that maybe some egyptian priests fled from Egypt and then spread the new religion of "Judaism" to the Canaanites(btw Hebrews were pretty much Canaanites before they were Hebrews).

Jewish mythology and history has a few neat trends to it, one of them is being oppressed and then praying to god and he saves them, the other is that they stop praying to god and he fucks with them.

And what's quite possible is that the Jew sitting on his ass in the Library of Alexandria surrounded by Egyptian history books at about 300BC writing the story of Jacob knew of this history.

Reversing the order of your questions for the sake of clarity.
>Why does so much of Jewish history/mythology centre around them being oppressed?
Because the largest chunk of Hebrew literature we have from that era comes out of the minds of the Southern Kingdom of Judah and her descendants. This is because the Northern Kingdom of Israel got BTFO by Sargon's Assyrians, who subsequently laid waste to the entire region and exiled everyone of importance across the entire Assyrian Empire. Shortly (a century and change) thereafter, Judah (having adopted the name 'Israel' after the Northern Kingdom was no more), got their ass handed to them by Babylon, and were also exile. Unlike their northern neighbors however, Judah's prisoners were brought into the capital, and were able to retain some cultural aspect of who they were.

Israel's history is flush with the great regional powers (Egypt, Assyria, Babylonia, Persia, Greeks, Romans, etc.) fighting for dominance of the Levant, and they just happened to be in the middle of it. As an ethnic community which survived in such conditions, their understanding of the world grows out of always being 'less than', and most of their influential writings would have begun to be solidified after they were brought back into the land by the Persians, and subsequently entered into what's referred to as the Second Temple Period.

>Did the Exodus actually happen? Were the Hebrews ever even enslaved by the Egyptians?
Verbatim, don't count on it. In general, probably not. The story, if it existed prior to the return from Babylon, would have been built up by the newly installed priestly class in a way which validated their ruling of Israel, as has occurred at other places in the Bible (most glaringly, the first and second accounts of Creation).

so your god was real

tell me
what do you think about god killing children in egypt?

The OT was finished around 500 BC I think, and I don't think their archaeology was good enough to know about minor Pharaohs from a millennia prior. Jacob is a common semitic name, and it is highly unlikely that the patriarch and the Pharaoh are the same person. Anyway, it was Joseph who was vizier (basically with the power of a Pharaoh.) Nobody really care about the truth. The idea of an unbiased history recording facts was a Greek idea and other cultures just recorded what they thought would make their state stronger.

>The story, if it existed prior to the return from Babylon, would have been built up by the newly installed priestly class in a way which validated their ruling of Israel

I agree 100% with that, and would also argue that there was no such thing we would recognize as Judaism before this. They were just Canaanite pagans, like everyone else in the region-- and not particularly interesting ones when compared with the ones in Ugarit for example who actually had some fairly big cultural accomplishments.

Moreover there is no guarantee whatsoever that the "Returners" had returned from anywhere. The Persians practiced the transportation of the elites from one place in their conquered territories to another, just like the Babylonians had. It was a widespread practice. The priestly class that came to rule over Israel may simply have been elites from some other part of the Persian Empire pressed to do the business of the Zoroastrian Persians.

"chinese whispers" in france is called "arabic telephone"
>mfw

You live in the middle east. Makes sense tbqh

Bump for educational thread

>I agree 100% with that, and would also argue that there was no such thing we would recognize as Judaism before this.
It's a stretch to even call what this was Judaism, because Judaism, as we understand it is not only the codified Tanakh, but also the Midrash, which was only an oral tradition until the second century CE, allowing for regional flavors and variations.

>They were just Canaanite pagans, like everyone else in the region-- and not particularly interesting ones when compared with the ones in Ugarit for example who actually had some fairly big cultural accomplishments.
Paganism is hard to pin down in agrarian societies, mostly because any king can come in and install his own deity at his ascent to the throne. This YHWHism was primarily focused in the cities however, and the hinterlands did as they pleased; this is expressed throughout both books of Kings in the constant references to "high places" being torn down by the more virtuous (according to the writers) Judean rulers.

