Keynesian here. I can debunk any argument any non-Keynesian throws at me. I sometimes call myself Canes just for fun because I love Keynes so much. Anyone care to debate a Keynesian? I love debunking those who believe in the gold standard.
1. Trump is a Keynesian. If you've read Trumps book he is VERY keynesian. In fact he's a military keynesianist. He strongly supports the idea of printing money and is pro-stimulas.
2. Gold standard works for a time when you have low GDP. From 1776 - 1900 the gold standard was great. It worked fine as hell. But once production increases if the money supply stays the same you will have deflation on your hands which will cause a recession. Of course you can't stimulate the economy because no more money can be printed
3. Keynesian economics works! It worked with Hitler, it worked with Eisenhower, it worked with FDR, it worked with all these other shitholes. The only reason it didn't work with Obongo is he had all the newly printed FED money to go Goldberg Sachs. If Obongo wasn't being sellout nigger he could have fixed the economy.
>b-but my ww2 ended the depression not the new deal Even if you believe that it's still the same Keynesian argument. Government investment spurred demand which ended the depression.
I don't know much about economics. But I do know that we should destroy the international financial Jew.
Evan Nguyen
I bought Keyne's seminal work (general theory or whatever its called), will it help me understand the markets and therefore investing or not
Nicholas Murphy
Prove it
Matthew Richardson
The international financial jew are the international banks! If we have keynesianism which causes inflation it will deminish their power and loosen debts. If we have deflation every year their debts will get stronger.
Those blue eyes and dark-ish skin together show she's Alpine and the flag shows she's Austrian
Hayek was a good man except became a laughing stock.
Charles Fisher
How did Keynesian economics work with Hitler? His economy was shit and you know it. Price fixing L M A O
top bait, made me reply
Isaiah Lopez
explain how deflation causes a recession when the value of the currencyis increased? Fiat money is not the answer.
Bentley Johnson
>his economy was shit Ok this is bad trolling, even for a third world nation and you know it.
Nolan Hernandez
Does increasing the minimum wage help grow the economy?
Ian Bell
Homosexual gingers are the last Stand in implicit white identity
Nathan James
Because when the value of the currency is going up people will hang onto it more. They will say "hey why spend now when I can spend tomorrow" that goes on and on and businesses have to fire people.
Michael Sullivan
Austrians are jewish puppets
If you aren't Keynesian/natsoc/MMT you're nothing
Jason Evans
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Juan Rogers
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Nolan Gomez
No and heres why. Wages will naturally increase when the money supply is increased via public works it will cause a labour shortage due to 100% employment. In order for the private sector to get these people to leave the public sector and work for them they will have to offer a better wage. So they will have to raise their wage. No need to force them to by laws.
what?
Angel Price
What about the argument that stimulus spending ultimately means stimulus towards things that are in low demand, thus creating GDP figures that reflect output not in terms of what has given value?
Brody Garcia
kek
John Parker
How does demand create supply?
Nicholas Bell
THIS!
THIS
THIS
Kevin Fisher
...
Joseph Cox
>lol wut iz time preference?
Colton Brown
How do you solve the time-inconsistency problem of Keynesian politics?
Samuel Long
When there is demand for something, there will always be a supply. There will always be one person exploiting the situation and making money because he sees opportunities
Jacob Reed
Because once people start buying more from a store the store owner will call up the manufactures and demand more goods. They will realize they can make more money by producing more and employ more people which creates more goods.
In a deflationary world the store would call up the manufactures and say "no more, we can't sell what we have", they would then say "well we have a surplus of goods the store doesn't work, we clearly create more than we can sell, must fire some workers".
Connor Green
I actually don't know what that is.
Luis Carter
Gtfo you monetarist scum. People like you are the reason we are still living in a casino capitalism, where the rich keep getting richer and the middle class join the ranks of the poor.
Isaac Wood
>breaking windows actually helps the economy
the people who have to get replacements will have to forego some actual investment to deal with your bullshit
Jaxon Martinez
Instead of simply bailing out companies, why doesn't the government demand shares of those companies in return? This would seem like a sound strategy to nationalize (parts of ) the economy while remaining politically ambivalent (you can get rid of the shares).
Kevin Lewis
>But once production increases if the money supply stays the same you will have deflation on your hands which will cause a recession.
Would be truly sad for the common people to see price of assets reach a level they can buy in. Think of all those dividend rich and high interest rest bond retired baby boommer. Their world would crumble.
Colton Ross
keynesianism obviously works, anyone arguing against it is arguing against all available evidence and history. anti-keynesian economics are all memes.