>Moreover there is no guarantee whatsoever that the "Returners" had returned from anywhere.
While it's not rock-solid proof, the books of Kings do have some parallels with historical occurrences within the region; in this instance I'm thinking specifically of references to King Omri and King Jehu made by the Assyrians. At the very least, the priests were well aware of the encounters that the Northern and Southern kingdoms had with regional powers. Additionally, the returners were also very aware of the history of the Southern kingdom, as evidenced by the unquestioned hatred towards the Samaritans in the north, and the absolute brutal attitude they take on towards the North throughout the entire Tanakh. So I would be more inclined to believe that the returning peoples, while they may have had some Persian mixed in either by bodies or blood, were still a remnant of Judah.

>The priestly class that came to rule over Israel may simply have been elites from some other part of the Persian Empire
Who knows? You could be right, given that monotheism was a Zoroastrian idea. Wiki says "Cyrus the Great liberated the Jews from the Babylonian captivity to resettle and rebuild Jerusalem, earning him an honored place in Judaism", but that could be propaganda that made its way into history. I am still tempted to think that the "returners" were the descendants of the captives who had been PERSIANED.com

>The idea of an unbiased history recording facts was a Greek idea

Maybe the main thing that makes Judaism and its derivatives so poisonous is that it treats religion as History as the modern-minded Indo-European Greeks understood it. Judaism does this because it didn't exist until this Greek understanding did, and the Hellenized world exposed Semites to it.

The Patriarchs are "historical"; the Jewish peoples' development is "historical"; Jesus and Mohammed and all they did is "historical"; they live in History-- not just in some mythical past, which was where all pagan religions safely put its fables.

This.

Another possibility is that the returners as you call them mixed together with other cultures that spoke the same language, and they got the hatred for the samaritans from them.

>which was only an oral tradition

This is not a historical certainty, either. One could argue that it arose in response to Hellenization by more "fundamentalist" Jews separated from the Temple which had become to close to the Greeks for their taste, which may be the origins of the Pharisees and other dissident Jewish factions of that period. Or one might argue that an "oral tradition" is itself another product of Greek influence, by way of things like Jewish exposure and imitative response to things like Socratic Dialogues or Greek collections of supposed sayings of famous men.

>This YHWHism was primarily focused in the cities

I don't know much about that but would think the opposite is right. El would have been the more urbane deity-- as he was in Ugarit for a thousand years, while Yahweh was the one for yokels in the south. Some would argue that the "high places"-- the Canaanite pagan places of worship-- were being torn down by the newly-minted "Jews" then under the influence of Zoroastrianism which portrayed the old native religion as devil-worship.

>the books of Kings do have some parallels with historical occurrences within the region

Omri indeed looks to be a real King of Israel. He is oldest historical King of a place called Israel that someone like me will recognize. The Israel he ruled had virtually nothing to do with what is in the Bible, and had no Jews in it, because they didn't exist and wouldn't for another 500 years, give or take.

I love how it's always and exclusively Americans who have clearly had serious Judeo-Christian education

Was the Israelite faith not monotheistic before the exile?

I'm not 100% clear on it myself, but obviously something went amiss with the Samaritans and the implementation of the new religious features of the Zoroastrianism imposed on the natives of the region. They even had their own Temple separate from the one in Jerusalem for a bit.

The books of Ezra-Nehemiah describe this interaction between the "Returners" and the natives. It's not clear that the "Returners" can even speak the language of the natives. The rules Jews follow about keeping separate and being a 'nation of priests' and protecting themselves from miscegenation with the people they live among have their origins in these instructions to the "Returners" to keep apart from mixing with the natives they ruled. Like everywhere else this sort of caste system was tried, it breaks down and doesn't last.

Are you blaming the irrationality of the modern man on Abrahamic religions? W-wait you might be onto something here.

They're over-represented in this thread for obvious reasons; but if anything it's an indictment of how far educational standards have fallen generally in the Western world. Our grandparents and their ancestors would've learned about all this stuff in school, but since Christian-related things are becomingly increasingly haram, our own and the next generations know nothing about it. Whether you like the kikes or not, their mythos and historical events that came about as a result of it it have played a huge part in forming the basis of our civilization.

...

King David would have acknowledged and the existence, and even worshipped, other gods than Yahweh. There was an entire pantheon of gods to worship, with Yahweh being the "personal god" of Israel. After the return from Babylon, history was whitewashed so that kings who had worshipped other gods were BTFO and those who acknowledged only one were saved. If this interests you, I highly recommend "The Bible Unearthed", which takes an objective view on the Bronze through Iron age Levant using archaeology, linguistic anthropology, etc.

Not in my opinion. Most mainstream scholars would accept that Judaism didn't exist in a form we would easily recognize until the so-called Return from Exile, and that the Jews in Exile underwent Zoroastrian and other influence there, and then brought it back to Israel, and basically started the Judaism we know. I guess some would differ on what they thought actually went on religiously in Israel before that, to what degree the Bibles account is generally an accurate description of what those people believed.

I would argue that there was no "Jew" until the Persians brought Zoroastrianism when they conquered the region and forced it on the locals, and it didn't fully resemble the Judaism we know until the Greek and Roman periods.

You got it.

There is no archeological proof for that - and there are many extraoridnary - impossible events in the bible.

You could deduce the others might just be fiction.

Since computer software analyzed books 1 -11 and then 12 - 50 in Genesis, they concluded that the same author wrote them.

So why Moses under divine inspiration included the story of Ark ??? Which is obviously fiction, myth. And the story of taking snake - and justified death to mankind because of the apple.

My opinion is just that he invented the stories to insert the laws in them and give people a reason to trust them like: ( marry a woman ) - because God made woman and man.
Do not kill and bla bla - because God Almighty spoke with me on a mountain.

You were right and coherent until:
>Because the Persians who created Judaism by bringing Zoroastriansim to a bunch of nobody Canaanite pagans told them they had been enslaved and oppressed and that they were there to save them, exactly like Western interventionists (propelled by Jews) cover their expansionist and imperialist motives with universalist moralizing.

You're confusing so much, I've studied on the subject as once I was naive and believed that.

Post-Babylon captivity yes indeed they got some elements from Zoroastrianism but prior to that there is no influence - hell they are even so fucking different.

>nuke europe

This better be b8

It's strange that chapters 11 - 50 in Genesis could be actually real.

simchajtv.com/statue-of-biblical-joseph-found-story-covered-up/

This guy found in Egypt got the treatment of a pharanom without being one and ressembles pretty much an Israelite - the tomb was also empty just like we should've expected based on bible narrative ( could as well be looters )

That's not necessarily Jacob but just as well is very likely that he was Jacob.

Then this tomb is dated for around 1700 - 200 years before 1500 when some archeological ruins suggest that there was a Jewish camp in Egypt.

So apparently 11 - 50 could be backed up by archeology - which is the story of patriarchs and ends up with a prophecy about Messiah.

But the rest chapters 1 - 11 + the rest of books don't have much actually any archeological back up at all and could be fiction ( including exodus itself )

It may be error of thought, but I feel like it has had a major major influence on Western civ. Would the West be as powerful and "safe" today if Christianity had not turned a tribalistic continent into one of nations?

No, them being enslaved by the Egyptians was the first lie of many to come to justify their existence as a people.

The Torah was NOT written after the Israelites/Judeans were exiled by the Syrians/Babylonians.

The story of Noah is taken from the story of Utnapishtim from the Mesopotamian Epic of Gilgamesh. The story of the first man and first woman living in a paradise garden and the snake and the apple tree is from Sumeria. The story of Joseph and his brothers has its origins in an ancient Egyptian story. There are others I don't know about myself and others we don't have the sources for anymore.