Gabriel Bailey
How much stimulus is too much?
Why did the fed do QE 3 when the initial plan was just QE 1? Did QE 1 not work?
Owen Cruz
Creating goods and services will always be useful.
Nothing is more worthless than having millions of men unemployed not engaging in work.
that is what causes a deflationary spiral in enacted collectively.
When everyone saves at the same time you get the Great Depression. The solution is for the government to act anti cyclically by cutting taxes and increasing spending.
Jaxon Long
Fucking top kek, I hope you are simply baiting. Learn to Macroeconomics. Probably a freshman who thinks he's got it all
Juan Jones
You're fucking stupid you SCUM! Keynesianism PREVENTS the rich from getting control of too much of the % of GDP you fool!
It does in a free market because free markets are so inefficient. In a Keynesian world you can cause the same multiplier effect via public works.
Sebastian Perez
>saving my pics and posting them in a completely unrelated thread
wew lad
Bentley Thomas
Keynesianism is a load of shit.
When Keynes couldn't explain something he defaulted on blaming it on "animal spirits". So much for "science".
Benjamin Williams
The FED did not stimulate anything in the real economy
all the trillions of dollars went into wall street asset prices (stocks) which is why we are still breaking record highs in the NASSDAQ and the DOW
Anti Keynesian politics is what makes housing expensive
Blake Thomas
That my man is a great idea. The reason is because Obama is a sellout. An even better idea would be to give the PEOPLE money who can in turn buy from those corporations. Or have the FED loan them money and when they repay the debt it goes back to the treasury
>Would be truly sad for the common people to see price of assets reach a level they can buy in Yeah sure buddy, sure. People being able to buy something is totally a bad thing
Zachary Torres
The only good thing about Keynes was that he want a filthy marxist.
Lucas Richardson
>So much for "science". >economics
wew lad
Jonathan Young
No surprise Canadians don't like Hayek. Here's a fun hour from the LSE.
Because all they did was print money and buy bonds from already ultra-rich banks. Banks which hoarded the money instead of spending it. If they gave the money to the common man who actually spends it would have helped the economy.
You can spend it on useful things that no one will pay for like roads and hospitals
Ethan Hughes
Inflation fucks over people who save Especially at current interest you get no return on savings China is currently hoarding gold and will soon introduce a gold-backed currency, nonexangable for USD As we get crushed by inflation, it may help with out debt but inflation will skyrocket once USD is replaced by Chinas new currency
Thomas Jones
was sarcastic, I should have been more obvious.
Nolan Roberts
And what happens in the aftermath when the economy is booming? A cut in spendings in order to pay denbts? There is no incentive for that. It's a nice idea, but eventually it ends in bastard Keynesianism
Jack Wilson
Learn to be a better troll
No he blamed animal spirits on people making retarded investments
Smarter than Hayek
>Science >Science WEW lad
LOL you mean the CLOWN channel that makes RAP VIDEOS to prove WRONG PAUL theories right? TOPPEST OF KEKS
An economic system based on greed and the search for profit is doomed to self destruct at some point. Regulations are made to be dodged. In the end all monetarist policies benefit the big banks. The middle class and the poor are just as fucked as they were before any "stimulus" was applied.
Carson Hughes
Also this New money created has been pumped into the stock market It's inflated as all fuck We're about to be in another 2008 or worse
Parker Johnson
Except he was right
everyone
Austrian theory is that you have to wait because the "structure of production" is "broken"
Demand will magically increase after a certain amount of years because capital needs to shift to "productive" enterprise
In reality the problem is lack of demand in the first place, and ignoring consumers lack of money and high private debt just stagnates the economy.
Nothing is going to be fixed without the government acting counter cyclically
t. former Austrian
someday the Austrians will be converted
It works the same as driving a car
when you want to go fast you press down on the accelerator when you want the economy to do well you cut taxes and increase government spending
when you want to slow down you take your foot off the accelerator when you want the economy to slow down you raise taxes and cut government spending
It's that simple.
Camden Miller
>not the new deal
But the new deal make the depression bigger and longer than it would have been if FDR had not suppressed the recovery.
Thomas Brown
Ron Paul was one of the few people that predicted the '08 crash. So, how is he wrong?
Colton Ross
One problem with Keynesian economics is that it implies that people act rationally. The majority of people are dumb and make stupid investments and don't think on a large scale causing the system to not work
Brody Ortiz
>everyone
I meant to say that everyone saving at the same time is bad for the economy, but people "do it anyway" just like everyone going into private debt is bad for the economy.
Brandon Gomez
>nber.org/papers/w16351.pdf Heres why. Obongo did increase the money supply however he did it the wrong way. He increased the money supply by giving money to the rich who don't spent most their money. He should have given it to the poor who would instantly start spending their money.
Saving is bad for the economy. Imagine if the average household saved rather than spent? Businesses would go bankrupt, causing layoffs. Those people would then be unemployed and unable to save
What was your point?
>And what happens in the aftermath when the economy is booming? Yeah because spending during a booming economy creates inflation which people don't want.
>A cut in spendings in order to pay denbts Thats why you print the money during recessions not borrow it.
>There is no incentive for that. It's a nice idea, but eventually it ends in bastard Keynesianism But the argument MUH INFLATION actually works when economies are already in booms.
Lucas Thompson
>Wanting to defend Keynesianism and claiming to be able to debunk every argument >Not knowing time-inconsistency >Calling other people a troll
>Creating goods and services will always be useful. >Nothing is more worthless than having millions of men unemployed not engaging in work. What a ridiculous statement. Why not just build bridges to nowhere? It's an extreme example but illustrates the point quite well. Time is something we'd all like more of. Taxing society so that a few people get to work will mean that the time and goods enjoyed across society as a whole will only decrease
Thomas Cook
Because QE is buying from people who are ALREADY super rich. The FED should spur demand by funneling the money to the poor. QE is just buying securities from rich assholes with newly printed money.
That's not what I am for friend. That's cronyism mixed with Keynesianism
That's not true friend. FDRs policy helped the common man
John Wilson
Spend your money goy, dont think about how economy works. After all you are all dead in the long run.
Nathaniel Richardson
Does QE + low rates make it easier to increase the amount of unpayable debt?
Does QE + low rates discourage saving?
Do low savings make it harder for businesses to get loans in order to invest and increase productivity without stimulus?
Does having stimulus make the economy dependent on said stimulus?
Does this create a stimulus spiral?
Lucas Cox
the time-inconsistency theory is nonsense
downturns are not caused by "missallocated capital" they are caused by credit bubbles
There's a reason that panics used to be associated with runs on the bank.
Brody Turner
Why has keynesianism failed japan the last 20 years?
How are you going to solve negative interest on a growing number of bonds?
When are you going to admit that it is no longer possible to raise the interest rate?
Adrian Taylor
>t former Austrian Thanks for explaining that. I knew it was nonsense when it came from an Austrian
That's not true at all! New Deal HELPED the economy
Isaiah Powell
No he wasn't. Economics is a ridiculous claim to being a science. It has to rely on psychology to understand economic behaviour, because obviously rational paradigms failed completely.
When the US govt intervened in 2008 to save private financial institutions with public money, that's when keynesianism was ass-blasted. Private debts have been nationalised and serviced using public money. Yay, keynesianism at its best.
Keep paying taxes, minions, the rich CEOs and bank employees need to get some new yachts and islands. The stimulus was made for them to start gambling again on stocks.
Adrian Gray
>Why not just build bridges to nowhere?
That would imply that there are no bridges to build in useful places
the US has enormous infrastructure problems as it is thanks to the idea that it is "wasteful"
Cooper Thompson
Economic stimulus, aka QE, through the devaluation of currency channels money towards the richest since saving money is tougher, and where do people put their money when saving has such shitty return? Correct, bonds and houses. Exactly where the elites want your money to go.
Claiming deflation causes crisis is not an argument. There's absolutely no evidence about this, Spain for example is in deflation and growing at 3.5% as a recent example, higher than most EU countries. You're gonna have to do better than that my IMF friend.
Ayden Price
The thing I really dislike about Keynesian economics is that the answer to everything is always a few seemingly random sentences containing words such as stimulation, economy and printing money. Every time a Keynesian answers a question it raises 10 new ones, because the response has no head and no tail. I've also noticed Keynesianism always works best in hindsight since the reason if an economic move works or not depends on some extremely gimmicky concept such as "Barack Obama had eggs for breakfast which caused some short term inflation which ruined the gold standard and banks raised interest rates because of this if we had anticipated this we should have invested in crops to stimulated jobs." I'm obviously joking with the previous sentence but the reality honestly isn't much different.
Charles Gonzalez
>Implying this will ever happen in a boom phase
I know how it's supposed to work, but in reality it doesn't
Connor Clark
>Because QE is buying from people who are ALREADY super rich. The FED should spur demand by funneling the money to the poor. QE is just buying securities from rich assholes with newly printed money.