In the past people would argue that the Jews simply were so ancient and had been so widespread in the region themselves that they were influenced by these ancient stories (stories that are much more ancient than even the Jews claimed to be).

What's more likely is that some Jew in the Great Library at Alexandria, where the Greeks collected all they could from across the Empire, just took them off the shelves and borrowed from them when it came time to write his peoples' "History".

It would be finalized about 200 years after the return from Babylonian captivity. In this time monotheism took over and everything was changed to fit that narrative. This is driven home many times because we know archaeologically that many of the great advancements (growth/security of the state) happened during heavily pagan times, yet they are attributed to kings like David, who basically ruled a few farming villages

Indeed new texts found in 2014 suggest it was written at least around or before 8th century BC.

But pretty much every modern book say that already so you're not knowing that only if you never bothered to read new shit or base your information from very old sources.

>The story of Joseph and his brothers has its origins in an ancient Egyptian story.

Proof, give me findings about a such story existing.

In 11 - 50 they talk about God as being El - the Canaanite divinity - only after Moses escapes with jews from Egypt God reveals Himself as YHWH.

So It could as well just be Jewish - Semite in origin, many elements link it to such origin.

If you do the research you'll see what I mean about 11 - 50 chapters in Genesis actually potentially being oral tradition from jews.

What's more likely is that some Jew in the Great Library at Alexandria...

8th BC is waayy before library of Alexandria.

I would argue that the Roman Empire-- or at least what remained of it, even after Christianized-- did that.

Very little in the bible actually happened

They caused the fall of Atlantis and they were not meant to be there.

Immigrants from the great war of Kantek/Maldek

Then, they destroyed Egypt with the rebellion of the priest osarseph/moses who stole the ark of the covenant. He used its power (he was trained) to cause the plagues and made a evil pact with a negative trans galactic entity who wants to destroy humanity.

It is truly hard to imagine just how tribalistic the times before Christianity were. The 10 commandments would have been understood as "Thou shalt not kill another Israelite", etc. Ever wonder how they can get those commandments and go right into conquering Canaan? The real revolution of Jesus theology is globalism. Jesus understood that the tribal age must end, and created a theology that would extent Yahwehism to the entire world, and they would be together as one tribe, all servants of the same god. In a world where you have never imagined this as a possibility, it is a very very powerful message and one that clearly had a major impact on history.

This is why Jews (Israeli's mostly) remain so tribal even today and strongly reject globalism and the influence of other cultures while the rest of the civilized world (thankfully) considers all men equal and saved if they accept Jesus.

Btw guys check these summaries out:
youtube.com/watch?v=3dEh25pduQ8&index=2&list=PLH0Szn1yYNec-HZjVHooeb4BSDSeHhEoh
youtube.com/watch?v=8ferLIsvlmI&index=3&list=PLH0Szn1yYNec-HZjVHooeb4BSDSeHhEoh
youtube.com/watch?v=G_OlRWGLdnw&index=5&list=PLH0Szn1yYNec-HZjVHooeb4BSDSeHhEoh

Considering that Torah is fiction - and the covenants are also the product of imagination - then what Jesus done was just...

It could potentially just also invalided Christianity.

What would be some approved literature to learn more?

This is where I diverge with a lot of the race-blind cuckoldry of the modern Church. On the scale of tribalism vs universalism there are many degrees; it's not a clear dichotomy, but more of a gradient. In the space of two millennia we've gone from absolute tribalism to absolute universalism, and as a result, Europeans are set to become a minority in their own lands by the end of the century (inb4 you tell me it doesn't matter because you're going to Heaven).

Spiritual equality, in the afterlife? Sure...but earthly egalitarianism is both ignorant of human nature and innate differences among and between different groups.

>8th BC is waayy before library of Alexandria.

That is true by definition.

In 11 - 50 they talk about God as being El - the Canaanite divinity - only after Moses escapes with jews from Egypt God reveals Himself as YHWH.

For over a hundred years scholars have understood that there are multiple authors of the Tanakh, even within single books. They are a patchwork. This is known as the Documentary Hypothesis

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

and, while people argue about how many authors there were exactly or when exactly they lived, the general assertion is assumed and not questioned by anyone serious. One of these authors favors Yahweh and one favors El (Called the Yahwist and the Elohist). Generally speaking, El is seen as the favored god of the North, and Yahweh of the South. But it isn't consistent nor certain, and others tinkered with all of them after they were written, probably as late as 300AD.

El was indeed the older god, and he was worshiped by Semites in the Levant for thousands and thousands of years-- a thousand years before anyone named a Jew ever even claimed to exist. Yah/Yaw/Yam was one of his sub-deities who came to prominence among some groups, in the same sort of relationship that Chronos or the Titans had with Zeus. In the Tanakh you've got El speaking things into existence in a Neoplatonic fashion, which is clearly influenced by Greeks, and you've got Yahweh as a pillar of fire, a bronze serpent, a burning bush, an invisible force, and as an anthropomorphic Zeus-like figure walking around causing trouble and having a BBQ lunch with Patriarchs. The stores are a mess and a tangle. What is clear, however, is that the stories-- the "Bible Stories"-- the Patriarchs (and their interaction with Yahweh), David, the Conquest of Canaan, the Histories are all written after Greek influence.

The bearded faggot was actually a military leader that ambushed the egyptian army in a swamp.

Given the way stories are retold, instead of the egyptians being hindered by the waters of the swamp, a fucking river was open with a stick and then fell upon them (all BS ofc).

That the Jews were universalists is the opposite of the Truth, although pretending to be universalists is how Christianity got started and was able to infect Roman forms of worship and overwhelm and destroy them.

The European pagans-- and pagans generally, even the Semitic ones-- were inherently universal with respect to religious beliefs. They could see that their gods resembled their neighbors gods and they had no beef with understanding them as just some other people expressing the same ideas and values. It was Judaism (and Zoroastrianism started the practice of regarding other peoples' gods as Devils) that started this shitty practice of portraying everyone else's forms of worship as evil.

It never happened. It's a fiction. Talk about "Reed Sea" and "Red Sea" or Egyptian records of slave expulsions is all wankery. It never happened.

The Conquest of Canaan is a Jewish bullshit imitation of Alexanders' real conquest of Canaan.

Yea but Documentary hypothesis is old - and pretty much doesn't hold - up, It's interesting to study it because you see how people thought about something without having much archeology to back it.

What's the purpose of your repetition tho?

>Why does so much of Jewish history/mythology centre around them being oppressed?
Even God has to constantly oppress them lel.
That tells you all you need to know about Jews.

>That the Jews were universalists is the opposite of the Truth
>The Jews
>One dude and his faggy following of 12 manlets
Read my post again, goyim.

Jews are globalists because Judaism was born out of the ancient-world's form of it: the Persian Empire and the Greek Empire. Jewish plans for world dominance is a repetition of this impulse and the peculiar relationship of the Returners who were told to rule yet be separate and be 'priests' and collect the loot at the Temple. Their moral-religious front as they do this comes from the Persian one that was a front for their voracious Empire, and this is ultimately why Iran is the end-boss for the Jews. They want to destroy their true origins once and for all, and transume their own beginnings as subjects of world Empire while becoming the King of Kings (the title of the Persian Shah) and Lord it over the whole world themselves.

>deep stuff, I know, /pol

We are having two discussions at once. Seperate, if you can, your MUH JEWISH GLOBALISM for second. We are talking 2 thousand years ago. That the Jews defend globalism in the modern age is yet another way to defend their own tribe. A Christian world is the perfect environment for the State of Israel to exist in. The man literally sacrificed his name and honor in the eyes of his own people and in doing to created the world that would eventually fulfill messianic principles (return of the jews to israel, etc).

Yeah ancient Israel was polytheist.

There's also a text from Lord Hadad worshipers about a water controlling god called Yaw who wanted to defeat the other gods and usurp the king of heaven. But its disputed whether its related, but it seems suspicious.