That's delusional and would lead into an inflation as well. Also the poors don't buy ciggies and alc from other poors.
No no no friend. That's the Hayek theory. Keynes believes people function off the animal spirit
No protectionism works
>Why not just build bridges to nowhere? You could actually, however you could have the same stimulas effect doing something actually USEFUL. It's a win win, economic stimulas + you get some work done.
Noah Sanchez
>this kills the Keynesian
Connor Cox
The person who wrote than needs to learn. Rome crashed 450 years after that. LONGER THAN AMERICA WAS A COUNTRY LOL! So if what he's saying is right we got another 500 years!
Adrian Rogers
Funneling money to the poor raises prices and gives incentive to purchase products from abroad. Congratulations, the poor are now buying Toyotas and Hyundais.
Demand side policies without consideration for the country's production is the best way to make other countries happy.
Keynessianism only works if the rest of the world becomes an autarchy.
Daniel Morales
What do you mean by this? Both concepts match perfectly
Grayson Young
>Saving is bad for the economy. Imagine if the average household saved rather than spent? Businesses would go bankrupt, causing layoffs. Those people would then be unemployed and unable to save This is also complete nonsense. Why does it matter how much someone decides to save if they're going to spend it eventually? The total income being saved by society could equal the amount of savings being spent, the time between a person acquiring their money and spending it is irrelevant and the opportunity to save would arguably incentivise them to work harder, knowing it will pay off later.
Cameron Cruz
I now hate the word Keynesian from reading it in such extreme quantity. It's become meaningless. Was this your plan?
Ian Clark
>Does QE + low rates make it easier to increase the amount of unpayable debt? No
>Does QE + low rates discourage saving? Yes
>Do low savings make it harder for businesses to get loans in order to invest and increase productivity without stimulus? No because you have the FED to print money and loan it out
>Does having stimulus make the economy dependent on said stimulus? If it's based on one type of production like a war economy then yes because once you cut funding the military manufacturers will go out of business. However if it's in the form of nationwide tax cuts to the poor and middle class then no.
Cameron Stewart
>No protectionism works Here - 30 seconds in MS paint just for you.
Gavin Wood
>Hi I'm a jew and here's why I should have control over the money
Gabriel Green
>Why has keynesianism failed japan the last 20 years? It didn't
>How are you going to solve negative interest on a growing number of bonds? Don't need to. It's fine as it is
>When are you going to admit that it is no longer possible to raise the interest rate? It's not true
Juan Reyes
is there a limit to how much we can borrow?
does interest grow linearly or exponentially?
what right do you have to steal value from every money holder by printing new money?
what use is fractional reserve banking to every day people? is it fraud?
why should a private entity have the exclusive right to loan money into existence and then charge 6% interest on it?
David Adams
It's a soft science so it will never have the purity of math of physics
>Private debts have been nationalized
That's the opposite of Keynesianism
>The stimulus was made for them
Exactly the stimulus doesn't go to the real economy so it's not Keynesian at all.
but it's what works
40 years of globalism and neoliberalism has gotten us a stagnant global economy with low wages and high debt
you are confusing Keynesianism with the broken window fallacy
they aren't related Keynes never advocated destroying anything
Friedman on the other hand advocated destroying money constantly with shredders
Cooper Ross
Because that worked between 2008 and is working... right
Ryan Gomez
That's Austrian theory
under Austrian theory private jewish banks control the money supply
Cooper Miller
Because that worked between 2008 and now... right..
Landon Thomas
She isn't an autistic mustached Jewess.
Nathaniel Howard
Is there a limit to how much you can print? Why not give everyone 1 000 000 $ so they can spend?
Gabriel Phillips
>When the US govt intervened in 2008 to save private financial institutions with public money, that's when keynesianism was ass-blasted. Private debts have been nationalised and serviced using public money. Yay, keynesianism at its best. Yeah sure that's totally "best" for the economy. Dumbfuck
>Economic stimulus, aka QE Different things
>through the devaluation of currency channels money towards the richest since saving money is tougher, and where do people put their money when saving has such shitty return? Correct, bonds and houses. Exactly where the elites want your money to go. That's why stimulas should be in the form of tax cuts to the poor
>Claiming deflation causes crisis is not an argument. There's absolutely no evidence about this, Spain for example is in deflation and growing at 3.5% as a recent example, higher than most EU countries. You're gonna have to do better than that my IMF friend. My friend Spain is in the shitter. Unemployment is high.
Mason White
Do experiments and computer simulations back up your theories?
Easton Brown
rubbish, the Austrian school rejects the money monopoly as such