Got it.

But personally that's not my view of the origins of Christianity. It's sort of a different subject, but my take is that Jesus-- whether he began as a real rebel against the Roman occupation or just a folk fiction-- was no universalist. He was the opposite. It was diaspora Jews who pretended their hero who wanted their God to liquidate the goyim (whom they called kittim-- "from across the sea", meaning the Med) was something other than a Jewish zealot who hated the goyim and wanted them dead. These bullshitting Hellenized Jews gave us the pacifist, universalist, render-unto-Caesar, Socrates-like wandering nice rabbi Yeshua, and their BS plus Platonism would eventually turn a Jewish anti-Roman zealot into an ethereal, transcendent creator and savior of the universe.

It's exactly what Jews do today. They use media spin and lies to make nice guys and pacifists and heroes out of not-so-nice folks-- if it serves their ethnic interests. The ancient world "mainstream media" was located in Alexandria, Egypt, and it was ground zero for Jewish propganda in the ancient world, and those propagandists birthed the Christianity we know, with the help of ancient goy cucks.

I'd be pretty anti-roman as well if a legionary raped my mom and left me to be raised by a cuck.

This.

Polytheism is nearly always metaphors and explanations of current scientific and philosophical theories. Hence more than one god, fluid in nature.

Where Monothiesm is nearly always an expression of political authoritarianism and dogma, one god that is always right and anyone who disagrees is an infadel, a criminal that needs to be purged.

This is also why pagan mythologies often come up with answers that are closer to the truth about nature.

Is this legit what Israel is wanting to do? Iran is the end-boss on stage 12 where the same tactic as the previous stages involves shlomo'ing America into doing their bidding?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_Cycle

Ugarit was bigger and more accomplished Semitic kingdom than Israel ever was and existed for thousands of years. Their main god was El, and his sub-deities were Ba'al and Yaw/Yah. More than suspicious, desu senpai.

Globalism is Jewish imperialism that conforms to the peculiar nature of the Jews as a nation-within-a-nation mercantile people propelled by a peculiar religiosity that serves as a stalking horse for ethnic supremacy. Israel as the capitol of the world is a part of that vision.

I agree that Christianity is good for Israel. Christianity was from its inception Politically Correct Christian Zionism for Romans.

All scripture is true
Exodus really happened as it says

Exodus would really be a bad book if the goal was to build sympathy, it's a catalogue of the hebrews failing and disobeying over and over

>This is not a historical certainty either.
It's generally accepted that the Temple was destroyed before the Jews began recording the oral Midrash; one could argue that they did so BECAUSE the Temple was destroyed in an attempt to preserve some of the homiletics that emerged from readings of the Tanakh. This of course has its own issues, but yes, it was likely influenced by outside sources, just like any exegetical work that's done in the modern era.

>El would have been the more urbane deity... while Yahweh was the one for yokels in the south.
Maybe once upon a time, but well before the Exilic Period, the two had become largely inseparable for the Northern and Southern kingdoms. Case in point, in the Mesha Stele (9th century BCE), the raiding of Jehova's "vessels" is referenced by the Moabite King Mesha after a successful capture on the Israelite (Northern Kingdom) city of Nebo. This suggests a leaning towards YHWHism as a national religion in the North, and likely the South as well.

Of course, as we've already established, what YHWHism looks like is probably completely different from Second Temple Judaism, but Yahweh/El was the regional deity. And yes, it's also very likely that the references to the high places in the books of Kings are a reflection of religious attitudes to the post-Exilic period in Persian Israel, but the possibility of the occasional tearing down shrines to minor gods prior to the Exile is still on the table; it's just something that happened in the ancient world.

>Omri...the Israel he ruled had virtually nothing to do with what is in the Bible, and had no Jews in it
No argument here, but it did have Israelites who worshiped Yahweh. The idea of Jews can't begin to exist until at least after the "first" Temple is "destroyed" in Jerusalem and they're sent into exile in Babylonia, because the Jewish people have no centralized place of worship. I'd personally argue that it can't begin to exist until after 70A.D.

perfectly ok, are you judging God?

It's interesting that the old rabbis viewed Christianity as a Jew raped by the West. I would argue that that was basically a metaphor.

As usual, the Jews are playing the victim and speaking the opposite of the truth.

Jews are propelled by these religious fantasies and a desire to repeat them over and over. One could argue that to repeat them is itself the goal. My guess is that they will make America into another Egypt, another Babylon, another Rome, another Russia, another Germany.

They'll ruin us and loot us, and Americans will turn "anti-Semitic", and they will howl about dinduing nuffin as they load up on spoils and migrate to their next victim, which will probably be China.

>he misses the entire point yet believes it
I kekked

Yeah.

He also killed Moses' nephews while having a tantrum about incense.

If they were slaves, how did they ALL have lambs to sacrifice on the eve of the 10th plague? If they were slaves, where the fuck did they get all of the gold to smelt into a calf while Moses recieved the commandments?

As depicted in the bible, no the Exodus did not happen. There may have been a much smaller population of semitic people who more gradually migrated out of the area but not as per the book of Exodus.

>The west was tribal before Christianity built it up

Quite the opposite user, it broke down into tribal nations after the introduction of Christianity

It's all out of Zoroaster and his peculiar psychology, that the Persians brought to the Levant and created our problems with "religion".

Are there any books on the relationship/similarities between Zoroastrianism and Judaism?

Kek. Did you really just say "tribal nations"? Let me remind you that France was 500 Gallic tribes killing each other and Germany was 500 Germanic tribes killing each other.

France had the privilege to be Christianized before the fall of the Western Empire and thus was easily united into a single state that BTFO all non-Christianized places like Germany. Think how LONG it took for Germany to be united... We are talking Bismarck.

Now that I read what I wrote I am realizing that it was Romanization that led to nations forming, not necessarily Christianity, which I think helped in that it made all men "brothers" n shieeet.

Can any jew bro or someone that knows biblical hebrew help me out?

chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9927/jewish/Chapter-26.htm

verse 30 I will demolish your edifices and cut down your sun idols; I will make your corpses [fall] upon the corpses of your idols, and My Spirit will reject you.

>My Spirit

I want to know what's the brew word that was used for that, going to check its proper meaning - because in English spirit means totally different from what it actually meant in original text.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism)

>It's generally accepted that the Temple was destroyed before the Jews began recording the oral Midrash; one could argue that they did so BECAUSE the Temple was destroyed in an attempt to preserve some of the homiletics that emerged from readings of the Tanakh. This of course has its own issues, but yes, it was likely influenced by outside sources, just like any exegetical work that's done in the modern era.


I sort of re-iterating here, but I am skeptical that Judaism was much more than your standard Temple cult before the Greeks arrived-- an unusually syncretistic one with peculiar origins. I'm surely no expert, but my instincts would place any notions of a Jewish "oral tradition" into the Greek period-- whether it was another imitation of Greek intellectual practice with Jews pretending it was something that had always been, or among Jewish dissidents unhappy with the Greek influence upon the Temple. Why couldn't Pharisees have been doing this "recording" before 70?

>I'd personally argue that it can't begin to exist until after 70A.D.

I understand your point.

God is wrathful and merciful, haven't you studied the religion you're criticizing?

Do you know a lot about Zoroastrianism?
I need info

Go on Wikipedia - this year they've updated 99% of articles about pretty much everything - I had interest in.

See the latest books cited and check into them - usually when the book is cited - it gives a link to google books and open on the exact chapter.

Zoroastrianism is pretty lame tho - but it's the main cause of which Judaism started to degenerate from it's initially pretty interesting theology.

Angels became from active objects in universe - such as the Sun, named beings from a spiritual realm...

Ok found it

doesn't have to do with Holy Spirit
nephesh
נַפְשִׁ֖י